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NFT: First case of Ebola in the US confirmed

DanMetroMan : 9/30/2014 4:59 pm
CDC: Ebola confirmed in Dallas patient

A patient in a Dallas hospital has been confirmed to have the Ebola virus, News 8 has learned.Read on wfaa.& #8203;com

From WFAA:

In a statement issued Tuesday night, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas said the patient was admitted based on symptoms and "recent travel history."

The hospital, located at Greenville Avenue and Walnut Hill Lane in northeast Dallas, said it's complying with all recommendations from the Centers for Disease Control and the Texas Department of Health to ensure the safety of other patients and medical staff.
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RE: So far up to 20 have been exposed  
natefit : 10/2/2014 9:07 am : link
In comment 11894785 Canton said:
Quote:
That they know of....


Make that 80.
Link - ( New Window )
The natefit  
Rob in NYC : 10/2/2014 9:10 am : link
Alert system must be pegged to the red!
RE: RE: So far up to 20 have been exposed  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 9:16 am : link
In comment 11894895 natefit said:
Quote:
In comment 11894785 Canton said:


Quote:


That they know of....



Make that 80. Link - ( New Window )


If you read the article, they are being monitored. That doesn't mean they were exposed to anything.

Remember, it's not airborne transmittable.

This is the exact reason that it won't spread.
RE: RE: So far up to 20 have been exposed  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 9:18 am : link
In comment 11894895 natefit said:
Quote:
In comment 11894785 Canton said:


Quote:


That they know of....



Make that 80. Link - ( New Window )


Quote:
None has shown symptoms, and all are being given educational materials, Neroes said.

None of the 80 has been quarantined, Neroes said. However, Dallas County health officials have ordered four close relatives of the patient, Thomas Eric Duncan, to stay home and not have any visitors until at least October 19.


Hopefully they took care of that vomit  
buford : 10/2/2014 9:29 am : link
I heard that the family is in isolation and being monitored. Also, the virus can survive on surfaces up to 6 days, depending on the temperature, but can be neutralized by household bleach. Also, it can survive in sperm up to 7 weeks after recovery from infection. YEAH!!!!
Perhaps the people that want to blame the ER staff  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:13 am : link
should, at one point or another, follow an ER doctor/nurse around.

Quite often, extraneous material like that becomes ignored, and for good reason in most of the cases.
kicker  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 10:16 am : link
I assume they dropped the ball because they themselves seem to indicate they did.

Quote:
“Regretfully, that information was not fully communicated throughout the full teams. As a result, the full import of that information wasn’t factored into the full decision making,” Texas hospital official Mark Lester said....
Steve  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:21 am : link
I never said anything about people not fucking up.

I was pointing out that, to make it through the stream of patients and provide adequate care, a lot of information given by the patients is tossed aside (or given nothing more than a cursory thought). Most of the times, it's for good reasons (which, again, why I said "most").

Plus, it's a hospital administrator making that message. It's about as boilerplate as it gets.
It's not just about blame  
buford : 10/2/2014 10:27 am : link
but we are being told that 'it cant' happen here' because all these protocols are in place. Except they aren't. I would think any ER would see a man from Africa with fever and immediately think Ebola, I know many ERs have. I'm not sure why this one didn't.
RE: kicker  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 10:27 am : link
In comment 11895063 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I assume they dropped the ball because they themselves seem to indicate they did.



Quote:


“Regretfully, that information was not fully communicated throughout the full teams. As a result, the full import of that information wasn’t factored into the full decision making,” Texas hospital official Mark Lester said....



Yeah, they should have caught it, but understand why that information was lost in the diagnoses/treatment chain.
RE: It's not just about blame  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:30 am : link
In comment 11895103 buford said:
Quote:
but we are being told that 'it cant' happen here' because all these protocols are in place. Except they aren't. I would think any ER would see a man from Africa with fever and immediately think Ebola, I know many ERs have. I'm not sure why this one didn't.


Yes, widespread contagion won't happen here, because of the procedures in place.

That says nothing about individual cases. Any theory that espouse that something can be stopped with 0 cases is espoused by someone who's not operating with a full deck.
I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 10:31 am : link
about the possibility of he having contracted it and likely didn't casually say he has returned from Africa like it was from a vacation, but would have told them he had been working with sick Ebola patients.
Whoa. The news article only says that he "mentioned he had  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:35 am : link
recently returned from West Africa (a pretty large place, and not all with Ebola, by the way).

