Wilson Baltimore Sun:
"Any time you have a phenomenal talent like Will Hill on your team, he definitely can help your defense, whether it be coming up and supporting in the run game or basically communicating in the back end," Pro Bowl outside linebacker Terrell Suggs said. "All that’s pretty big. We get another big safety back in the lineup.
"Everybody knows how we like our safeties around here. It’s going to be pretty good to actually get him out there in that Ravens black and see what he can do."
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This.
If that's in reference to me (not sure if it is) I would welcome an "I told you so." I've been pretty straight forward with my opinion on him (he shouldn't have been cut) and if it indeed happens again, then I and other people who wanted to keep him would have it coming.
I wish the guy was still here more than anything but how many more chances do you give him?
I hate that the Giants had to do what they did but he really gave them no choice.
Are you watching what's happening around this league in just this year alone? Its been an absolutely disaster with arrests from these shitty human beings. I'd rather root for what we have than guys like Will Hill.
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but I look forward to saying 'I told you so' when he fucks up and gets suspended again
If that's in reference to me (not sure if it is) I would welcome an "I told you so." I've been pretty straight forward with my opinion on him (he shouldn't have been cut) and if it indeed happens again, then I and other people who wanted to keep him would have it coming.
not solely to you, but to all who still criticize the decision to cut him. I've always said he was given plenty of chances and blew them all.
I'm bummed too, loved him on the field, but the Giants have to hold the line with their standards and rules, can't selectively apply them based on talent
I fail to see what it accomplished.
And please spare me the "you cant rely on him" argument. Can we rely on any safety on this team not named Rolle?
On top of it we hold on to Hosely, makes no sense
Are you watching what's happening around this league in just this year alone? Its been an absolutely disaster with arrests from these shitty human beings. I'd rather root for what we have than guys like Will Hill.
No offense, but the Madden analogy is pretty dumb here, man. That kind've talk should be reserved for people who think you can trade for a star player and have him play exceptional right away, or people who suggest moving a cornerback to WR or something. Will Hill seems to be a pretty crappy guy, but he was suspended for marijuana use... nothing remotely close to "what's happened around the league this year alone."
The thing that bothered me about it was that the league deemed his offense worthy of a six game suspension. He wasn't going to get away with anything. In fact, he ended up losing a pretty hefty portion of a salary that, by NFL standards, is very marginal. My point being, it's not like this was some 6 million dollar safety that we couldn't afford to keep around in lieu of other safeties. Will Hill was being paid as a backup and this gave us room to maneuver and sign depth at the position should he fuck up again. So the argument that "we couldn't count on him" was dumb because, at his salary, we didn't have to "count on him." We could have had tremendous depth at the position, in fact.
Your point is totally fair that not punishing him does take away from a culture of accountability... but he was punished. for more than 1/3 of the season. It'd be like suggesting an MLB team cut a very cheap, very good player for a 60 game suspension for steroids... except this isn't steroids. It's weed. I'm not referring to you, but I have heard plenty of people rant about how "it's not about the weed! It's about accountability." I think that is an ignorant stance. Just ignoring the offense is ridiculous, IMO.
I have watched Stevie Brown and Quentin Demps get torched far too often for six games. I would've loved to have that issue over with against Dallas. It's not.
You need to establish accountability, cut your losses, and move on for better or worse. You telling me we would be better with him right now doesn't shed light on anything any of us didn't already know.
Why is it I'm not shocked at all that the point of cutting Hill completely flies over FEK's head?
You need to establish accountability, cut your losses, and move on for better or worse. You telling me we would be better with him right now doesn't shed light on anything any of us didn't already know.
Hey man, as mfsd said... I will welcome an "I told you so" with open arms if it happens. But the kid just turned 24 this March. I disagree vehemently with giving up on him and his incredibly low salary so early in the game... keep in mind, he was almost in a position to have his suspension overturned, or at least lessened.
While the rest of the league is easing up on him and players like him, we got tough on one very talented player.
It was a bad decision in my opinion. We'll see what the future proves regarding that opinion.
