We have the __ best QB/HC/GM in the NFL

Eli-8th

Coughlin- 6th

Jerry reese- 6th

Eli - 9

Coach Coughlin - 4

Reese - 4

Manning 6

Coughlin 4

Reese 12(ish)

The team is likely going to miss the playoffs for the fifth time in six seasons and has no real strength to point to, so those rankings might be generous for at least 2/3 in all honesty.

TC = 5
JR = 10

TC - 2
Jerry - 8

Eli - 6th
TC - 2nd (behind BB)
Jerry - 16th

Eli = 7
TC = 1
JR = 20

TC 2

JR 15

Eli: 8th
Tom: 5th
Jerry: 13th

Team: 10-12 record past 2 seasons...

In comment 11923288 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

Quote:

Eli: 8th Tom: 5th Jerry: 13th Team: 10-12 record past 2 seasons...

Look at the ranks of other units (IMO, indictment on Jerry) and look how Brady/BB (consensus top 4 QB/#1 coach) looked with their OL issues...

Those four people are the core of any NFL franchise.

TC: 1

JR: 1



:)

TC : 2

JR : 30

In comment 11923304 GIANTSr01 said:

Quote:

Look at the ranks of other units (IMO, indictment on Jerry) and look how Brady/BB (consensus top 4 QB/#1 coach) looked with their OL issues...

That's fair. I think Coughlin is a good coach but this team just comes out flat too often and seems to struggle to adjust a little. That's why I "only" ranked him 12th.

In comment 11923330 LAXin said:

Quote:

I think owner should also be included. Those four people are the core of any NFL franchise.

I was thinking about including Owner and I agree with you. But I feel like Mara is almost universally considered a Top 5 owner by Giants fans. Just felt unnecessary.

In comment 11923334 Vin R said:

Quote:

Eli: 1 TC: 1 JR: 1 :)

LOL you homer, I'm just gonna ignore those votes : )

Eli - 7
Tom - 4
Jerry - 16
John Mara - 2

Eli 4
Coughlin 9
Reese 5

Eli - 6
Tom - 7
Jerry - 10

I believe Eli is a top tier QB but the gunslinger approach has backfired often enough to warrant an appropriate reduction in ratings.

Tom should be considered #2 behind little Bill but far too often his team is not competitive in quite a few games, many critical.

With Reese, he has a lot of responsibility for piss poor drafting up until the 2013 draft. Thus leaving the Giants without many very good players. The 2013/2014 drafts do appear a turn around for Reese, he's done something different and it shows. However, the damage is done and he takes a hit and comes out with about a 10 right now.

All just opinion of course.

Eli 7
TC 3
Reese 14

At 3-3, you are what your record says you are.

Eli: 10
TC: 4
Reese: 14

Who is on this list of better GM's

The cartoon as well as our leaders.

1. John Schneider, Seahawks
2. Ted Thompson, Packers
3. Bill Belichick, Pats
4. Ozzie Newsome, Ravens
5. Mickey Loomis, NO
6. Trent Baalke, Niners
7. Thomas Dimitroff, Falcons
8. John Dorsey, Chiefs
9. Howie Roseman, Eagles
10. Mike Brown, Bengals
11. Tom Telesco, Chargers
12. Kevin Colbert, Steelers
13. Jacon Licht, Bucs
14. Reese, Giants.

that the Jags' David Caldwell has and how is bringing analytics to the club's draft.

.

TC-4
JR-14

Eli: 5
TC: 4
JR: 10

Eli 12
Coughlin 6
Reese 16

Eli 10
Tom 6
Reese 6

My list

when somebody thinks the Bucs GM is better than ours.

The absolute blindness at what happens to other teams around here is astounding.

QB: 8-12 with the potential of 5
HC: 2 this is a lock, BB is ahead by a smidge, despite the head to heads.
GM: 12ish - better than avg., not a standout right now. Used to be higher

Tom is the best - if not one of the 3 best coaches in football

Reece is also one of the three best GMs in Football - he always is trying to move the team in the right direction - all season and all off season - some of his moves are darned exciting - you can question his draft strategy - and since I believe he has taken risks that have paid off handsomely - I don't begrudge the risks that haven't paid off

So in Summary - I'll give:

Eli 3
Tom 2
Jerry 2

which represent the mean position of my statements above

You are right but it was hard to find 13 better GMs than Reese so I tried to spell it out and do this.

If we are going to rank him 14th or worse, you gotta come up with some logic not just 'I feel he is 14th-best' Doesn't matter if there is no logic to it at all.

top 10 like most/some seem to be?

If a team had a top 5/10 GM, a top 5/10 QB, and a top 5/10 HC, they wouldn't consistently miss the playoffs the way the Giants do.

