This just continues to bother me. Over the last three seasons, going back to 2012, the Giants have managed to be held without a score in a game on 4 different occasions. 4 games is not a huge sample size over that period but I just can't wrap my mind around how an offense, with a legitimate QB, that can look unstoppable at times can accomplish this.
I didn't have the time to look at every team in the NFL to see how that number of shut-outs matches up to other franchises, but I did take a look at the Jaguars, Raiders and Bucs. Right now those three teams are awful (and have been awful for a while) and have a combined record of 1-16 . . . yet between all three of them they have been shut-out a total of just one time over the last three seasons. Just once combined compared to 4 times for the Giants alone.
For me, this used to be one of my biggest knocks on Kevin Gilbride. I didn't believe that a team with any kind of above average QB could ever be held scoreless in today's NFL where the emphasis is completely on offense and running up the scoreboard. So I blamed the OC whenever the Giants got blown out because I never thought that the talent level on this offense ever came close to approaching the mediocrity of teams like the Bucs, Jets or Jaguars.
But now with a new OC I'm starting to wonder if maybe there is something else going on. Coughlin and Eli are the only static variables left, and I can't help but think that the inconsistency that we've been seeing with the offense over the last few years may be more linked to Coughlin than previously thought.
I'm really trying my best not to overreact to this shut-out. I understand that it was against the Eagles, and its going to sting a lot more than usual and that we're all searching for answers around here. But man . . . the Giants have had some really brutal, embarrasing losses in recent years. I think it's fair to stop and ask what has the head coach's role been in all of them.
Can't stay out of 3rd and long.
Why do you ask? You just saw it happen.
0 points, no adjustments, no spark at any time. 4 big games taken right up the ass with nothing to be done about it on the sideline.
2 amazing superbowl championship runs, yet these blowouts continue. where is the confidence? where is the team support?
tuck is gone, osi, strahan, jacobs, bradshaw - who left is going to become that leader? Rolle, Beason on defense - they act like it. Who on offense though? If it isn't our calm cool and collected QB and never will be, who should it be?
Allow 8 sacks, have touchdowns called back due to penalties, commit penalties that moves your team backwards and set up 3rd 19, 25, 10,20, 10,21 (not even exaggerating) and give up the ball on third down...
And by not scoring any safeties field goals or touchdowns. That will get you zero points.
Whatever makes you feel better when you look at pre game pictures though Matt.
Allow 8 sacks, have touchdowns called back due to penalties, commit penalties that moves your team backwards and set up 3rd 19, 25, 10,20, 10,21 (not even exaggerating) and give up the ball on third down...
And by not scoring any safeties field goals or touchdowns. That will get you zero points.
All true. The Giants are and have been a team that is perhaps the most inept NFL team when it comes to scoring defensive and special teams touchdowns. The Giants only score when the offense puts points on the board.
I have been a staunch Coughlin supporter but that right there is a track record of ineptitude that may have him in line to be replaced.
This is funny because if the score had been reversed, you'd probably be talking about how "focused" and "determined" Eli looked while the Eagles were yapping all week.
Link - ( New Window )
Both the line and the WRs look horrible...
Same here, was at both of those debacles also. I actually thought about going to nashville when they play the titans but i could be a bad omen for them.
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Film breakdown of what happened: Link - ( New Window )
Both the line and the WRs look horrible...
Even when Eli got blocking (rarely) the receivers weren't getting open. Some of the sacks, bad running plays, and pressures are just horrible communication by the offensive line, quite a few are just Jerry, Walton, Pugh, and Donnell failing to sustain any type of block.
It also looks like the Eagles knew what was coming on multiple plays and were recognizing routes and plays. 3 step drops work great if the first read gets open. I think part of them not getting open was the Eagles had a pretty good idea of what they intended to do on most plays and the receivers weren't beating man coverage or double coverage.
The most concerning part to me is Giants offense was predictable and easy to figure out for the Eagles. No adjustments were made at all to combat that the Eagles new what was coming. The offensive line can improve, the receivers can beat their man often times, but if the offense is predictable after 6 games that is pretty concerning.
4 times in less than 2 1/2 years is insane. For many teams in the league, you have to go back over 20 years to find 4 shutouts.
The Carolina one I was more annoyed and was kind of similar to this Philly game in terms of matchups ("The Carolina secondary is so banged up, Eli is gonna have a field day!") Just like the banged up Online of Philly was gonna get manhandeldd by our D line and vice versa going into this week...
After Seattle in December of 2013 and Philly in October 2014, it's become quite the norm. Pathetic.
Quote:
In comment 11920136 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
Film breakdown of what happened: Link - ( New Window )
Both the line and the WRs look horrible...
