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NFT: Feminist Critic Gets Death Threats for Gaming Criticisms

Section331 : 10/16/2014 1:31 pm
I don't know if others have seen this in today's NY Times, but it's about a feminist cultural critic who wrote about the misogynistic roles women play in video games, getting death and rape threats. She recently had to cancel a talk at Utah State after getting an email from someone using the name of a Canadian mass murderer, threatening to kill attendees. Utah is an open-carry state (not intending to make this about gun laws).

WTF is wrong with people? Does anyone really argue that women in video games are poorly represented (for the most part), and are they that threatened that those roles may be changed to actually reflect, I don't know, real women?
GamerGate - ( New Window )
hoooo boy  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 1:32 pm : link
You really don't want to start a thread on this. Seriously. It's not going to end well.
Thanks, Greg, I'll delete if it gets out of hand.  
Section331 : 10/16/2014 1:34 pm : link
I'm just curious how people react to this.
While I don't support threats of violence.  
NYGmen58 : 10/16/2014 1:37 pm : link
Shame on you for taking the side of the feminist in this case.

She got the reaction she was looking for/deserved.

They're video games for crying out loud. There are plenty of video games in which female characters have leading roles (Tomb Raider, Perfect Dark, the list goes on).

What does she want to see, a RPG about female CEOs.

Delete this post before you get destroyed.
My reaction?  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 1:38 pm : link
You're presenting one side of a war that involves a helluva lot more than some lecture being cancelled by some obscure "feminist critic".
what would the point of a realistic video games?  
Blue Baller : 10/16/2014 1:40 pm : link
Who wants to play a game of madden where you can only throw the ball 15 yards and have to sit down every other play to catch your breath?
Everthing in the original post is wrong.  
NYGmen58 : 10/16/2014 1:40 pm : link
You are so off base here it makes me sick.

I guess Princess Toadstool should have been dressed like Rosie the Riveter in your mind, right?
RE: Everthing in the original post is wrong.  
Semipro Lineman : 10/16/2014 1:45 pm : link
In comment 11923426 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
You are so off base here it makes me sick.


Hands NYGmen58 a barf bag
There's been a whole mess going on in that arena...  
UAGiant : 10/16/2014 1:47 pm : link
There was a bit of a fiasco when it came to light a female game developer had numerous sexual relationship with prominent video game reviewers after her boyfriend found out she was cheating on him and went the public shaming route. Those game reviewers she was identified as having relationships with also happened to give her game publicity and positive press prior to the whole thing going public, despite it being basically a simple game that amounted to nothing more than text. This has lead to a charge against the current state of game journalism (not that its an integral outlet, but the current industry is a cesspool and highly incestuous).

This (of course) got latched onto by the nut jobs on the fringes have turned it into something that just makes you shake your head. That people are sending death threats to anyone is kind of pathetic, but to be assured - this is the reaction they wanted. A throwaway troll account sends a threat and it is suddenly blown into video game culture being a misogynist dinosaur that is enabling the abuse and exclusion of women.

To be sure, there's improvements to be had in how women are presented in various media, but this is trolls vs. trolls and people in the middle left to have bombastic articles like this written to rile casual observers up with no idea of the whole story that's been going on.
weird twitter  
Pork and Beans : 10/16/2014 1:47 pm : link
Has been on this for months.
Who gives a flying fuck...  
Dunedin81 : 10/16/2014 1:49 pm : link
whether she is right or not? The point is that she should be able to express her opinion without being placed in fear of her life.
RE: My reaction?  
Section331 : 10/16/2014 1:59 pm : link
In comment 11923423 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You're presenting one side of a war that involves a helluva lot more than some lecture being cancelled by some obscure "feminist critic".


Fair point, I shouldn't have been as editorial. Not being a gamer, I'm a little surprised that what Princess Toadstool wears has any relevance to players' enjoyment of the games.
RE: Who gives a flying fuck...  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 2:00 pm : link
In comment 11923453 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
whether she is right or not? The point is that she should be able to express her opinion without being placed in fear of her life.


Who said she shouldn't? At the same time, however, using an anonymous email threat as a trump card in a much larger controversy is frankly silly.
without even getting into the threat  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 2:04 pm : link
Sarkeesian is a hack, which is far greater sin than any gender politics. She's way out in front of her own narrative, spinning it as some damsel in distress tale when reality is she shook a hornets nest and wonders why they flew out mad.
there's some serious merit to the idea  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 2:07 pm : link
that the threats are authored by none other than their target. There's definitely smoke there.

