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Pats & Saints at the end of their runs?

njm : 9/30/2014 9:01 am
Brady and Brees are still top shelf QBs, but it looks like their supporting casts have declined. Neither team's OL look like their recent predecesors, nor do the LB's. NE's TE's and WR's are a shadow of what they once were. And that's about as bad as Reavis has looked in run support since he arrived in the NFL.

Looks like both teams may have entered rebuilding mode.
The Pats always seemed to have 12 picks  
Headhunter : 9/30/2014 9:03 am : link
in the draft
I think They'll rebound quickly  
Dan in WNY : 9/30/2014 9:05 am : link
if not this season then next. Both teams are set at the most important position on the field. I think the talent differences between NFL teams these days outside of QBs is not that difficult to overcome anymore because of free agency and the draft
The Patriots are 2 - 2  
pjcas18 : 9/30/2014 9:11 am : link
I really do trust Belichick on his philosophy, that you cannot judge a team in September, ask him Thanksgiving and he'll know what he has in his team - and he's not talking about injuries.

When you have as much turnover (self-inflicted or not) as they do, it takes a while for players to acclimate

I wouldn't shovel dirt on their grave yet.
Since the Saints are in the NFC I hope  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/30/2014 9:11 am : link
they don't fire Rob Ryan but they should. He's an idiot. They have a lot of holes that Breees coveres up. Not so much this year but of the two teams the saints are more likely to rebound this year, Letting Sproles go may have been a pretty big mistake too.

NE is a mess. They WRs blow. We thought the cupboard was pretty bare but Brady's best WR is Julian Eddleman? Belichick is an unbelievable coach but I other than Gronk and Brady that offense is pedestrian to pathetic.
Amazing how pedestrian one can look  
Big Blue '56 : 9/30/2014 9:11 am : link
and mistakes made when you don't have a performing OL..
RE: The Patriots are 2 - 2  
Big Blue '56 : 9/30/2014 9:13 am : link
In comment 11891131 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I really do trust Belichick on his philosophy, that you cannot judge a team in September, ask him Thanksgiving and he'll know what he has in his team - and he's not talking about injuries.

When you have as much turnover (self-inflicted or not) as they do, it takes a while for players to acclimate

I wouldn't shovel dirt on their grave yet.


Absolutely, however, Brady has never looked this bad, this tentative, over a four game span as he has this year to date, imo
I think Brady is in the downside of his career  
Bramton1 : 9/30/2014 9:16 am : link
He still is an excellent quarterback, but not enough anymore to mask his team's deficiencies.
The Pats are still in the AFC East, right?  
jcn56 : 9/30/2014 9:17 am : link
Granted, they might not be the powerhouse in the playoffs that they once were, but they'll still be there again this year.

The Saints on the other hand look like shit, not sure what the hell is going on there.
The Saints D cant stop anyone  
MetsAreBack : 9/30/2014 9:21 am : link
and Sproles and Lance Moore were big losses to their offense. Not easy when your #1 WR now is a rookie, albeit a talented one. Graham is phenominal, but last season was borderline historic - he can't repeat that. Saints arent making the playoffs.

This Pats team is pedestrian at best. Brady is still really good, but he's not what he was, and they have a ton of holes to fill. But... of course... what else is new... their division sucks balls yet again, has for 15 years now outside of two good years from the Jets and 1 good year from the Dolphins... so they'll probably still get in at 10-6.
Big Blue '56  
Percy : 9/30/2014 9:32 am : link
You can say that again! Not something that only affected the Giants after all. Just happens. Then have to rebuild, which takes time. Nothing else for it. How good has Reese been at this? We'll see . . . .
their SB runs may be over  
UConn4523 : 9/30/2014 9:36 am : link
but I still expect the Pats in the playoffs and the Saints to make a playoff push. If there's any team that can string together 5 or 6 wins, its them in that dome.