Even when Eli got blocking (rarely) the receivers weren't getting open. Some of the sacks, bad running plays, and pressures are just horrible communication by the offensive line, quite a few are just Jerry, Walton, Pugh, and Donnell failing to sustain any type of block.
It also looks like the Eagles knew what was coming on multiple plays and were recognizing routes and plays. 3 step drops work great if the first read gets open. I think part of them not getting open was the Eagles had a pretty good idea of what they intended to do on most plays and the receivers weren't beating man coverage or double coverage.
The most concerning part to me is Giants offense was predictable and easy to figure out for the Eagles. No adjustments were made at all to combat that the Eagles new what was coming. The offensive line can improve, the receivers can beat their man often times, but if the offense is predictable after 6 games that is pretty concerning.
I don't know if it was predictability of the offense or just a lack of execution or worse yet the inability to execute.. After looking at that in-depth article of those plays.. I am actually scared for the remainder of the year... Predictability can be solved, the inability to execute needs a long time to fix...
its kind of like...free.
I don't know if it was predictability of the offense or just a lack of execution or worse yet the inability to execute.. After looking at that in-depth article of those plays.. I am actually scared for the remainder of the year... Predictability can be solved, the inability to execute needs a long time to fix...
See I take the different view. They have proven they can beat scrub defenses like the Redskins or Falcons so they can clearly execute vs inferior competition. They always talk about the great week of practice as well. They may get outplayed and not be more talented than good teams, who knows. I was just surprised that the Giants had no answers to teams playing press man, doubling Donnel and Cruz, and loading the box. They tried and failed at the 1 RB screen pass, never tried any WR screens. The Giants never even tried firing a bullet pass to Beckham/Cruz/Randle at the snap when there was off coverage and hoping one of them could get a few yards one on one. The offense got nothing going in the flats, or running outside either.
There has to be ways to attack an over aggressive defense that has 8 guys in the box every snap, and I didn't think running outside with two tight end sets or trying intermediate throws when they can't block were the answer.
No gameplan was going to win that game based on the effort and talent the Giants put on the field but surely they could have done better.
My theory, just plain out coached in every phase.. You did not prepare at all. Made for a good reason why in the end of this season I wouldn't mind if the Giants let the entire coaching staff go, including Coughlin.. They needed to get these players to perform in these types of situations. That was a division game, no excuses for what happened. Zero points should not have happened period..
Exactly.. It goes back to what I said, they were out coached! You have a inept DC in Perry Fewell, you have a rookie OC in McAdoo, and then you have a HC that is on his last days. I'm thinking not much could have been said that they haven't heard already. McAdoo was lost, Fewell had no answers with his shitty soft zones, and TC is losing it. Add those things up with Reese's Oline of scrubs and there is your answer on why zero points happened.
4 times in less than 2 1/2 years is insane. For many teams in the league, you have to go back over 20 years to find 4 shutouts.
Marshall, thanks for looking this up. It definitely accents my main point, which is that complete shut-outs have not been a common occurrence in recent years in the NFL, except for in the case of the Giants.
Of course we can go minute by minute through a game and find all of the missed opportunities and access the circumstances that lead to the final score. But the fact remains that what the Giants did (or failed to do) on Sunday night is very rare in the NFL - and they've managed to do it on 4 separate occasions since 2012.
I guess the real question isn't so much about how does one specific game transpire to lead to 0 points on the scoreboard, but more about how does one team (with a seemingly proficient offense) manage to do something so uncommon multiple times over the span of just a couple dozen games. It's something that I find a bit tough to just disregard entirely.
Your receiver blows out his knee on a 4th down pass...
with less than 2 minutes left in the game, the Giants finally cross midfield again.....4th and 4, your qb gets sacked with a 3 man rush, made up of scrubs....
If it happens against Dallas we can all move on to prime time TV and Halloween decorations...
This is a really good point, and one of the reasons the shut out doesn't bother me.
The ass whipping bothers me, but the shut out doesn't so much.
I'll take a beatdown like this, where you have very little choice but to learn and move on from it, rather than lose a higher scoring nail-biter in the waning moments
Even as a fan you can feel it. When that 0 is still there into the 2nd half, it feels increasingly harder to get rid of. If it's into the 4th, you have to go for a TD.. but at the point in the game we were at, I think you kick the FG and just put something on the board to get the goose egg off your shoulders.
It seems meaningless but there's absolutely a psychological factor there that I think people are understating.
I'll take a beatdown like this, where you have very little choice but to learn and move on from it, rather than lose a higher scoring nail-biter in the waning moments
So, you would rather lose 27-0 than 27-26? Not me, I prefer the Giants being competitive against an NFC East rival, or any team, rather than casually dismissing the loss as an "oh well, this shit happens". A loss is a loss is a loss, but I much prefer seeing something that says " we can beat these guys".