from South Bend Tribune article covering ND football ... If Jints could get a draft mulligan, where should they have gone with 1st round pick?
Martin impresses
Zack Martin, Notre Dame's starting left tackle from 2010-13 has made quite an impression to date as a rookie offensive guard in the NFL.
So much so, in fact, that NFL.com analyst Gil Brandt would have drafted the Pinstripe Bowl MVP significantly higher if teams could do a draft do-over.
Martin, whose younger brother Nick is ND’s starting left guard, went 16th to the Cowboys in the real draft last May. The actual top five were 1. Jadeveon Clowney (DE), 2. Greg Robinson (OT), 3. Blake Bortles (QB), 4. Sammy Watkins (WR) and 5. Khalil Mack (OLB).
But in Brandt’s do-over draft, Brandt has Martin going fifth to the Oakland Raiders.
“The Cowboys took a lot of grief from their fans for passing on (Johnny) Manziel,” wrote Brandt, a former Dallas VP of personnel from 1960 to 1988. “And as tempting as it was for owner Jerry Jones to take the Texas A& M quarterback, the Cowboys stuck with their plan of building up their offensive line and took Martin with the 16th overall pick.
“Martin has paid immediate dividends, stepping in at right guard for the Cowboys from Day One. I thought he was a really good player coming out of Notre Dame (No. 14 in my Hot 100), but he has exceeded expectations. His pass protection is excellent, and his presence on the interior of the Cowboys' offensive line has helped them lead the league in rushing at 165.0 yards per game.”
The rest of the hypothetical top five are: 1. Bortles, 2. Jake Matthews (OT), 3. C.J. Mosley (LB) and 4. Watkins.
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The best offensive line this franchise has had in 20 years contained a bunch of imports and castoffs from outside, and low draft picks. and Chris Snee.
If martin was really viewed as a cant miss LT he would have been picked higher
It allowed the Giants brass to concentrate on getting the team better by grabbing a much needed playmaker.
In the end, the Giants agreed with my take and DID NOT draft Martin when they had the chance. Those who think otherwise are not thinking the way the Giants do. And I happy they were wrong.
When teams start clamping down on the underneath stuff and OBJ makes them pay over the top, we won't be regretting Martin.
To be fair, the apt comparison is the Beckham and Richburg vs Martin and whatever WR would have been best in the second.
But in any case, we should see Beckham play a few games before making the comparison.
Pugh and Richburg. The confort level with these guys keeps climbing
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The Giants used their 2nd round pick to get a good young LG. Both players look like they will be solid NFL players and building blocks for their teams. The difference is that the Giants were able to wait on OL and take Odell Beckham in the first. I know people are frustrated waiting for OBJ, but they need to go back and look at his tape from LSU. The guy is a playmaker with great hands and will become a weapon and fan favorite very soon.
To be fair, the apt comparison is the Beckham and Richburg vs Martin and whatever WR would have been best in the second.
But in any case, we should see Beckham play a few games before making the comparison.
That's correct. I'm a fan of the Beckham pick, hamstring injuries be damned. Just for fun, the WRs drafted in round 2 after the Richburg pick:
Paul Richardson
Davante Adams
Cody Latimer
Allen Robinson
Jarvis Landry
You don't take a guard that high, you just don't. You try to hit a homerun with a game changing type player, which OBJ could potentially be.
The Giants can easily grab a guard next year in the draft, that is a guarantee. There is no guarantee the potential of an OBJ player might be there when they pick.
The only thing we have to do in the draft of 2015 is try and spot the next OLT in mid rounds to be coached up over a 2 year period. We need solid backups for the Oline, that's it.
Hopefully the Giants can concentrate on linebackers and safeties next draft. Sucks that Cooper Taylor never got to see the field this year so we still do not know what we have in him.
ZM is part of a good young OL core in Dallas, but their D is held together with Silly Putty and baling wire and have likely alrady played their best.
And theres always the jerruh running that '15 draft.
Lets be thankful for what we have seen hope what we've seen these last 2 games can continue against the better competition.
GO BIG BLUE!
Gun down those (dirty) 'Birds' Sunday.
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I think you're a good poster but you have to let this one go buddy. Been banging that drum way too hard. Richburg and Beckham were both great picks. The o-line is coming together fine without Martin.
Thanks. Can't resist another good sparring session over the draft. :-)
It isn't really a sparring session when you're beating a dead horse.
And Richburg has looked good so far.
If Beckham pans out, I think Reese did the right thing.
I've read this countless times and I disagree. Why would taking Martin have prevented us taking Richburg in the 2nd? Our line was abysmal last year so taking 2 stud linemen back to back wouldn't have been so crazy at all. Then take a WR in the 3rd. I am anxious to see what Beckham brings and I think, if healthy, he can be a good to very good WR. That being said, I would've taken Martin all day over him. You don't pass up a Pro Bowl type lineman who can play all 5 positions on the line especially coming off a year where your o-line was pitiful.
They NEEDED to protect Eli and keep him upright.
