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Zack Martin re-evaluation

bluegenes : 10/1/2014 10:48 am
from South Bend Tribune article covering ND football ... If Jints could get a draft mulligan, where should they have gone with 1st round pick?


Martin impresses

Zack Martin, Notre Dame's starting left tackle from 2010-13 has made quite an impression to date as a rookie offensive guard in the NFL.

So much so, in fact, that NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt would have drafted the Pinstripe Bowl MVP significantly higher if teams could do a draft do-over.

Martin, whose younger brother Nick is ND’s starting left guard, went 16th to the Cowboys in the real draft last May. The actual top five were 1. Jadeveon Clowney (DE), 2. Greg Robinson (OT), 3. Blake Bortles (QB), 4. Sammy Watkins (WR) and 5. Khalil Mack (OLB).

But in Brandt’s do-over draft, Brandt has Martin going fifth to the Oakland Raiders.

“The Cowboys took a lot of grief from their fans for passing on (Johnny) Manziel,” wrote Brandt, a former Dallas VP of personnel from 1960 to 1988. “And as tempting as it was for owner Jerry Jones to take the Texas A& M quarterback, the Cowboys stuck with their plan of building up their offensive line and took Martin with the 16th overall pick.

“Martin has paid immediate dividends, stepping in at right guard for the Cowboys from Day One. I thought he was a really good player coming out of Notre Dame (No. 14 in my Hot 100), but he has exceeded expectations. His pass protection is excellent, and his presence on the interior of the Cowboys' offensive line has helped them lead the league in rushing at 165.0 yards per game.”

The rest of the hypothetical top five are: 1. Bortles, 2. Jake Matthews (OT), 3. C.J. Mosley (LB) and 4. Watkins.
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Yes  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/1/2014 10:52 am : link
he was there. If Reese could have a do-over, he'd draft him. But that's only right now.

You only know what you know at the time you know it, ya know?

ODBJr may be the next Jerry Rice...
Haven't seen....  
Wonderphil11 : 10/1/2014 10:53 am : link
OBJ play yet but I'm sure the Giants are quite happy with their "Martin"....and his name is Richburg so it's really a non-issue.
For the hundredth time,  
Exit 172 : 10/1/2014 10:53 am : link
if the Giants take Martin, they don't take Richburg.

And Richburg has looked good so far.

If Beckham pans out, I think Reese did the right thing.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/1/2014 10:55 am : link
Can we get the fuck over Zack Martin already? We didn't draft him. Root for OBJ to get healthy and make plays like he's capable. He's going to make people forget about Martin as soon as he picks up the offense and contributes. Unfortunately, that means we're going to have these threads keep popping up for a few more weeks.
meh it's four games in  
Torrag : 10/1/2014 10:56 am : link
...the handwringing over the 2014 draft is premature. Typical fan overreaction that is the hallmark of BBI. It's not as if the team ignored the O-line. They drafted Weston in Round 2 and he's been pretty much plug-n-play at a high level to date.

.  
Gene : 10/1/2014 10:58 am : link
Quote:
Haven't seen....
Wonderphil11 : 10:53 am : link : reply
OBJ play yet but I'm sure the Giants are quite happy with their "Martin"....and his name is Richburg so it's really a non-issue.


Agree 100%. I admit that I wanted Martin, but I wanted to Giants to plug him in at LT and not LG. Since Richburg has shown he's capable at the LG position (at least up to this point in time) it seems to be a wash and obviously more beneficial to the Giants if Beckman turns out to be what the team hopes for.
RE: For the hundredth time,  
Fred-in-Florida : 10/1/2014 10:58 am : link
In comment 11893271 Exit 172 said:
Quote:
if the Giants take Martin, they don't take Richburg.

And Richburg has looked good so far.

If Beckham pans out, I think Reese did the right thing.


Additionally, Beatty, so far, has played much better than expected. So not taking Martin doesn't hurt as bad. If Beckham comes thru than Reese has done the right thing.
I feel like if Zach Martin went to Bowling Green  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2014 10:58 am : link
and not Notre Dame, there wouldn't be this fixation.
ODB  
lester : 10/1/2014 10:59 am : link
will be fine.
RE: Yes  
UConn4523 : 10/1/2014 11:00 am : link
In comment 11893266 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
he was there. If Reese could have a do-over, he'd draft him. But that's only right now.

You only know what you know at the time you know it, ya know?

ODBJr may be the next Jerry Rice...


4 games in and Reese would already do a do over? Have you watched our 2nd round pick at all?
Can people please wait until Beckham gets on the field  
Ira : 10/1/2014 11:02 am : link
and has a few games before evaluating what we should have done with out pick.
Giants should have drafted Martin...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/1/2014 11:03 am : link
and Terrell Davis, Zach Thomas, Tom Brady, Marques Colsten, Navarro Bowman, and Alfred Morris.

