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Every NYG running play today; the price of balance.

TexasGmenFan : 10/19/2014 7:39 pm
I knew it was a bad omen when we decided to just chuck away the opening series...but here you are:

-15 of 24 runs for & lt; 3 yards.
-2 runs over 5 yards (*not counting the 2 pointless halftime draws)

Say what you will about the - - and most of us had - - but this is a LOT of wasted plays for something that simply didn't work. You really have to try to have & gt; 50% of your runs fail to gain THREE fucking yards.

1. (12:57) (Shotgun) 44-A.Williams left guard to NYG 22 for -2 yards (99-G.Selvie)

2. (12:30) (No Huddle) 44-A.Williams left tackle to NYG 23 for 1 yard (98-T.Crawford).

3. (11:52) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 33-P.Hillis right tackle to NYG 27 for 4 yards (98-T.Crawford).

4. (4:08) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 44-A.Williams up the middle to NYG 40 for 3 yards (92-J.Mincey; 96-N.Hayden).

5. (:19) (No Huddle) 44-A.Williams left end to NYG 40 for no gain (52-J.Durant).

6. (14:28) (No Huddle) 44-A.Williams left tackle to DAL 44 for 3 yards (27-J.Wilcox).

*7.* (12:50) (Shotgun) 44-A.Williams right tackle to DAL 5 for 22 yards (39-B.Carr).

8. (12:21) 44-A.Williams up the middle to DAL 4 for 1 yard (99-G.Selvie).

9. (2:11) (Shotgun) 33-P.Hillis right guard to NYG 22 for 2 yards (52-J.Durant; 98-T.Crawford).

10. (:14) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 33-P.Hillis right tackle to NYG 38 for 9 yards (55-R.McClain). Shotgun draw before half # 1

11. (:04) (Shotgun) 33-P.Hillis up the middle to NYG 48 for 10 yards (93-A.Spencer). Shotgun draw before half # 2

12. (:04) (Shotgun) 33-P.Hillis up the middle to NYG 48 for 10 yards (93-A.Spencer).

13. (13:30) 44-A.Williams left tackle to NYG 46 for -1 yards (97-T.McClain).

14. (12:54) 44-A.Williams right end to DAL 48 for 6 yards (69-H.Melton).

15. (11:44) 44-A.Williams up the middle to DAL 38 for -3 yards (97-T.McClain).

16. (10:29) 33-P.Hillis left tackle to DAL 43 for no gain (98-T.Crawford, 52-J.Durant).

17. (6:10) 44-A.Williams left end to NYG 19 for 3 yards (97-T.McClain).

18. (5:38) 44-A.Williams right tackle to NYG 18 for -1 yards (55-R.McClain).

19. (4:23) (No Huddle) 33-P.Hillis up the middle to NYG 39 for 4 yards (52-J.Durant; 42-B.Church).

20. (2:51) 44-A.Williams up the middle to DAL 49 for 1 yard (55-R.McClain).

21. (12:33) 44-A.Williams left guard to NYG 12 for 1 yard (52-J.Durant; 98-T.Crawford).

22. (11:53) (Shotgun) 44-A.Williams right end to NYG 19 for 2 yards (55-R.McClain).

23. (8:53) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 44-A.Williams up the middle to NYG 29 for no gain (95-L.Edwards).

24. (8:15) 44-A.Williams left end to NYG 38 for 9 yards (42-B.Church).


stupid formatting  
TexasGmenFan : 10/19/2014 7:41 pm : link
it should say "LESS THAN 3 yards"

also i think i posted Hillis' 2nd shotgun draw before half twice...adjust accordingly, ha.
Coughlin  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/19/2014 7:45 pm : link
Is convinced that if the Giants go 1 dimensional the game will be lost. He's right, but the Giants lose either way. The talent isn't there. It's just one of those years. They are a 3rd place team.....the 2 Superbowls will have to sustain you for another year....
Tom is too ideological about balance.  
chris r : 10/19/2014 7:46 pm : link
Sure you would ideally like to have balance in each game. However you have to be flexible within each game and go more with what works better than what works worse. If you can't run it and are having success passing, why not keep passing until they prove they can stop it? Then you can go back to the run.