I disagree. While the house thing didn't help his case, ultimately he broke his promise to the team that he was going to stay out of trouble. The risk of a yearlong suspension and the fact that he had already gotten a second and third chance from the Giants is what punched his ticket out of town. And, frankly, I expect that year-long suspension to come on down by next season.
Every game he plays for us we get a near pro-bowl level of ability for a UDFA price tag. Its like turning down free money.
If I told you we could have Eric Weddle play for us against Dallas this week, would you say no?
This isn't a told you so scenario as the Giants didn't cut a player who they thought wasn't good who ended up being great on another team. They were well aware of his talent and chose to get rid of him after several chances. That can only be seen as a mistake if you can fully ignore the premise of accountability. Nothing more really needs to be said.
He was lot a locker room cancer.... Decisions he made were only a cancer to himself.
So yes it was dumb to do- and looks worse as our 2nd safety is he worst in the nfl
why would you include David Wilson in this? David and the Giants had no other choice.
On the other side of the coin, I do agree with you in a sense that the Giants don't BRING IN young, exceptional talent because of prior personal issues, when a change of scenery might be beneficial to both parties...like a Will Hill and Baltimore. Rolando McClain comes to mind, but so many others...Stephen Hill, LaMichael James, etc...maybe they had bad coaches or weren't right for the scheme or had bad QBs throwing the ball to them. I always say, being an athlete is one thing...but being at the right place at the right time, in the right situation could be the difference between a HOF career or being out of the league in 3 years.
Sure, he can play, but his was given chances time and time and time again.....
I teach my managers the commit or quit method of evaluating an employee.
If they are worth keeping commit to helping them become a valued employee.
If there comes a point where this is no longer possible, it's time to quit trying.
There is talent gap between the Giants and the better teams in the league, this makes it more difficult to overcome and requires the Giants to either over spend for veterans in free agency or devote premium draft selections to positions which could have been a strength.
Lots of other examples as well
And the post when he fucks up again will be the next post
I want people to gloat in my face if I'm wrong. I hope I am completely wrong.
But cutting him was a mistake. He wasn't toxic, his offense wasn't egregious. I do understand that the Coach's and Team's word means nothing if we didn't cut him, and that's the most compelling argument for cutting him (and not a minor one).
But having said that, isn't the point to win football games? Will Hill on this team was a net positive, even with that baggage.
Yes he can play but he's more likely to be suspended again by the league if not for Weed then for something else that's incredibly easy to avoid but because he's effing moron, he didn't.
Trying to frame the decision to release Hill without acknowledging that is intellectually dishonest.
This guy makes Hill look like a choirboy. The 49ers are, like the Giants, one of the most respected franchises. Their reaction to all this, with fan support was to ask the league to shorten his suspension and to allow him to attend team meetings.
So what am I missing? Is it just because of Coughlin that in disputes between management and players, a majority here always supports management against the player every time?
missed 4 games in 2013 - suspension
missed 6 games in 2014 - suspension
his NFL career
He has played 20 NFL games and been suspended for 14
You cant keep that player Move on
When you have a player making the minimum, you could have used him and just not offered him a new deal at the end of the season.
If anything, a lot of teams would have not offered 2015 FA Hill a big contract. We could have had Rolle and Hill at safety, week 7, at 3 and 3...
Like I said when the Giants cut him, no one was punished except the fans. Terrible decision.
He has played 20 NFL games and been suspended for 14
You cant keep that player Move on
How many games has Cooper Taylor played?
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Throw in his not playing in 2011 because the NFL as a whole did not want him.
He has played 20 NFL games and been suspended for 14
You cant keep that player Move on
How many games has Cooper Taylor played?
For legitimate reasons, not being a dumbass.
This guy makes Hill look like a choirboy. The 49ers are, like the Giants, one of the most respected franchises. Their reaction to all this, with fan support was to ask the league to shorten his suspension and to allow him to attend team meetings.
All of these events did take place, but not in the time frame you mention.
First DUI shortly after the Giants played in their last super bowl, in South Beach. The house party fiasco took place November of that year (2012). The DUI crash into a tree took place in September of 2013.
