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Last 25 games we are 11& 14. Lost by 17+ 9 times. Shutout 4

BlueHurricane : 10/14/2014 6:30 pm
This has been discussed in other threads to a degree but it really deserves its own thread. That is futility that rivals the worst in the league.

MOM said in the another that there have been 11 shutouts in the entire league over that time and we account for 4 of them. 1/3rd of the leagues shutouts over a 25 game stretch are from our team that has a possible hall of fame coach and possible hall of fame QB. Something is just very weird about that. Feast or famine to to the extreme.

I have been a huge Coughlin supporter but those numbers right there have really shaken my confidence in him. Too many times we just do not show up.
Cowher in 2015!!!  
gmen1234 : 10/14/2014 6:40 pm : link
Who's with me????

Fuck 2 superbowls in 7 years. I want consistency!
why do people  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 6:45 pm : link
have to be asinine extremists.

Isn't it possible another coach could have won two super bowls and been consistently competitive in the non-Super Bowl win seasons? Is that just inconceivable?

Not sure why it's one or the other. Like the choices are only a) two super bowls in 5 years with awful lethargic, embarrassing, clueless, stretches in between or consistency with no super bowls.

as fans, shouldn't we want both?

is it unrealistic?
I know I was only half serious.  
gmen1234 : 10/14/2014 6:49 pm : link
I don't really buy into the coach being responsible for a bunch of professionals being flat. Scheming and game planning yes but Coughlin wasn't the reason that we were manhandled at both lines
and I've never  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 6:50 pm : link
been a fire coughlin guy (and I'm still probably not), but when a team is that unprepared and that unmotivated in all facets of the game this frequently, that's usually what happens (coach gets fired).
Coughlin needs to stop coaching those offensive lineman  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 10/14/2014 6:51 pm : link
To get pushed back into Eli every play.
This frequently? The last 4 games they were prepared.  
gmen1234 : 10/14/2014 6:52 pm : link
They were a special teams fuckup away from winning four in a row.
read the headline  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 6:56 pm : link
Quote:
Last 25 games we are 11& 14. Lost by 17+ 9 times. Shutout 4


losing by more than 17 points 9 times in the past 25 games with being shut out four time I'd say is unprepared and unmotivated "this often"
Part Of The Reason  
Trainmaster : 10/14/2014 7:13 pm : link
may be the Coughlin wants to try to win all the games, even when we're significantly behind.

As some others pointed out, Parcells (and maybe most coaches) want to get the zero off the board ASAP.

The 4 shutouts, although troubling, are overshadowed by the losing by 17+ 9 times.

OL is a big part of it I think... 25 is roughly a season & a half  
GloryDayz : 10/14/2014 7:21 pm : link
OL has been an issue over that period.
This team has been completely overhauled in some areas...  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:21 pm : link
between 25 games ago and now. Completely different teams.

After starting 0-6 last year, we finished 7-3. I guess I could turn around and say well okay, in the last 16 games we are 10-6, with only 3 losses of 17 or more and 2 shutouts. That doesn't sound as bad, does it?

Now, my point isn't to say there aren't problems, or that the last 16 games everything has been fine, or getting shut out is acceptable.

My point is that just citing those statistics doesn't really mean much without context.
Love the excuse makers.  
RDJR : 10/14/2014 7:24 pm : link
The recent trends suck and TC is the coach. If you are enjoying this as a fan, by all means continue to defend these performances and the coach. I for one, think it sucks and agree that fans should expect to win and not get blown away. Winning Super Bowls and being a decent squad year in and year out do not have to be mutually exclusive.
Who's making excuses?  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:27 pm : link
?
___________  
Ninja : 10/14/2014 7:31 pm : link
I might not be a fire Coughlin guy, but i sure as hell thought you jackasses got a little carried away for having beat the three teams we did.
RE: ___________  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:33 pm : link
In comment 11920464 Ninja said:
Quote:
I might not be a fire Coughlin guy, but i sure as hell thought you jackasses got a little carried away for having beat the three teams we did.


You have to cut some people some slack on that, in my opinion. They have sat through some miserable football for 18 months, and it felt good to win again and look like they were on the up and up.

They are "fans", after all.
Oof.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/14/2014 7:34 pm : link
Those numbers are ugly.
RE: Oof.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:37 pm : link
In comment 11920469 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Those numbers are ugly.


Those numbers, while ugly, are skewed.