That's a very large jump to "he told people he was taking care of people with Ebola". That's routinely on the checklist of ER personnel to help provide others with info.
RE: I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
RC02XX : 10/2/2014 10:36 am : link
In comment 11895121 steve in ky said:
Quote:
about the possibility of he having contracted it and likely didn't casually say he has returned from Africa like it was from a vacation, but would have told them he had been working with sick Ebola patients.


Wait...he was working with Ebola patients? I haven't really followed the specifics of this case, so I wasn't aware that he was working with Ebola patients in Africa.
And, conversely, sick patients with potentially deadly illnesses  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:37 am : link
now tell medical professionals about their diagnosis?

That goes against the grain of what's been reported, historically and currently. People fear the diagnosis, people fear the community reaction to their diagnosis, people act as if they don't have it, and people generally try to avoid divulging that information.

For fuck's sake, only until recently has telling other people about HIV infections become more mainstream.
RE: It's not just about blame  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 10:39 am : link
In comment 11895103 buford said:
Quote:
but we are being told that 'it cant' happen here' because all these protocols are in place. Except they aren't. I would think any ER would see a man from Africa with fever and immediately think Ebola, I know many ERs have. I'm not sure why this one didn't.


We don't know who was taking the history. Could have been some medical student doing their clinical. With the ignorance of geography today, Sierra Leone could have been a town in ND.

Someone said the EMS personnel. I haven't seen a report that this patient was transported by EMS.

I assumed it was a POV (privately owned vehicle) transport.
RE: And, conversely, sick patients with potentially deadly illnesses  
RC02XX : 10/2/2014 10:39 am : link
In comment 11895142 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
now tell medical professionals about their diagnosis?

That goes against the grain of what's been reported, historically and currently. People fear the diagnosis, people fear the community reaction to their diagnosis, people act as if they don't have it, and people generally try to avoid divulging that information.

For fuck's sake, only until recently has telling other people about HIV infections become more mainstream.


Yeah...for the majority it has always been that people underplay their illness/sickness, especially if you were aware of the stigma associated with a certain disease.
RE: RE: I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 10:40 am : link
In comment 11895135 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 11895121 steve in ky said:


Quote:


about the possibility of he having contracted it and likely didn't casually say he has returned from Africa like it was from a vacation, but would have told them he had been working with sick Ebola patients.



Wait...he was working with Ebola patients? I haven't really followed the specifics of this case, so I wasn't aware that he was working with Ebola patients in Africa.


Quote:
The New York Times said that Duncan, in his mid-40s, helped transport a pregnant woman suffering from Ebola to a hospital in Liberia, where she was turned away for lack of space. Duncan helped bring the woman back to her family's home and carried her into the house, where she later died, the newspaper reported.
RE: RE: RE: I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
RC02XX : 10/2/2014 10:43 am : link
In comment 11895155 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 11895135 RC02XX said:


Quote:


In comment 11895121 steve in ky said:


Quote:


about the possibility of he having contracted it and likely didn't casually say he has returned from Africa like it was from a vacation, but would have told them he had been working with sick Ebola patients.



Wait...he was working with Ebola patients? I haven't really followed the specifics of this case, so I wasn't aware that he was working with Ebola patients in Africa.





Quote:


The New York Times said that Duncan, in his mid-40s, helped transport a pregnant woman suffering from Ebola to a hospital in Liberia, where she was turned away for lack of space. Duncan helped bring the woman back to her family's home and carried her into the house, where she later died, the newspaper reported.



Thanks, steve. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say he was "working" with them (that makes it sound like he was in the midst of numerous Ebola infected patients) as much as he was in direct contact with someone with the disease. Either case, he definitely put himself in grave risk during his visit.
RE: And, conversely, sick patients with potentially deadly illnesses  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 10:47 am : link
In comment 11895142 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
now tell medical professionals about their diagnosis?

That goes against the grain of what's been reported, historically and currently. People fear the diagnosis, people fear the community reaction to their diagnosis, people act as if they don't have it, and people generally try to avoid divulging that information.

For fuck's sake, only until recently has telling other people about HIV infections become more mainstream.
In what world would someone having just returned from helping dying Ebola patients in Africa who gets sick enough to go to the hospital not mention that fact along with having been there?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 10:49 am : link
In comment 11895162 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 11895155 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In comment 11895135 RC02XX said:


Quote:


In comment 11895121 steve in ky said:


Quote:


about the possibility of he having contracted it and likely didn't casually say he has returned from Africa like it was from a vacation, but would have told them he had been working with sick Ebola patients.