He went to rehab voluntarily, missed 5 games and many thought he would get those back as "time served". Goodell claimed he would take that into consideration but reneged on the deal, probably after the LAX incident and/or just being a bastard.
9 games this year + 5 games last year = 14 games, just about a full regular season. Initial gut feeling before the LAX incident would be a few game suspension tops.
Based on precedents alone, he got hit with a harder suspension than others. I won't attempt to name them all, but he's easily being punished harder than Donte Stallworth was for DUI manslaughter.
The 49ers stuck with him because he might be the best player on the team. Ahmad Brooks in the exact same scenario I could see being released, even as good as he is.
If it were JPP in his prime, the Giants would do the same, keep the guy.
The difference with Will Hill is he was repeatedly hit with suspensions (three?), whereas Aldon Smith had a lot of backlogged b.s. issues finally come to a head in the legal system.
If Smith got popped for a suspension after the first DUI, or the illegal weapons charge, and still did what he did afterwards, I think the 49ers take a very different tune with him. Going forward I'd imagine he's on a very tight leash.
The reality is as long as you're not actually missing the games, the crimes are "ok" in many teams' books.
I think that's ultimately what did Hill in.
Exactly. I think Hill has Pro Bowl potential, but he's completely unreliable. You'd need a starting quality backup behind him - which Stevie Brown isn't.
Can anyone honestly tell me they are happy to have Hosley on the roster over Hill?
The Niners might have been the most unethical franchise in football throughout their run in the 80's and extended into the 90's. They lied, cheated, broke league rules, and broke some federal rules too (at least Dibartolo did).
I have little respect for that franchise - one currently coached by one of the biggest douches in NFL lore.
I wouldn't trade a single ring with SF if it meant we would look like jackasses.
So, if you think SF is respectable, you probably do think cutting Will Hill is a mistake. I'm not glad we cut him, but it was much deserved.
A)Will Hill isn't a pimple on LT's ass as a player, so your point is already a joke
B)How many times was LT suspended? How many games did he cost the team?
Please tell me you are not this dense
And now she wants a 3 some....with another girl...who's smokin", too.....
Where are you getting this from?
I don't see that at all
I see the argument as we all agree he is good but some think that his rock bottom contract makes it worthwhile to hold onto him, others think that unreliability trumps all.
My overall point is that if you are signing up to be a Giants fan, and enjoyed those SB trophies, then you also need to buy into the fact that they hold their players accountable for their actions.
Aldon Smith still playing for the 49ers has nothing to do with the Giants.
Lastly, its extremely likely that a lot went on behind closed doors that we know nothing about. It's been leaked as such IIRC as well. Meaning, Hill either broke additional rules or didnt hold up his end to whatever was agreed upon when the took him back the last time.
And now she wants a 3 some....with another girl...who's smokin", too.....
Self-respect?
Any guy with a functioning penis obviously *wants* to keep fucking the smoking hot chick. This is a given.
But any guy with a hint of self-respect to go along with his functioning penis, after the first time, sure, let's keep fucking her. After the 2nd time, if you have self respect, you tell the cheating slut to enjoy being a cheating slut on someone else's dime. If you're still keeping her around after the 2nd or third time and think it won't happen, you're a fucking fool.
Hill was a beast on the field. He's also completely unreliable. Your heart says keep fucking the smoking hot chick but your head should tell you to ditch the cheating slut yesterday.
we broke up, it was mutual or you can even say we (the Giants) dumped him, move on.
At some point, if he doesn't get it, you have to cut ties.
You know, some of the people railing against Hill getting cut would probably be people also seething mad if the giants continued to keep him around and he did something like run over a person while high or drunk.
Frankly, the Giants gave Hill more than enough chances. In the end you move on, because guys like Hill rarely do and waiting or expecting him to doesn't happen.
This, END of story!
I think the team could get by without the services of Chandler Fenner
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Remember while you do that, keep him for his jack ass behavior, you have to cut another player who can contribute.
I think the team could get by without the services of Chandler Fenner
Who says it would of been Fenner? That is a roster decision that would of had to have been made at the beginning of the season. It could of been at the expense of a WR or another position. It may have made the cut or expose another player to waivers they may not get back.
