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I am tired of this

Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 7:58 pm
I think that I am at least a moderately respected poster in these parts and most know that this type of opinion or overreaction is not my norm. I want to preface this by saying that I am not speaking out of emotion or frustration but more so disappointment.

This team has talent. There are talented players on the roster. The quarterback is a proven winner and extremely gifted. But yet, they flounder in mediocrity.

It’s the little things. The frequent, drive killing/drive extending penalties. The stubbornness/repetitiveness of play calling. What seems to be a lack of desire/motivation at times. What seems to be a lack of preparation. The mental errors and lack of in-game adjustments is maddening. The nagging injuries. They can’t win the close ones. They are making the critical mistakes to lose games. For a coach that emphasizes attention to detail, this is poorly coached team. They can’t make plays when plays need to be made on either side of the ball. The inconsistencies with this team are completely mind-boggling. Lately, this team has come up small in big spots.

My fear is that we are wasting away the prime years of the best QB this franchise has ever seen with poor coaching. There is too much talent on the roster to miss the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons. Soon to be 5 out of the last 6 seasons.

For all intents and purposes, this season is over and it’s not even Halloween yet. For the second season in a row. I will always love Coughlin for what he has done for this franchise and I am forever grateful but the coaching staff from top to bottom has done a poor job. From preparation to in-game coaching to simple development of players.

It is time for a change. It was time for a change at the end of last season, but the proper changes were not made.

To be frank, I don’t really care if people disagree with this post and I don’t really care how this post is perceived. This team is too damn good to miss the playoffs so frequently.
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I agree  
Josh in the City : 10/19/2014 7:59 pm : link
with this post.
the team  
MookGiants : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
certainly isn't too damn good right now. In between titles I agree. But the talent level on this team right now is quite frankly shitty.
What changes do you want made?  
gmen1234 : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
.
I said it on another thread...  
bradshaw44 : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
It's 2006 all over again. TC needs to clean up the penalties and mental mistakes before we can compete again. We also need to have a fucking season where we don't lose every starter on D to fucking injuries.
You  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/19/2014 8:00 pm : link
make some good points, but the talent isn't as good as you think.

We have issues on the OL, DL, LB, S, WR and we've gotten nailed by injuries (again).

Dallas is the better team.
I agree with the stubborness and mental  
chris r : 10/19/2014 8:01 pm : link
mistakes being on Coughlin.

I think what is also on Coughlin is Fewell still being around after a proven track record of mediocrity. Especially with the injuries to Schwartz, Cruz and Jenkins, this defense should be carrying the team. Instead they've been average to bad.
and they've been average to bad  
chris r : 10/19/2014 8:02 pm : link
for Fewell's entire time here excepting the SB run.
The play calling frustrated me more today  
RELICDOA : 10/19/2014 8:03 pm : link
Than last week. Going to be a long break.
Amen  
natefit : 10/19/2014 8:03 pm : link
Yes injuries and yes we are lacking at some positions talent-wise but once again its noe even jacket weather and we are done. Something is missing with this team (again) and its hard to figure.
There is no  
Josh in the City : 10/19/2014 8:04 pm : link
way for any of us to know if the talent is there to win b/c they're not being put in a position to succeed.
Let Eli throw the damn ball!!!  
RELICDOA : 10/19/2014 8:04 pm : link
Feel like he is handcuffed?!?
OL and DL  
Toastt34 : 10/19/2014 8:05 pm : link
That's how you win. The OL is a wreck. This week couldn't run block, last week couldn't pass block. The DL has talent that's underperforming aside from Hankins. Cant get any pressure on 3rd downs exposing the decimated secondary. Can't make a key stop and can't get off the freakin field.
Dallas is better. I do not disagree with you Eric.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:05 pm : link
But the Giants have talent up and down the roster. Not at all positions, but they should not be as up and down as they are.

As I mentioned, the inconsistencies are what drive me crazy.

Example: the Dallas defense is not nearly as talented as the Giants defense. They signed guys off the street. But yet they whipped the Giants. The coaching staff for Dallas has the defense playing hard and they are schematically sound.
RE: You  
BillT : 10/19/2014 8:05 pm : link
In comment 11930018 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
and we've gotten nailed by injuries (again)


When do we get to see this team at anything that resembles full strength. Ever?
After spending more for free agents in giants history..  
silverfox : 10/19/2014 8:06 pm : link
...we still have the same problems. Saying its on the players at this point is ridiculous. Its obvious the coaching has to be addressed next and it starts with Coughlin. He's toast.
Do you think  
JoefromPa : 10/19/2014 8:06 pm : link
any team will ever miss a meaningful field goal against the Giants again. Because I not only tired of all the things you listed, I'm tired of that too.
Vin  
micky : 10/19/2014 8:07 pm : link
I agree. I guess most are reacting on emotion. But, for the life of me now, the all too familar post-game conference..there's the mantra of: too many mental mistakes, miscommunication with so-and-so unit etc, having to search within ourselves, drive killing penalties, etc etc etc.