Wait...he was working with Ebola patients? I haven't really followed the specifics of this case, so I wasn't aware that he was working with Ebola patients in Africa.





Quote:


The New York Times said that Duncan, in his mid-40s, helped transport a pregnant woman suffering from Ebola to a hospital in Liberia, where she was turned away for lack of space. Duncan helped bring the woman back to her family's home and carried her into the house, where she later died, the newspaper reported.





Thanks, steve. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say he was "working" with them (that makes it sound like he was in the midst of numerous Ebola infected patients) as much as he was in direct contact with someone with the disease. Either case, he definitely put himself in grave risk during his visit.

Transporting, working, helping, however you choose to describe it I find it impossible to believe he would choose to skip that part of the story when telling the ER staff he was in Africa.
RE: RE: And, conversely, sick patients with potentially deadly illnesses  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 10:51 am : link
In comment 11895173 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 11895142 kickerpa16 said:


Quote:


now tell medical professionals about their diagnosis?

That goes against the grain of what's been reported, historically and currently. People fear the diagnosis, people fear the community reaction to their diagnosis, people act as if they don't have it, and people generally try to avoid divulging that information.

For fuck's sake, only until recently has telling other people about HIV infections become more mainstream.

In what world would someone having just returned from helping dying Ebola patients in Africa who gets sick enough to go to the hospital not mention that fact along with having been there?


The world that we live in?

What's the staple of the medical profession? People are hesitant to go to the doctors and divulge very personal information that could be a death sentence. People wait too long and give far too little.

Happens with: HIV, STD's, Ebola, etc.

Most people are not forthcoming about their medical history. He's coming from an area where people are killing others if they say "Ebola". And the fact that the newspaper article wouldn't mention this explicitly, when they have the "gotcha" moment of this century?

Yeah. He's likely not in the very small minority of being the few who report everything.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I would imagine the man was pretty scared  
RC02XX : 10/2/2014 10:52 am : link
In comment 11895178 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Transporting, working, helping, however you choose to describe it I find it impossible to believe he would choose to skip that part of the story when telling the ER staff he was in Africa.


And this goes back to what kicker stated in his 10:37 post. Also, did the guy know that the pregnant woman was suffering from Ebola and died from it? I think a lot of speculation is being made on what his rationale was, etc.
Well I am not going to argue about it, so my last point  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 11:04 am : link
The article states that she was suffering from it. I assume that the Times didn't immediately track down and find out who this unknown dead pregnant woman was and then also uncover that she had Ebola after the fact that he is now sick. It is much more likely he conveyed that information to someone and who the reporter got it from. Him not having any idea at all and it was only The Times piecing this together only days after it is reported he is sick is only plausible if you are looking for ways to apologize for the ER's goof.

RE: Well I am not going to argue about it, so my last point  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 11:13 am : link
In comment 11895215 steve in ky said:
Quote:
The article states that she was suffering from it. I assume that the Times didn't immediately track down and find out who this unknown dead pregnant woman was and then also uncover that she had Ebola after the fact that he is now sick. It is much more likely he conveyed that information to someone and who the reporter got it from. Him not having any idea at all and it was only The Times piecing this together only days after it is reported he is sick is only plausible if you are looking for ways to apologize for the ER's goof.


Who said apologize? It was an ER goof. An incomplete history is not an unusual occurrence for a number of reasons.

We, the general public, will never see a complete crib sheet because of HIPAA.

Hell, it took the RYAN WHITE law before medical facilities were permitted to notify first responders that they had been in contact with an infectious disease patient.
RE: Well I am not going to argue about it, so my last point  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 11:16 am : link
In comment 11895215 steve in ky said:
Quote:
The article states that she was suffering from it. I assume that the Times didn't immediately track down and find out who this unknown dead pregnant woman was and then also uncover that she had Ebola after the fact that he is now sick. It is much more likely he conveyed that information to someone and who the reporter got it from. Him not having any idea at all and it was only The Times piecing this together only days after it is reported he is sick is only plausible if you are looking for ways to apologize for the ER's goof.


Oh please. Where did I absolve the ER in this? If you want to be critical of an argument, at least don't distort it because you don't like that it goes against yours.

People are so ready to criticize with rudimentary understandings of an incredibly complex and dynamic environment.

So, what, you're ready to ascribe singular fault to the ER, and yet then believe in the fact that this person, coming from W. Africa and seeing what happens when you declare you have Ebola, openly expressed his direct contact with the disease?

