it seems for short term gain he really screwed up his career by leaving the Giants. It appears he has become a pariah around the league in terms of a DC position. Is he still coaching for someone? Why wouldn't we consider bringing him back should PF get fired.?
Would hardly say he screwed his career up.
And being a rookie head coach, he made some glaring mistakes too.
His third stop, New Orleans, was a team in turmoil.
He'll get another shot one day, maybe.
The stink may wear off eventually. Hope he gets another crack.
he could scheme a blitz, at least.
The mistake, IMO, was going to NO afterward. I think he might have been better taking a job as DC or even a position coach elsewhere, that NO situation following the suspension just looked too caustic to work for anyone.
And yes, Spags is a genius! Like the guy above said, Saints had no talent whatsoever. None of their defensive players had any NFL ability and the Saints' D mysteriously got better when Spags left.
SPAGS!!!
Why hire him as DC? I say make him the HC!
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St. Steven is the leagues biggest secret. He's a stud DC but no one knows it. We will uncover the secret and remind the NFL of what they missed out on when we fire Perry FOOL and re-hire St. Steven.
he could scheme a blitz, at least.
Yeah, 25th in the league in sacks in New Orleans and near the bottom of the league in pressures in 2012. So.. his awesome blitzes apparently took the year off there.
And yes, Spags is a genius! Like the guy above said, Saints had no talent whatsoever. None of their defensive players had any NFL ability and the Saints' D mysteriously got better when Spags left.
SPAGS!!!
Why hire him as DC? I say make him the HC!
Why stop there? Why not just give him the GM title while we're at it? Or even better, have Mara sign over his half of the team so Spags can rule with complete authority.
One of our geniuses even ranked the Bucs GM as higher than him.
I can't understand why people would hold accepting a HC position - the promised land for thousands of football coaches across the country at all levels - against him or why people feel the need to talk shit about him.
Personally, I wish him well and hope he works his way back to the upper levels of the NFL coaching ranks. He had some rough times but he also demonstrated that he has the ability.
Funny how ungood you become when you lack the talent you had in one location.
When I look at our roster, I just don't see many guys that I'd be sending. Rolle has shown that he can do it but do you really want to send the only good safety you've got into their backfield on pass plays? What happens if he doesn't get there?
It seems like almost every time I've seen Perry try to send one of these LB's, they run right into a lineman and take themselves out of the play.
EIther that or the linemen get in each other's way and clog themselves up.
Funny how ungood you become when you lack the talent you had in one location.
Sure you could. Who needs coaches anyway? Teams should just get rid of coaches and let the players draw their own plays in the dirt.
And yes, Spags is a genius! Like the guy above said, Saints had no talent whatsoever. None of their defensive players had any NFL ability and the Saints' D mysteriously got better when Spags left.
SPAGS!!!
Why hire him as DC? I say make him the HC!
You know that quite a few of his main defensive players were implicated and suspended. His defensive leader was one of them. Additionally in the whole choas he couldn't teach them his defense and shit just rolled down hill... He got the job, then the guy that hired him was suspended for the whole season, His players were being blamed for their past transgressions and their appeals were going on while they were expected to play....And in his attacking defense he needs the MLB to recognize plays and set up the defense appropriately.. With the distractions to their LBs that season there was no way they were going to pick up his complex defense... i'd take him over Fewell any day.. Other than a six game stretch, Fewell's defense has always disappointed...
Then he had a decent couple of years here.
He went to the bottom tier of HC positions without really sniffing any of the more coveted positions, but it was still a HC job. Did nothing since then.
There's really only one reason Giants fans pine for him: he had a good, but short, run with the Giants. IF he did the exact same career path, except substitute any other team not named Giants, and we'd laugh hysterically whenever anyone brought his name up.
He then takes an even worse job - probably the biggest black hole job in professional sports - on the staff of the Bounty-gated Saints. the entire organization mailed that season in before it began.
the stench of failure was huge at that point. he left here a respected and likable figure and after failing miserably at two dead-end jobs rumors surfaced he was being an asshole to people. Now he's out of a job.