Why go back 25 games? Well, exactly 25 games ago was the third to last game of 2012, in which we got blown out and shut out by Atlanta. If you're comparing teams, why not just use all of 2012?

Hence me saying that this team now is SO different than that team. That team had an ageing vet core, who other than Eli and Rolle are COMPLETELY gone. We ran an offense that couldn't be more the polar opposite than what we run now. This is a different team, period.
Now, Joe's point about there being 11 shut outs over that time period,  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:39 pm : link
with us owning 4 of them is wild and stands out, I agree.

But these are completely different teams and this is going to take time.

I don't think it's fair to compare this to that at this juncture.
RE: RE: Oof.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/14/2014 7:41 pm : link
In comment 11920475 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 11920469 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


Those numbers are ugly.



Those numbers, while ugly, are skewed.

Why go back 25 games? Well, exactly 25 games ago was the third to last game of 2012, in which we got blown out and shut out by Atlanta. If you're comparing teams, why not just use all of 2012?

Hence me saying that this team now is SO different than that team. That team had an ageing vet core, who other than Eli and Rolle are COMPLETELY gone. We ran an offense that couldn't be more the polar opposite than what we run now. This is a different team, period.


It paints the picture that the last 1.5 years or so have been below average (to be kind). It's a fair stat. And I would hope that the team is alittle bit different than the 2012, and especially the 2013 teams. Not good teams, again, to be kind. :)
completely  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 7:41 pm : link
different teams, but same coach.

25 was obviously picked as the game of the last shut out, I don't think that's skewed or sneaky about why 25 was picked.

I don't think the point was, correct if I'm wrong OP, that Giants stink (because your'e right the team is very different now than 25 games ago), I think it was a knock on Coughlin.
RE: Oof.  
Giants4246 : 10/14/2014 7:50 pm : link
In comment 11920469 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Those numbers are ugly.


Very ugly and disturbing, there are some bad fucking losses in those 25 games.
I posted 25 games because that what was discussed on WFAN  
BlueHurricane : 10/14/2014 7:52 pm : link
While I was on my long trek today.

If you want to go back to include the entire 2012 season it is just as ugly if not worse. Add 5 more defeats of 17+ points and one of 14.

So 38 games. 19&19. Lost by 17+ 14 times and shutout 4 (scored 3 once in a 26-3 loss)
If the 25th game is in fact the ATL game  
Giants4246 : 10/14/2014 7:54 pm : link
Then its a good spot to go off of because the Giants were 8-5 going into that game and in control of their own destiny. They got blown out that day, blown out the following weekend by the ravens and blew out the 4-11 eagles the last game of the season. Finished 9-7 and lost the division to the fucking redskins.
No worries  
natefit : 10/14/2014 7:56 pm : link
We are NOT making the playoffs and then TC will have a big ring of honor retirement ceremony.
Either way,  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 7:56 pm : link
The team is different. That was then, this is now. This team is 3-3.
This Sunday is going to say a lot about the path of this season.  
BlueHurricane : 10/14/2014 7:59 pm : link
God forbid they lay another egg.
Yes it is.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 8:01 pm : link
I look at is this way... If they win this Sunday, they head into the bye at 4-3, 2-1 in the division, and all division road games over with.

Would you have signed up for that at the start of the season?

Yes, the blowout sucked. Plenty of our squads prior to 2012 suffered blowout losses, many times in winning seasons. Let's give it a little patience and let this play out. 3-3, 1-1 in the division is right where I thought we'd be at this time, maybe even a little better after what I saw in preseason. How about you?
Yes ... it is a disconcerting ...  
Mike in Raleigh : 10/14/2014 8:05 pm : link
trend ... Let's hope it DOESN'T CONTINUE !!!!
This sunday is a must win  
Giants4246 : 10/14/2014 8:09 pm : link
And if the giants play to their ability they will beat dallas. If the line can't block and murray runs wild on us and witten does what he usually does to the giants then we're fucked.
After week 1 I figured we were looking at 2-4 at best.  
BlueHurricane : 10/14/2014 8:12 pm : link
They rebounded and things were looking up. Sunday was a punch in the nuts.

That said we needed a split going into last week. Now to me Sunday is a must win to have any hope at the division. If we can do that then a split with the Colts/Hawks and a split 9ers/Cows won't kill us and we can be in position to make a run at the playoffs down the stretch.
RE: Cowher in 2015!!!  
LAXin : 10/14/2014 8:17 pm : link
In comment 11920353 gmen1234 said:
Quote:
Who's with me????

