who "picked off" Eli in the end zone, but he was really only the 3rd guy in on that tackle. Richburg and Jerry both got a piece of Keenan first but he just got away from them, or almost got away from them, when Beatty arrived to lower the boom.
I've been one of his harshest critics and the last two games he's been good to very good. And I for one am fucking over joyed that he's playing good because I want the Giants to win.
The moronic notion that most would rather be right than have one of our players play well is just that. So sit at home at feel all morally superior if it helps. I for one don't give a shit about being continually being wrong. These last two weeks and especially Thurssay night were well worth me being wrong that Beatty would continue to suck.
He may revert but I sure as shit hope not.
I assure you it has nothing to do with moral superiority. I know none of you in real life, and wouldn't really judge anyone except for the select few that go out of their way to be horrible people on here.
That said, if you go off of the posting activity of certain posters, negativity and rubbing it in your face go hand in hand. I don't do call outs, but plenty exist on here.
If ESPN told you that Joe Blow, a light hitting shortstop, was leading the majors in batting average at the quarter mark would you would feel the need to loudy proclaim that joe blow isn't the best hitter in baseball? No, of course not because everyone would understand the context of joe blow being off to a great start doesn't mean he's now the best.
Now PFF stats and the more straight-forward batting average aren't a great comparison but the point remains the same.
RE: RE: We have users here proclaming that the season is over in march
I think Beatty's play is a combination of 1) his being healthy and 2) the Guard play next to him is much better. If hypothetically speaking you have four lousy lineman and 1 good one, the 1 good one likely would still look lousy. He is depending on the gaurd to do things and be in places, and if he's not then all hell breaks lose. Its sort of like blaming an Int on Eli when the WR runs a bad route.
RE: RE: We have users here proclaming that the season is over in march
...does anyone thinks this type of a ranking matters to a professional athlete? I suppose Beatty's agent might use something like this during a contract negotiation, but I think this is more of a fan-driven ranking system...
If Beatty stays healthy, he will perform well.
Actually Fiddy you are dead wrong in that statement.
Well, that's not going to happen, but it doesn't mean he can't have a nice, long career.
For those who judge everything by dollars (not pointing at you), go to the link I provided of Tackle costs and check out Tyron Smith's yearly cost starting in 2015, then compare it to Will Beatty's. Smith better be, and stay, WAY better than Beatty.
was very good in 2012. He was also very bad in 2013 before he got hurt in the last game against Washington. He has played well this year. So has the entire OL. Let's hope that continues. Kudos to William for putting in the work and effort to recover from a broken leg, and improve his performance over last year. Better continued performance from Beatty will ameliorate criticism that Reese neglected the OL. And that comes from someone like me who still thinks that Reese should have drafted Cordy Glenn instead of David Wilson.
It's pretty funny how most were CRUSHING him on the site
He showed great potential in 2012 to be very legit. He played through injury last year with a horrendous supporting cast. But a lot of people were calling for Reese's head for not getting a left tackle. I'm glad he is doing well, here's to that being consistently the case and the injury bug stays away.
If he had the skills to be as good as Tyron Smith he would have been picked in the top 10.
He does not need to be great, nor the best. He just needs to keep doing what he is doing. Right now, that is playing very well in both run and pass blocking.
His draft year at the combine he was a top 5 performer in each athletic test, or all but one maybe. He's extremely agile and fleet for a guy his size, he has great feet.
The question about him was always mental, not about his physical skills set.
Is also a result of Beatty having a LG next to him who can actually play and not be a turn-style. The play of Richburg along with Walton has been huge. In fact with what we know now, I would take Richburg at LG over Martin.
Hey... It's too soon and too small a sample to say the guy is great...
But I said it here and I told everyone I knew that he was done... Garbage. Toast. Got paid and checked out. Broken leg with no shot at playing at a serviceable level again. Had Charles Brown locked in at LT. I am eating a healthy serving of crow right now... And I hope it's a dish I continue to gorge on for a few years.
Kudos to you Will Beatty, for working your way back from a terrible injury and holding down the left side so far. Keep it up!
For all the wailing and moaning on here about how much he's costing the Giants, his actual numbers are hardsly out of line. In fact, given his performance in 2012 and now this year, are a relative bargain. I fail to see where he got an extraordinary amount of money considering other Tackle costs. Tackle costs for 2014 - ( New Window )
Yep. People are moaning and complaining like he's being paid as a top 3 tackle when he isn't close.