Sometimes a bad rep and bad career decisions kill you. Same thing happened with Jim Fassell, who was just as good a coach as many yes-men retreads who continued in the league.
He then takes an even worse job - probably the biggest black hole job in professional sports - on the staff of the Bounty-gated Saints. the entire organization mailed that season in before it began.
the stench of failure was huge at that point. he left here a respected and likable figure and after failing miserably at two dead-end jobs rumors surfaced he was being an asshole to people. Now he's out of a job.
Sometimes a bad rep and bad career decisions kill you. Same thing happened with Jim Fassell, who was just as good a coach as many yes-men retreads who continued in the league.
Um, no he's not.
And Fassel pretty clearly got blackballed. Not sure how Jim made "bad choices" when he simply could not get an NFL level job after being fired by NYG.
I think I'd prefer him to Fewell solely because I (and the players) would rather play attacking D than read & react D.
Fewell gets me nervous.
That and stories about his work ethic seem to imply that Fassel might have just thought he deserved a second HC spot and wasn't putting in the work he needed to actually get one.
Never fails.
Know why Seattle's defense was so good last year? Their front 4 were annihilating people. Quinn didn't blitz a ton. He didn't need to. He could be aggressive with his CB's on the outside because they had safety valves. They weren't playing Cover 0 and throwing the kitchen sink at everyone.
People just have these perceptions about NFL defenses that for whatever reason, they will just not let go of.
As for Spags I would like him back simply because that's what he WANTS to do. Yeah he was terrible with the Saints but so would nearly anyone else be that year. Terrible situation, terrible personnel and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere at that time he got away from blitz and went more zone in N.O. because the personnel was so bad.
As for Spags I would like him back simply because that's what he WANTS to do. Yeah he was terrible with the Saints but so would nearly anyone else be that year. Terrible situation, terrible personnel and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere at that time he got away from blitz and went more zone in N.O. because the personnel was so bad.
How is this roster built that way?
Which players on this roster have excelled as blitzers in the past? How many CB's besides Prince have excelled in playing press/man coverage?
As for Spags I would like him back simply because that's what he WANTS to do. Yeah he was terrible with the Saints but so would nearly anyone else be that year. Terrible situation, terrible personnel and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere at that time he got away from blitz and went more zone in N.O. because the personnel was so bad.
Was just gonna say you can be a fking scheming genius, but if you don't have the pieces to carry it out, well...
We run zone looks but so does every defense.
I don't know where this whole notion that Fewell is trotting out zone looks and doesn't use any man coverage came from but it's just not true.
We run zone looks but so does every defense.
I don't know where this whole notion that Fewell is trotting out zone looks and doesn't use any man coverage came from but it's just not true.
Maybe because when he uses the zone looks, they don't work and thats the only time anyone is paying attention...when something goes wrong.
Therefore, it must happen...
EVERY PLAY.
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And just to add to my last post, DRC is obviously excellent in man coverage but he's been playing that for the most part. It's not like Fewell has him in zones constantly. He's covering outside WR's. As is Prince.
We run zone looks but so does every defense.
I don't know where this whole notion that Fewell is trotting out zone looks and doesn't use any man coverage came from but it's just not true.
Maybe because when he uses the zone looks, they don't work and thats the only time anyone is paying attention...when something goes wrong.
Therefore, it must happen...
EVERY PLAY.
Haha. Yeah, but when we get beat 1 on 1 (like DRC on Ertz) for a long TD, apparently that doesn't matter. Because man coverage always works.. zone never does.
He's a good DC, but let's also remember correctly that his highest levels of success with NYG were very short-lived. The defense wasn't killing it during his entire tenure, let's keep that in mind.
My guess is if they have another .500 or worse season, there will be some staff changes and possibly front office changes as well.
You don't want to panic of course, but they have been a .500 plus or minus a few since the Super Bowl run and that leads me to believe the issues are more than talent acquisition.