And I always thought in the WCO, the short throw can substitute for the pass.
I dont get this  
ajr2456 : 10/19/2014 7:46 pm : link
@ebenezersamuel: Coughlin on running: you gotta have balance. We are not just gonna turn the ball over because we refuse to run”
Thanks for the effort.  
Bones : 10/19/2014 7:47 pm : link
But this time it wasn't necessary to go into detail. It was embarrassingly obvious we could not run a lick against these guys.
RE: I dont get this  
chris r : 10/19/2014 7:47 pm : link
In comment 11929901 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
@ebenezersamuel: Coughlin on running: you gotta have balance. We are not just gonna turn the ball over because we refuse to run”


Why bring in the WCO offense if you still think of the passing game as high risk?
RE: I dont get this  
Riggies : 10/19/2014 7:49 pm : link
In comment 11929901 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
@ebenezersamuel: Coughlin on running: you gotta have balance. We are not just gonna turn the ball over because we refuse to run”


So basically you don't trust your QB to not throw picks, Tom? Because RBs can fumble too.

If that's where we're at, then this team was fucked before even a single snap this season.
Actually  
Bones : 10/19/2014 7:50 pm : link
I think the fact we ran so much kept us in the game. It was the D giving up big 3rd down plays as usuall, and the 2 fumbles that put the game out of reach.
RE: Actually  
Josh in the City : 10/19/2014 7:51 pm : link
In comment 11929923 Bones said:
Quote:
I think the fact we ran so much kept us in the game. It was the D giving up big 3rd down plays as usuall, and the 2 fumbles that put the game out of reach.


That's nice. But you're wrong.
I'm thinking a 1st round choice of Zach Martin  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/19/2014 7:53 pm : link
And a 2nd round choice of a WR for the Giants would have won this game for the Giants.....
...  
Josh in the City : 10/19/2014 7:54 pm : link
RE: I'm thinking a 1st round choice of Zach Martin  
chris r : 10/19/2014 7:55 pm : link
In comment 11929951 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
And a 2nd round choice of a WR for the Giants would have won this game for the Giants.....


With a healthy Schwartz I'd rather have OBJ and Richburg than Martin and a second round WR. Especially after Cruz's injury.
RE: I'm thinking a 1st round choice of Zach Martin  
Riggies : 10/19/2014 7:55 pm : link
In comment 11929951 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
And a 2nd round choice of a WR for the Giants would have won this game for the Giants.....


Or maybe a head coach that wasn't apparently scared to the put the ball in Eli's hand for fear of him throwing interceptions.
RE: Tom is too ideological about balance.  
giantgiantfan : 10/19/2014 7:58 pm : link
In comment 11929900 chris r said:
Quote:
Sure you would ideally like to have balance in each game. However you have to be flexible within each game and go more with what works better than what works worse. If you can't run it and are having success passing, why not keep passing until they prove they can stop it? Then you can go back to the run.

And I always thought in the WCO, the short throw can substitute for the pass.


Balance for Tom doesn't mean flexibility, he's balanced like a lead anvil.
Coughlin  
AcidTest : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
apparently doesn't understand that the definition of insanity really is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. His stubbornness really hurt us today. The in game adjustment he needed to make was obvious, but he wouldn't do it. When something isn't working, you try something else. His poor coaching and obstinacy cost us any chance of winning this game.
They didn't seem  
JoefromPa : 10/19/2014 8:01 pm : link
to need balance on their final touchdown drive. You know the one with over 5 minutes left in the game. The one that if the Giants had a defense that could be depended upon to get the ball back, ( which of course we knew would not happen) could give them a chance to win.
RE: RE: I'm thinking a 1st round choice of Zach Martin  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/19/2014 8:02 pm : link
In comment 11929963 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 11929951 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


And a 2nd round choice of a WR for the Giants would have won this game for the Giants.....



