who had been treating someone who has died from Ebola within the last week would get on to a commercial flight.
If this nurse survives, some kind of punitive action needs to be taken. I really think was negligence of the worst kind; wanton disregard.
If she was asymptomatic when she traveled, how can anyone charge her for anything beyond doing what normal people do...traveling freely in this nation?
All this talk of forcebly putting people into quarantine if they traveled to Africa against their civil rights and other nonsensical talk is scarier than the prospect of Ebola turning into some pandemic threat.
Get hold of yourselves...you're chance of catching and dying from Ebola is only 50:50...just a bit shy higher than dying from a terrorist attack, which is 1:3.
RE: RE: This Is Proving to Be a Colossal Failure Â
the whole "restricting entry" notion is amazing. How is that really supposed to work?
How does it work? The US custom looks at his/her passport, and if the person had been to West Africa recently, you say, "No, you cannot come in. Not yet at least." A forceful attempt to gain entry will be met with more greater force. He'll understand quickly.
Oh go ahead and cry "Human right violation!" or, more powerful yet, "racial discrimination!" CNN and MSNBC will cry with you.
I agree with you in principle. I don't think everybody needs to be walking around in hazmat suits...I just think for a nurse who's very recently been in close proximity to Ebola to step on to a airplane borders on criminally irresponsible.
under staffed, over worked and working in a hazardous environment. Easy to judge from where we sit. My wife is a nurse and I have heard a lot horror stories.
My wife was stuck with a dirty needle (someone else' negligence) her supervisor told her to not worry about getting tested - because the patient was low risk, yea right.
RE: RE: RE: This Is Proving to Be a Colossal Failure Â
the whole "restricting entry" notion is amazing. How is that really supposed to work?
How does it work? The US custom looks at his/her passport, and if the person had been to West Africa recently, you say, "No, you cannot come in. Not yet at least." A forceful attempt to gain entry will be met with more greater force. He'll understand quickly.
Oh go ahead and cry "Human right violation!" or, more powerful yet, "racial discrimination!" CNN and MSNBC will cry with you.
And here comes the moron from LA.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This Is Proving to Be a Colossal Failure Â
If she was asymptomatic when she traveled, how can anyone charge her for anything beyond doing what normal people do...traveling freely in this nation?
All this talk of forcebly putting people into quarantine if they traveled to Africa against their civil rights and other nonsensical talk is scarier than the prospect of Ebola turning into some pandemic threat.
Get hold of yourselves...you're chance of catching and dying from Ebola is only 50:50...just a bit shy higher than dying from a terrorist attack, which is 1:3.
I don't know about charging her, but these people were supposed to be voluntarily quarantined. We now have a doctor and a nurse breaking that quarantine. You would think that medical people would understand the need to control who has been exposed. This is the weak link in the chain.
I agree with you in principle. I don't think everybody needs to be walking around in hazmat suits...I just think for a nurse who's very recently been in close proximity to Ebola to step on to a airplane borders on criminally irresponsible.
Just my initial opinion, I could very well wrong.
But how is it criminally irresponsible when she wasn't showing any symptoms prior to her travel? She (along with everyone else in the hospital) most likely believed that they did their due diligence in safeguarding themselves. Unlike many on this thread, I doubt that these medical professionals are thinking doomsday scenarios.
It sucks that she did contract the disease, but to say that she should be punished is bordering on punitive measures for the sake of fueling hysteria.
she wasn't supposed to travel. The head of the CDC just said that. It shouldn't come down to being charged with something, but she really should have known better.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This Is Proving to Be a Colossal Failure Â
Ugh...every time you post, I want to reach through my screen and punch you right in the face for not only being absolutely idiotic in almost all of your posts but for making LA look bad.
My initial post a few moments ago was probably too harsh.
But even the head of the CDC said the nurse should not have traveled on a commercial flight...I just see it as common sense.
It it unreasonable to think "Gee, I've just been in close proximity with a man who died from Ebola...perhaps it wouldn't be unwise to go on an airplane for a few weeks."
she wasn't supposed to travel. The head of the CDC just said that. It shouldn't come down to being charged with something, but she really should have known better.