Fuck 2 superbowls in 7 years. I want consistency!


First of all, it's 2 Super Bowls in 11 years. We cannot pretend that the Coughlin era started in 2007.

More importantly, my fear is that if the status quo continues for another 5 years, then we will be proudly chanting "2 Super Bowls in 16 years!"
10-6, does look good....  
Doomster : 10/14/2014 8:28 pm : link
But how many of those 10 wins were against teams with winning records?

RE: This sunday is a must win  
RDJR : 10/14/2014 8:45 pm : link
In comment 11920554 Giants4246 said:
Quote:
And if the giants play to their ability they will beat dallas. If the line can't block and murray runs wild on us and witten does what he usually does to the giants then we're fucked.


This is what I don't get. What leads you to believe that we will beat Dallas if we play to our ability? Have you watched the games? I hope we win as much as anyone, but if you watch football week in and week out, not just the Giants, I don't get how statements like that can be made.
Lots of losses  
old man : 10/14/2014 8:51 pm : link
because players suck.
Not picking on him, but did you see Foles run backwards faster than Jenkins run forward, or little Sproles breaking tackles?
That's a front office-excess loyalty/ bad drafting/key injury problem.
Don't get the relevance of the OP  
JoefromPa : 10/14/2014 9:14 pm : link
for this year's team. Giants were a bad team last year, everyone knows that. They are 3-3 this year in what is considered a rebuilding year.

I don't see where the 16 games from last year need to be linked to this team. Two different teams, different OC.
Really? You sound like TC. New year,  
RDJR : 10/14/2014 9:24 pm : link
new team. Same head coach and most of the same staff. Coaches would never be let go if that was the standard.
We're talking about being shut out, yes?  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:26 pm : link
Do you agree that we ran a completely different offense with a completely different offensive coordinator last year?

That is why.
So that's how you evaluate coaches?  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 9:31 pm : link
each incarnation of their team?

Ok. that's new.

And since when is this supposed to be a rebuilding year?

In the NFL you don't really rebuild IMO while you still have your QB. That definition is kind of loose IMO, but I don't think the Giants would classify themselves as rebuilding.
The offensive line was shot. The RB's were shot...  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:32 pm : link
half of the WR's were shot. There are a ton of new players, a new coach, and a brand new offensive playbook.

What do you consider rebuilding?
Cruz, Randle, Beatty, Eli, and Pugh who was a rookie last year.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:33 pm : link
That's all that's left of last year's offense.
I am not laying this all on Coughlin  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 10/14/2014 9:34 pm : link
and would rather he stay as our coach. My issue is Reese and also Coughlin's stubbornness in keeping his assistants. I also think our strength and conditioning program has serious problems.
And now you can scratch Cruz off that list.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:34 pm : link
.
The Giants  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 9:40 pm : link
have 20 players on their 53-man roster from 2014.

it's about average, maybe slightly above

The Eagles have 17.
The Cowboys have 17

those two teams are 5 - 1.

The Cardinals have 20 players on their 53-man roster from 2014

this type of turnover is not unique in this era.

just my opinion, but I feel like unless you replace your franchise QB, or try to, you're not really rebuilding.
RE: So that's how you evaluate coaches?  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/14/2014 9:40 pm : link
In comment 11920799 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
each incarnation of their team?

Ok. that's new.

And since when is this supposed to be a rebuilding year?

In the NFL you don't really rebuild IMO while you still have your QB. That definition is kind of loose IMO, but I don't think the Giants would classify themselves as rebuilding.


Agree. Don't see why it matters if it's a different OC, or not. Same regime. Same GM. Same Head Coach. Same franchise QB. It's all under their umbrella.
I'm talking about starters, specifically on offense.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:43 pm : link
We have four starters on our team that played in 2012 (now 3).

If you don't think we're rebuilding the offense, I don't know what to tell you.

The first indicator is that there is a new offensive coordinator and brand new playbook.

Do Dallas or Philly have that?
Excuse me, 2013. We only have 3 from 2012 (now 2).  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:44 pm : link
Hence my point that this team is different, VERY different, than either team and shouldn't be judged against them. Specifically on offense.
You don't go out and do what we did in FA if you're "rebuilding"  
arcarsenal : 10/14/2014 9:44 pm : link
This was not meant to be a rebuilding year. This was meant to be a year where we made the playoffs again.
We had to do what we did because we had so many holes to fill.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:46 pm : link
We needed three new O-linemen, a new TE, new RB's, and new WR's.

