NGT: Returning to practice Will Hill shows plenty of energy

that's the whole point. This team runs a very specific way when it comes to conduct. There are times where they bend, like they did several times already for Hill, but they generally don't break.

My overall point is that if you are signing up to be a Giants fan, and enjoyed those SB trophies, then you also need to buy into the fact that they hold their players accountable for their actions.

Aldon Smith still playing for the 49ers has nothing to do with the Giants.

Lastly, its extremely likely that a lot went on behind closed doors that we know nothing about. It's been leaked as such IIRC as well. Meaning, Hill either broke additional rules or didnt hold up his end to whatever was agreed upon when the took him back the last time.

accomplishes this season with the Ravens.

In comment 11922715 Doomster said:

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why I should give up the smoking hot chick for the good looking girl? So she cheats a little....but she's smokin'! And now she wants a 3 some....with another girl...who's smokin", too.....

Self-respect?

Any guy with a functioning penis obviously *wants* to keep fucking the smoking hot chick. This is a given.

But any guy with a hint of self-respect to go along with his functioning penis, after the first time, sure, let's keep fucking her. After the 2nd time, if you have self respect, you tell the cheating slut to enjoy being a cheating slut on someone else's dime. If you're still keeping her around after the 2nd or third time and think it won't happen, you're a fucking fool.


Hill was a beast on the field. He's also completely unreliable. Your heart says keep fucking the smoking hot chick but your head should tell you to ditch the cheating slut yesterday.

if that bitch gives you herpes thanks to her cheating.....

that's a tired strawman that ignores the history of his troubles, which is what got him cut. The totality, the overall pattern of not being able to trust and rely on him.

people just can't get over.

we broke up, it was mutual or you can even say we (the Giants) dumped him, move on.

who are character risks who continue the string of behavior and end up out of the league. Sure, Will Hill's only 24 or so, but the guy has continually been kept off the field everywhere he's been.

At some point, if he doesn't get it, you have to cut ties.

You know, some of the people railing against Hill getting cut would probably be people also seething mad if the giants continued to keep him around and he did something like run over a person while high or drunk.

Frankly, the Giants gave Hill more than enough chances. In the end you move on, because guys like Hill rarely do and waiting or expecting him to doesn't happen.

In comment 11922819 JonC said:

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that's a tired strawman that ignores the history of his troubles, which is what got him cut. The totality, the overall pattern of not being able to trust and rely on him.

This, END of story!

Remember while you do that, keep him for his jack ass behavior, you have to cut another player who can contribute.

The NFL and its teams are now under more scrutiny than ever for poor behavior and stupidity, and almost anything in terms of leaks is reaching the public. Public outcry begins, media amplifies it, the individual is torn down and thrown out the door. There's literally nowhere to hide like there was in the 80s, LT's mistakes and patterns of behavior could be swept under the rug.

In comment 11922882 JOrthman said:

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Remember while you do that, keep him for his jack ass behavior, you have to cut another player who can contribute.

I think the team could get by without the services of Chandler Fenner

In comment 11922934 Blue Baller said:

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In comment 11922882 JOrthman said: Quote: Remember while you do that, keep him for his jack ass behavior, you have to cut another player who can contribute. I think the team could get by without the services of Chandler Fenner

Who says it would of been Fenner? That is a roster decision that would of had to have been made at the beginning of the season. It could of been at the expense of a WR or another position. It may have made the cut or expose another player to waivers they may not get back.

suspended players do not take up a roster spot

No decision would have to be made at the beginning of the season

long before his return. You still have to decide who your going to expose to waivers. Your only saying Fenner know cause he's bounced back and forth from waivers recently, but that is hindsight. If they decided to keep Hill, you don't know if they would of made the same moves.

not at all.

We could have not cut him, put him on the suspended list and then when the suspension was up decided if we wanted to make room for him or just cut him at that point.

We held all the cards and threw them away.

He was a player that was signed for basically no money. He was an added bonus.

It was an asinine decision to cut him.

We are a team that is not in the upper echelon of defensive talent. Having Hill on the field was a huge positive.

It sucks that he'll be on Baltimore. I really hope he get suspended again so the Giants are vindicated.

I'd love to get served some crow, but this one is gonna hurt us big time.

The ONLY argument I can see that makes sense is the accountability argument. But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill.

We give guys chance after chance after chance but there has to be a limit to how many chances.

It's not about Will Hill. It's about doing what's in the best interest of the NY Giants as a team and an organization.


I wish we didn't have to cut him (and I'm sure most agree with that, but the guy gave us no fucking choice. Move on.

In comment 11923053 Blue Baller said:

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not at all. We could have not cut him, put him on the suspended list and then when the suspension was up decided if we wanted to make room for him or just cut him at that point. We held all the cards and threw them away.

I'm not talking about cutting him. I'm saying when they cut down the roster to 53 they had to decide what they were doing with Hill and others on the roster. The Giants decided to cut Hill, which affected every decision they made on the rest of the roster. If on that day, they decided they wanted to keep him, they probably changes other cuts and moves. Your using hindsight in your decision. If they knew Hill was coming back they needed to plan long term on how they were going to handle it roster wise. I highly doubt the Giants are as short sighed as your making them out to be.