Sure...everyone in any profession should know better. That isn't the issue...the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This Is Proving to Be a Colossal Failure Â
Ugh...every time you post, I want to reach through my screen and punch you right in the face for not only being absolutely idiotic in almost all of your posts but for making LA look bad.
You can leave LA if my words shame you. Go ahead, leave. Who are fuck are you to represent LA, or have the authority what opinions would make LA look good or bad? Who are you, exactly? You are not an ignorant fuck?
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
and I agree that maybe she should have practiced better judgement. However, when you have idiots like LAXin and others clamoring to start forcebly control how people travel, etc. based on their fear, any talk about criminal responsibilities, etc. become a bit much.
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
Just stop. No one violated your rights, and I doubt you will ever be in danger of catching and dying from Ebola. So get the sand out of your gash.
maybe you should go take 5 in your fall out bunker and compose yourself
Maybe I am coming off a bit over the top, but what would be the precedent for something like this?
Where a very deadly microbe is spreading in an age of easy air travel.
Combine this with the clusterfuck that is how this case has been handled by the hospital in Dallas. This is how the "best healthcare system" in the world met dealt with Ebola for the first time.
I would grade the action and response as an F+.
To me it is not hard to believe that this will change how we view infectious disease in this country and it may have far reaching consequences that at this time we can not fully imagine.
I am not in a bunker and I am not actually panicked at all. I do think it is an unprecedented historical event for our modern age and I have no confidence with the US healthcare system, as it currently functions, to ensure that this disease does not become permanent in the US.
I also do view it as a national security issue, how could you not?
and I agree that maybe she should have practiced better judgement. However, when you have idiots like LAXin and others clamoring to start forcebly control how people travel, etc. based on their fear, any talk about criminal responsibilities, etc. become a bit much.
American really is a country that, seriously, has NOT really experienced much hardship, that's the good and bad about it.
Asked an American to describe the most difficult hardship, and he would say, "back in 1929, when we had this disaster called the Great Depression, people had to line up to get some soup. Wow, how hard that was! See, we suffered! We understand human hardship!"
Which would make most of the world laugh. Or angry.
It is such accustom to good and peaceful life that allows morons like RC02XX to ask worry things like "did we violate his civil right?" "did we hurt his feeling?" "how is travel restriction is possible to work". Those high-moral questions disappear only when dead bodies are lying on the street.
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
Just stop. No one violated your rights, and I doubt you will ever be in danger of catching and dying from Ebola. So get the sand out of your gash.
My brother is a doctor who works out of the ER/ICU of a NYC hospital. Are YOU any closer to Ebola? How so?
Are YOU telling me what danger I am allowed to feel, and not to feel? I ask again, what are you, and based on what authority, are you telling me what to feel and what not to feel?
American really is a country that, seriously, has NOT really experienced much hardship, that's the good and bad about it.
Asked an American to describe the most difficult hardship, and he would say, "back in 1929, when we had this disaster called the Great Depression, people had to line up to get some soup. Wow, how hard that was! See, we suffered! We understand human hardship!"
Which would make most of the world laugh. Or angry.
It is such accustom to good and peaceful life that allows morons like RC02XX to ask worry things like "did we violate his civil right?" "did we hurt his feeling?" "how is travel restriction is possible to work". Those high-moral questions disappear only when dead bodies are lying on the street.
And you lived such a difficult life in LA where your civil rights were constantly violated. You came off like a buffoon and a complete bitch in your previous posts in the Ferguson related threads. And now this? Before you go into your Kim Jong Un-mode trying to violate the basic civil rights of people, maybe you should take a breath. Your hysteria and persecution complex is really blinding. And sure, tell me how you've seen and known suffering from your latte drinking life.
My brother is a doctor who works out of the ER/ICU of a NYC hospital. Are YOU any closer to Ebola? How so?
Are YOU telling me what danger I am allowed to feel, and not to feel? I ask again, what are you, and based on what authority, are you telling me what to feel and what not to feel?
No...you can fear for your life all you want. That's your prerogative. But based on reality, I doubt you will contract and die of Ebola...just saying.
between trusting people to voluntarily do the right thing and locking them up if they don't.
