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It is what it is... They just don't appear to be good enough

Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:23 pm
to be contenders. That could change, but from my vantage point, I just don't think they're good enough to beat the better teams in the league.

I expected a slow start, and for them to get better as the season progressed, potentially giving us an 8 or 9 win season. The three game winning streak gave me some hope that maybe things were progressing quicker than anticipated, but the past two weeks have allowed reality to set back in.

The last Dallas offensive drive of the game sums up Perry Fewell's tenure here pretty much in a nutshell. I don't know if it's the players or Fewell, but I dislike our defense very much.
-  
rdt288 : 10/19/2014 7:24 pm : link
Ruben randle, Larry Donnell and Justin Pugh played terribly.

Eli more than still has it
undisciplined team  
Steve in South Jersey : 10/19/2014 7:25 pm : link
and the offensive line needs a major upgrade in talent.
The loss of Jennings  
Dan in WNY : 10/19/2014 7:26 pm : link
is the worst injury this team has had this year. Worse than Cruz. They have no running game again. Also, Dallas was daring the Giants to pass today and they simply refused to stick with it
I own 3 NYG t shirts  
natefit : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
but wont buy a hoody. By the time its cold enough we are already done.
They aren't good enough, but when they go into today with an utter  
Riggies : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
dog shit game plan offensively and it back fires badly on them, I can't be all "it is what it is" about it either.

They have holes, they lack talent, but their coaching staff and specifically head coach set them up to fail on at least one side of the ball today and that's beyond inexcusable on the heels' of last week's disaster.
RE: The loss of Jennings  
PetesHereNow : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
In comment 11929680 Dan in WNY said:
Quote:
is the worst injury this team has had this year. Worse than Cruz. They have no running game again. Also, Dallas was daring the Giants to pass today and they simply refused to stick with it


Jennings was at least running well behind this line.
Get jennings  
Les in TO : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
Back and Lets see what happens
I am more...  
Lord Zedd : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
Disappointed in how shitty and pathetic this defense is.
Everyone dislikes the D  
jcn56 : 10/19/2014 7:27 pm : link
but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.
5 years Fewells here  
Zebra3 : 10/19/2014 7:28 pm : link
Same defense every year miscomunication. 3 man rush, soft zone against teams with TE weapons. Blitz that don't get there? Give belichek this defense and count the shut outs
JPP hankins,Moore,ayers,Beason williams,rolle,DRC Prince
Yeah no talent.
RE: Everyone dislikes the D  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:29 pm : link
In comment 11929694 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.


See, that's the mirage of the Perry Fewell defense though.

Forget EVERYTHING that happened prior to that. There were 5 and a half minutes left in the game, and we needed a stop. That's all that mattered. As they just converted and converted, ran it down to nothing, and then kicked a FG and put it out of reach.
Agree with everything said on this thread.  
LG in NYC : 10/19/2014 7:29 pm : link
.
Not talking big picture or anything  
Giants11 : 10/19/2014 7:29 pm : link
but focusing on today that was the most chicken shit pussy ass offensive game plan I have seen from this team in near 40 years as a fan. They barely laid a glove on Eli all day and we insisted on 1 yd and a cloud of astroturf runs all day. Didn't challenge that secondary one bit. Listen the D was horrific, but if our offensive coaching staff had the balls to do it we could have gone toe to toe with them.
That having been said, Romo and those WR's were superb  
Giants11 : 10/19/2014 7:31 pm : link
they caught every damn ball. Especially in the 2nd half.
Les...I don't think Barry Sanders could run behind this line.  
Blue21 : 10/19/2014 7:31 pm : link
.
x  
commonthe0ry : 10/19/2014 7:32 pm : link
We lost today because of the 2 fumbles and because we got NO pressure on Tony Romo. Gameplan was ok, they have to run to keep Eli clean. If he drops back 50 times we can't protect him. Looking like this will be an 8-8 to 7-9 season. Need a Safety, LT, and a couple of pass rushers in the worst way
The coaching misfired.  
BlueLou : 10/19/2014 7:34 pm : link
But it was better than last week I guess?

I don't think the team even has MacAdoo's full O in yet, they look plenty confused at times.
Yeah..  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2014 7:37 pm : link
After halftime I just didn't expect much, we aren't as good as Dallas right now. They're a better football team. The standings right now pretty accurately reflect where each team in the division is.

