we were never, ever going to draft him and should've drafted Aaron Donald. Seriously, nice of our players to weigh in, but again, Zack is surrounded by studs. It always helps when you don't play next to Walton the Weakling, Will Beaten, Jerry the Joke and Mrs. Barwin.
I don't even have to even post anymore. Good to see that some of you are starting to realize that drafting a WR was a mistake.
Your slow play trolling bores all of us. I think you and State of the Giants 14 should smear your lipstick on one last time and go out in a blaze of glory.
Martin was a distant choice to me, albeit one I preferred over Beckam. The truth is that line play wins in this league and our OL was and is bad. John Jerry and J.D. Walton are borderline NFL starters and Justin Pugh needs to be inside at RG. I'm assuming the Giants saw Martin as Pugh 2.0 and didn't want to add another guard type to the OL so early. I think it was a mistake passing on a guy like Brandin Cooks who can do a ton in an offense, or Kelvin Benjamin because of his size and ability to come through in the clutch.
That said, Beckam appears to be the goods and not believing in this teams' ability to find WR talent is like thinking Michael Bay will suddenly make a good flick. He's similar to Cruz, or so I thought but two games in (not a great sample I know) he looks to be a legitimate down field threat who can also do the intermediate dirty work because of his hands and ability to track the ball. I didn't like the pick, I said then and will admit it now because I thought our DL and OL were bigger needs. It's way too early to count this one, we thought Nicks was the deal of the century and he helped us win a title and is flabby and lazy now. Was that title worth it? Yep, I think so and he dutifully replaced Toomer/Burress as someone the D needs to account for. We needed another guy like that and it appears Beckam is it.
My issue though is fundamental, you build inside out and we are not doing that. The Falcons have insane skill talent and a gifted QB but they can't block or stop the run and they struggle because they go for the sexy move. Dimitroff wants flash over substance, always has and I fear Ross is similar. We have made a living with FA and middle to late round OL with the occasional Snee to fit in and solidify the OL. Our SB lines had a 5th, UDFA from Oakland, 2nd from San Fran, 2nd from BC and FA from the Jets, another UDFA (Seubert) and a castoff from the Browns at center. Boothe, Seubert, O'Hara, Diehl, Baas were not on anyone's list as premier players but they developed into solid to very good players because we had a Snee and McKenzie who were high draft, high talent guys and they were together for a long time.
Our current OL has an up and down highly drafted LT, highly drafted LG, castoff C, castoff RG and miscast RT. Can they become good enough? Probably, if Schwartz comes back and plays RT or RG, PUgh kicks in, Richburg moves to C and Walton or Jerry take a seat as depth. Beatty is the LT, Pugh is the RT, that is set in stone. Schwartz to LG, Richburg to C and maybe Jerry can settle in at RG. Most likely we'll see Schwartz to LG, Richburg and Jerry battling at RG and the status quo remains. If you want an athletic pulling LG, make it Pugh, move Richburg to C, keep Jerry at RG and put Schwartz at RT but that will never happen.
We lack quality starters, not depth. Beatty, Schwartz, Pugh and Richburg can man 4 spots, but we need either a mobile LG or physical RT so Pugh moves inside but that's not simply happening. Pugh's shortcomings at RT are clear to anyone who watches a game but he's clearly our best option and if we had taken Martin, maybe Pugh moves inside or Martin is to his left and we're OK there but we didn't.
Don't think for one second all this slobbering isn't for a reason. You don't have an article with very good DL praising a rookie because it's fun, it's gamesmanship to seek an edge, nothing more. The Giants are happy they have Beckam and with Randle up and down, Jernigan washed out and Cruz hurt, we are damn lucky we have him.
Two weeks ago the giants line received a ton of praise , from fans, beat writers and tv . All that time eli had wasn't a fluke . The eagles defense just had a better plan than the other teams we played and the executed almost perfectly. The giants will adjust and gameplan to fix this. My bigger concern was the giants not making adjustments in game. We had the same results on each drive because we tried almost the exact same thing every drive. It was really hard to watch. It will be interesting how teams play us from here on out. I think every defense that plays us this year , was watching that game and saying , ok so Iwe just press on the wr and blitz every play. Hopefully we adjust!
OK - I read more carefully. You like Schwartz at RT and Pugh inside. Interesting, but you also need a RT that can handle the speed rush and a G who can anchor and move huge NTs/DTs.