Still mindblown about the Pats NOT getting Brady a big weapon these last couple years. When you can't stretch the field, your ability to break open games severely diminishes. Maybe they have tried and we just aren't aware, but I find it hard to believe they couldn't move up in the draft or sign a decent FA at WR that isn't 5'8"
What BB'56 said  
Feb.3,2008 : 9/30/2014 9:49 am : link
Excellent pt.
put it this way  
giantfanboy : 9/30/2014 10:21 am : link
like Peyton

if Brees or Brady became free agents
you would have a line of of teams around the block who would love to have them on their team.

imagine a team like the bears or kc chiefs with brady or brees
they would make that leap to top tier team like denver did when they got peyton
We'll have to see on the Pats  
dpinzow : 9/30/2014 10:22 am : link
but the Saints are in deep s*** because they're actually $19 million over the salary cap next year
Brady is 37, he could be declining finally.  
Victor in CT : 9/30/2014 11:06 am : link
And if he is, the chariot will turn into a pumpkin for NE for a while.

As for the Saints "run", what run? They won once when they had home field, oogatz every other year, couldn't even beat SF outdoors on a gorgeous day in 2011 playoffs. I can't call a team great that can't win big games on the road. Dangerous yes, great no.
What we are seeing is evidence that QBs need tools = players  
idinkido : 9/30/2014 11:27 am : link
Many people threw Eli under the bus for last year. No running game, poor offensive line, and Nicks quit on the team! Brady is not declining. There is no talent to support him.
AFC East and NFC south  
Fred in Atlanta : 9/30/2014 11:29 am : link
are easily the two worst divisions in the NFL this year. So both teams have a good chance to make the playoffs, maybe at 8-8
Belicheck  
BigBlueCane : 9/30/2014 11:31 am : link
misses Pioli's counsel.
Brady And Brees' Struggles  
Trainmaster : 9/30/2014 11:36 am : link
highlight why Peyton was so careful / selective in picking his new team. He seems to have done OK.



RE: RE: The Patriots are 2 - 2  
pjcas18 : 9/30/2014 11:39 am : link
In comment 11891137 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 11891131 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


I really do trust Belichick on his philosophy, that you cannot judge a team in September, ask him Thanksgiving and he'll know what he has in his team - and he's not talking about injuries.

When you have as much turnover (self-inflicted or not) as they do, it takes a while for players to acclimate

I wouldn't shovel dirt on their grave yet.



Absolutely, however, Brady has never looked this bad, this tentative, over a four game span as he has this year to date, imo


Go back and look at weeks 1 - 4 last year.

They started 4 - 0, but he had two games with a QB Rating in the 70's and one low 90's. They started similarly last year.
Saints & Pats  
stretch234 : 9/30/2014 11:40 am : link
Funny what pressure up the middle does to a QB - even top level QB's.
Not sure they are at the end of their runs but  
BeerFridge : 9/30/2014 11:41 am : link
it sure is SUPER weird to see Brady and Brees look shitty
Brady  
Doomster : 9/30/2014 12:21 pm : link
is still good, but he is definitely on the downside of his career....he is missing passes he normally made in clutch situations....he always had that ability to get that extra second by sliding in the pocket....but now, especially the last two years, you are seeing him go down and take the sack, sometimes, just when pressure is just near.......

When the season started, the talk around here was, now the Pats had a shut down defense, and that Brady and the offense would not have to carry the team as much....Revis was suppose to shut down the other teams's best receiver and they would be able to double the other side....Wilfork was back to stop the run....young defensive players had a year under their belt.....

It hasn't panned out that way, thus far....It's only 4 games, and things can turn around.....but Brady has to stop favoring Edelman....Gronk has to look like the Gronk of old.....this OL has to get it's shit together.....

Revis is already talking to the press, comparing BB to Rex, and the difference in their defensive philosophies(probably hedging for going on the free agent market next year, because under the current contract, there is no way in hell they resign him(25M cap hit))....

Wilfork is not the player he once was, a lucky bounce on an int, notwithstanding...BB benched his starting corner last night...Pats can't generate a pass rush.....