As Bill L said, the weak link in this whole thing is people. Sure it's a bit hysterical to think the world is ending because you can't trust a medical person to not travel and expose the world. But isn't it equally naïve to not worry when med staff are traveling after being exposed to a deadly disease?
pubic health policy for this. How could any healthcare worker who was working closely with an Ebola patient be allowed to fly?
If she had a fever on the plane is it not possible that she was contagious? Even if there is a tiny chance that is quite a roll of the dice.
If she spread Ebola on a flight that would be very serious. Obviously the CDC thinks so since NOW they will work with authorities on travel bans for those exposed to Ebola.
This is what I mean when I say that there seems to be no protocol, no plan for this. There must be some risk if the CDC is changing their actions after the fact.
Thing is with a microbe there is no after the fact. If multiple people on that flight get Ebola that is a serious problem.
between trusting people to voluntarily do the right thing and locking them up if they don't.
As Bill L said, the weak link in this whole thing is people. Sure it's a bit hysterical to think the world is ending because you can't trust a medical person to not travel and expose the world. But isn't it equally naïve to not worry when med staff are traveling after being exposed to a deadly disease?
Sure there should be a middle ground, and maybe these medical personnel should have been under long term observation with routine testing rather than just being advised not to travel. She made a terrible decision, but the protocol was just as bad in ensuring that she was better taken care of than being left to her own device in which she probably thought she was ok (which is a human nature).
Public health workers don't always do the right thing Â
Case in point, every year our local hospitals have to restrict the work nature of nurses and others because they fall for snake oil BS and refuse to get flu shots. So, they're not allowed near patients or public. Sometimes they can work with patients if they keep a mask on...hope they follow through with that. But these are people working in public health and presumably are informed. Besides being dumbasses themselves, what a horrible message to send to uninformed public.
initial phase of any crisis (whether it's isolated ebola case or a hurricane) is likely to be a snafu when bureaucracy is involved. As things progress, reaction and knowledge of how to react will improve. So, as long as you're not at ground zero for the zombie apocalypse, you should be ok.
RE: Public health workers don't always do the right thing Â
Case in point, every year our local hospitals have to restrict the work nature of nurses and others because they fall for snake oil BS and refuse to get flu shots. So, they're not allowed near patients or public. Sometimes they can work with patients if they keep a mask on...hope they follow through with that. But these are people working in public health and presumably are informed. Besides being dumbasses themselves, what a horrible message to send to uninformed public.
That's exactly my point in my response to fkap. Better protocol to take care of their own people (medical personnel) by the hospital may have prevented this nurse from thinking that she can travel. As you said, it's human nature to do what you think is best for you and not necessarily for others around you. Only way to prevent that short of locking these people up is to truly put into place something that holds these medical personnel accountable as well as making them feel like they're being taken care of beyond just some advice given to them.
initial phase of any crisis (whether it's isolated ebola case or a hurricane) is likely to be a snafu when bureaucracy is involved. As things progress, reaction and knowledge of how to react will improve. So, as long as you're not at ground zero for the zombie apocalypse, you should be ok.
to be at ground zero, you're welcome to Ronnie's basement. He'll feed you plenty of baby formula. He's located on Terminus Lane.
I did get a good chuckle out of your invite. During an apocalypse, visiting an ex marine proficient in 101 ways to kill people is low on my to do list.
The NBC news crew was specifically quarantined and ignored it. IMO, they were defined as being potential carriers and in violating the quarantine they constituted a public health threat. Then they supervisor basically shrugged it off. IMO, at the very least she should be fired and probably the rest of them dew should be as well.
to be at ground zero, you're welcome to Ronnie's basement. He'll feed you plenty of baby formula. He's located on Terminus Lane.
I did get a good chuckle out of your invite. During an apocalypse, visiting an ex marine proficient in 101 ways to kill people is low on my to do list.
Sir, there is no ex-Marine...and I will need others' help to feed my family...even if it is at the expense of their legs or arms, etc. I'm not picky...:)
RE: I'm not against punishment in some cases though Â
The NBC news crew was specifically quarantined and ignored it. IMO, they were defined as being potential carriers and in violating the quarantine they constituted a public health threat. Then they supervisor basically shrugged it off. IMO, at the very least she should be fired and probably the rest of them dew should be as well.