Results may be different if you want to do historical, full-career resumes, but that's not the question here. In the now, there is zero logical way all three are "elite" at their jobs. It's not just random bad luck, no matter how badly certain people need for it to be. They wouldn't be getting shut out for the 4th time in two and a half years in humiliating fashion, they wouldn't be very likely about to miss the playoffs for the fifth time in six seasons (only one of which -- this one -- out a division of seeming quality), if Eli, TC, and JR were were all currently great at what they do.

Eli 8

TC 5

Reese 20

In comment 11923354 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
In comment 11923334 Vin R said:


Quote:


Eli: 1
TC: 1
JR: 1

:)



LOL you homer, I'm just gonna ignore those votes : ) [/quote]



hahaha

In comment 11924858 Riggies said:

Quote:

top 10 like most/some seem to be? If a team had a top 5/10 GM, a top 5/10 QB, and a top 5/10 HC, they wouldn't consistently miss the playoffs the way the Giants do. Results may be different if you want to do historical, full-career resumes, but that's not the question here. In the now, there is zero logical way all three are "elite" at their jobs. It's not just random bad luck, no matter how badly certain people need for it to be. They wouldn't be getting shut out for the 4th time in two and a half years in humiliating fashion, they wouldn't be very likely about to miss the playoffs for the fifth time in six seasons (only one of which -- this one -- out a division of seeming quality), if Eli, TC, and JR were were all currently great at what they do.

Riggies - I'm not sure this will penetrate the fog - but in the past 10 years the Giants have produced 2 Superbowl wins with those three at their respective helms - and some very exciting football - if you compare that to what the rest of the league has done over the same time period - well those are results that everyone of the 31 other teams wished they had - and don't - that is the basis -for rating them each in the top three --

And, even then, that was only a 9-7 team one that gave up more points than they scored. They were not the 2013 Seahawks that season by any stretch. They were a pretty deeply flawed team that (thankfully) got hot at the right time and caught some (glorious for us) breaks along the way.

It doesn't mean you don't appreciate that improbable title run (or the equally improbable one prior) to look at the overall picture of where this franchise is right now and largely has been in recent times.

No organization with an top-top QB, HC, and GM in place, all three locked in without question or issue, would or should miss the playoffs out of the modern day NFC East 4/5 years and likely soon to be 5/6. Maybe you want to slide them all down a bit in rankings or you want to put the mark on one or two of them more than another, but all three can't be top notch right now. It just doesn't work.

Reese won in 2007 with a roster largely built with players acquired while Accorsi was here. Reese obviously had a huge role with his drafting - but we're talking strictly as him as a GM.

Further, Reese stepped into a situation with a franchise QB and elite head coach (their value is my opinion, of course). The Super Bowl in 2011 was largely due to the elite play of the QB. I don't think he's done a good job filling in for our holes (the OL was a clear issue starting in 2010, and with those guys getting up there, it was logical to start finding replacements earlier - and then he missed on mid-round draft picks and Baas, only exacerbating the problem). He stepped into a great situation and did pretty well the first few years, but I think he's been questionable the past five - and that's including the Super Bowl year, which I credit much more to a QB he didn't draft than anything else.

So I agree with Riggies' point that you can't have all three top ten. And the guy I've blamed is Reese.

How different does this team look if Nicks was healthy, Phillips, Thomas, Wilson, S. Smith. You are looking at 3 1st and 2 2nd round picks who careers were essentially over at 25 or 26. Throw in Sintim, J. Alford & C. Jones as a 2nd & 3rd rd picks.

You have to replace these people and you have to use the draft to do so. It trickles down to pushing off other positions.

What other GM has had to deal that - none.

If there is not enough talent, it is because so much of it got hurt at a young age.

He had a All-Pro G that basically fell off a cliff before he turned 30. Almost unheard of for a top G the league.

His top RB developed dual foot issues at 25

He signed prominent FA who never missed games in 5 years and then could not stay healthy as Giants (Canty & Baas)

He had his top WR shoot himself

No other NFL team has had its No 1 WR not come back from a injury like Nicks.

Do you expect the careers of 2 TE to be ended in the 2011 SB.

He has issues like all GM's have

Eli: 7th
Tom: 5th
Jerry: 13th

Basically the same results we saw when there were only 10 votes. 25 is a decent number of posters, not a huge sample size but not a very small one for BBI either. More votes would obviously help paint a more vivid picture and I'd love to get a bunch more votes on this. But it says something that the averages haven't changed much from 10 ballots to 25.

7th ranked QB
5th ranked HC
13th ranked GM

The overall average vote for our entire QB/HC/GM trio is 8th ((7+5+13)/3).