With a healthy Schwartz I'd rather have OBJ and Richburg than Martin and a second round WR. Especially after Cruz's injury.


He is a special player, fun to watch...perhaps you're right
You left out  
Cadillac : 10/19/2014 8:06 pm : link
Beckham's run for 13 yards. And Eli's scramble for 11. (I can see leaving out the scramble since it was not a called running play).
OBJ is looking like a damn  
giantgiantfan : 10/19/2014 8:07 pm : link
good pick. 3 TDs in his first 3 games. Not sure what the stat is but this guy could break the Giants record for most TDs by a rookie wide receiver.
Beckham  
Bill in TN : 10/19/2014 8:09 pm : link
will win far more games for the Giants than Z. Martin.
Speaking of Beckham  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/19/2014 8:10 pm : link
Why in the name of all that's holy, are the Giants not stretching the field with this speedster?!?! He can take the top off a defense
TC needs to stop fucking micromanaging  
SHO'NUFF : 10/19/2014 9:07 pm : link
McAdoo probably wants to shoot himself in the team meetings and the sideline.
I see a lot less comfort or rhythm to this offense since the PHI game.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2014 9:30 pm : link
Something has changed.
RE: Speaking of Beckham  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/19/2014 9:30 pm : link
In comment 11930099 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
Why in the name of all that's holy, are the Giants not stretching the field with this speedster?!?! He can take the top off a defense


He was in there for a long pass, but ran the wrong route. Incomplete. Looked like Eli was throwing at air.
Can someone with knowledge of X's and O's answer my question?  
mrvax : 10/19/2014 9:34 pm : link
It seems to me that if you are running the ball quite a bit and the opposition is setting themselves up to stop the run, you would frequently have your QB go with play-action.

I only saw that once or twice today. Methinks that is Eli swapped out some runs for play-action, it could have given our receivers a step on the defense.

So, the question is, why hardly any play action today?
RE: Can someone with knowledge of X's and O's answer my question?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/19/2014 10:03 pm : link
In comment 11930445 mrvax said:
Quote:
It seems to me that if you are running the ball quite a bit and the opposition is setting themselves up to stop the run, you would frequently have your QB go with play-action.

I only saw that once or twice today. Methinks that is Eli swapped out some runs for play-action, it could have given our receivers a step on the defense.

So, the question is, why hardly any play action today?



Play action only works when the running game gets going, because it makes the entire defense take a step forward before they realize its a pass. When you aren't running well it's the play action pass is less effective. Though I will say the few play actions we got, were descent pass plays.
Amazing...  
Jacobs27 : 10/19/2014 11:05 pm : link
when we finally took the handcuffs off with 8 minutes to go in 4th quarter we marched right down the field in 3 minutes for a touchdown - and it didn't look like Dallas was playing any sort of prevent D there either.

TC's effing stubborness is killing us. We probably lose today anyway but at least give us a f'ing chance.
remember that game a few years ago where  
chris r : 10/19/2014 11:08 pm : link
Fewell started off the game with the NASCAR package and nickle or dime vs Payton and the Colts uncharacteristically ran the ball a ton and thrashed us?

I'd like to see the Giants be that flexible in their in game adjustments to take advantage of what the defense is giving them.
If we had abandoned the run early, we would've lost by more than 10  
BlackLight : 10/19/2014 11:11 pm : link
Amazing that people don't get this simple concept. We need defenses to at least believe we might run the ball.

Balance means mixing things up....  
Jacobs27 : 10/19/2014 11:15 pm : link
Taking out the two minute drives at the end of the first half....we ran the ball on 11 of 14 first down plays to start the game. That's not balance - that's just fucking stupidity and TC being a stubborn SOB.
At one point, they had run the ball 24 times to 20 passing attempts.  
Riggies : 10/19/2014 11:25 pm : link
They weren't even balanced.