Mostly, I just think Pugh is best at RT and Schwartz is best at RG.
Agree with Joey that you have to build from the lines out.
No matter how the rules change, you still have to control the line of scrimmage. I would have taken Martin. I don't agree with those that say "you don't take a guard at 12". Why not? If a guy is a top 15 talent, who cares?
Why are we judging this draft pick 6 games into the season and when our pick has only played 2 games?
It's not a knock on Beckham. The issue is that no matter how good the WRs might be, it won't matter because the QB can't get them the ball if he is constantly under siege. Refer to Sunday's game film for visual proof. The Iggles just ran with Beckham down the field while the pocket collapsed around Eli in a snap of the fingers.
Right now the OL features a 2, 2, 3, 3, 1 as far as draft picks. Yes, Walton & Jerry are on their second team and have been mixed. Walton was a good player before his injury. Jerry started 57 of 64 games.
Ohara was a nobody as was McKenzie when they were signed. Did anyone really expect Deihl, as a 5th to be that good. Suebert was un-drafted.
Look at their 86 team. LT - 8th rd, LG - 8th, C - UDFA, RG - UDFA, RT - 3rd. They ran the ball on everybody
You want to get an elite LT, lose more and draft top 10 - that is where most of them are picked.
Evan Mathis was on 3 different teams in 6 years as a b/u before the Eagles and before he became a top level G.
What continues to get lost in this with Martin is which player do the Giants have on the outside that compares to Bryant to scare defenses - ? Murray, when healthy has been successful running for them since he came into the league -
We can argue all we want about who JR should have picked first
I thought we needed three top picks for the O-line this year and would have settled for two. Maybe now with Cruz out it's a blessing that JR took Beckham.
The problem and my problem with JR was the one thing we all knew had to be fixed going into this season was the O-Line.
Clearly to me, this was not done. I'm actually shocked that Eagles game aside, this line looks a little better than last year's line. Can this line play that good against the better teams we are about to play? I have no faith that they can but I hope I'm wrong. Either way, we are about to find out.
My only concern is that JR is intelligent enough to finally realize that all the primary weapons in the world are completely useless without a first class O-line to open holes for the runners and give the QB time to hit the receivers.
in the modern NFL. OB is going to be an impact player for NYG, have some patience.
The OL stinks, but if you believe the WR is the better player you draft him, and allocate other resources to the OL. OL or bust isn't a wise strategy.
The problem is Reese has consistently pushed off doing so and swung for the fences on players like Sintim and Austin, who carried some significant risks, and taking fliers on Barden, Jernigan, Hosley, among others whom it's clear they overdrafted.
and how promising OB looks, some still don't grasp the need we had at WR once Nicks had been let go. OB was a replacement for him, and a hedge against Randle's various shortcomings. They believe he's an difference-maker.
We had (have) significant needs on the OL and DL, without question, but teams are scrambling early in drafts to secure QB, WR, DE, and CB.
we definitely have the shittiest WRs in the NFL this very moment and that's even if Cruz didn't die on the field last week.
We'd be fucked if we didn't have a guy like BEckham in the pipeline. We won't be drafing 12th again in 2015 so the odds of us landing a blue chip nuclear talent at WR are slim to none. We HAD to get a guy like Beckham on this roster.
seeing as how we have an abundance of talent at WR right now. Without Beckham the Giants would be starting Parker with newly signed Ogletree as our slot receiver.
Reese got a stud WR and a comparable OG in the second. If Reese went Martin in the 1st, which WR left would be comparable to OBJ?? After watching the play of Richburg, I feel as if the giants got two 1st round graded players rather than just 1 in martin.
the Cowboys have a great running back, a HOF tight end and a fast and big wideout, one of the best in football, in Bryant. The Cowboys were 5th in points scored last season. Murray was 5th in the league in rushing last season despite missing two games.
You can all continue to go on and on about all-everything Zack Martin, but the Cowboys have a few more pieces that we don't have as well and were a pretty damn good offensive team last season. They would be a good offensive team this season without Zack Martin
you can't fix everything, esp the state our OL was in, in one year.
We have the interior almost set, with Richburg and Schwartz. It could be entirely set if Pugh is eventually moved inside......
Beatty is still a tackle you can win with IMO.