That and stories about his work ethic seem to imply that Fassel might have just thought he deserved a second HC spot and wasn't putting in the work he needed to actually get one.
Fassel didn't necessarily get blackballed, but if a team asked the Giants to vouch for him, they weren't going to do it based on personal antics. That closed a lot of doors for him.
He also didn't help himself with the Baltimore tenure when his own friend Billick threw him under the bus. the Washington papers tell the story that Fassel was the guy until Zorn won over Danny with his rah-rah stuff.
Fassel should've went back to college to coach, but was too stubborn and/or arrogant.
Funny how ungood you become when you lack the talent you had in one location.
I'm sure 10balls 120 rating didnt help the case....
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the way the roster is built dictates a blitz heavy, man coverage defense which is opposite of what Fewell wants to do.
As for Spags I would like him back simply because that's what he WANTS to do. Yeah he was terrible with the Saints but so would nearly anyone else be that year. Terrible situation, terrible personnel and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere at that time he got away from blitz and went more zone in N.O. because the personnel was so bad.
How is this roster built that way?
Which players on this roster have excelled as blitzers in the past? How many CB's besides Prince have excelled in playing press/man coverage?
Well DRC like you mentioned. I think McBride is good in man coverage. We brought in Thurmond. We brought back Ross last year. Will Hill played good man coverage from the safety position. Yes, all teams play some zone but from a base D I think this team is better suited for man coverage and it's been that way since JR has been GM.
As for blitzing, I don't think it's so much how often but the scheme. When Spags was here players came from all over and there were different looks. Sometimes D-lineman didn't drop they just opened holes for LBs as Olineman would for an RB. I don't see any of that with Fewell but I do with some of the better pass rushing teams in the league.
Even if we don't do that I would love to see players move around more. I was shocked to see JPP play LDE for a few snaps last week and quite frankly I'd like to see it more against the Cowboys, especially with a journeyman backup at RT. Look at JJ Watt. He doesn't stay in one place and it gives other teams something to think about. Think of the big Osi game against the the Eagles in '07. It was the same thing. Though he mostly abused Winston Justice, he was all over the line that game, same as Stray, Tuck, etc. during those years. Not just in one spot making it easier to scheme against.
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In comment 11924954 sjnyfan said:
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the way the roster is built dictates a blitz heavy, man coverage defense which is opposite of what Fewell wants to do.
As for Spags I would like him back simply because that's what he WANTS to do. Yeah he was terrible with the Saints but so would nearly anyone else be that year. Terrible situation, terrible personnel and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere at that time he got away from blitz and went more zone in N.O. because the personnel was so bad.
How is this roster built that way?
Which players on this roster have excelled as blitzers in the past? How many CB's besides Prince have excelled in playing press/man coverage?
Well DRC like you mentioned. I think McBride is good in man coverage. We brought in Thurmond. We brought back Ross last year. Will Hill played good man coverage from the safety position. Yes, all teams play some zone but from a base D I think this team is better suited for man coverage and it's been that way since JR has been GM.
As for blitzing, I don't think it's so much how often but the scheme. When Spags was here players came from all over and there were different looks. Sometimes D-lineman didn't drop they just opened holes for LBs as Olineman would for an RB. I don't see any of that with Fewell but I do with some of the better pass rushing teams in the league.
Even if we don't do that I would love to see players move around more. I was shocked to see JPP play LDE for a few snaps last week and quite frankly I'd like to see it more against the Cowboys, especially with a journeyman backup at RT. Look at JJ Watt. He doesn't stay in one place and it gives other teams something to think about. Think of the big Osi game against the the Eagles in '07. It was the same thing. Though he mostly abused Winston Justice, he was all over the line that game, same as Stray, Tuck, etc. during those years. Not just in one spot making it easier to scheme against.
We lost Thurmond after a game and a half so I don't really know how we'd know how Fewell would have deployed him. McBride was also lost after about 2 games of action. I don't recall him being wandering around in zones often and he forced a couple turnovers so he must have been in the right spots to do so.
