Made an excellent point, regardless of names, they are NOT mascots. An Indian isn't a Bear, or Lion or Jet. And don't give me Packers or Cowboys, those were based on occupations in the regions. I think all of the Native American mascots should go quite frankly. I never considered that making a NI a mascot is akin to cartooning them. I'd be pissed too if my people had been crapped on repeatedly by a Government that used to hunt them for bounties and rewarded us by calling us brave and slapping us on football helmets and baseball jerseys.
Understood, I just never saw the issue that way. I have been in favor of the Redskins changing the name, I just never considered the mascot part in a broader scope I suppose.
If I was a NA and I saw some idiot Redskins fans in headdresses and wooden tomahawks, I'd be mortified. It's a complete caricature of a people, one that needs to go to away.
You know they will find the fighting Irish offensive too.
No "they" won't. Nobody will find that offensive. It's an idiotic analogy.
Meh. Comparing Redskin and Fighting Irish is not reasonable, but the idea that a mascot should not be a caricature would certainly encompass both Indian/Brave/Chief and Fighting Irish.
You know they will find the fighting Irish offensive too.
The funny thing is that most Irish people are actually proud of this. Drunken Irish who like to fight. Then, your day is St Patrick's day... again getting loaded. Right after eating a meal that has been boiled to death. They dont even eat corned beef and cabbage on St Patricks day in Ireland.
If I was Irish, I would be fighting to change this.
You know they will find the fighting Irish offensive too.
No "they" won't. Nobody will find that offensive. It's an idiotic analogy.
Meh. Comparing Redskin and Fighting Irish is not reasonable, but the idea that a mascot should not be a caricature would certainly encompass both Indian/Brave/Chief and Fighting Irish.
The mascot is a freaking leprechaun. Not remotely the same.
The Redskins were named around 1934. Their original name was the "Braves" but the owners didn't want them being confused with their baseball club the Boston Braves. They chose Redskins because one of the owners was part American Indian and 3 of their star players were also American Indian.
In 1970, the Redskins commissioned a full-blooded American Indian to design their new (and present) team logo. He was happy to do so and said the logo exemplified the American Indian "warrior".
the last in American professional sports to integrate might err on the side of caution when it came to issues of race and perception. But instead you have Redskins Facts, no doubt authored by the Goebbels of the Mascot Wars.
And a ND fan, fighting Irish is a compliment as far as I'm concerned.
And the only U2 song I like is "Bad".
Got a problem with that? Huh? Huh?
Right... you are a ND fan because they are called the fighting Irish.
Amazing that with all of the culture that Ireland has, you are ok with it all being boiled down to drinking and fighting. The Greeks have math, art, philosophy and known for being warriors (sober).
So, is this really how you would like your Irish heritage to be portrayed? I am more bothered by it than you are apparently.
Personally I think the grinning Native American mascot is the most offensive of them all. Not to mention that 'Indian' refers to a person from a country in SE Asia - somehow Cleveland gets a pass tho
I'm just surprised that it's not until 2014 that people find the team name, logo and fight song to be offensive.
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
I'm just surprised that it's not until 2014 that people find the team name, logo and fight song to be offensive.
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
Your premise is entirely and utterly false. This didn't start in 2014. So...
I'm just surprised that it's not until 2014 that people find the team name, logo and fight song to be offensive.
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
Your premise is entirely and utterly false. This didn't start in 2014. So...
And even if it had, so what? Should the US have stuck with slavery forever because it took us 250 years to figure out it was wrong? That's just laughably bad reasoning.
( CiP going, " oh no, not the Digger Phelps story again!")
I'll be brief, lol.
Digger Phelps is a family friend and a former next door neighbor when he coached at Fordham in 1972.
( see Chris, that wasn't so bad)
As far as qualifying as Irish, my name isn't really rocky thompson, my dad had 21 brothers and sisters, my grandparents had to learn the language off the boat, you'd think with almost 100 first cousins, someone would have left me some money along the line, ya know? A lot of funerals listening to
an Irish Lullaby, also known as Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra. Not possible to hear it done properly and not cry.
Anyway, take my word that I'm qualified to be offended by "Fighting Irish".
If you're interested, I can share some stories about ND sports from the seventies til present. Sorry if I was glib, didn't mean to be...
The Redskins were named around 1934. Their original name was the "Braves" but the owners didn't want them being confused with their baseball club the Boston Braves. They chose Redskins because one of the owners was part American Indian and 3 of their star players were also American Indian.