The big question right now is does Pugh eventually settle inside and we take tackle, potentially, with our first pick. Or, do we keep it as is and draft a guard in round 2 and again going with a premium position in Round 1.
we had the best young OL in the league. Now it's the worst OL in the NFL once again.
Jesus Christ can you guys let the season play out before condemning this OL? They have played 2 bad games and 4 good games. That's what young OLs do.
BEckham was a value and need pick. We didn't need another guard/tackle and BEckham is a potential boon for this offense.
Agreed. Our OL is probably somewhere in the middle. They had an awful game. It happens unfotunately, esp for a unit that has played a grand total of six games together.
does anyone honestly think the Giants are 4-2 or 5-1 right now if Zack Martin is playing in the place of Jerry? Really?
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
We've had two good looking drafts back to back seasons. There's some things that should bother us but the last two drafts look damn good.
would look like now had they foolishly drafted Martin?
No Cruz, no Beckham but we'd have 2 pretty good rookie guards. Not going anywhere with Randle and some JAGs.
Even if the Giants did not pick Richburg in the second round but took a WR, they'd have Martin for Richburg (pretty much a wash right now) and a big downgrade with a round 2 WR over Beckham.
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
Richburg was drafted as a C. The Giants needed 2-3 interior linemen, so yes, I do believe the Giants could have and should have drafted two lineman in rounds 1-2. While I can't say the Giants would have won another game with Martin, given Beckham's production this season has been meaningless to any game we won, I'd say there's a chance.
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
Richburg was drafted as a C. The Giants needed 2-3 interior linemen, so yes, I do believe the Giants could have and should have drafted two lineman in rounds 1-2. While I can't say the Giants would have won another game with Martin, given Beckham's production this season has been meaningless to any game we won, I'd say there's a chance.
Wtf? Did you forget about Atlanta already? Or are you just stupid enough to think that he had no effect on the outcome?
BBI has become unbearable. It really has. First it was Donald. Now that he's off the radar, it's Martin. Once Martin starts to struggle, it will be one of the hundreds of guys drafted not named Beckham. This is what we get to look forward to every single fucking week for the rest of OBJ's career. When the Giants lose, and he doesn't go for 10/135/2, BBI will implode because the Giants didn't take (fill in the blank with whoever is playing well at this moment).
Yes, I am stupid enough to think we would've won the Atlanta game
without Beckham. The margin of difference was 10 points. He scored a TD from field goal range. There's 4 pts. We still would've won by six. He was responsible for 44 receiving yards in that game. I'm not ready to say he was the difference.
I suggested we drafted Martin on draft day. Beckham may be a great WR, but he was a riskier pick. We can't afford to roll the dice. We need o-lineman. It's not a luxury the way a speedy receiver is. A poor receiver won't get Eli killed. A poor lineman will. And with enough time, any NFL receiver can get open.
that just proves that you have no clue what you're talking about. Beckham had a much larger effect on that game than simply looking at his stats. He drew numerous PI penalties and Atlanta had no answer for him. The Giants were struggling (and losing), until he became a presence. Also, since your stance is that they haven't won a game because of him, which is utter bullshit anyways, but I'll play along. Which game/games that the Giants have lost do you think they would have won if they had Martin at RG?
And of course you wanted them to draft Martin. It's obvious by your posts. You're a shitty fan. Instead of embracing OBJ, and hoping he turns into an all pro, you want the world to know how "right" you were.
you're acting like John Jerry is responsible for this teams failures and Martin would have been the savior. It's bullshit. When the line has struggled, its been the entire line.
It's not just the Martin fan club either. Before them it was the Donald fan club. Fortunately, Hankins has shut those guys up, for now. Hopefully Beckham,mand Schwartz getting healthy will do the same to your club.
Your slow play trolling bores all of us. I think you and State of the Giants 14 should smear your lipstick on one last time and go out in a blaze of glory.
Another brutal loss for your Jets tonight. Too bad. 1-6. Season over. See ya.
That said, Beckam appears to be the goods and not believing in this teams' ability to find WR talent is like thinking Michael Bay will suddenly make a good flick. He's similar to Cruz, or so I thought but two games in (not a great sample I know) he looks to be a legitimate down field threat who can also do the intermediate dirty work because of his hands and ability to track the ball. I didn't like the pick, I said then and will admit it now because I thought our DL and OL were bigger needs. It's way too early to count this one, we thought Nicks was the deal of the century and he helped us win a title and is flabby and lazy now. Was that title worth it? Yep, I think so and he dutifully replaced Toomer/Burress as someone the D needs to account for. We needed another guy like that and it appears Beckam is it.