UA's post is really good.
BIg Deal  
jtfuoco : 10/16/2014 2:07 pm : link
I get threatend with murder and death almost on a nightly basis on Xbox live and all I am doing is playing madden.
I was responding to the poster who said...  
Dunedin81 : 10/16/2014 2:08 pm : link
"shame on you for taking the side of the feminist". The idea that someone could be intimidated by a little-used twitter account may sound ridiculous, but how often do most of us experience death threats? Assuming that this is just a publicity stunt seems unfair.
Well I guess that  
buford : 10/16/2014 2:09 pm : link
confirms her claim then.

duned  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 2:11 pm : link
there's a history of attention seeking and publicity stunts. If it walks like a duck..
RE: Who gives a flying fuck...  
Bill L : 10/16/2014 2:12 pm : link
In comment 11923453 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
whether she is right or not? The point is that she should be able to express her opinion without being placed in fear of her life.


He made it a compound argument by also raising the question about how people view or are threatened by how women are graphically depicted in video games. People are focusing on the second part probably because there's nothing to discuss/argue about with the first. Of course people shouldn't be afraid to state an opinion.
ultimately, this all goes to show one thing  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 2:13 pm : link
The worst aspect of contemporary American society is the politicization of every aspect of life.
That may be the case...  
Dunedin81 : 10/16/2014 2:13 pm : link
but considering what was said to people like Michele Beadle during the Stephen A. Smith and Ray Rice mess people find it plausible.
The whole thing is seriously dumb.  
Enoch : 10/16/2014 2:15 pm : link
Sure, there are huge ethical problems in games journalism. There have been for decades, everybody knows it, and no mass movements were raging about it a few months ago. But some indie developer sleeps with a journalist who didn't even write about her stuff isn't the problem. And, as far as I know, nobody is sending death threats to the managing editor of IGN because of their relationship with EA's marketing department.

And yet, here we have threats of death and rape, publication boycotts, pressure on advertisers to pull their ad buys, etc. It's really quite silly.
I honestly can't believe they give her that much press...  
Jan in DC : 10/16/2014 2:16 pm : link
I'm not saying that she doesn't have a point. I've attempted to watch her commentary on Youtube (I believe she got funding to do them through Kickstarter) but they're boring as hell and not particularly insightful.

I think it's important that the video game industry shine a light on some of the tropes that are used constantly and examine their storytelling. A little self-reflection is good in general. But every time she drops a new installment there's about 50 articles harkening the "DEATH OF VIDEO GAMES".
again, that's paying attention to a fringe  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 2:17 pm : link
minority and overvaluing their opinion and role in a debate.

Framing any oppositon to her as that radical is very problematic.
My Understanding  
Bob in Vt : 10/16/2014 2:17 pm : link
Is that at least one of the threats reflected her home address.

If that is true - it more than just a throw away troll. It becomes much more serious issue.
RE: again, that's paying attention to a fringe  
Dunedin81 : 10/16/2014 2:18 pm : link
In comment 11923565 Nitro said:
Quote:
minority and overvaluing their opinion and role in a debate.

Framing any oppositon to her as that radical is very problematic.


I get that, but if she was in fact threatened because of it that is certainly newsworthy.
perhaps  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 2:21 pm : link
but it tramples over any of the very valid criticisms of her BS and just dumps her into the preferred position for sympathy of brave victim.
RE: The whole thing is seriously dumb.  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 2:21 pm : link
In comment 11923555 Enoch said:
Quote:
Sure, there are huge ethical problems in games journalism. There have been for decades, everybody knows it, and no mass movements were raging about it a few months ago. But some indie developer sleeps with a journalist who didn't even write about her stuff isn't the problem. And, as far as I know, nobody is sending death threats to the managing editor of IGN because of their relationship with EA's marketing department.

And yet, here we have threats of death and rape, publication boycotts, pressure on advertisers to pull their ad buys, etc. It's really quite silly.