That's completely understandable. If you have been quarantined with just cause, then of course you should be punished for ignoring it. However, was this just an advisement or an actual quarantine? Human nature...blah blah blah.
I think it's fair to say that, while the risk for any of us as Â
individuals is very low, there is legitimate concern here as to a)how this has been handled thus far and b)the fact that ebola is, in fact, deadly. I also think that the feds have been disingenuous in their statements because they think that honesty about the situation would feed a panic, but I disagree with that. When you say things that are plainly contradictory, or illogical, in the interests of playing Chip Diller and assuring people "All is well!", it does nothing but fuel the perception that the people in charge ARE, in fact, lying about the situation. That sows the kind of distrust that really DOES fuel panic and conspiracy theories. I think the CDC and the administration would be well served to be forthright but calm about these matters rather than dismissive.
I think an important thing to consider before freaking out is that everyone (2 nurses) who has contracted Ebola in the states were basically knee deep in Ebola blood and doo-doo (regardless of how well they were protected). If any of the people on the plane get the disease by way of just being around the nurse, then it might be time to be concerned.
On the issue. I'd guess the truth of this lies a bit in between the hysteria and total discounting going on.
It is a real threat that with certain conditions prevailing could become a significant issue.
My personal guess is that after a couple of week our health care community gets it and while occasional infections are bound to occur widespread contagion will not.
That said, the problem with restrictions on air traffic are myriad. How for instance do you say to a US citizen, you cannot come back to the US if they have visited western Africa? Most will have jobs to go to and cannot simply afford staying away. A simple test of temperatures will prevent infection in transit(prior to entering a plane) and when in the states they can be advised by law to self monitor or monitor by a third party if self monitoring is impossible or considered unlikely.
We can stop boarding of planes for all people for suspected terrorism I find in unlikely we can not also stop boarding of planes by non citizens if necessary. However determining the real location of someone(where they have been), in Africa as opposed to where they leave by plane may be a insurmountable issue. Some borders are not even monitored nevertheless having passport stampings.
This second nurse infected….by my take her actions were totally irresponsible.
We really need to work at helping African nations stop this. That is the most likely solution to protect the US. It will likely never be completely eradicated, but will become manageable with proper care.
Yeah, that was an interesting study from the Kobringer lab. At the very least it shows that in the right species certain strains of Ebola can become airborne. Equally as interesting that there was no transmission among rhesus monkeys. If anything, it raises additional alarms about intra-species transmission in the US and what could happen if the virus starts popping back and forth between animals & humans.
I really don't know why everyone isn't concerned about all of this. We've had carriers walking around uncontained and flying on a plane now. These next few weeks will be interesting.
Bill, you're very much spot on with your posts. I appreciate reading them.
under staffed, over worked and working in a hazardous environment. Easy to judge from where we sit. My wife is a nurse and I have heard a lot horror stories.
My wife was stuck with a dirty needle (someone else' negligence) her supervisor told her to not worry about getting tested - because the patient was low risk, yea right.
Yup. Being understaffed and overworked is a big problem in healthcare. Seems like it's getting worse.
ebola gets into the rat population.
Since it appears dogs and such are susceptible I would guess rats as well.
Then it would become unstoppable in cities at least.
But the flip side is the chance of that happening is pretty slim I'd guess.
A case here and there is bound to occur, but untreated cases which could spread rampantly seems unlikely.
Truth is by my take nurses, docs, anyone in the field becomes complainant with infection contra over the years. They see so much in the way of infectious diseases. So with the consequence and a couple here being unfortunately infected, they will improve their procedures.
my take is that Ebola shouldn't be discounted and medical personnel treating patients should be very careful and follow protocols.
But, the hysteria over Ebola is just that - hysteria. The Media has made it sound like a huge threat to the populace and the health system, when it really isn't.
It shouldn't be discounted, but on the flip side, it shouldn't be exaggerated either.
It does lie in the middle, but unfortunately based on the media, you'd think Ebola is a serious threat and needs to be dealt with immediately.