Amazing how we keep missing out on stud players year after year...
top WRs selected after Richburg  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 10/1/2014 11:03 am : link
Paul Richardson, Davante Adams, Cody Latimer, and Allen Robinson

We weren't going to take Martin and Richburg, no chance in hell. And as good as Martin has played, Richburg has looked excellent for us as well with less OL talent surrounding him than Martin has. I really don't know how to compare Martin vs. Richburg yet, but they've been similar caliber players through 4 weeks.

So this comes down to how much better Beckham is than Richardson/Adams/Latimer/Robinson. Through 4 weeks, none of those guys has torn up the league. None of the 4 seem to be outright busts either and all have shown potential, but there's a good chance that Beckham ends up being clearly better than those guys. I've been watching Beckham vids and reading his draft prospect stuff the last couple of weeks, and I'm so excited to get him back.
I agree Osi...  
Wonderphil11 : 10/1/2014 11:11 am : link
and would only add that if the Giants did take Martin in the first, there's no way of knowing if Richburg would have even been available in the 2nd or what WR's would have been available in the 3rd....if one pick is changed, the entire draft changes along with it and the dominos start to fall differently so it's really a pointless exercise.
RE: Giants should have drafted Martin...  
OC : 10/1/2014 11:12 am : link
In comment 11893300 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and Terrell Davis, Zach Thomas, Tom Brady, Marques Colsten, Navarro Bowman, and Alfred Morris.

Amazing how we keep missing out on stud players year after year...


Lol, ain't it though.
There's a Zach Martin-type in every draft.  
bceagle05 : 10/1/2014 11:14 am : link
Sometimes there are a bunch of them. He won't be the last good offensive lineman ever available to the Giants. Premium picks were used on Richburg and Pugh, and both are paying big dividends.
This is ridiculous.  
Curtis in VA : 10/1/2014 11:15 am : link
Eli has barely been touched the past two games. Richburg has been playing very well.

We have a future starter at Guard and a potentially game-breaking wideout. What exactly is the issue??
Also consider  
MagicMann : 10/1/2014 11:15 am : link
What the Cowboys and Eagles might have done if ODB was still available if we'd taken Martin? Could be some serious handwringing over that as well - it's all hindsight now. You play and win with the team you've got, not the one you could have had. We've won two super bowls in the last ten years despite all the "misses". I'll take that any day.
If Schwartz were healthy  
Joe in Cambridge : 10/1/2014 11:15 am : link
who would Martin be playing over?
You should  
OC : 10/1/2014 11:19 am : link
Save this thread for after the season not 4 weeks into it.

With that, I think we're all going to be happy with an ODB, Richburg, Kennard, Berhe, & Williams haul.
So sick of these Martin threads  
gmen9892 : 10/1/2014 11:21 am : link
You can do this with literally every draft, for every team, year after year.

Never mind the fact that Martin is also playing with a slew of other 1st rounders, but we have a LG in Richburg that is improving by the day and looks like a great player. But lets keep harping on us missing out on Martin, who already is on his way to the HOF after 4 games.

Can we wait until we see the guy we drafted over him play ONE snap before we say we should have drafted Martin?
RE: If Schwartz were healthy  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:22 am : link
In comment 11893322 Joe in Cambridge said:
Quote:
who would Martin be playing over?


Schwartz because he looked like shit when he WAS healthy.

Again, nothing against Beckham and I hope he becomes a star, but Martin was the guy they should have taken and still taken Richburg in Round 2. Eric Moore and Jumbo Elliott redux.
RE: .  
Arcanum : 10/1/2014 11:23 am : link
In comment 11893275 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Can we get the fuck over Zack Martin already? We didn't draft him. Root for OBJ to get healthy and make plays like he's capable. He's going to make people forget about Martin as soon as he picks up the offense and contributes. Unfortunately, that means we're going to have these threads keep popping up for a few more weeks.



Pretty much.. Not to mention, The Cowboys O line, haven't really been tested, outside of the 49ers. Evaluate Martin, when they go up against, better competition.
RE: Yes  
mrvax : 10/1/2014 11:24 am : link
In comment 11893266 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
he was there. If Reese could have a do-over, he'd draft him. But that's only right now.



No he wouldn't. It would be a dumb move. Martin = good guard and second round receiver. ODB = low first round receiver + Richburg, good guard.
They were never going to spend their top two picks on the OL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2014 11:24 am : link
They needed to come out of this draft with a WR.
People are raving about Richburg  
BSIMatt : 10/1/2014 11:26 am : link
We've scored 75 points in the last two games, Richburg and the oline are playing out of their mind and the Martin obsession continues.