Treating your audience with scorn and contempt is generally not considered to be a sound business practice, particularly when it comes to light that the gaming media got together to coordinate those attacks, which is why there were a bunch of "gamers are over/gaming is dead" pieces that all got published within about a day of each other. Zoe Quinn was the straw that broke the camel's back, that's all.
and just for the record  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 2:24 pm : link
That linked NYT article in the OP perputuates a misleading statistic - women make up 48% of game players only if you count Facebook shit like Farmville. If you're looking at actual, non-social media games, it's more like 20%.
RE: RE: The whole thing is seriously dumb.  
Enoch : 10/16/2014 2:30 pm : link
In comment 11923576 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 11923555 Enoch said:


Quote:


Sure, there are huge ethical problems in games journalism. There have been for decades, everybody knows it, and no mass movements were raging about it a few months ago. But some indie developer sleeps with a journalist who didn't even write about her stuff isn't the problem. And, as far as I know, nobody is sending death threats to the managing editor of IGN because of their relationship with EA's marketing department.

And yet, here we have threats of death and rape, publication boycotts, pressure on advertisers to pull their ad buys, etc. It's really quite silly.



Treating your audience with scorn and contempt is generally not considered to be a sound business practice, particularly when it comes to light that the gaming media got together to coordinate those attacks, which is why there were a bunch of "gamers are over/gaming is dead" pieces that all got published within about a day of each other. Zoe Quinn was the straw that broke the camel's back, that's all.


Oh, come now. Nobody got "attacked." Sure, it wasn't smart from a business point of view, but that doesn't come close to justifying the reaction it has gotten. If a media outlet insults you, you find somewhere else to get your news, or start your own competitor. This is what the internet is great for.

They're mostly pissed because games media folks made feminist-sounding political statements. Which triggered the same kind of knee-jerk "anti-political-correctness" derpfest that appeals to privileged folks everywhere who would prefer to pretend that they're the victim.
The amount of GamerGate-related misinformation is truly staggering.  
Audible : 10/16/2014 2:54 pm : link
I'll just leave this here.
NeoGAF - ( New Window )
RE: The amount of GamerGate-related misinformation is truly staggering.  
UAGiant : 10/16/2014 3:12 pm : link
In comment 11923644 Audible said:
Quote:
I'll just leave this here. NeoGAF - ( New Window )


Thanks for the added background - I am guilty of casually following this and chalking it up to another black mark on an outlet built on inappropriate relationships and back room dealings. Seems this has a nastier undertone than I expected.

I think there's basically a few thing most people can agree on:
- The video game industry and associated press covering it is an incestuous cesspool of backroom deals and questionable ethics, with both parties willing to offer inappropriate things (money, reviews, etc.) for favorable coverage/access/etc.
- Any death threat of violence/death/rape, whether or not its from a troll or not, is a serious and should be treated as such
- Using the actions of a fringe micro-minority to paint the majority of individuals, most of whom can function in society and not interpret how women are depicted in games as having any basis of reality are not even aware of this issue, is also not right
- Mainstream media is lazy and will paint with a broad brush to present a click-bait article and vilify an entire group - especially one as loosely defined as "gamers" - when a small subset made up of anti-social idiots stoop to these levels

Its not a justification of what's happening, but this is a self-fulfilling story. Victim shaming is not something we should engage in, but as another poster put it - this is hitting a hornet's nest and then crying to the press (and increasing your prominence in your field) when a hornet with a burner account, anonymous IP and TOR browser sends a threat for the "lolz".

There's a real conversation to be had about women in video games, the industry itself and the media around it. That conversation, however, is lost in the extremes on both sides posturing for the attention they want. Meanwhile, those that are aware are digging in and moving to the extremes - basically a total polarization (and politicization) of the industry.
no one was attacked  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 3:16 pm : link
This was all just a random coincidence, right? Note that every story is datelined either August 28 or 29...



This kind of crap is what turned a minor bunch of grumbling into a big deal.
and the core of it is this, not Zoe Quinn or Sarkeesian  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 3:24 pm : link
Quote:
•They believe that the gaming media has become infested by “Social Justice Warriors” who are using their platforms to jam their politics down the throats of people who just want to read about video games.


Again - the hyperpoliticization of every corner of life is a bad thing.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: there's some serious merit to the idea  
islander1 : 10/16/2014 4:56 pm : link
In comment 11923527 Nitro said:
Quote:
that the threats are authored by none other than their target. There's definitely smoke there.

UA's post is really good.


except for the fact that the suggested "sex for positive review" never actually happened - as it turned out. At least, I read as much on Deadspin.

Didn't stop the fallout though.
RE: RE: The amount of GamerGate-related misinformation is truly staggering.  
islander1 : 10/16/2014 5:00 pm : link
In comment 11923673 UAGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 11923644 Audible said:


Quote:


I'll just leave this here. NeoGAF - ( New Window )



Thanks for the added background - I am guilty of casually following this and chalking it up to another black mark on an outlet built on inappropriate relationships and back room dealings. Seems this has a nastier undertone than I expected.