In 1970, the Redskins commissioned a full-blooded American Indian to design their new (and present) team logo. He was happy to do so and said the logo exemplified the American Indian "warrior".
Completely false even though Redskins fans like to throw it out there as fact. The Redskins name had nothing to do with one of the owners being part Indian, which has been proven that he wasn't Indian at all. Actually, William Dietz faced a federal trial for falsely claiming to be a Native American just to avoid the draft for World War I.
And it didn't have anything to do with any American Indian players either. George Preston Marshall, the original owner who came up with the name admitted that it had nothing to do with that. It had to do with coming up with a name that could help popularize the team and the sport by riding off the coat tails of the Red Sox name. link - ( New Window )
( CiP going, " oh no, not the Digger Phelps story again!")
I'll be brief, lol.
Digger Phelps is a family friend and a former next door neighbor when he coached at Fordham in 1972.
( see Chris, that wasn't so bad)
As far as qualifying as Irish, my name isn't really rocky thompson, my dad had 21 brothers and sisters, my grandparents had to learn the language off the boat, you'd think with almost 100 first cousins, someone would have left me some money along the line, ya know? A lot of funerals listening to
an Irish Lullaby, also known as Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra. Not possible to hear it done properly and not cry.
Anyway, take my word that I'm qualified to be offended by "Fighting Irish".
If you're interested, I can share some stories about ND sports from the seventies til present. Sorry if I was glib, didn't mean to be...
Rocky... holy crap 21 brothers and sisters? Your grandmothers uterus should be in the Smithsonian Museum right now. My only point really is that we both know there is so much more to the Irish heritage than drinking and fighting... but most people will never know.
When I was at ND, it was when coach Davie first came to the team in the mid 90's. I think I was the only one on campus rooting against them.
will eventually change the name. The issue isn't going away and only seems to be picking up steam over the years. I think it's probably only a matter of time. I'll be surprised if it doesn't happen within the next decade.
Well then why is it that when someone calls me "chief", I want to punch him in the balls?
Quote:
Chiefs is not
Well then why is it that when someone calls me "chief", I want to punch him in the balls?
You okay, chief?
Quote:
Chiefs is not
Well then why is it that when someone calls me "chief", I want to punch him in the balls?
Lighten up, Chief.
(Throws punch to the marbles...)
Lol...
Exactly, what could possibly be derogatory about Chiefs? Not remotely similar to Redskins.
If I was a NA and I saw some idiot Redskins fans in headdresses and wooden tomahawks, I'd be mortified. It's a complete caricature of a people, one that needs to go to away.
No "they" won't. Nobody will find that offensive. It's an idiotic analogy.
Quote:
You know they will find the fighting Irish offensive too.
No "they" won't. Nobody will find that offensive. It's an idiotic analogy.
Meh. Comparing Redskin and Fighting Irish is not reasonable, but the idea that a mascot should not be a caricature would certainly encompass both Indian/Brave/Chief and Fighting Irish.
The funny thing is that most Irish people are actually proud of this. Drunken Irish who like to fight. Then, your day is St Patrick's day... again getting loaded. Right after eating a meal that has been boiled to death. They dont even eat corned beef and cabbage on St Patricks day in Ireland.
If I was Irish, I would be fighting to change this.
And a ND fan, fighting Irish is a compliment as far as I'm concerned.
And the only U2 song I like is "Bad".
Got a problem with that? Huh? Huh?
Why did it take until 1965, also some 100 years, to figure out that segregation was "morally reprehensible"?
You are well-versed on the topic, I see.
Quote:
In comment 11890643 Fast Adam said:
Quote:
You know they will find the fighting Irish offensive too.
No "they" won't. Nobody will find that offensive. It's an idiotic analogy.
Meh. Comparing Redskin and Fighting Irish is not reasonable, but the idea that a mascot should not be a caricature would certainly encompass both Indian/Brave/Chief and Fighting Irish.
The mascot is a freaking leprechaun. Not remotely the same.
** blink **
In 1970, the Redskins commissioned a full-blooded American Indian to design their new (and present) team logo. He was happy to do so and said the logo exemplified the American Indian "warrior".
Our opinions don't matter, we aren't the offended, we don't get to tell anyone what offends them.
And a ND fan, fighting Irish is a compliment as far as I'm concerned.
And the only U2 song I like is "Bad".
Got a problem with that? Huh? Huh?
Right... you are a ND fan because they are called the fighting Irish.
Amazing that with all of the culture that Ireland has, you are ok with it all being boiled down to drinking and fighting. The Greeks have math, art, philosophy and known for being warriors (sober).