We're just undermanned. Season isn't over and we're not a terrible team.. but this just isn't a playoff caliber roster. It is what it is. I'm surprisingly unfazed by this loss.
RE: Everyone dislikes the D  
dep026 : 10/19/2014 7:38 pm : link
In comment 11929694 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.


lol. the defense was fucking awful.
One positive to take at this point...  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:38 pm : link
is that Eli has thrown for 14 TD's, and only 5 INT's so far, and hasn't thrown an INT in nearly a month (not to mention that particular INT should have been a TD).
RE: RE: Everyone dislikes the D  
dep026 : 10/19/2014 7:39 pm : link
In comment 11929712 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 11929694 jcn56 said:


Quote:


but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.



See, that's the mirage of the Perry Fewell defense though.

Forget EVERYTHING that happened prior to that. There were 5 and a half minutes left in the game, and we needed a stop. That's all that mattered. As they just converted and converted, ran it down to nothing, and then kicked a FG and put it out of reach.


The drive when it was 14-7 where Dallas converted three 3rd downs was the drive of the game. Get a stop, possible score, go with the lead at halftime and get the ball.

I mean Romo was 9-9 in the 2nd half. You cant have all=pros everywhere on defense. But we continue to have a shit plan against good QBs.
RE: Everyone dislikes the D  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2014 7:40 pm : link
In comment 11929694 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.


Thing is, we did all of the things people always say we don't do and we got beat anyway. Everyone wants press/man coverage. Well, we played it with Prince on Dez and he got burned. Should have been burned another time but Romo under threw it.

Sent blitzes.. Demps has a free ride to Romo and completely whiffs.

Fenner gets singled up on Dez, easy long gain. JW singled up on Witten, easy completion over the middle.

These are the reasons he plays zones and why teams do it in general.
Everybody failed today pretty much...  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:40 pm : link
save for a couple of players.

I can't pin this all on Fewell, I just was really deflated by that last drive.
Losing Wilson, Jennings and Cruz  
steve in ky : 10/19/2014 7:43 pm : link
Would be hard for any team to overcome. Hopefully Jennings will be back sooner than later. While he wouldn't have mattered in last weeks blowout I think he would have been a difference in todays outcome.

Beckham is looking like he will do a fine job filling in for Cruz and he will only keep improving as he and Eli get more time together.

The facts are the Giants still get a chance to beat both the Eagles and the Cowboys in the home games. They just need to put together another winning streak before then.
The operative word here((OP)  
Big Blue '56 : 10/19/2014 7:44 pm : link
is "appear." Not buying with 9 games left, but hey, I'm supposedly a homer..
RE: RE: Everyone dislikes the D  
Dan in WNY : 10/19/2014 7:45 pm : link
In comment 11929835 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11929694 jcn56 said:


Quote:


but they didn't do a bad job today. Remember we lost Beason and Jenkins halfway through, and we're playing with guys at CB that should be on the bench. On top of all that, in Dallas against that O, we gave up 31 points after coughing up the ball deep in our territory.



Thing is, we did all of the things people always say we don't do and we got beat anyway. Everyone wants press/man coverage. Well, we played it with Prince on Dez and he got burned. Should have been burned another time but Romo under threw it.

Sent blitzes.. Demps has a free ride to Romo and completely whiffs.

Fenner gets singled up on Dez, easy long gain. JW singled up on Witten, easy completion over the middle.

These are the reasons he plays zones and why teams do it in general.


Excellent Post.
RE: The operative word here((OP)  
Stan from LA : 10/19/2014 7:46 pm : link
In comment 11929869 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
is "appear." Not buying with 9 games left, but hey, I'm supposedly a homer..


Homer.
BB56, the placement of the word "appear"  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:46 pm : link
was deliberate and thought out when I was thinking about what I wanted to say.
RE: BB56, the placement of the word  
Big Blue '56 : 10/19/2014 7:47 pm : link
In comment 11929899 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
was deliberate and tho

ught out when I was thinking about what I wanted to say.


Gotcha
RE: Yeah..  
GloryDayz : 10/19/2014 7:52 pm : link
In comment 11929802 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
After halftime I just didn't expect much, we aren't as good as Dallas right now. They're a better football team. The standings right now pretty accurately reflect where each team in the division is.

We're just undermanned. Season isn't over and we're not a terrible team.. but this just isn't a playoff caliber roster. It is what it is. I'm surprisingly unfazed by this loss.