This has been going on for the most part of the last two seasons and cannot understand why they haven't corrected these issues at least more on a consistant basis. It's been too often now.
RE: There is no  
bradshaw44 : 10/19/2014 8:07 pm : link
In comment 11930039 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
way for any of us to know if the talent is there to win b/c they're not being put in a position to succeed.


I agree with this. Sticking with the running was fine until the 4th quarter. They should have abandoned it on the first drive and gone in to the hurry up like they did on the 3rd TD to Beckham. The players showed the fuck up. And instead of running on 1 and 19, we should have gone with that medium range passing attack that marched us right down the field for the score. But it was too late at that point (basically).
Josh, I could not agree more.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:08 pm : link
Quote:
There is no
Josh in the City : 8:04 pm : link : reply

way for any of us to know if the talent is there to win b/c they're not being put in a position to succeed.


I just took it a step further than you. Based on the track records of the players, I think this team has the talent to succeed and they are not being put in the position to win.
Unrealistic  
Coughlin's Rules : 10/19/2014 8:08 pm : link
We just went toe to toe with the best team in the league. Our talent does not compare. Our best I weapons are Eli, a rookie Wr, a rookie Rb and an undrafted Te. Our D just lost their Top 2 secondary and Lb players. Our DL is not adequate to beat this OL one on one with that Rb.
Well, they lose Joseph  
Giants2012 : 10/19/2014 8:08 pm : link
So they can gve Hankins a shot

Then draft Bromley, etc

Can't keep them all but can't keep using top draft picks on the same position either. Getting blindsided when neglected positions are weak is getting old.
As I said on the game thread,  
81_Great_Dane : 10/19/2014 8:08 pm : link
I believe the Giants' search for a new head coach starts tomorrow. It's possible TC survives if the team somehow turns it around, but ownership can't be caught unprepared if they don't.
silverfox  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/19/2014 8:08 pm : link
they had room to sign so many free agents because they blew so many draft picks in five straight drafts.

And it's not like they signed a bunch of FA all-stars.
We are what our record says  
chiro56 : 10/19/2014 8:09 pm : link
3 and4. I think this team is close to contending. We have some talented play makers but no depth at some positions. I think our O cordinator is in learning mode and will improve as this season progresses. Our D does seem to play on its heals. We need to attack more. Love prince although Bryant had a big day. No pass rush. I think we go 7 and 2 next nine games.
you know what I am really tired off  
dairborn : 10/19/2014 8:10 pm : link
even with all of the mistakes...there was still a shot with under 6 minutes and I had no feeling like we were going to stop them. We left Prince on an island the whole second half and we couldn't stop the run and we got gashed on cutbacks again and again. I want to feel like we are going to stop them. I have lost all my faith in the defense. I am almost shocked when we stop them on 3rd down. We had them deep back in their own territory twice and had great field position and both times in 2 plays they flipped the field

I didn't think the offense played badly. I hated the play calling.....that run on 1st and 20 at the beginning of the first half at mid field just was horrible. ITS NOT WORKING COACH! Maybe the drive fails but lets throw to at least get in FG range and take a lead.



Bottom line...same problems week after week. Miscommunications in coverage and our rush doesn't get home. Gashed on cutback and 3rd downs are getting hopeless. Start rebuilding now with the firing of Perry FEWELL.

RE: After spending more for free agents in giants history..  
BlueHurricane : 10/19/2014 8:10 pm : link
In comment 11930060 silverfox said:
Quote:
...we still have the same problems. Saying its on the players at this point is ridiculous. Its obvious the coaching has to be addressed next and it starts with Coughlin. He's toast.


Everyone they bought is hurt.
RE: There is no  
MookGiants : 10/19/2014 8:13 pm : link
In comment 11930039 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
way for any of us to know if the talent is there to win b/c they're not being put in a position to succeed.


The OL isn't being put in a position to succeed? How about blocking the fucking guy in front of you! That has nothing to do with coaching, they can't fucking block to save there lives
This is not a particularly talented team  
Go Terps : 10/19/2014 8:14 pm : link
I think they're heading in a good direction with Pugh, Richburg, Williams, Beckham, and Donnell...but they need more to dig out of the hole created by the poor drafting of recent years. Lots of high picks that aren't even on the team anymore. You can't fix that in FA. Just have to restart the pipeline, which I think the last two drafts did.

But this team, this year, isn't a special group.
NYG  
Buck Dharma : 10/19/2014 8:14 pm : link
have not beat a good team since October 2012.
RE: As I said on the game thread,  
natefit : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
In comment 11930078 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
I believe the Giants' search for a new head coach starts tomorrow. It's possible TC survives if the team somehow turns it around, but ownership can't be caught unprepared if they don't.

I was thinking the same thing. I think quietly, it DOES start tomorrow.
The tempo offense/2 minute drill offense was obviously working.  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
Why not use that more often? I understand that there must be a run-game element to keep the defense honest but ride the best player you have....THE QB!