That doesn't matter when it shows a Giant in positive light.
If this was negative , the very same people patting themselves on the back for their patience with Beatty would be raising this point as well as more generally questioning the the validity of PFFs work.
We had massive amounts under the salary cap committed to him, and there was a real risk that he would ultimately have to be replaced by a new, very high draft choice or cap allocation on a veteran.
The rebound to this level (whatever the level is) was never a given.
Singling out Beatty wasn't dumb? How about saying he was done, washed up, finished, etc etc etc. This site is so full of fools and blowhards it's ridiculous.
RE: Hey... It's too soon and too small a sample to say the guy is great...
But I said it here and I told everyone I knew that he was done... Had Charles Brown locked in at LT. ...Keep it up!
Charles Brown is the guy who surprised me. I knew he had a bad season in N.O. but I figured the guy would have been good enough to at least be a solid swing tackle pickup if not be a no-brainer starter if Beatty injury didn't heal properly.
One of my own speculations on what caused Beatty's bad season
is that he was under a lot of pressure. The Giants had just paid him millions to be their left tackle for years into the future.
I think that Beatty is more of a quiet and introverted sort than most NFL players. He makes his first mistake, whiffing completely on a guy who then plants Eli, and immediately he is shaken up and very worried that about repeating that error. When he screws up again, he starts becoming completely unhinged.
You can't play that position without confidence. You have to shake off the mistake like a beaten corner. As the season went on and Eli's problems continued and more and more fingers were pointed at Beatty, he more and more played the position with fear instead of confidence.
(A lot of the above comes from my own experience playing left field in Little League.)
March threads, they had better go back just two weeks and make sure that they weren't the ones making comments like "Will Beatty is a piece of shit - performance wise," and "Beatty is a horror show" and many more.
There's a lot of over-reaction in both directions. We beat two bottom half teams and now everyone's excited. Well, the Lions might turn out to be pretty good this year.
But they have Atlanta next, and they will be favored, which is bad news, then its at Philly, at Dallas, Colts and at Seattle (ugh). I'd be happy with two of three. That would keep them close enough to have a shot if they put it together in the second half of the season.
That locker room interview with Beatty is pretty interesting.
For much of the Q&A, he seems to be fighting the urge to tell the reporters: "I was never as bad as you think I was, but there's no point explaining it to you because you don't know what you're looking at anyway. So I'll just call last year an anomaly and see if you dolts even know what that means."
I've always liked Beatty. He may be a detached mercenary, or a lisping smart-ass, or the hugely-gifted, ungrateful antithesis of Coughlin's ideal, military, everything-for-God -and-the-team over-achiever. I still like him. And when he's keeping Eli clean and blocking his ass off in the running game, I like him a lot. Beatty in the locker room. - ( New Window )
Reese's, in Beatty's case, I don't recall two extreme views
unlike with other players. There are those who believe, as I did, that we just don't know YET how he'll perform, but the Giants' actions or inactions pretty much spoke for themselves, imo and they no FAR MORE than we do about him. None of us iirc, ever said or implied he was an elite OLT, just good enough, if healthy, to do a good enough job keeping Eli off his back..
For all the wailing and moaning on here about how much he's costing the Giants, his actual numbers are hardsly out of line. In fact, given his performance in 2012 and now this year, are a relative bargain. I fail to see where he got an extraordinary amount of money considering other Tackle costs. Tackle costs for 2014 - ( New Window )
Yep. People are moaning and complaining like he's being paid as a top 3 tackle when he isn't close.
This is the most annoying thing. People cite his salary without knowing the salaries around the league at the position. He's not killing the cap whatsoever.
The way this thread has devolved is one of the things
that annoys me about internet message boards. I have never staked out a strong opinion on Beatty because it never made sense to discuss, after the contract he signed last season he was always coming back. Anyway, the point is that if you are going to have a message board and you have a player perform the way Beatty performed last year, it is not wrong to criticize him or surprise that people did. That does not mean they are against the Giants or are rooting against him. I would hope that the same people who criticized him would now be cautiously optimistic that he will return to 2012 form. You are not locked into one position for life. It is certainly permissible to be a fierce critic of Beatty last season and now be very pleased with his play; in fact, that is what I would expect of most Giant fans.