Hill was far more dynamic and capable of handling someone 1 on 1. We've seen Stevie Brown and Demps both take awful angles and get beaten plenty early on in this year. I think it's a personnel issue there. Fewell knew Hill was a far better player than the guys who have replaced him and Hill was making plays all over the field. McBride also went from a guy who had bounced around the league and couldn't stay on anyone's roster to a guy who played very good football under Fewell and was a solid starting CB last year (and in his short time this year)
Fewell has moved guys around on the DL, he had the "NASCAR" package where he used Tuck, Osi, JPP and Kiwi as his 4 down linemen. So I don't think it's fair to say he won't move anyone around or always pits them in the same spots. He's had Ayers come from a few different spots and Ayers has been excellent for the most part so Perry must be doing something right with him. He'll slide Jenkins over to DE, he's done some shuffling.
The blitzing hasn't been so effective and maybe Fewell isn't at his strongest designing them or confusing teams with looks but I also really do not see many players in the back 7 that I'd trust to get home if they're sent and if you don't think your guy is going to get there, all you're doing is taking him out of the play.
he could scheme a blitz, at least.
+1
This I agree with 100% and my biggest problem. It doesn't matter what players you have, if you keep throwing the same look at an opponent they'll figure it out and scheme against it. Yes we do NASCAR but it's just Spags's Four Aces. Sure Ayers and Jenkins can play a little in and out but as I told a friend, it's not like we're trying to feng shui living room furniture for aesthetic pleasure.
Scheme is just as important as personnel. Look at the Cowboys. No one is going to tell me that they have a better defensive roster than we do. But give credit to Marinelli for getting them in the right place, coaching them up and executing at the LOS even with the losses they've had and the disaster they were last year
Don't ever forget what he did for us.
There was never any questioning by his players what his plan was and his players would follow him to hell and back.
Word.
TO's aren't everything. Spags scoring defense was ranked 17th in 2007 despite giving up 80 points in the first two games while they figured the D out. They only gave up more than 21 points twice after that including the postseason. In year two they were 5th.
Fewell's scoring D have been ranked 17th, 25th, 12th, 18th and this year so far 17th.
This year the top two scoring defenses Detroit and San Diego are tied for 13th in turnovers. They both have winning records though.
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The blitzing hasn't been so effective and maybe Fewell isn't at his strongest designing them or confusing teams with looks...
This I agree with 100% and my biggest problem. It doesn't matter what players you have, if you keep throwing the same look at an opponent they'll figure it out and scheme against it. Yes we do NASCAR but it's just Spags's Four Aces. Sure Ayers and Jenkins can play a little in and out but as I told a friend, it's not like we're trying to feng shui living room furniture for aesthetic pleasure.
Scheme is just as important as personnel. Look at the Cowboys. No one is going to tell me that they have a better defensive roster than we do. But give credit to Marinelli for getting them in the right place, coaching them up and executing at the LOS even with the losses they've had and the disaster they were last year
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.. you're saying Fewell doesn't move anyone around but then acknowledging that he does and saying it doesn't matter anyway?
Maybe Dallas' defensive roster isn't as bad as people think. Marinelli is going a good job there but it's also not even been a half season. We have to see if they sustain it. Sometimes it's just a matter of teams catching up and figuring out where they can exploit someone.
I don't know, people always talk about Fewell not using any of his players to their strengths and then I see posts here about how Robert Ayers looks better here than he has at any other point in his career so far or I see a Trumaine McBride come out of nowhere and all of a sudden look like an NFL caliber starting CB when 3 other teams didn't see that in him.
I've just always felt like the perception of what other DC's in this league are doing is distorted by a lot of people who don't see a lot of other defenses or pay much attention to them. Just because teams have CB's who can play man doesn't mean they always play man. You can get exploited in man coverages just as much as you can get exploited in zones. There just seems to be this idea that every time we're beat, it's because of a "soft zone" when in reality, that is not the case.