In comment 11923054 Sonic Youth said:

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But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill.

Like who? With this coach and this administration.

In comment 11923083 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 11923054 Sonic Youth said: Quote: But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill. Like who? With this coach and this administration.

Plaxico

Hill's sucks.

Fans don't have to separate the on field talent from the headache the organization has to put up with and clean up after, you have that luxury. But, make no mistake you're conflating the two perspectives.

It's a poor decision in terms of talent and personnel, clearly. That's only half the equation, now more than ever with teams feeling the heat of public scrutiny.

It is what it is, Hill created the situation.

In comment 11923088 Blue Baller said:

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In comment 11923083 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 11923054 Sonic Youth said: Quote: But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill. Like who? With this coach and this administration. Plaxico

Plaxico didn't make himself unavailable for games.

are not.

They made a decision months ago and have moved on...

Just like Hosely's suspension likely saved him from getting cut, Hill's suspension was like having a secret stash on your roster.

I'm not an expert on the mechanics and maybe they would have to expose some fringe player to waivers for one day, but the back end of the roster is always shifting around anyway. Its a tiny price to play.

I get the accountability argument, I really do. This is just a unique situation where talent and contract value is so far apart its worth the risk.

In comment 11923094 Jimmy Googs said:

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are not. They made a decision months ago and have moved on...

I bet after Taylor went down and Brown got benched there were a few dissenting voices

In comment 11922668 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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I have little respect for that franchise - one currently coached by one of the biggest douches in NFL lore.

How do you think fans around the NFL embraced Bill Parcells in the '80s?

I'd imagine no better than most here would embrace Harbaugh.

You see both are pricks, but at least Harbaugh's asshole(ry) is rooted in an over the top competitiveness that is hilarious and charming if he's your head coach. His whole life revolves around football and winning, and that passion when taken too far will be a turn off to many.

Parcells on the other hand was a grade A a***hole who had to demean his own players to get the best of them. It's comical to read about Harbaugh being a little too wound up with his own players and then compare it to how Parcells treated his own QB. You can Simms is still affected by it to this day.

There are/were very few good (relevant) head coaches that were saints. Mike Ditka, Buddy Ryan, Bill Belichick, Mike Singletary, Jim Schwartz, lots of POS have coached in this league.

Amusing that fans care so much about this, and will hate on others and be blind to their own.

I tend to believe NYG thought the same way, until Hill's actions continued to fuel the risk, and they decided to no longer assume said risk.

They cut him to eliminate the risk that he gets suspended again?

That's like being afraid you are going to get robbed so you throw out all your possessions.

in spite of all your stupidity and lack of accountability, is going to bite you on the arse. Those generous and patient people will eventually give up on you, regardless of your talent.

Oh, the angst!

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I’ll never forget the opening game of the ’84 season against the Philadelphia Eagles. Coach was standing at the locker room door saying things to players as they walked by. As I passed him, he says, “Hey Simms, if you don’t throw at least two interceptions today, you’re not taking enough chances.” I’m thinking, “Wow! What a thing to say to a quarterback!” It was his way of giving me a quick message to try to take the pressure off so I could relax and go out and play to the best of my ability. He did the same thing in Super Bowl XXI. All week long he kept telling me, “Make sure you’re aggressive and don’t be afraid to take a chance.” After we won, I remember his smile, I had to go through the coaches’ locker room or something, he just goes, “Simms, you were magnificent.” .......... I think I speak for a lot of ex-Giant players when I say that Bill had a tremendous impact, not only on our careers, but on our lives as well. There’s hardly a day that goes by when I don’t say or tell someone a Bill Parcells saying.

Seriously....the Niners don't have any boards?
obvious PTSD case - ( New Window )

I'm not ok with having him for 12 games, and then dealing with his suspensions etc. That's the risk and lack of accountability they pulled the plug on.

In comment 11923146 Blue Baller said:

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In comment 11923094 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: are not. They made a decision months ago and have moved on... I bet after Taylor went down and Brown got benched there were a few dissenting voices

Yes, I bet your right. Its not hard to find people that are short-sighted.

You don't like the fact that he will unavailable for 4-6-8 games so you make him unavailable for all of them?

Makes no sense to me.

I get that he probably broke promises to the team and that is the real reason. I just wish they didn't draw such a hard line. It's not like he didn't get punished for his actions, the league punished him plenty.

It's logical, common sense that in a 16-game season you're expected to be present and available to play 16 games. If my team can't trust you to do the right thing and comply, you've got to go.

It's choosing to do the right thing over win at all costs, most well-run businesses will give the boot for far less than calling in sick 25% of the year.

100% backed him to help him with his drug issues, paid for his medical/rehab needs, looked past his red flag history and all he did was give lip service to reforming himself and relapse.

it's about a team culture of accountability.