RE: The way this thread has devolved is one of the things
that annoys me about internet message boards. I have never staked out a strong opinion on Beatty because it never made sense to discuss, after the contract he signed last season he was always coming back. Anyway, the point is that if you are going to have a message board and you have a player perform the way Beatty performed last year, it is not wrong to criticize him or surprise that people did. That does not mean they are against the Giants or are rooting against him. I would hope that the same people who criticized him would now be cautiously optimistic that he will return to 2012 form. You are not locked into one position for life. It is certainly permissible to be a fierce critic of Beatty last season and now be very pleased with his play; in fact, that is what I would expect of most Giant fans.
Not how I interpret things. It was always, "fine, have your opinion, but can we at least wait and see if, when healthy, Beatty's last year was an aberration or reality, BEFORE we say for sure, he's crap?"
if you are out there you can play. I really never was in the pitchfork gang against Beatty so I really should not be wasting my time defending them, but injured or not, you really should not be the worst tackle in the game if you are playing.
that would be valid IF the entirety of said message board was logical, not always cynical, and didn't derail threads at a very high rate.
Completely fine to talk about Beatty's woes from last year but you and I both know there are certain people that bask in misery on this site. That's what I was originally responding to.
But it can severely hamper your ability to perform, no?
The entire O-Line is playing well. just as i was harsh on these guys when they weren't playing well, I respect them now. it starts up top with the leadership from mcadoo and flaherty and down to the veteran C - J.D. Walton who reportedly has big responsibility in the scheme, setting protections.
The line's improved quickly and I think Walton's hard-nosed style and no BullShit approach is paying off. he's not a pro bowler but he's been a stabilizing force imo.keep chopping wood
It was a 16 game season and he struggled from start to finish, so that's an awfully long anomaly.
Maybe it has more to do with the unrest on the entire O-line last year that caused Beatty to struggle the most, and the awful down/distances that he was asked to hold up against...i don't know.
But with that said, it would be nice to get another Tackle in the door before next season starts...
Great site for player comp! Thanks! Certainly settles the "he was paid too much" argument. As someone who dumped on Beatty last year and going into the draft, I now think I was mistaken. TC and Reese seem now to have been right to bank on Beatty returning to form. Who's playing next to you and how well they are doing their own jobs matters much more than many here acknowledged. Pugh's performance last year seems all the more amazing given the importance of this.
that would be valid IF the entirety of said message board was logical, not always cynical, and didn't derail threads at a very high rate.
Completely fine to talk about Beatty's woes from last year but you and I both know there are certain people that bask in misery on this site. That's what I was originally responding to.
Obviously there are trolls on every site, but I guess my point was the Beatty critics went beyond the normal trolls and into mainstream and somewhat legitimate criticism. But, no doubt, there are regular dopes who just say stuff to get a rise out of people. I agree with that
MNF pregame last night, but Beatty was on for a long form interview with Kim Jones and Carl Banks. They asked insightful questions and he gave good, thoughtful answers not just about himself but the line in general and what it's like playing with Eli and a whole new OL roster.
I don't think many people really know much about him. I certainly didn't. You hear things like he may not be committed to football, but that is not the person I heard speak about the game last night. I can't explain what happened to him last year, but he does not come off as a guy who's just mailing it in, or coasting on physical ability, or having a low football IQ.
RE: Regarding Beatty, I don't know if anyone was listening to WFAN's
MNF pregame last night, but Beatty was on for a long form interview with Kim Jones and Carl Banks. They asked insightful questions and he gave good, thoughtful answers not just about himself but the line in general and what it's like playing with Eli and a whole new OL roster.
I don't think many people really know much about him. I certainly didn't. You hear things like he may not be committed to football, but that is not the person I heard speak about the game last night. I can't explain what happened to him last year, but he does not come off as a guy who's just mailing it in, or coasting on physical ability, or having a low football IQ.
I heard it. Great interview, intelligent guy. I agree, he sounds to me like a very dedicated, hard worker. I was in the camp that he was a "show me" player this year. Well, consider me shown at this point.
Anyone have a link to the Beatty interview with Banks and Jones?
I think the coaching staff - Flaherty in particular - always thought Beatty had the ability to be a top 5 OLT in this league. Sometime before the 2012 season Flaherty said that Beatty was "too covrrned about what any opposing DE would do against him, and hadn't figured out that he should be thinking about how he would dominate his opponent. Reese said at the time of his re-siging that the dollars he was given were based on the player they thought he would become, that the FO saw him as a player who was still improving. So indeed, 2013 was a disappointment and not what the FO expected. Maybe finally now we're seeing the level of play from him that the coaches envisioned from him all along.