No decision would have to be made at the beginning of the season
We could have not cut him, put him on the suspended list and then when the suspension was up decided if we wanted to make room for him or just cut him at that point.
We held all the cards and threw them away.
It was an asinine decision to cut him.
We are a team that is not in the upper echelon of defensive talent. Having Hill on the field was a huge positive.
It sucks that he'll be on Baltimore. I really hope he get suspended again so the Giants are vindicated.
I'd love to get served some crow, but this one is gonna hurt us big time.
The ONLY argument I can see that makes sense is the accountability argument. But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill.
It's not about Will Hill. It's about doing what's in the best interest of the NY Giants as a team and an organization.
I wish we didn't have to cut him (and I'm sure most agree with that, but the guy gave us no fucking choice. Move on.
We could have not cut him, put him on the suspended list and then when the suspension was up decided if we wanted to make room for him or just cut him at that point.
We held all the cards and threw them away.
I'm not talking about cutting him. I'm saying when they cut down the roster to 53 they had to decide what they were doing with Hill and others on the roster. The Giants decided to cut Hill, which affected every decision they made on the rest of the roster. If on that day, they decided they wanted to keep him, they probably changes other cuts and moves. Your using hindsight in your decision. If they knew Hill was coming back they needed to plan long term on how they were going to handle it roster wise. I highly doubt the Giants are as short sighed as your making them out to be.
Like who? With this coach and this administration.
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But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill.
Like who? With this coach and this administration.
Plaxico
Fans don't have to separate the on field talent from the headache the organization has to put up with and clean up after, you have that luxury. But, make no mistake you're conflating the two perspectives.
It's a poor decision in terms of talent and personnel, clearly. That's only half the equation, now more than ever with teams feeling the heat of public scrutiny.
It is what it is, Hill created the situation.
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In comment 11923054 Sonic Youth said:
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But like others said, the Giants have kept players who were a bigger "cancer" than Hill.
Like who? With this coach and this administration.
Plaxico
Plaxico didn't make himself unavailable for games.
They made a decision months ago and have moved on...
I'm not an expert on the mechanics and maybe they would have to expose some fringe player to waivers for one day, but the back end of the roster is always shifting around anyway. Its a tiny price to play.
I get the accountability argument, I really do. This is just a unique situation where talent and contract value is so far apart its worth the risk.
They made a decision months ago and have moved on...
I bet after Taylor went down and Brown got benched there were a few dissenting voices
I have little respect for that franchise - one currently coached by one of the biggest douches in NFL lore.
How do you think fans around the NFL embraced Bill Parcells in the '80s?
I'd imagine no better than most here would embrace Harbaugh.
You see both are pricks, but at least Harbaugh's asshole(ry) is rooted in an over the top competitiveness that is hilarious and charming if he's your head coach. His whole life revolves around football and winning, and that passion when taken too far will be a turn off to many.
Parcells on the other hand was a grade A a***hole who had to demean his own players to get the best of them. It's comical to read about Harbaugh being a little too wound up with his own players and then compare it to how Parcells treated his own QB. You can Simms is still affected by it to this day.
There are/were very few good (relevant) head coaches that were saints. Mike Ditka, Buddy Ryan, Bill Belichick, Mike Singletary, Jim Schwartz, lots of POS have coached in this league.
Amusing that fans care so much about this, and will hate on others and be blind to their own.
That's like being afraid you are going to get robbed so you throw out all your possessions.
He did the same thing in Super Bowl XXI. All week long he kept telling me, “Make sure you’re aggressive and don’t be afraid to take a chance.”
After we won, I remember his smile, I had to go through the coaches’ locker room or something, he just goes, “Simms, you were magnificent.”
..........
I think I speak for a lot of ex-Giant players when I say that Bill had a tremendous impact, not only on our careers, but on our lives as well. There’s hardly a day that goes by when I don’t say or tell someone a Bill Parcells saying.
Seriously....the Niners don't have any boards?
obvious PTSD case - ( New Window )
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are not.
They made a decision months ago and have moved on...