I like Gil Brandt quite a bit, but he is still a Dallas Cowboy at heart, and when he is speaking on anything related to Dallas you just have to take that into consideration. I'm not saying he wouldn't have high praise of Martin regardless, I'm sure he would have, but he does see things a little brighter when he's looking at a guy in a Dallas uniform, there's just no question about it.

Also, Brandt should know better than to be doing redrafts 4 games into the year, it's an exercise in futility.
Victor,  
Curtis in VA : 10/1/2014 11:27 am : link
I think you're a good poster but you have to let this one go buddy. Been banging that drum way too hard. Richburg and Beckham were both great picks. The o-line is coming together fine without Martin.
And Eli is proving,as Phil Simms did years ago, and more recently  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:28 am : link
Tom Brady, that is you protect a good QB and give him a running game, he will make average receivers look good.
RE: For the hundredth time,  
jeff57 : 10/1/2014 11:29 am : link
In comment 11893271 Exit 172 said:
Quote:
if the Giants take Martin, they don't take Richburg.

And Richburg has looked good so far.

If Beckham pans out, I think Reese did the right thing.


Why not? Who's to say? It was the weakest position on the team and if Richburg was the best player on the board at 43, why wouldn't they have taken him.
This is ridiculous  
sjnyfan : 10/1/2014 11:29 am : link
A re-draft after 4 games? So in Brandt's do over would the Raiders be better? Would that have saved Dennis Allen's job? The crazy thing according to the article, in the do-over we take Gabe Jackson who has actually started every snap for Oakland and is holding his own. Sounds like it's one of the least of their many worries as an organization. Richburg goes 14th overall so essentially we got a 1st rd quality lineman anyway, even though it's ONLY 4 games. Either NFL.com needed new material or Gil Brandt is getting paid by the word and wanted to post something.

We're doing fine, Richburg is as well and let's see what OBJ can do for us with the 12 games still left in the regular season.
RE: Victor,  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:29 am : link
In comment 11893353 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
I think you're a good poster but you have to let this one go buddy. Been banging that drum way too hard. Richburg and Beckham were both great picks. The o-line is coming together fine without Martin.


Thanks. Can't resist another good sparring session over the draft. :-)
RE: RE: If Schwartz were healthy  
Wonderphil11 : 10/1/2014 11:29 am : link
In comment 11893341 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11893322 Joe in Cambridge said:


Quote:


who would Martin be playing over?



Schwartz because he looked like shit when he WAS healthy.

Again, nothing against Beckham and I hope he becomes a star, but Martin was the guy they should have taken and still taken Richburg in Round 2. Eric Moore and Jumbo Elliott redux.


And what makes you think Richburg would've been there...not too mention the extreme lack of playmakers on this team and the fact they would be waiting until the 3rd round to address this...oh yeah, what about Bromley, where do they find his replacement in this scenario....point is, when you state something as they "should have done", you should really think it through and understand the implications.
Phil Simms would've clotheslined his own mom for a standout WR.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/1/2014 11:29 am : link
His career suffered for never playing with one.
Here's  
sjnyfan : 10/1/2014 11:30 am : link
Brandt's do-over article
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: If Schwartz were healthy  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:32 am : link
In comment 11893369 Wonderphil11 said:
Quote:
In comment 11893341 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 11893322 Joe in Cambridge said:


Quote:


who would Martin be playing over?



Schwartz because he looked like shit when he WAS healthy.

Again, nothing against Beckham and I hope he becomes a star, but Martin was the guy they should have taken and still taken Richburg in Round 2. Eric Moore and Jumbo Elliott redux.



And what makes you think Richburg would've been there...not too mention the extreme lack of playmakers on this team and the fact they would be waiting until the 3rd round to address this...oh yeah, what about Bromley, where do they find his replacement in this scenario....point is, when you state something as they "should have done", you should really think it through and understand the implications.


1, Richburg was there, and 2, I am not a hindsight suggester of taking an OL in Rd1. I said it leading up to the draft and expressed this thought on draft day.
RE: Phil Simms would've clotheslined his own mom for a standout WR.  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:35 am : link
In comment 11893370 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
His career suffered for never playing with one.


Sure he would have, but the point is he was made it work. And they did try in 1987 drafting WRs in 3 of the first 4 rounds.
This is an exercise in futility  
steve in ky : 10/1/2014 11:35 am : link
Maybe if Martin would have here someone rolls on his ankle in training camp and he is out for the season, and ODB wouldn't have pulled a hamstring and be leading all rookies in receptions for another team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If Schwartz were healthy  
Wonderphil11 : 10/1/2014 11:35 am : link
In comment 11893379 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11893369 Wonderphil11 said:


Quote:


In comment 11893341 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 11893322 Joe in Cambridge said:


Quote:


who would Martin be playing over?



Schwartz because he looked like shit when he WAS healthy.