Letting him stay after fuck up #3 goes against that accountable culture in every possible way. And I'd bet good money that many more fuck ups were kept under wraps.

it won't change.

And, I forget the exact flow of info at the time, but the suggestion the team had a hand in floating the trashed apartment story had some weight to it. Meaning, the team had had enough too.

Giants players miss games due to injury from playing the games and some on here think that is unacceptable.

Hill misses games because he is a f'n idiot and does not care and that is deemed OK by some.

Amazing

In comment 11923275 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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100% backed him to help him with his drug issues, paid for his medical/rehab needs, looked past his red flag history and all he did was give lip service to reforming himself and relapse.

This too. The Giants gave Hill a chance when no one else in the league was willing, and he repaid them with lies and two more suspensions.

.

some people have never led nor managed anyone. It goes poorly when you let someone lie to you repeatedly.

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RE: The 49ers.. NINEster : 12:05 pm : link : reply In comment 11922668 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: I have little respect for that franchise - one currently coached by one of the biggest douches in NFL lore. How do you think fans around the NFL embraced Bill Parcells in the '80s? I'd imagine no better than most here would embrace Harbaugh. You see both are pricks, but at least Harbaugh's asshole(ry) is rooted in an over the top competitiveness that is hilarious and charming if he's your head coach. His whole life revolves around football and winning, and that passion when taken too far will be a turn off to many. Parcells on the other hand was a grade A a***hole who had to demean his own players to get the best of them. It's comical to read about Harbaugh being a little too wound up with his own players and then compare it to how Parcells treated his own QB. You can Simms is still affected by it to this day. There are/were very few good (relevant) head coaches that were saints. Mike Ditka, Buddy Ryan, Bill Belichick, Mike Singletary, Jim Schwartz, lots of POS have coached in this league. Amusing that fans care so much about this, and will hate on others and be blind to their own.

How the fuck should I treat an asshole with the handle NINEster?

Point is, the 49ers are not a respected franchise. They were a winning franchise in an era when they cheated, lied, and schemed their way to the top.

you really want to compare Parcells to Harbaugh? Tell me when Harbaugh has won anything of note. The guy has had a stellar record is already rumored out of SF. Great work by a collossal asshole.

In comment 11922898 JonC said:

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The NFL and its teams are now under more scrutiny than ever for poor behavior and stupidity, and almost anything in terms of leaks is reaching the public. Public outcry begins, media amplifies it, the individual is torn down and thrown out the door. There's literally nowhere to hide like there was in the 80s, LT's mistakes and patterns of behavior could be swept under the rug.

this. different time and era where we are now.

was the real lesson for the other players, not the fact that the Giants cut Hill. How could that be a deterrent when another team picked him up relatively quickly? None of these guys care about the Giants THAT much... they don't care where they play as long as they get paid. All it really accomplished was hurting the team. He wasn't tying up a large portion of the cap, nor was his probable suspension keeping them from making other moves. There was little downside to keeping him through the suspension other than abstract junk.

BTW, just because I think the Giants screwed the pooch by cutting Hill doesn't mean I absolve Hill of acting like a moron.

and the 49ers are hanging on to Smith for all they are worth. Why are we different? Are the Ravens not concerned about Hill's reliability?

Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.

This reminds me of when the Giants signed Larry Czonka from the failed World Football League. Czonka had of course gone to the WFL from Miami. Wellington Mara compensated the Dolphins with two third round draft choices although he was under no obligation to give them anything.

This probably gave Well a nice warm feeling about being an honorable man, but it did nothing for the long-suffering players and fans of the Giants.

I actually admire those who are glad Will Hill was released based on moral principals. All I care about is winning.

you seem to come off as a fucking idiot a lot of times when the team loses.

If all you care about is winning, you are going to be disappointed a great portion of the time.

I just don't get the people who could give a shit about character or think Will Hill was released for smoking pot of for one incident. It was a continued pattern of unreliability. And even then, it was a difficult decision.

I think most people care about winning, but the people who state the ONLY care about winning usually prove that they don't mind lying, cheating or doing anything they can to win, and then they become insufferable, whiny fucks, who look for scapegoats when the wins don't come.

In comment 11924095 Reese's Pieces said:

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Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.

In comment 11924401 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you seem to come off as a fucking idiot a lot of times when the team loses.

I'll take that as a compliment. You come off as a fucking idiot whether the team wins or loses.

In comment 11924501 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 11924095 Reese's Pieces said: Quote: Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.

OK, please define reliability to me. I think it means being available to play nearly every game. Eli Manning is reliable. Steve Smith and Kenny Phillips and Terrell Thomas were not reliable because injuries forced them to miss large parts of seasons and eventually cost them their careers.

If we re-sign Kenny Phillips knowing that his history of knee injuries may keep him out of too many games, we are taking the same risk as re-signing Hill when the chance of suspension would keep him out of too many games.

The risk of injury is present for every player - including Will Hill - Hill carried with him incremental risk above and beyond most other players that he wouldn't be (and indeed wasn't) available to play.

For example, he currently isn't injured, and is still unavailable to play.