Very well said
If Coughlin and Eli are as good as we think  
chris r : 10/19/2014 7:53 pm : link
they should be able to overcome a lot of holes.
My one main gripe about the defense  
Greg from LI : 10/19/2014 7:53 pm : link
You tell me how that sucks bunch of waiver wire rejects Dallas runs out there outperforms our defense. It sure as shit isn't due to superior talent.
This team reminds me of 2006...  
bradshaw44 : 10/19/2014 7:54 pm : link
We have some good pieces, but we are making dumb mistakes. The defense, if executed properly should have stopped two of those TD drives. Donnell doesn't fumble and we may have been tying the game there. But alas, the stupid mistakes kept happening like 2006. We finished 8-8 that season and were lucky enough to make the play offs. This year I don't think we make the playoffs but we will be 8-8.

Just hoping next season has the same result as 2007.
Eli was 21-33 for 250 yards and 3 TD's today.  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:54 pm : link
What else did you expect from him? What could he have overcome?
stupid auto correct  
Greg from LI : 10/19/2014 7:54 pm : link
Sucks=sucko
And those Eli statistics bring up something I've been thinking about..  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:56 pm : link
Well, now we've got a QB that's putting up very good/great statistics week in, week out.

He's only thrown one INT in over a month (which should have been a TD), and has thrown 14 TD's to only 5 INT's.

But it's just not translating in the win column.
What does that mean?  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 7:56 pm : link
I don't know.

Just something I've been thinking about.
It means two things  
Greg from LI : 10/19/2014 7:58 pm : link
1) we can't run the ball

2) the defense sucks
RE: Eli was 21-33 for 250 yards and 3 TD's today.  
chris r : 10/19/2014 7:58 pm : link
In comment 11929953 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
What else did you expect from him? What could he have overcome?


My point is that we should expect to play better than our talent because we have an elite coach and QB. I'm not knocking Eli's performance today.
Honestly..  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2014 7:59 pm : link
Sometimes you just lose to a better football team. Our gap discipline wasn't even bad today. Their OL just overpowered our guys on a handful of running plays and Murray still got his yards. We all consider Prince a pretty good CB but even he is going to get beat one on one with a top tier WR like Bryant.

I think we tried sticking with the run a little too long when it was clear that they just were not going to back off and let us do it. This was a game where we should have really just put the ball in Eli's hands and see if he could win it for us. It was too late once we got into that mode.
Britt..  
Sean : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
in 2007 the Giants were 6-2 & 4-4 in the first and second half. In 2011 they were 6-2 & 3-5 in the first and second half of the season.

Right now they are 3-4 and Eli is playing very well, but there is still room for improvement. My hope is that the team improves and maybe has a season which is the opposite of 07 or 11. The issue is, the NFC is very good and I doubt 9-7 gets in, hell 10-6 may not get in.
RE: What does that mean?  
GloryDayz : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
In comment 11929984 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I don't know.

Just something I've been thinking about.


It simply means no matter how good Eli plays, others have to hold their ends of the bargain. And thats not happening.
We're seriously not going to be purposely obtuse enough to pretend  
Riggies : 10/19/2014 8:01 pm : link
decent stats for the QB are bad now, are we? We're going to reach that far?

Because the problem wasn't Eli's stats today. If anything, it was that the HC wouldn't put the game fully on Manning's shoulders and let him at least try to carry them because passing the ball = turning over the ball in Tom's mind.
Britt he got 80 yds and a TD that last drive.  
Giants11 : 10/19/2014 8:06 pm : link
so the #'s are a bit misleading not much though. Not blaming Eli and the passing game one bit. That game plan was chicken "play not to get killed" football. I'm not saying throw it 40 times, but not one throw beyond 20-25 yds, when Eli had time to throw just about every drop back???
RE: We're seriously not going to be purposely obtuse enough to pretend  
Britt in VA : 10/19/2014 8:07 pm : link
In comment 11930024 Riggies said:
Quote:
decent stats for the QB are bad now, are we? We're going to reach that far?

Because the problem wasn't Eli's stats today. If anything, it was that the HC wouldn't put the game fully on Manning's shoulders and let him at least try to carry them because passing the ball = turning over the ball in Tom's mind.


My point was more about the offensive philosophy than the actual statistics.
Yeah  
TheNeumann64 : 10/19/2014 8:11 pm : link
I just think that what we've seen so far is that they don't have the horses to compete with the better teams in the league. And if you look, they've lost to teams that are now 6-1, 5-1, 5-1, and 5-2 and have beat 2-5, 2-5, and 3-3.