Again, nothing against Beckham and I hope he becomes a star, but Martin was the guy they should have taken and still taken Richburg in Round 2. Eric Moore and Jumbo Elliott redux.



And what makes you think Richburg would've been there...not too mention the extreme lack of playmakers on this team and the fact they would be waiting until the 3rd round to address this...oh yeah, what about Bromley, where do they find his replacement in this scenario....point is, when you state something as they "should have done", you should really think it through and understand the implications.



1, Richburg was there, and 2, I am not a hindsight suggester of taking an OL in Rd1. I said it leading up to the draft and expressed this thought on draft day.


and you're sure he would be there still once the picks change as you suggested...how so?
RE: RE: For the hundredth time,  
mrvax : 10/1/2014 11:37 am : link
In comment 11893366 jeff57 said:
Quote:

Why not? Who's to say? It was the weakest position on the team and if Richburg was the best player on the board at 43, why wouldn't they have taken him.


Jeff, I wanted Aaron Donald. However, I can see why the Gmen needed a WR. Specifically a true X receiver. You draft a PLAYMAKER with the #12 pick. A Donald or a Beckham. Not a guard. A great OLT prospect is fine also. They need an X receiver in the worst way. No one could have predicted the Giants would put up points with the alleged weak receiving corps we currently have.

I'm not. But I strongly believe in building from the lines  
Victor in CT : 10/1/2014 11:37 am : link
out. It all starts there. It's great to have skill players, but without strong line play you cannot win consistently.
Dallas OL  
fanatic : 10/1/2014 11:38 am : link
Here's a stat.

DeMarco Murray has 327 yards BEFORE being contacted this year. There are only two other RBs who have more then 327 yards period.

The OL is young and has only played 4 games together. They should only improve as the season continues.

Can't wait for the Seattle game in two weeks. If they pass that test, you can crown them the best in the business.
I only saw a little bit of him so far  
Andy in Halifax : 10/1/2014 11:39 am : link
but Khalil Mack seems like a home run for Oakland.
How anyone could say confidently  
BSIMatt : 10/1/2014 11:40 am : link
4 games into the season, without having watched Beckham play a snap that the Giants made a mistake in passing on Martin is just laughable.
Yep....these threads have to stop  
AnnapolisMike : 10/1/2014 11:40 am : link
You have one f'ing pick each round and the Giants took the guy they thought could help them the most. I bet every team in the league wishes they had drafted Cruz in the 7th round and would do that pick over too. It is just stupid.
RE: RE: RE: For the hundredth time,  
jeff57 : 10/1/2014 11:40 am : link
In comment 11893392 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 11893366 jeff57 said:


Quote:



Why not? Who's to say? It was the weakest position on the team and if Richburg was the best player on the board at 43, why wouldn't they have taken him.



Jeff, I wanted Aaron Donald. However, I can see why the Gmen needed a WR. Specifically a true X receiver. You draft a PLAYMAKER with the #12 pick. A Donald or a Beckham. Not a guard. A great OLT prospect is fine also. They need an X receiver in the worst way. No one could have predicted the Giants would put up points with the alleged weak receiving corps we currently have.


Had Evans been there, I would agree with you. And don't get me wrong, I liked Beckham. I just think, given his size, he was taken too high. I thought they should have taken Martin then, and still do.
This will end  
bceagle05 : 10/1/2014 11:40 am : link
as soon as Beckham catches his first pass. He's still a stranger to us, so people are longing for Martin.
The Giants....  
Wonderphil11 : 10/1/2014 11:41 am : link
addressed the Oline in the offseason which gave them flexibility to take OBJ....a top playmaker was at least as big a concern as the Oline IMO....turns out they addressed both along with an equally big concern which was Dline...win across the board as far as I'm concerned.
RE: .  
BigBluePrestige : 10/1/2014 11:41 am : link
In comment 11893275 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Can we get the fuck over Zack Martin already? We didn't draft him. Root for OBJ to get healthy and make plays like he's capable. He's going to make people forget about Martin as soon as he picks up the offense and contributes. Unfortunately, that means we're going to have these threads keep popping up for a few more weeks.


STFU ARCRASENAL
gimme a fucking break  
B in ALB : 10/1/2014 11:41 am : link
The Cowboys were a cunt hair away from taking Manziel and if the football people didn't beg Jerry to take Martin this wouldn't be an issue.

As of now the jury is still out on OBJ but one could definitely argue that the future looks bright if Richburg continues playing well.
RE: How anyone could say confidently  
mrvax : 10/1/2014 11:42 am : link
In comment 11893401 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
4 games into the season, without having watched Beckham play a snap that the Giants made a mistake in passing on Martin is just laughable.


I agree. You want to just grab those posters by the neck, knock on their wooden heads and yell, "Hello!!! Is any body home!!!???".
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