They were full blown run first until they had no other possible option but throw it to close the game out and it was garbage, given how thoroughly ineffective the run game was and how it wasn't actually doing much other than putting the passing game into holes most drives.
another  
area junc : 10/19/2014 11:35 pm : link
poor gameplan from the coaches. getting old
if they want balance...  
SHO'NUFF : 10/20/2014 12:35 am : link
throw for the first 40 plays, go up 28 points in the 4th and run out the clock the rest of the way.
This coaching staff has sacrificed many wins  
Mike from SI : 10/20/2014 12:49 am : link
at the altar of the Balance gods. It's maddening. How many of the amazing offenses over the past 10 or so years were "balanced?" Do the Broncos insist on a balanced offense? The Packers? Did the '07 Pats? The Saints from a few years ago?

The only way we were moving the ball against this team was through the air, yet they refused to rely heavily on the passing game until it was too late.
RE: I dont get this  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/20/2014 1:20 am : link
In comment 11929901 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
@ebenezersamuel: Coughlin on running: you gotta have balance. We are not just gonna turn the ball over because we refuse to run”


This is why when the argument was had during the offseason about the offense, many said that it was "Tom's Offense" and not the coordinators.

Coughlin wants "balance". He talks about it all the time. Regardless of what the opponent is doing, he wants to be able to say we have a balanced attack that way at the end, he can point to the stat sheet and say they were even on both accounts during the course of a given game.

This came up during the Dallas game last November when they were constantly gashing their defense with runs but kept passing the ball for the sake of "balance."

It begins and ends with the head man. If he wants the runs, he will ask for it and he will get it.

RE: If we had abandoned the run early, we would've lost by more than 10  
Giantfan in skinland : 10/20/2014 3:40 am : link
In comment 11930707 BlackLight said:
Quote:
Amazing that people don't get this simple concept. We need defenses to at least believe we might run the ball.


Why? The word missing from your post is "threat". As in, I would agree with you if you said, "We need defense to at least believe in the threat of us running the ball." Just because we do it ineffectively on 1st down over and over doesn't mean the opposing defense is concerned about it. They stop it with ease.

Abandoning that tactic doesn't mean abandoning the run. It means coming up with other ways to manufacturer a short yardage attack (i.e., short passing game) to set up a deep attack (and vice versa) to ultimately back the defense off a bit. I'd rather see screens and quick hitters than one yard pile ups. And I see no reason to believe that essentially kneeling down on first down somehow is helping this offense.
In past years..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/20/2014 3:48 am : link
the Cowboys have been skewed to the pass. That means they have the big plays, but they also have made killer mistakes.

This year, they are a 50-50 split and they look better than they have in Garrett's tenure.

People wanting to throw the ball all the time don't realize what a disadvantage that puts a team at. I'm not saying that every game you have to have a 50-50 split, but the threat of the run has to be there or the pass won't be effective either.

What is apparent to me is that the line is going to struggle to open up holes and Williams needs the holes, where Jennings can find his own. That's why there's been such a struggle with Jennings out.

But I continue to see this short-sighted thinking that an 80% pass mix would somehow bring better results. It might be more exciting to watch, but it would also bring excitement to the other team's fans as DB's run to the house with INT's.

But then again, the way the thread starter whines and bitches on game threads like a fucking child, I can see how this post is made. He of course knows better than our coaches.
Cowboys  
Giantfan in skinland : 10/20/2014 6:40 am : link
Also have a superior OL now and clearly can succeed in the running game. Relying on that facet of their offense more makes sense. There's no NEED to increase the risk by passing more because they CAN succeed running the ball.

I don't think any of that is proving to be true for us (at least with the current OL/RBs). While less than ideal, I still think their best shot at achieving balance (i.e., success in the run and pass game) is by stretching the D out with the pass game when the D crowds the line to stop the run. It's about threatening the D. The run game doesn't do that on its own....but it could if you got the D on their heels defending the pass (rather than simply trying to stubborn your way to a running game).
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