So our QB/HC/GM trio is roughly 8th in the league right now
And our record over the past 25 games is 11-14 (4 shutout losses)

So that means...

Someone's getting overrated OR we're just extremely extremely unlucky

allowed to go through the peaks and valleys that just about every team in every sport inevitably goes through after years of sustained success? Do we factor that kind of stuff into these rankings or do we just kill Reese because the Giants have been mediocre the last 2 seasons?

Any team that goes on a 5-6-7 year run of near excellence, and the Giants definitely did just that, every good team is going to hit a wall and struggle for a bit. One team in the NFL has managed to avoid that dip--that's the Pats. And no super bowls since 2004. The Ravens have kind of maintained a long stretch of good play but they too have had bad years sprinkled over the last ten seasons or so.

Not trying to defend Reese or Coughlin or Eli, but these GM rankings are kind of tough to really determine. WHo's to say that some GM we don't even know about isn't the best prepared and his young players are about to emerge as legends over the next few years. What if the Giants win another title in 2 years? What if the Steelers do? What if Seattle finishes 9-7 this year and 9-7 next year? IS that GM still the best?

Coughlin and Eli are clearly top ten. Reese is a good GM that scouted 1000s of players and has made his mark on the NFL. He has as many pelts on his wall as any GM going. Some here rank the guy 20th? lol...ok. IF Reese left the Giants he'd get multiple GM jobs offered to him in seconds.

that Bill Walsh and Joe Montana had off years when there wasn't a salary cap i'd think it's pretty common to see great trios struggle in this era. Struggle...the Giants are 500 the last two seasons. For some teams that's a golden era. For us it's the dark ages.

In comment 11925189 djm said:

Quote:

If Reese left the Giants he'd get multiple GM jobs offered to him in seconds.

Very true. Like another poster mentioned if severe & weird injuries didn't ruin the likes of Nicks, Phillips, Thomas, Wilson, S. Smith the team would be a LOT better. That can't be blamed on Reese.

The knock I have on Jerry is the piss poor drafts prior to 2013. I forget the guy he promoted to to player evals, Marc Ross I believe but he basically didn't do a good job.

I'm sure Reese knows about those piss poor drafts and he probably changed something to have what appears to be 2 real good drafts now in a row.

In comment 11925195 djm said:

Quote:

that Bill Walsh and Joe Montana had off years when there wasn't a salary cap i'd think it's pretty common to see great trios struggle in this era. Struggle...the Giants are 500 the last two seasons. For some teams that's a golden era. For us it's the dark ages.

From Montana's first full year as the starter through the end of his time with SF, they missed the playoffs twice - 1982 and 1991. 1982 was strike shortened and Montana missed the entire year in 1991 (and they still finished with ten wins).

In comment 11925189 djm said:

Quote:

Any team that goes on a 5-6-7 year run of near excellence, and the Giants definitely did just that

I disagree. Unless the Giants somehow massively over-achieve in the next 10 weeks, come January they will have missed the play offs for the 5th time in the last 6 seasons, all in "prime years" of the best QB in franchise history.

That is not "near excellence" at all. It is nowhere near.

Yes I know all about that one wonderful title in between.

The Seahawks are an interesting example of how teams rebuilt.

They made the playoffs five years in a row from 2003-2007, winning playoff games in three of those years (and losing a Super Bowl). They then had four year of below .500 football (winning a division and playoff game in 2010 due to a weak division). Then they bounced back to win eleven games in 2012 and 13 (and the SB) in 2013.

Re-tooling during those non-playoff years is imperative, and they've hit on a number of mid-round picks. The Giants must do the same if they want to elevate themselves from that 7-9 win range.

He's a good coach, but a tad overrated around here. I'm grateful for the Super Bowls, but doesn't anyone think that the years we missed the playoffs were partially on him? We missed at least two seasons where we were right there to make the playoffs, because he wouldn't bench O'Hara and Diehl. I actually think Coughlin is more fortunate to have Eli than it is the other way around.

pin something like that on TC is if benching O'Hara and Diehl would have actually led to an improved result.

Frankly, it is speculation, and probably an errant one.

In comment 11925284 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

pin something like that on TC is if benching O'Hara and Diehl would have actually led to an improved result. Frankly, it is speculation, and probably an errant one.

Didn't he replace Sean Locklear who was performing pretty well during 2012?

if I recall correctly, our offense was playing well, and then looked awful upon his return...then Lochlear busted his acl playing as a 3rd tackle. IMO Parcells had a better feel for knowing when a guy loses it, and Coughlin lets these guys continue to play until they take the decision out of his hands.

not his fault, he was coming back from a serious injury. I think that was the year Seubert was playing Center due to his injury and Boothe was at LG. Made no sense to interrupt cohesion and re-insert O'Hara in the starting 5.