She had no evidence of infection, and probably was at no greater risk than the other hundred or so that cared for the pt.
If this nurse survives, some kind of punitive action needs to be taken. I really think was negligence of the worst kind; wanton disregard.
If she was asymptomatic when she traveled, how can anyone charge her for anything beyond doing what normal people do...traveling freely in this nation?
All this talk of forcebly putting people into quarantine if they traveled to Africa against their civil rights and other nonsensical talk is scarier than the prospect of Ebola turning into some pandemic threat.
Get hold of yourselves...you're chance of catching and dying from Ebola is only 50:50...just a bit shy higher than dying from a terrorist attack, which is 1:3.
Quote:
the whole "restricting entry" notion is amazing. How is that really supposed to work?
How does it work? The US custom looks at his/her passport, and if the person had been to West Africa recently, you say, "No, you cannot come in. Not yet at least." A forceful attempt to gain entry will be met with more greater force. He'll understand quickly.
Oh go ahead and cry "Human right violation!" or, more powerful yet, "racial discrimination!" CNN and MSNBC will cry with you.
Just my initial opinion, I could very well wrong.
My wife was stuck with a dirty needle (someone else' negligence) her supervisor told her to not worry about getting tested - because the patient was low risk, yea right.
Quote:
In comment 11921553 Bernie said:
Quote:
the whole "restricting entry" notion is amazing. How is that really supposed to work?
How does it work? The US custom looks at his/her passport, and if the person had been to West Africa recently, you say, "No, you cannot come in. Not yet at least." A forceful attempt to gain entry will be met with more greater force. He'll understand quickly.
Oh go ahead and cry "Human right violation!" or, more powerful yet, "racial discrimination!" CNN and MSNBC will cry with you.
And here comes the moron from LA.
And here comes the moron from LA.
And you are ignorant idiot.
If she was asymptomatic when she traveled, how can anyone charge her for anything beyond doing what normal people do...traveling freely in this nation?
All this talk of forcebly putting people into quarantine if they traveled to Africa against their civil rights and other nonsensical talk is scarier than the prospect of Ebola turning into some pandemic threat.
Get hold of yourselves...you're chance of catching and dying from Ebola is only 50:50...just a bit shy higher than dying from a terrorist attack, which is 1:3.
I don't know about charging her, but these people were supposed to be voluntarily quarantined. We now have a doctor and a nurse breaking that quarantine. You would think that medical people would understand the need to control who has been exposed. This is the weak link in the chain.
Just my initial opinion, I could very well wrong.
But how is it criminally irresponsible when she wasn't showing any symptoms prior to her travel? She (along with everyone else in the hospital) most likely believed that they did their due diligence in safeguarding themselves. Unlike many on this thread, I doubt that these medical professionals are thinking doomsday scenarios.
It sucks that she did contract the disease, but to say that she should be punished is bordering on punitive measures for the sake of fueling hysteria.
Quote:
In comment 11921865 LAXin said:
And here comes the moron from LA.
And you are ignorant idiot.
Ugh...every time you post, I want to reach through my screen and punch you right in the face for not only being absolutely idiotic in almost all of your posts but for making LA look bad.
But even the head of the CDC said the nurse should not have traveled on a commercial flight...I just see it as common sense.
It it unreasonable to think "Gee, I've just been in close proximity with a man who died from Ebola...perhaps it wouldn't be unwise to go on an airplane for a few weeks."
Just my opinion- perhaps I'm wrong.
Sure...everyone in any profession should know better. That isn't the issue...the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Quote:
In comment 11921874 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 11921865 LAXin said:
And here comes the moron from LA.
And you are ignorant idiot.
Ugh...every time you post, I want to reach through my screen and punch you right in the face for not only being absolutely idiotic in almost all of your posts but for making LA look bad.
You can leave LA if my words shame you. Go ahead, leave. Who are fuck are you to represent LA, or have the authority what opinions would make LA look good or bad? Who are you, exactly? You are not an ignorant fuck?
Quote:
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
Quote:
In comment 11921894 buford said:
Quote:
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
Just stop. No one violated your rights, and I doubt you will ever be in danger of catching and dying from Ebola. So get the sand out of your gash.