They can and should continue to prioritize the OL over the skill position players this offseason. Don't let what happened the previous years ever happen again.
Eli is our best player and the only true advantage we have in this division. Protect him at all costs.
They NEEDED to protect Eli and keep him upright.
They can and should continue to prioritize the OL over the skill position players this offseason. Don't let what happened the previous years ever happen again.
Eli is our best player and the only true advantage we have in this division. Protect him at all costs.
This. And its not just about Eli. A better running game helps your QB and while the line has been better going Martin then Richberg would have been fine with me.
I guess Young was dumb for drafting Elliot and Roberts who anchored two SuperBowl lines years ago in the same draft. No he wasn't
Anyone who says that they didn't desperately need a #1 wideout are fools with no knowledge either of the team and it's drafting history, or of the NFL game.
The stage was set to protect Eli early on, and was wisely added to with Richberg. I would expect them to draft another combo Guard/Tackle next year if the value is there. The Giants take the long view, and it's absolutely the way to go.
Probably not because of who they got in round 2.
Given a do-over they draft WR because its a huge need today. My guess is that guy from LSU
Apparently you do when you just drafted one the year prior(Pugh) and see offensive line value in the 2nd round(Richburg).
I'm surprised comments like this are still trickling in after the recent performances by Beatty, Richburg and co. The Giants offense is humming along without Zack Martin(and yes, without Beckham).
The entire preseason, when the offense was in a funk and Beckham was MIA all we heard was that the line was a mess, and that the Giants didn't put high enough priority on fixing it, and instead spent their top pick on a WR.
The Giants really haven't prioritized the OL over skill position position players. They grabbed Schwartz and used a second round pick on Richburg, but the crown jewel of their off-season acquisitions was the #12 pick, and they went WR.
Yes, the offense has looked strong the last two weeks without this #1 WR, but so too has the offensive line without the Giants top offensive free agent in Schwartz.
Anyone who says that they didn't desperately need a #1 wideout are fools with no knowledge either of the team and it's drafting history, or of the NFL game.
BMac, this is so true. Need proof? Well, just who did the NY Giants decide to pick? Martin or Beckham? Some posters just don't get it. It's almost a miracle the Giants offense has done this well w/o a replacement for Nicks.
If the Giants kept Gilbride and drafted Martin, they'd be lucky to average 10 offensive points per game.
And let's not presume the OL is "fixed" because of the offense has looked just this year. One four game stretch does not outweigh the previous year plus of dog crap play. They need to continue to address the OL otherwise they're asking for another disaster in the near future.
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if you keep believing that, you are fooling yourselves.
They NEEDED to protect Eli and keep him upright.
They can and should continue to prioritize the OL over the skill position players this offseason. Don't let what happened the previous years ever happen again.
Eli is our best player and the only true advantage we have in this division. Protect him at all costs.
This. And its not just about Eli. A better running game helps your QB and while the line has been better going Martin then Richberg would have been fine with me.
I guess Young was dumb for drafting Elliot and Roberts who anchored two SuperBowl lines years ago in the same draft. No he wasn't
It was Moore and Elliott taken the same year in 1988. And Moore, IMO, can only be considered a failed pick. Never lived up to his #10 overall pick (again, a guard that high is not a good pick). Was even replaced in SB 25 by Bob Kratch at halftime I believe. And was removed from other games as well by Parcells for effort.
And let's not presume the OL is "fixed" because of the offense has looked just this year. One four game stretch does not outweigh the previous year plus of dog crap play. They need to continue to address the OL otherwise they're asking for another disaster in the near future.
Did I say otherwise, anywhere? No point in responding to this noise until you actually read what I wrote. My statement simply lays out why they weren't going to take Martin, or any interior OL, with the # 12 pick, period.
The amount of hand wringing over this dude is unreal.
You would draft both of them, even after having had signed: Geoff Schwartz, J.D. Walton, and John Jerry? Who's riding the bench?
That would be a waste of dollars and picks that could be used elsewhere.
and specials as a gunner.
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and likely have our OL issues solved for the duration of Eli's tenure. One major problem with that theory is how do you know the 'Boys don't grab Richburg with Martin gone? I mean Headhunter here is giving Richburg a first round grade already; maybe the Cowboys' scouts saw that too?
You would draft both of them, even after having had signed: Geoff Schwartz, J.D. Walton, and John Jerry? Who's riding the bench?
That would be a waste of dollars and picks that could be used elsewhere.
No one is going to listen. Just a bunch of non-compos.
I don't see any long term problem with drafting 3 premium OL (including Pugh) over a 2 year span. OK if they all turn out to be pro bowl quality OL maybe that's a cap problem 4 years down the road.... In the mean while you have great OL depth and youth and no need for Reynolds/Brewer - two at best marginal roster guys - on the 53 at all.
If there's anything to learn at all from these past two games it's that protecting Eli and having a solid running game is more important than shiny hood ornaments like Beckham. Of course I hope Beckham proves me wrong, too!