I think there's basically a few thing most people can agree on:
- The video game industry and associated press covering it is an incestuous cesspool of backroom deals and questionable ethics, with both parties willing to offer inappropriate things (money, reviews, etc.) for favorable coverage/access/etc.
- Any death threat of violence/death/rape, whether or not its from a troll or not, is a serious and should be treated as such
- Using the actions of a fringe micro-minority to paint the majority of individuals, most of whom can function in society and not interpret how women are depicted in games as having any basis of reality are not even aware of this issue, is also not right
- Mainstream media is lazy and will paint with a broad brush to present a click-bait article and vilify an entire group - especially one as loosely defined as "gamers" - when a small subset made up of anti-social idiots stoop to these levels

Its not a justification of what's happening, but this is a self-fulfilling story. Victim shaming is not something we should engage in, but as another poster put it - this is hitting a hornet's nest and then crying to the press (and increasing your prominence in your field) when a hornet with a burner account, anonymous IP and TOR browser sends a threat for the "lolz".

There's a real conversation to be had about women in video games, the industry itself and the media around it. That conversation, however, is lost in the extremes on both sides posturing for the attention they want. Meanwhile, those that are aware are digging in and moving to the extremes - basically a total polarization (and politicization) of the industry.



In other words, it's no different than most fields out there.

Same applies to the polarization/politicization of the industry. Once it stopped being a niche group of people...
Zoe Quinn  
RB^2 : 10/16/2014 5:12 pm : link
is acceptably bangable. I had no idea who she was when I woke up this morning but I just googled her.
Also, this post constitutes the sum total of my knowledge about gaming.
What ever happened to good ol' fashioned  
SwirlingEddie : 10/16/2014 5:15 pm : link
swatting?
deadspin is a sister site of one of the accused 'corrupt' sites  
Nitro : 10/16/2014 5:36 pm : link
for full disclosure.
@Greg,  
Enoch : 10/16/2014 9:55 pm : link
So what if it was coordinated? Doesn't make the response any less stupid.
Turns out the threat had little or no credibility.  
Lurts : 10/16/2014 10:43 pm : link
"USU police, in conjunction with several teams of state and federal law enforcement experts, determined that there was no threat to students, staff or the speaker, so no alert was issued.”

Carry on.
Utah State University Bulletin - ( New Window )
RE: @Greg,  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2014 11:11 pm : link
In comment 11924206 Enoch said:
Quote:
So what if it was coordinated? Doesn't make the response any less stupid.


I get it - you agree that video games should be a platform for bludgeoning people with leftist politics. Just be forthright about it, so you don't look as stupid as you do when you admit that one of their major grievances is entirely true but simultaneously act like the entire thing is a figment of imagination.
RE: RE: @Greg,  
Enoch : 10/17/2014 8:40 am : link
In comment 11924311 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 11924206 Enoch said:


Quote:


So what if it was coordinated? Doesn't make the response any less stupid.



I get it - you agree that video games should be a platform for bludgeoning people with leftist politics. Just be forthright about it, so you don't look as stupid as you do when you admit that one of their major grievances is entirely true but simultaneously act like the entire thing is a figment of imagination.


"Should be" goes too far, and, of course, "bludgeoning" is silly hyperbole. People should be able to publish leftist critiques of games and games culture if they want to. Or right-wing critiques. Or critiques based on Zoroastrian aesthetic principles.

A reasonable response for those offended by games criticism would be "you're wrong because ___" or "I'm not going to read that publication anymore" or "whatever, I'm still pre-ordering Slutshooter 4: The Revenge of the Teabagger." Instead, we got a massive rage-fest (with a side-line of abuse and intimidation) about "social justice warriors" who were out to censor games. Childish and stupid.

Enoch  
MadPlaid : 10/17/2014 10:43 am : link
Quote:
I'm still pre-ordering Slutshooter 4: The Revenge of the Teabagger."

That is hilarious. Perfect name for FPS parody.
RE: Enoch  
Cam in MO : 10/17/2014 11:43 am : link
In comment 11924764 MadPlaid said:
Quote:


Quote:


I'm still pre-ordering Slutshooter 4: The Revenge of the Teabagger."


That is hilarious. Perfect name for FPS parody.


Fixed.




Cam  
MadPlaid : 10/17/2014 11:48 am : link
Ha! That is better.
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