My issue though is fundamental, you build inside out and we are not doing that. The Falcons have insane skill talent and a gifted QB but they can't block or stop the run and they struggle because they go for the sexy move. Dimitroff wants flash over substance, always has and I fear Ross is similar. We have made a living with FA and middle to late round OL with the occasional Snee to fit in and solidify the OL. Our SB lines had a 5th, UDFA from Oakland, 2nd from San Fran, 2nd from BC and FA from the Jets, another UDFA (Seubert) and a castoff from the Browns at center. Boothe, Seubert, O'Hara, Diehl, Baas were not on anyone's list as premier players but they developed into solid to very good players because we had a Snee and McKenzie who were high draft, high talent guys and they were together for a long time.
Our current OL has an up and down highly drafted LT, highly drafted LG, castoff C, castoff RG and miscast RT. Can they become good enough? Probably, if Schwartz comes back and plays RT or RG, PUgh kicks in, Richburg moves to C and Walton or Jerry take a seat as depth. Beatty is the LT, Pugh is the RT, that is set in stone. Schwartz to LG, Richburg to C and maybe Jerry can settle in at RG. Most likely we'll see Schwartz to LG, Richburg and Jerry battling at RG and the status quo remains. If you want an athletic pulling LG, make it Pugh, move Richburg to C, keep Jerry at RG and put Schwartz at RT but that will never happen.
We lack quality starters, not depth. Beatty, Schwartz, Pugh and Richburg can man 4 spots, but we need either a mobile LG or physical RT so Pugh moves inside but that's not simply happening. Pugh's shortcomings at RT are clear to anyone who watches a game but he's clearly our best option and if we had taken Martin, maybe Pugh moves inside or Martin is to his left and we're OK there but we didn't.
Don't think for one second all this slobbering isn't for a reason. You don't have an article with very good DL praising a rookie because it's fun, it's gamesmanship to seek an edge, nothing more. The Giants are happy they have Beckam and with Randle up and down, Jernigan washed out and Cruz hurt, we are damn lucky we have him.
Without a good offensive line you will not score many points or win many games, and without a good Defense you will not win championships. period..
If the Giants don't fix these Oline issues soon, this team will continue to look bad each week. Something has to change.
Based on that one game, you want to move him inside? (Or have you been advocating this move?)
Regardless, with Schwartz best at RG, this group is best with Pugh at RT. I don't like anyone else we have there right now.
Mostly, I just think Pugh is best at RT and Schwartz is best at RG.
It's not a knock on Beckham. The issue is that no matter how good the WRs might be, it won't matter because the QB can't get them the ball if he is constantly under siege. Refer to Sunday's game film for visual proof. The Iggles just ran with Beckham down the field while the pocket collapsed around Eli in a snap of the fingers.
Ohara was a nobody as was McKenzie when they were signed. Did anyone really expect Deihl, as a 5th to be that good. Suebert was un-drafted.
Look at their 86 team. LT - 8th rd, LG - 8th, C - UDFA, RG - UDFA, RT - 3rd. They ran the ball on everybody
You want to get an elite LT, lose more and draft top 10 - that is where most of them are picked.
Evan Mathis was on 3 different teams in 6 years as a b/u before the Eagles and before he became a top level G.
What continues to get lost in this with Martin is which player do the Giants have on the outside that compares to Bryant to scare defenses - ? Murray, when healthy has been successful running for them since he came into the league -
The problem and my problem with JR was the one thing we all knew had to be fixed going into this season was the O-Line.
Clearly to me, this was not done. I'm actually shocked that Eagles game aside, this line looks a little better than last year's line. Can this line play that good against the better teams we are about to play? I have no faith that they can but I hope I'm wrong. Either way, we are about to find out.
My only concern is that JR is intelligent enough to finally realize that all the primary weapons in the world are completely useless without a first class O-line to open holes for the runners and give the QB time to hit the receivers.
Frankly, I don't think JR understands this!
The OL stinks, but if you believe the WR is the better player you draft him, and allocate other resources to the OL. OL or bust isn't a wise strategy.
The problem is Reese has consistently pushed off doing so and swung for the fences on players like Sintim and Austin, who carried some significant risks, and taking fliers on Barden, Jernigan, Hosley, among others whom it's clear they overdrafted.