He was utterly dominant in the pre-season, and at times he was dominant in games and then would just flat out disappear. It's not a physical thing at all, Beatty has the goods.
RE: Reese's, in Beatty's case, I don't recall two extreme views
unlike with other players. There are those who believe, as I did, that we just don't know YET how he'll perform, but the Giants' actions or inactions pretty much spoke for themselves, imo and they no FAR MORE than we do about him. None of us iirc, ever said or implied he was an elite OLT, just good enough, if healthy, to do a good enough job keeping Eli off his back..
The other factions are as you describe
What did I say? I thought that I gave Beatty a legitimate excuse for having an off year: after signing the big contract and being anointed the Giants' left tackle for the rest of the teens he was now being watched by all. Pressure to a sensitive person (Maybe Beatty's not as sensitive as I thought.) can be just absolutely paralyzing.
You know, I've started making those kinds of typing errors also. My brain, as always, is telling my fingers what to type, in this case the word "know." But my fingers bang out "no" instead. Dementia, here I come.
I remember wanting his ass gone along with the entire line.
I've been one of his harshest critics and the last two games he's been good to very good. And I for one am fucking over joyed that he's playing good because I want the Giants to win.
The moronic notion that most would rather be right than have one of our players play well is just that. So sit at home at feel all morally superior if it helps. I for one don't give a shit about being continually being wrong. These last two weeks and especially Thurssay night were well worth me being wrong that Beatty would continue to suck.
He may revert but I sure as shit hope not.
I assure you it has nothing to do with moral superiority. I know none of you in real life, and wouldn't really judge anyone except for the select few that go out of their way to be horrible people on here.
That said, if you go off of the posting activity of certain posters, negativity and rubbing it in your face go hand in hand. I don't do call outs, but plenty exist on here.
Now PFF stats and the more straight-forward batting average aren't a great comparison but the point remains the same.
Quote:
you just gotta learn to ignore the idiocy. If you believed BBI for everything you'd think the Giants are the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Nobody was right about the offensive line or the TEs.
I'd love to re-visit "the" season is over thread from April or whenever that was.
Yep, that thread will definitely be entertaining to re-read...
Quote:
you just gotta learn to ignore the idiocy. If you believed BBI for everything you'd think the Giants are the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Nobody was right about the offensive line or the TEs.
I'd love to re-visit "the" season is over thread from April or whenever that was.
I've got it bookmarked.
Well, that's not going to happen, but it doesn't mean he can't have a nice, long career.
He just needs to be good most of the time, nothing more
If Beatty stays healthy, he will perform well.
"Most of the time" doesn't cut it for an OLT.
Quote:
I haven't seen it yet though
Well, that's not going to happen, but it doesn't mean he can't have a nice, long career.
For those who judge everything by dollars (not pointing at you), go to the link I provided of Tackle costs and check out Tyron Smith's yearly cost starting in 2015, then compare it to Will Beatty's. Smith better be, and stay, WAY better than Beatty.
He does not need to be great, nor the best. He just needs to keep doing what he is doing. Right now, that is playing very well in both run and pass blocking.
Perhaps he's just one of those guys who can't play injured.
The question about him was always mental, not about his physical skills set.
Kudos to you Will Beatty, for working your way back from a terrible injury and holding down the left side so far. Keep it up!
Quote:
the entire team was brutal last year. Singling Beatty was always dumb.
Because other players played poorly, Beatty's poor play shouldn't be brought up?
And no one played as poorly as Beatty who was also in their physical prime and once a good player. His decline was astonishing.
Quote:
Eli released the ball in 2.65 seconds.
Where did you get these stats? I couldn't find it after trying to search for it
Through Pro Football Focus via Big Blue View
Link - ( New Window )
This URL is from Jenny Vrentas detailing each year of his deal. (I'm putting the URL for the list of Tackles as a bona fide link.)
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/02/full_breakdown_of_left_tackle.html
For all the wailing and moaning on here about how much he's costing the Giants, his actual numbers are hardsly out of line. In fact, given his performance in 2012 and now this year, are a relative bargain. I fail to see where he got an extraordinary amount of money considering other Tackle costs. Tackle costs for 2014 - ( New Window )
That doesn't matter when it shows a Giant in positive light.
If this was negative , the very same people patting themselves on the back for their patience with Beatty would be raising this point as well as more generally questioning the the validity of PFFs work.
The rebound to this level (whatever the level is) was never a given.