I think there's problems all around, and I don't think the coaching is helping matters, but to me, the roster just doesn't have enough guys on it where they are going to beat a lot of teams that are even decent. Unfortunately, with the games coming up the next month, they could be looking at heading into the stretch at 4-7 or something like that, and playing some really irrelevant football against Jacksonville and Tennessee.
what happened to those quick throws weeks 3-5?  
Giants11 : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
everything seems so much more methodical and slow now
RE: If Coughlin and Eli are as good as we think  
SHO'NUFF : 10/20/2014 12:42 am : link
In comment 11929945 chris r said:
Quote:
they should be able to overcome a lot of holes.


maybe...

if we let Eli fucking throw the ball...
line of scrimmage  
area junc : 10/20/2014 12:52 am : link
to my eye its the same old story 3 years running: we get whipped up front on both sides of the ball. predictable results follow.

the cowboys looked like another team that was bigger, stronger and faster than we were. their OLine pushed us around and our DLine didnt lay a glove on romo. perry of course failed to manufacture any pressure and romo looked like a 7 on 7 and was able to place the ball wherever he wanted
RE: what happened to those quick throws weeks 3-5?  
HomerJones45 : 10/20/2014 1:02 am : link
In comment 11930140 Giants11 said:
Quote:
everything seems so much more methodical and slow now
other teams watch film
I don't understand why we're not letting Eli win/lose the game.  
BrettNYG10 : 10/20/2014 8:34 am : link
Running it on third and eleven on the first drive made no sense to me.

Eli's playing well and the OL wasn't bad in pass blocking. Why not let him loose - particularly in the second half?
I can understand committing to the run in the first half  
Greg from LI : 10/20/2014 8:36 am : link
But when you clearly can't run, and you're losing in the second half, what's the point of continuing to run on every single first down?
Some times the other team is just better  
JOrthman : 10/20/2014 8:45 am : link
I think that was the case, howeve, we didn't help ourselves with dumb penalties and a stubborn game plan.

At some point they had to realize the run just wasn't going to work and start throwing more.
A better thread for these comments ...  
JonC : 10/20/2014 8:46 am : link
In my view, the defense is a big problem

JonC : 8:38 am : link : reply

On an almost every week basis, there's virtually no pass rush or pressure generated, the LBs stink, injuries and poor personnel decisions have weakened the secondary, and we know that Fewell will often get outcoached and make strange deployment decisions.

The offense is a work in progress; the OL lacks some talent, the system is new and the OC is a playcalling rookie in the NFL demonstrating some growing pains.

The team as a whole repeats fundamental mistakes and mental errors, which several players kept repeating last night in post-game. FIX IT! It's about focus, attention to detail, mental preparation on the little things and firing out of the locker room ready to play.
14-21 in the second half  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/20/2014 8:49 am : link
Donnell fumbles inside the Giants 40. Somehow we expect this defense to stop them?

With what army?

Score more than 21 points. You aren't a playoff team if you can't average at least 25 ppg.
I've been banging the "lack the horses" drum for awhile, and it's true  
JonC : 10/20/2014 8:49 am : link
but just figure out how to play a cleaner football game, and the performance factor will improve.

This is a 6-win team right now. Get healthy, improve on the steaming pile of little things they eff up week to week and this is an 8-win team.
I don't know a lot of this is coaching  
Essex : 10/20/2014 8:55 am : link
the Eagles are 5-1, they start Riley Cooper and Jeremy Maclin at WR. Their Offensive Line is decimated and at times have started 3 backups. McCoy did not seem the same until they played us. Their defense has little talent in the secondary and has been without Kendricks at LB. They also were not generating a pass rush with their front, so they started to blitz much more and it worked against us. Coaching matters and we are just not being well coached at this time. I am not convinced it is what it is. Our team is not talented and has some injuries, but we also have not shown an ability to stop anyone in the last two weeks and that is coaching, too.
with Jenkins out  
bc4life : 10/20/2014 8:57 am : link
they rarely got any pressure up the middle. How many snaps did Moore get yesterday?

And, don't forget - the Giants competed and kept it close for most of the game. Tied at halftime and only a TD away until the turnover.
We win this game easy  
bignygfan : 10/20/2014 11:30 am : link
if we outrush Dallas.

That is a fact. It's just that we can't do it.

You can analyze it any way you want but the run game is important and will be every week we play.

If we can't outrush teams, why should we think we can win? Someone explain that to me. Eli had solid numbers, three TDs and no TOs and we don't win.

To paraphrase, it's the run, stupid.
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