OK.
Here is a link  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 11:19 am : link
that deals with notification procedures.
Link - ( New Window )
Posted this in another thread but I think it is more relevant here  
Dr Knockboots : 10/2/2014 11:20 am : link
Something is up with the CDC...

My wife works in the ER of a major hospital in NJ. She believes that there is something very fishy going on with this Texas hospital situation and the drips and drabs of details we are receiving.

Weeks ago, a patient showed up to the ER of her hospital with flu like symptoms. As is the custom -- ALWAYS -- they took the patient's travel history. He responded that he had just flown in from Liberia days earlier. News of African Ebola outbreaks had been around for weeks. So, immediately, they contacted the CDC for further instructions because the potential for an Ebola case automatically comes within the scope of the CDC's authority. The CDC's directive? Treat the patient for flu and send him home. After explicit requests for authority to conduct a test for Ebola, the CDC rejected them, saying that the person was "low risk." No further explanation. Of course, the doctor and the rest of the staff documented the hell out of this case, and sent him on his way.

We have not heard much from the Texas hospital. I cannot fathom that they did not -- as is patently obvious to all of us armchair medical professions -- contact the CDC immediately upon seeing that an African visitor with flu-like symptoms just flew in from Liberia. Every ER professional is hyper aware of Ebola and the likelihood that a patient with it will show up on their doorstep. Also, there's no way that someone in the ER did not know (or care to find out) whether Sierra Leone was in West Africa or that West Africa has been an Ebola hotbed for weeks/months. What the real story is here, I do not know, but something does not add up.
IMO  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 11:21 am : link
Since it kills something like 50% of the people who get it he would be scared to death and wouldn't keep it a secret from the doctors he was seeking help from.

But we will just have to agree to disagree, this is going in circles.
I'm not buying the officials' explanation  
Dr Knockboots : 10/2/2014 11:27 am : link
And neither does Dr. Sanjay Gupta from CNN:

Quote:
'They dropped the ball'

On September 24, four days after he arrived in Dallas from Liberia, Duncan started feeling symptoms. That day is significant because that's when he started being contagious.

Late the following night, he went to Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas with a low-grade fever and abdominal pain, the hospital said.

Duncan told a nurse he had been in Africa.
But "regretfully, that information was not fully communicated throughout the full team," said Dr. Mark Lester, executive vice president of Texas Health Resources. Duncan was sent home with painkillers and antibiotics, only to return in worse condition on September 28. That's when he was isolated.

"It was a mistake. They dropped the ball," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said of the miscommunication at the hospital.

"You don't want to pile on them, but hopefully this will never happen again. ... The CDC has been vigorously emphasizing the need for a travel history."

Gupta said this mishap doesn't make sense.

"A nurse did ask the question, and he did respond that he was in Liberia, and that wasn't transmitted to people who were in charge of his care," he said. "There's no excuse for this." And one of Duncan's friends said he was the one who contacted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention with concerns that the hospital wasn't moving quickly enough after Duncan's second hospital visit.
But the hospital said the patient's condition "did not warrant admission" last week.

CNN article - ( New Window )
.....  
ctc in ftmyers : 10/2/2014 11:30 am : link
"What the real story is here, I do not know, but something does not add up."

Haven't seen a response yet that disputes that.

You know then, with privacy laws, we will never be able to do more than speculate.

How many thousands of in-service hours have been spent on infectious disease intake protocol?

Talk between medical professionals and between general public will occur on different levels.
No one is saying they can crack the case  
Dr Knockboots : 10/2/2014 11:36 am : link
I'm just using specific anecdotes to show that the CDC is acting strangely and, now, there may be some sort of cover-up involved, pinning it on low-level hospital personnel. I'm also commenting that I do not believe the official accounts at all. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but I think that the details being offered with respect to his intake and discharge are straight up lies and that scares me.
They called for the Director of Secret Service head..  
Canton : 10/2/2014 11:38 am : link
The CDC next?

What a clusterfuck.
I'm just commenting  
Semipro Lineman : 10/2/2014 11:39 am : link
here to admire the fact that a poster with the screenname Dr Knockboots is commenting on a medical issue thread...
RE: RE: Well I am not going to argue about it, so my last point  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 11:53 am : link
In comment 11895248 kickerpa16 said:
Quote:
In comment 11895215 steve in ky said:


Quote:


The article states that she was suffering from it. I assume that the Times didn't immediately track down and find out who this unknown dead pregnant woman was and then also uncover that she had Ebola after the fact that he is now sick. It is much more likely he conveyed that information to someone and who the reporter got it from. Him not having any idea at all and it was only The Times piecing this together only days after it is reported he is sick is only plausible if you are looking for ways to apologize for the ER's goof.