So, is this really how you would like your Irish heritage to be portrayed? I am more bothered by it than you are apparently.
You can't just dis Agarn like that, ya know?
Two little indians - ( New Window )
I'm a ND fan because they are called the Fighting Irish.
*sigh*
So, how bout Charlie Weis, huh? Guess that stomach staple wasn't such a great idea...
I'm a ND fan because they are called the Fighting Irish.
*sigh*
So, how bout Charlie Weis, huh? Guess that stomach staple wasn't such a great idea...
You lost me on the Charlie Weiss stomach staple comment. Meanwhile, I did take some post graduate classes at ND.
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
Your premise is entirely and utterly false. This didn't start in 2014. So...
Quote:
I'm just surprised that it's not until 2014 that people find the team name, logo and fight song to be offensive.
The PC crowd isn't going to be happy to just change the name of the Redskins... they won't stop until they shut down the "National Felon League" altogether. (Their terminology, not mine)
Your premise is entirely and utterly false. This didn't start in 2014. So...
And even if it had, so what? Should the US have stuck with slavery forever because it took us 250 years to figure out it was wrong? That's just laughably bad reasoning.
Walk in the station and even the guys and girls hired after I left call me chief.
I personally enjoy the respect.
( CiP going, " oh no, not the Digger Phelps story again!")
I'll be brief, lol.
Digger Phelps is a family friend and a former next door neighbor when he coached at Fordham in 1972.
( see Chris, that wasn't so bad)
As far as qualifying as Irish, my name isn't really rocky thompson, my dad had 21 brothers and sisters, my grandparents had to learn the language off the boat, you'd think with almost 100 first cousins, someone would have left me some money along the line, ya know? A lot of funerals listening to
an Irish Lullaby, also known as Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra. Not possible to hear it done properly and not cry.
Anyway, take my word that I'm qualified to be offended by "Fighting Irish".
If you're interested, I can share some stories about ND sports from the seventies til present. Sorry if I was glib, didn't mean to be...
How you been, chief?
In 1970, the Redskins commissioned a full-blooded American Indian to design their new (and present) team logo. He was happy to do so and said the logo exemplified the American Indian "warrior".
Completely false even though Redskins fans like to throw it out there as fact. The Redskins name had nothing to do with one of the owners being part Indian, which has been proven that he wasn't Indian at all. Actually, William Dietz faced a federal trial for falsely claiming to be a Native American just to avoid the draft for World War I.
And it didn't have anything to do with any American Indian players either. George Preston Marshall, the original owner who came up with the name admitted that it had nothing to do with that. It had to do with coming up with a name that could help popularize the team and the sport by riding off the coat tails of the Red Sox name.
link - ( New Window )
And a ND fan, fighting Irish is a compliment as far as I'm concerned.
And the only U2 song I like is "Bad".
Got a problem with that? Huh? Huh?
You're not truly Irish unless you still live at home with your mom.
( CiP going, " oh no, not the Digger Phelps story again!")
I'll be brief, lol.
Digger Phelps is a family friend and a former next door neighbor when he coached at Fordham in 1972.
( see Chris, that wasn't so bad)
As far as qualifying as Irish, my name isn't really rocky thompson, my dad had 21 brothers and sisters, my grandparents had to learn the language off the boat, you'd think with almost 100 first cousins, someone would have left me some money along the line, ya know? A lot of funerals listening to
an Irish Lullaby, also known as Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra. Not possible to hear it done properly and not cry.
Anyway, take my word that I'm qualified to be offended by "Fighting Irish".
If you're interested, I can share some stories about ND sports from the seventies til present. Sorry if I was glib, didn't mean to be...
Rocky... holy crap 21 brothers and sisters? Your grandmothers uterus should be in the Smithsonian Museum right now. My only point really is that we both know there is so much more to the Irish heritage than drinking and fighting... but most people will never know.
When I was at ND, it was when coach Davie first came to the team in the mid 90's. I think I was the only one on campus rooting against them.
just go to ANY english dictionary and look up the word
merriam-webster dictionary
red·skin noun \ˈred-ËŒskin\
usually offensive
: american indian
cambridge dictionary
redskin
noun [C] UK /ˈred.skɪn/ offensive US
› old-fashioned for a Native American
dictionary.com
redskin
[red-skin]
noun, Slang: Often Disparaging and Offensive.
1.
a North American Indian.
oxford dictionary
redskin NOUN
dated or offensive
An American Indian.