Maybe I am coming off a bit over the top, but what would be the precedent for something like this?
Where a very deadly microbe is spreading in an age of easy air travel.
Combine this with the clusterfuck that is how this case has been handled by the hospital in Dallas. This is how the "best healthcare system" in the world met dealt with Ebola for the first time.
I would grade the action and response as an F+.
To me it is not hard to believe that this will change how we view infectious disease in this country and it may have far reaching consequences that at this time we can not fully imagine.
I am not in a bunker and I am not actually panicked at all. I do think it is an unprecedented historical event for our modern age and I have no confidence with the US healthcare system, as it currently functions, to ensure that this disease does not become permanent in the US.
I also do view it as a national security issue, how could you not?
American really is a country that, seriously, has NOT really experienced much hardship, that's the good and bad about it.
Asked an American to describe the most difficult hardship, and he would say, "back in 1929, when we had this disaster called the Great Depression, people had to line up to get some soup. Wow, how hard that was! See, we suffered! We understand human hardship!"
Which would make most of the world laugh. Or angry.
It is such accustom to good and peaceful life that allows morons like RC02XX to ask worry things like "did we violate his civil right?" "did we hurt his feeling?" "how is travel restriction is possible to work". Those high-moral questions disappear only when dead bodies are lying on the street.
Quote:
In comment 11921900 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 11921894 buford said:
Quote:
the issue is people going high and to the right with regards to wanting to punish people or violate their civil rights because they have been bitten by the hysteria bug is a bit much, no?
Yes, I feel my civil right was severely violated when the government that my tax money supports failed to isolate the country better from this disease. what, am I not allowed to feel that way? Is such feeling sub-human, unlawful, unmoral?
Just stop. No one violated your rights, and I doubt you will ever be in danger of catching and dying from Ebola. So get the sand out of your gash.
My brother is a doctor who works out of the ER/ICU of a NYC hospital. Are YOU any closer to Ebola? How so?
Are YOU telling me what danger I am allowed to feel, and not to feel? I ask again, what are you, and based on what authority, are you telling me what to feel and what not to feel?
Asked an American to describe the most difficult hardship, and he would say, "back in 1929, when we had this disaster called the Great Depression, people had to line up to get some soup. Wow, how hard that was! See, we suffered! We understand human hardship!"
Which would make most of the world laugh. Or angry.
It is such accustom to good and peaceful life that allows morons like RC02XX to ask worry things like "did we violate his civil right?" "did we hurt his feeling?" "how is travel restriction is possible to work". Those high-moral questions disappear only when dead bodies are lying on the street.
And you lived such a difficult life in LA where your civil rights were constantly violated. You came off like a buffoon and a complete bitch in your previous posts in the Ferguson related threads. And now this? Before you go into your Kim Jong Un-mode trying to violate the basic civil rights of people, maybe you should take a breath. Your hysteria and persecution complex is really blinding. And sure, tell me how you've seen and known suffering from your latte drinking life.
Are YOU telling me what danger I am allowed to feel, and not to feel? I ask again, what are you, and based on what authority, are you telling me what to feel and what not to feel?
No...you can fear for your life all you want. That's your prerogative. But based on reality, I doubt you will contract and die of Ebola...just saying.
As Bill L said, the weak link in this whole thing is people. Sure it's a bit hysterical to think the world is ending because you can't trust a medical person to not travel and expose the world. But isn't it equally naïve to not worry when med staff are traveling after being exposed to a deadly disease?
If she had a fever on the plane is it not possible that she was contagious? Even if there is a tiny chance that is quite a roll of the dice.
If she spread Ebola on a flight that would be very serious. Obviously the CDC thinks so since NOW they will work with authorities on travel bans for those exposed to Ebola.
This is what I mean when I say that there seems to be no protocol, no plan for this. There must be some risk if the CDC is changing their actions after the fact.
Thing is with a microbe there is no after the fact. If multiple people on that flight get Ebola that is a serious problem.
As Bill L said, the weak link in this whole thing is people. Sure it's a bit hysterical to think the world is ending because you can't trust a medical person to not travel and expose the world. But isn't it equally naïve to not worry when med staff are traveling after being exposed to a deadly disease?