Oh please. Where did I absolve the ER in this? If you want to be critical of an argument, at least don't distort it because you don't like that it goes against yours.

People are so ready to criticize with rudimentary understandings of an incredibly complex and dynamic environment.

So, what, you're ready to ascribe singular fault to the ER, and yet then believe in the fact that this person, coming from W. Africa and seeing what happens when you declare you have Ebola, openly expressed his direct contact with the disease?

OK.

I am not the one distorting things, Where did I say you absolved them of anything. I did accuse you of being apologetic, which you were.

adjective: apologetic

regretfully acknowledging or excusing an offense or failure.
Oh boy. While you have an uncanny ability to find  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 12:05 pm : link
the definitions of words on the internet, I'm well aware of what it means.

I'll break it down simply why you distorted my words (since I wasn't being apologetic, nor excusing their failure).

I never excused them. Instead, I pointed out the significant folly in posing a mono-causal explanation as a failure by the ER. I pointed out that, quite often, extraneous information will be discarded if it's not deemed relevant to the diagnosis. And that this is often good in "most cases".

Now, what part of that isn't clear? The fact that I'm allowing for this to be a fuck up, since it didn't work in this case? Or the fact that this diagnosis strategy is useful because it allows for timely and quick responses to patients in need?

In case it wasn't clear, you can go back and re-read my 10:21. If that's being apologetic, perhaps you used the wrong definition?

Where, precisely, am I excusing a failure? If pointing out why these methods are used is excusing a failure, then perhaps a new word needs to be created.
If you knew the definition  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 12:15 pm : link
why change it to absolved then, which has an entirely different meaning?

This is just getting silly. I pointed out that I think they goofed whether you agree with me or take exception to that is fine. Whether I think it sounds like you were making excuses for the ER staff in doing so is irrelevant and should be equally fine. It's not that big a deal.
Because excusing an action is synonymous  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 12:20 pm : link
with absolving them of blame?

Believe it or not, you can use synonyms.

You chose to be facetious, and I simply countered you didn't understand what I was saying, even though it's right there...
Or we have different opinions  
steve in ky : 10/2/2014 12:22 pm : link
OK, you are right and I am wrong. Happy now?
I don't give a fuck about being right.  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 12:24 pm : link
I do mind when people willfully mis-represent a rather simple point, and keep doing so.
Not just the pregnant woman  
buford : 10/2/2014 12:26 pm : link
but two other people in that house in Liberia died from Ebola. I wouldn't be surprised that this guy got the heck out of there and back to the US thinking either he wouldn't get infected or if he was, would have a better chance of being treated successfully in the US.
In fact, people with your opinion could  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 12:26 pm : link
have coupled my post (in the vein that Dr. Knockboots is getting at) with the desire for either more medical professionals in the ER temporarily (during these outbreaks) so that this information is less likely to be glossed over.

Or explicit recommendations that certain indicators (Africa, or recent traveler) should have more extensive documentation histories by a hospital.
But, as I mentioned in my post, rarely do people  
kickerpa16 : 10/2/2014 12:28 pm : link
have any idea what goes on in an ER, and think that this is a simple slip-up, when it's incredibly complex.
oiy  
GeneInCal : 10/2/2014 12:52 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
I just heard on the radio news  
buford : 10/2/2014 1:07 pm : link
that Liberia will press charges against Duncan who apparently lied on his travel form before leaving the country.
Here is the story.  
manh george : 10/2/2014 1:41 pm : link
Yes, they are claiming he lied, and will charge him.

Liberia and other countries, it seems, are fighting to avoid becoming a huge quarantine zone. The consequences for northwest African economies is already dire. They don't need cowards like him to make it worse.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I just heard on the radio news  
spike : 10/2/2014 2:11 pm : link
In comment 11895501 buford said:
Quote:
that Liberia will press charges against Duncan who apparently lied on his travel form before leaving the country.


The likelihood of him surviving this in the US is far greater than in Liberia.

This won't be the only instance either.
yep.  
sb2003 : 10/2/2014 2:15 pm : link
The CDC is surely on top of things.
Link - ( New Window )
Yup  
manh george : 10/2/2014 2:29 pm : link
They are lying right there on top of the dirty sheets.
no big secret  
giantfanboy : 10/2/2014 4:21 pm : link
just google texas healthcare system
it is worst in the nation
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