I bet after Taylor went down and Brown got benched there were a few dissenting voices
Yes, I bet your right. Its not hard to find people that are short-sighted.
Makes no sense to me.
I get that he probably broke promises to the team and that is the real reason. I just wish they didn't draw such a hard line. It's not like he didn't get punished for his actions, the league punished him plenty.
It's choosing to do the right thing over win at all costs, most well-run businesses will give the boot for far less than calling in sick 25% of the year.
Letting him stay after fuck up #3 goes against that accountable culture in every possible way. And I'd bet good money that many more fuck ups were kept under wraps.
And, I forget the exact flow of info at the time, but the suggestion the team had a hand in floating the trashed apartment story had some weight to it. Meaning, the team had had enough too.
Hill misses games because he is a f'n idiot and does not care and that is deemed OK by some.
Amazing
This too. The Giants gave Hill a chance when no one else in the league was willing, and he repaid them with lies and two more suspensions.
NINEster : 12:05 pm : link : reply
In comment 11922668 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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I have little respect for that franchise - one currently coached by one of the biggest douches in NFL lore.
How do you think fans around the NFL embraced Bill Parcells in the '80s?
I'd imagine no better than most here would embrace Harbaugh.
You see both are pricks, but at least Harbaugh's asshole(ry) is rooted in an over the top competitiveness that is hilarious and charming if he's your head coach. His whole life revolves around football and winning, and that passion when taken too far will be a turn off to many.
Parcells on the other hand was a grade A a***hole who had to demean his own players to get the best of them. It's comical to read about Harbaugh being a little too wound up with his own players and then compare it to how Parcells treated his own QB. You can Simms is still affected by it to this day.
There are/were very few good (relevant) head coaches that were saints. Mike Ditka, Buddy Ryan, Bill Belichick, Mike Singletary, Jim Schwartz, lots of POS have coached in this league.
Amusing that fans care so much about this, and will hate on others and be blind to their own.
How the fuck should I treat an asshole with the handle NINEster?
Point is, the 49ers are not a respected franchise. They were a winning franchise in an era when they cheated, lied, and schemed their way to the top.
you really want to compare Parcells to Harbaugh? Tell me when Harbaugh has won anything of note. The guy has had a stellar record is already rumored out of SF. Great work by a collossal asshole.
this. different time and era where we are now.
BTW, just because I think the Giants screwed the pooch by cutting Hill doesn't mean I absolve Hill of acting like a moron.
Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.
This reminds me of when the Giants signed Larry Czonka from the failed World Football League. Czonka had of course gone to the WFL from Miami. Wellington Mara compensated the Dolphins with two third round draft choices although he was under no obligation to give them anything.
This probably gave Well a nice warm feeling about being an honorable man, but it did nothing for the long-suffering players and fans of the Giants.
I actually admire those who are glad Will Hill was released based on moral principals. All I care about is winning.
If all you care about is winning, you are going to be disappointed a great portion of the time.
I just don't get the people who could give a shit about character or think Will Hill was released for smoking pot of for one incident. It was a continued pattern of unreliability. And even then, it was a difficult decision.
I think most people care about winning, but the people who state the ONLY care about winning usually prove that they don't mind lying, cheating or doing anything they can to win, and then they become insufferable, whiny fucks, who look for scapegoats when the wins don't come.
Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.
I'll take that as a compliment. You come off as a fucking idiot whether the team wins or loses.
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Reliability means nothing in the NFL. This is a league where a Giant receiver, whom everyone would have said is reliable, in five seconds suffers an injury causing him to miss the last ten games of the season and maybe damages his whole career. Does it matter that Cruz was injured instead of suspended? Not to the league standings.
OK, please define reliability to me. I think it means being available to play nearly every game. Eli Manning is reliable. Steve Smith and Kenny Phillips and Terrell Thomas were not reliable because injuries forced them to miss large parts of seasons and eventually cost them their careers.
If we re-sign Kenny Phillips knowing that his history of knee injuries may keep him out of too many games, we are taking the same risk as re-signing Hill when the chance of suspension would keep him out of too many games.
For example, he currently isn't injured, and is still unavailable to play.