The Bengals show up in Foxboro, in a Sunday night game, no less....What happens if they lose that one? Be interesting to see how the crowd reacts...
Didn't people get mad at people for saying the same thing  
chris r : 9/30/2014 12:22 pm : link
About the giants?
RE: put it this way  
Toth029 : 9/30/2014 12:23 pm : link
In comment 11891260 giantfanboy said:
Quote:
like Peyton

if Brees or Brady became free agents
you would have a line of of teams around the block who would love to have them on their team.

imagine a team like the bears or kc chiefs with brady or brees
they would make that leap to top tier team like denver did when they got peyton

Brady's arm is whack. He can't throw deep and even his accuracy on short throws are off lately.
The Saints are going to be $20M over the cap  
PeterS : 9/30/2014 1:29 pm : link
next year. Patriots are in a transition year as evidenced by the Mankins trade.
A point made on Sirius Radio...  
JOrthman : 9/30/2014 1:52 pm : link
The Patriots always try to outsmart themselves and build for the future. They need to concentrate on now, while they have Brady, not wait for the future.
Garoppolo  
pjcas18 : 9/30/2014 1:57 pm : link
looks pretty good. In fact he has looked better than Bridgewater and Bortles (in garbage time and PS albeit)- haven't really seen Carr, but I don't think its a stretch to feel like they might have his successor here.

if they believe that, they'd be better suited for trading Brady. I know that's hard to fathom, but if there is any franchise in any sport that would trade the face of their franchise if they thought they'd be a better team for it; it's the New England Patriots.
RE: The Saints are going to be $20M over the cap  
glowrider : 9/30/2014 2:00 pm : link
In comment 11891712 PeterS said:
Quote:
next year. Patriots are in a transition year as evidenced by the Mankins trade.


A Pats transposition year means 10+ wins. Those guys adapt better and faster than anyone. They'll be there at the end if they can get the line together for Brady and if that defense can figure it out. No team has done more with less over a decade than the Pats.
*transition  
glowrider : 9/30/2014 2:01 pm : link
.
i'm more concerned (not really)  
djm : 9/30/2014 2:17 pm : link
about the Saints. They look terrible against average at best competition. Losing to Dallas wasn't bad but they could have lost that game by 100.

The Pats can turn things around. For starters, they might win a game on the road this season. The Saints are front runners that don't have the star power they used to have. 8-8 at best for the Saints.

I still have to pick the PAts to win that division. 10-6.
RE: The Saints are going to be $20M over the cap  
dpinzow : 9/30/2014 3:06 pm : link
In comment 11891712 PeterS said:
Quote:
next year. Patriots are in a transition year as evidenced by the Mankins trade.


I also mentioned that...Junior Galette of all people consumes $15.4 million of their salary cap in 2015, and they don't save anything if they cut him!

Drew Brees' cap number next year is an insane $26.4 million, and he's starting to age a bit. Some of the throws he missed against the Cowboys he would have made in his sleep two years ago
Basically, the Saints are completed F'ed  
dpinzow : 9/30/2014 3:07 pm : link
...
RE: Belicheck  
David in LA : 9/30/2014 3:50 pm : link
In comment 11891417 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
misses Pioli's counsel.


Pioli hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of success post-Belicheck.
RE: Amazing how pedestrian one can look  
micky : 9/30/2014 3:53 pm : link
In comment 11891134 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
and mistakes made when you don't have a performing OL..



That's sounds awful familar
RE: RE: Belicheck  
Victor in CT : 9/30/2014 4:06 pm : link
In comment 11892050 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 11891417 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


misses Pioli's counsel.



Pioli hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of success post-Belicheck.


A lot of his players are doing pretty well under Andy Reid in KC
RE: RE: RE: Belicheck  
NINEster : 9/30/2014 10:39 pm : link
In comment 11892083 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11892050 David in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 11891417 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


misses Pioli's counsel.



Pioli hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of success post-Belicheck.



A lot of his players are doing pretty well under Andy Reid in KC


A mix of new and old because they got new GM John Dorsey last year.
Pats fans after last night's game  
TheBigBlueOne : 9/30/2014 11:39 pm : link
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