What else were we going to do?

I can't believe some of you don't remember how broken this team was.
Anyways, we're too far apart.  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:47 pm : link
You guys think this team is the same as 2012 and 2013. I disagree. I'll just leave it at that.
And I'd just like to add...  
Britt in VA : 10/14/2014 9:49 pm : link
the term "rebuilding" does not equal forfeiting the playoffs. You're trying to make the playoffs every year, and can. That's parity.

4 starters out of 11 is a HUGE turnover. Rebuilding.
How broken this team WAS?? ?  
Greg from LI : 10/14/2014 9:49 pm : link
I don't know any other way to describe a team that just got absolutely humiliated by a division rival in a prime time game.
The team was awful last year.  
arcarsenal : 10/14/2014 9:51 pm : link
But every year this team struggles, people try to write it off as a rebuilding year. I've heard this shit literally almost every other season.

Every team has holes they need to fill. The goal was clearly to get back into the playoffs this year. Ownership has made it pretty clear that so many of these non-playoff seasons are unacceptable. If we miss them again this year, heads are going to roll.

If we were going to rebuild and start over, Coughlin wouldn't still be here. They're trying to win now.
I'm not saying it's the same  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 9:54 pm : link
team, of course it's not, the NFL in this era has an influx/turnover of 15 - 20 players on average per team per year.

If you tell me replacing Diehl, Boothe, Snee, Brandon Myers, Cordle, Andre Brown, Brandon Jacobs, Bear Pascoe, even Nicks is a "rebuilding" then I disagree it's simply upgrading personnel.

Injuries are completely different. A rebuilding is planned IMO, not find a replacement for Jennings and Cruz on the fly.

The OC is a legit point if the offense isn't philosophically similar, but the Eagles replaced their OC and their QB in a total 180, didn't miss a beat, so it's not an excuse to me.

If you evaluate the coach, you don't do so by the different incarnations of their team. the Coach's 4 shutouts and whatever losses by 17 games or more is an indictment of Coughlin.

Plain and simple. The Super Bowls are a credit to him, but the wild swings in results are too much.
whatever losses by 17 games  
pjcas18 : 10/14/2014 9:55 pm : link
should be by 17 points..
something is off with this team  
Greg from LI : 10/14/2014 9:58 pm : link
It's not simply talent - they did manage to go 7-9 last year and 3-3 thus far this year so somehow they manage to win some games. They're not Jacksonville.....yet somehow they get blown out about as often as Jacksonville does. There's something going on here and damned if I know why it's happening, but it is.
RE: Cowher in 2015!!!  
Victor in CT : 10/15/2014 8:08 am : link
In comment 11920353 gmen1234 said:
Quote:
Who's with me????

Fuck 2 superbowls in 7 years. I want consistency!


NOBODY! Fuck Cowher he's a has been, out of the game too long and his teams couldn't finish.
Arc, you nailed it....  
Doomster : 10/15/2014 8:12 am : link
You don't go out and do what we did in FA if you're "rebuilding"
arcarsenal : 10/14/2014 9:44 pm : link : reply
This was not meant to be a rebuilding year. This was meant to be a year where we made the playoffs again.

That was the attitude of the front office....they were delusional to think this team was only a few players away from making the playoffs.....the OL was shot.....we had no TE.....we had no starting RB......our #1 receiver was no longer the player he once was....we had no linebackers, so we took a chance on a linebacker with a history of not staying on the field......we cut a safety to spite our face, and are now paying for it.....we have replaced DLmen with players that are not on the same level as the guys we let go.....this offense is a work in progress.....to think this is a playoff team, is a possibility, as a wild card, if all the other wild cards falter....but it would be a one and done playoff team.....over the course of the last two seasons, this team can't seem to beat teams with winning records.....how can you be a playoff team if you can't do that?
RE: and I've never  
D_Giants : 10/15/2014 5:43 pm : link
In comment 11920364 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
been a fire coughlin guy (and I'm still probably not), but when a team is that unprepared and that unmotivated in all facets of the game this frequently, that's usually what happens (coach gets fired).


Unmotivated is the key. How on earth could the Giants players be unmotivated in the biggest game of their season thus far. This was a game that would have put this 2014 team on the map, and they go out there sleepwalking. Was it because the Eagles were wearing all black uniforms?
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