Really, have you looked at the WRs on the roster recently? OBJr is the best by far.
We had (have) significant needs on the OL and DL, without question, but teams are scrambling early in drafts to secure QB, WR, DE, and CB.
Jesus Christ can you guys let the season play out before condemning this OL? They have played 2 bad games and 4 good games. That's what young OLs do.
BEckham was a value and need pick. We didn't need another guard/tackle and BEckham is a potential boon for this offense.
We'd be fucked if we didn't have a guy like BEckham in the pipeline. We won't be drafing 12th again in 2015 so the odds of us landing a blue chip nuclear talent at WR are slim to none. We HAD to get a guy like Beckham on this roster.
Please go away you are an embarrassment.
And I should be crying. Will this team ever step up and fight?
You can all continue to go on and on about all-everything Zack Martin, but the Cowboys have a few more pieces that we don't have as well and were a pretty damn good offensive team last season. They would be a good offensive team this season without Zack Martin
We have the interior almost set, with Richburg and Schwartz. It could be entirely set if Pugh is eventually moved inside......
Beatty is still a tackle you can win with IMO.
The big question right now is does Pugh eventually settle inside and we take tackle, potentially, with our first pick. Or, do we keep it as is and draft a guard in round 2 and again going with a premium position in Round 1.
Jesus Christ can you guys let the season play out before condemning this OL? They have played 2 bad games and 4 good games. That's what young OLs do.
BEckham was a value and need pick. We didn't need another guard/tackle and BEckham is a potential boon for this offense.
Agreed. Our OL is probably somewhere in the middle. They had an awful game. It happens unfotunately, esp for a unit that has played a grand total of six games together.
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
We've had two good looking drafts back to back seasons. There's some things that should bother us but the last two drafts look damn good.
No Cruz, no Beckham but we'd have 2 pretty good rookie guards. Not going anywhere with Randle and some JAGs.
Even if the Giants did not pick Richburg in the second round but took a WR, they'd have Martin for Richburg (pretty much a wash right now) and a big downgrade with a round 2 WR over Beckham.
Jesus Christ can you guys let the season play out before condemning this OL? They have played 2 bad games and 4 good games. That's what young OLs do.
BEckham was a value and need pick. We didn't need another guard/tackle and BEckham is a potential boon for this offense.
And why BBI gets more and more intolerable..Some change their opinions as much as a baby's diaper..Embarrassing
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
Richburg was drafted as a C. The Giants needed 2-3 interior linemen, so yes, I do believe the Giants could have and should have drafted two lineman in rounds 1-2. While I can't say the Giants would have won another game with Martin, given Beckham's production this season has been meaningless to any game we won, I'd say there's a chance.
Quote:
IF NY drafts Martin i'd venture to say there is no way in hell they draft Richburg in round 2. No way in hell they take 2 linemen first 2 rounds let alone two interior linemen...
Richburg was drafted as a C. The Giants needed 2-3 interior linemen, so yes, I do believe the Giants could have and should have drafted two lineman in rounds 1-2. While I can't say the Giants would have won another game with Martin, given Beckham's production this season has been meaningless to any game we won, I'd say there's a chance.
Wtf? Did you forget about Atlanta already? Or are you just stupid enough to think that he had no effect on the outcome?
BBI has become unbearable. It really has. First it was Donald. Now that he's off the radar, it's Martin. Once Martin starts to struggle, it will be one of the hundreds of guys drafted not named Beckham. This is what we get to look forward to every single fucking week for the rest of OBJ's career. When the Giants lose, and he doesn't go for 10/135/2, BBI will implode because the Giants didn't take (fill in the blank with whoever is playing well at this moment).
I suggested we drafted Martin on draft day. Beckham may be a great WR, but he was a riskier pick. We can't afford to roll the dice. We need o-lineman. It's not a luxury the way a speedy receiver is. A poor receiver won't get Eli killed. A poor lineman will. And with enough time, any NFL receiver can get open.
And of course you wanted them to draft Martin. It's obvious by your posts. You're a shitty fan. Instead of embracing OBJ, and hoping he turns into an all pro, you want the world to know how "right" you were.
It's not just the Martin fan club either. Before them it was the Donald fan club. Fortunately, Hankins has shut those guys up, for now. Hopefully Beckham,mand Schwartz getting healthy will do the same to your club.