Charles Brown is the guy who surprised me. I knew he had a bad season in N.O. but I figured the guy would have been good enough to at least be a solid swing tackle pickup if not be a no-brainer starter if Beatty injury didn't heal properly.
I think that Beatty is more of a quiet and introverted sort than most NFL players. He makes his first mistake, whiffing completely on a guy who then plants Eli, and immediately he is shaken up and very worried that about repeating that error. When he screws up again, he starts becoming completely unhinged.
You can't play that position without confidence. You have to shake off the mistake like a beaten corner. As the season went on and Eli's problems continued and more and more fingers were pointed at Beatty, he more and more played the position with fear instead of confidence.
(A lot of the above comes from my own experience playing left field in Little League.)
There's a lot of over-reaction in both directions. We beat two bottom half teams and now everyone's excited. Well, the Lions might turn out to be pretty good this year.
But they have Atlanta next, and they will be favored, which is bad news, then its at Philly, at Dallas, Colts and at Seattle (ugh). I'd be happy with two of three. That would keep them close enough to have a shot if they put it together in the second half of the season.
I've always liked Beatty. He may be a detached mercenary, or a lisping smart-ass, or the hugely-gifted, ungrateful antithesis of Coughlin's ideal, military, everything-for-God -and-the-team over-achiever. I still like him. And when he's keeping Eli clean and blocking his ass off in the running game, I like him a lot.
Beatty in the locker room. - ( New Window )
The other factions are as you describe
Quote:
...on the list of left tackle cost-against-the-cap right now.
This URL is from Jenny Vrentas detailing each year of his deal. (I'm putting the URL for the list of Tackles as a bona fide link.)
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/02/full_breakdown_of_left_tackle.html
For all the wailing and moaning on here about how much he's costing the Giants, his actual numbers are hardsly out of line. In fact, given his performance in 2012 and now this year, are a relative bargain. I fail to see where he got an extraordinary amount of money considering other Tackle costs. Tackle costs for 2014 - ( New Window )
Yep. People are moaning and complaining like he's being paid as a top 3 tackle when he isn't close.
This is the most annoying thing. People cite his salary without knowing the salaries around the league at the position. He's not killing the cap whatsoever.
Not how I interpret things. It was always, "fine, have your opinion, but can we at least wait and see if, when healthy, Beatty's last year was an aberration or reality, BEFORE we say for sure, he's crap?"
Completely fine to talk about Beatty's woes from last year but you and I both know there are certain people that bask in misery on this site. That's what I was originally responding to.
The line's improved quickly and I think Walton's hard-nosed style and no BullShit approach is paying off. he's not a pro bowler but he's been a stabilizing force imo.keep chopping wood
Maybe it has more to do with the unrest on the entire O-line last year that caused Beatty to struggle the most, and the awful down/distances that he was asked to hold up against...i don't know.
But with that said, it would be nice to get another Tackle in the door before next season starts...
Completely fine to talk about Beatty's woes from last year but you and I both know there are certain people that bask in misery on this site. That's what I was originally responding to.
Obviously there are trolls on every site, but I guess my point was the Beatty critics went beyond the normal trolls and into mainstream and somewhat legitimate criticism. But, no doubt, there are regular dopes who just say stuff to get a rise out of people. I agree with that
If he was a WR, i'd put a lot more on him alone, but so much goes into O-Line unity that I can't point my finger at one guy.
I don't think many people really know much about him. I certainly didn't. You hear things like he may not be committed to football, but that is not the person I heard speak about the game last night. I can't explain what happened to him last year, but he does not come off as a guy who's just mailing it in, or coasting on physical ability, or having a low football IQ.
I don't think many people really know much about him. I certainly didn't. You hear things like he may not be committed to football, but that is not the person I heard speak about the game last night. I can't explain what happened to him last year, but he does not come off as a guy who's just mailing it in, or coasting on physical ability, or having a low football IQ.
I heard it. Great interview, intelligent guy. I agree, he sounds to me like a very dedicated, hard worker. I was in the camp that he was a "show me" player this year. Well, consider me shown at this point.
The other factions are as you describe
What did I say? I thought that I gave Beatty a legitimate excuse for having an off year: after signing the big contract and being anointed the Giants' left tackle for the rest of the teens he was now being watched by all. Pressure to a sensitive person (Maybe Beatty's not as sensitive as I thought.) can be just absolutely paralyzing.
You know, I've started making those kinds of typing errors also. My brain, as always, is telling my fingers what to type, in this case the word "know." But my fingers bang out "no" instead. Dementia, here I come.