Sure there should be a middle ground, and maybe these medical personnel should have been under long term observation with routine testing rather than just being advised not to travel. She made a terrible decision, but the protocol was just as bad in ensuring that she was better taken care of than being left to her own device in which she probably thought she was ok (which is a human nature).
That's exactly my point in my response to fkap. Better protocol to take care of their own people (medical personnel) by the hospital may have prevented this nurse from thinking that she can travel. As you said, it's human nature to do what you think is best for you and not necessarily for others around you. Only way to prevent that short of locking these people up is to truly put into place something that holds these medical personnel accountable as well as making them feel like they're being taken care of beyond just some advice given to them.
+100000000
I did get a good chuckle out of your invite. During an apocalypse, visiting an ex marine proficient in 101 ways to kill people is low on my to do list.
I did get a good chuckle out of your invite. During an apocalypse, visiting an ex marine proficient in 101 ways to kill people is low on my to do list.
Sir, there is no ex-Marine...and I will need others' help to feed my family...even if it is at the expense of their legs or arms, etc. I'm not picky...:)
That's completely understandable. If you have been quarantined with just cause, then of course you should be punished for ignoring it. However, was this just an advisement or an actual quarantine? Human nature...blah blah blah.
So it was voluntary but they had already agreed to it.
Yes, lets not infringe on civil rights at the expense of causing an outbreak of a virus we know little about.
I love the blurred lines between theory and reality.
Won't come to us.
Won't die from it.
No one will get infected here.
Now it's no one else will get it.
That is reason alone to bet this is the next apocalypse.
It is a real threat that with certain conditions prevailing could become a significant issue.
My personal guess is that after a couple of week our health care community gets it and while occasional infections are bound to occur widespread contagion will not.
That said, the problem with restrictions on air traffic are myriad. How for instance do you say to a US citizen, you cannot come back to the US if they have visited western Africa? Most will have jobs to go to and cannot simply afford staying away. A simple test of temperatures will prevent infection in transit(prior to entering a plane) and when in the states they can be advised by law to self monitor or monitor by a third party if self monitoring is impossible or considered unlikely.
We can stop boarding of planes for all people for suspected terrorism I find in unlikely we can not also stop boarding of planes by non citizens if necessary. However determining the real location of someone(where they have been), in Africa as opposed to where they leave by plane may be a insurmountable issue. Some borders are not even monitored nevertheless having passport stampings.
This second nurse infected….by my take her actions were totally irresponsible.
We really need to work at helping African nations stop this. That is the most likely solution to protect the US. It will likely never be completely eradicated, but will become manageable with proper care.
I really don't know why everyone isn't concerned about all of this. We've had carriers walking around uncontained and flying on a plane now. These next few weeks will be interesting.
Bill, you're very much spot on with your posts. I appreciate reading them.
My wife was stuck with a dirty needle (someone else' negligence) her supervisor told her to not worry about getting tested - because the patient was low risk, yea right.
Yup. Being understaffed and overworked is a big problem in healthcare. Seems like it's getting worse.
Since it appears dogs and such are susceptible I would guess rats as well.
Then it would become unstoppable in cities at least.
But the flip side is the chance of that happening is pretty slim I'd guess.
A case here and there is bound to occur, but untreated cases which could spread rampantly seems unlikely.
Truth is by my take nurses, docs, anyone in the field becomes complainant with infection contra over the years. They see so much in the way of infectious diseases. So with the consequence and a couple here being unfortunately infected, they will improve their procedures.
Unless somehow this person's bodily fluids penetrated your skin, there is no issue.
This is more fear-mongering than anything else.
Just look at this thread, you have people criticizing the person for traveling and thinking that hundreds could be exposed because of it.
But, the hysteria over Ebola is just that - hysteria. The Media has made it sound like a huge threat to the populace and the health system, when it really isn't.
It shouldn't be discounted, but on the flip side, it shouldn't be exaggerated either.
It does lie in the middle, but unfortunately based on the media, you'd think Ebola is a serious threat and needs to be dealt with immediately.