The line is bad, the run game is non-existent, the defense had trouble stopping Dallas so put up points with the pass game.
RE: We are what our record says  
lecky : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
In comment 11930088 chiro56 said:
Quote:
3 and4. I think this team is close to contending. We have some talented play makers but no depth at some positions. I think our O cordinator is in learning mode and will improve as this season progresses. Our D does seem to play on its heals. We need to attack more. Love prince although Bryant had a big day. No pass rush. I think we go 7 and 2 next nine games.


Saying we will go 7 and 2 in the next 9 games based on what? Just like our play the play calling is getting worst every game. We were there with our offense and just when we thought things would turn around, we go back to last years play calling. This is a professional football team that can not blitz or run a screen play. How is that possible in this day and age?
Finding Giants  
Giants2012 : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
Can't wait for the next episode. "What Giants"?
Jerry had a bad game  
chiro56 : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
Even I noticed.need schartz
The talent level on this team is lacking  
djm : 10/19/2014 8:15 pm : link
But the defense could play better. The offense is right around where i thought it would be. Not bad not great. The defense can go fuck itself especially fewell. I no longer trust the defense.
Pass rush  
stretch234 : 10/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
I actually think JPP look good in the pass rush. He showed some moves.

This is a division rival - they get the soft zone we play on 3rd down. If we have supposed pass rushers, did we see the 4 DE at all together

The defense plays not to lose and they lose more games that way
The offense is in dire need of a hr hitting rb  
djm : 10/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
And the oline needs a year of seasoning and probably another interior player but it Schwartz is the goods we are fine there. The Rbs are ok but ok doesn't win games in the 4th quarter of a tough game on the road. We need a star at rb to give this team an edge. Need another WR or TE.

The defense is a fucking joke. Should have known they would let down this year after everyone, including me, tripped all over themselves praising the 2013 defense.

DRC? Hurt always. JPP and hank are the only difference makers up front. Prince and rolle only legit players in the back 7.

Fewell is garbage. Brings nothing...
Another example:  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:20 pm : link
Jason Pierre-Paul, Mathias Kiwanuka, Jonathan Hankins, Cullen Jenkins, Robert Ayers, Damontre Moore and Mike Patterson are better than Tyrone Crawford, Nick Hayden, Henry Melton, Jeremy Mincey, and George Selvie WHO COULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE GIANTS ROSTER!

What does that mean? The coaching staff isn't putting these players in positions to succeed and the young players aren't being developed.
My 7 and 2 predication  
chiro56 : 10/19/2014 8:22 pm : link
Is based on the learning curve, getting players back , our schedule , and wishful thinking
RE: Dallas is better. I do not disagree with you Eric.  
HomerJones45 : 10/19/2014 8:23 pm : link
In comment 11930050 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
But the Giants have talent up and down the roster. Not at all positions, but they should not be as up and down as they are.

As I mentioned, the inconsistencies are what drive me crazy.

Example: the Dallas defense is not nearly as talented as the Giants defense. They signed guys off the street. But yet they whipped the Giants. The coaching staff for Dallas has the defense playing hard and they are schematically sound.
lthe cowboy offense helps their defense out a lot.

And no, we don't have talent up and down the roster. We have no Bryant, no Witten, we have no Murray. We are slow at lb and are basically playing with one safety. There are only so many holes you can cover.
This team is not that talented  
Joey in VA : 10/19/2014 8:25 pm : link
You vastly overrate our talent. Gone are our two best run defenders from a year ago along with our best safety and the D can't stop anyone with an actual offense. Why the surprise?

We have two complete castoffs starting on the OL, a terrible 2nd year RT, promising LG who should be at C and a whiny headcase of a LT. We have no speed aside from Beckam, and a ton of lazy players on offense who don't do the little things winners do.

What the fuck are you expecting? Jenkins is done, Patterson is done, Kuhn is fucking terrible, Kiwi is like playing with 10 people, Beason is shot, McClain is nothing, and our vaunted DB bonanza is shot due to, shockingly, injuries.

This team is not good. We have some good players in spots but this is NOT NOT NOT a playoff team. No way no how. You don't shit the bed against the Eagles and let the Cowboys absolutely trample you if you are a playoff team. No guts, no heart, no hustle and very little good talent.
The team has enough talent ...  
Mike in Raleigh : 10/19/2014 8:25 pm : link
to be 5-2 or 4-3 (AT LEAST) ... when they are at FULL STRENGTH ... (with Jennings, Schwarz, Beason, etc.) ... now ... IMO ... it is time for them to find out about the young talent they supposedly have (as mentioned above).
-
I think the Giants are about 3 solid players from being SB contenders again - IMHO. (could be 4 - with 2 of them being OL). :)
WHERE is our Defense so very talented?  
Joey in VA : 10/19/2014 8:28 pm : link
Hankins, JPP...and....and...who? Rolle is not even close to the player we saw last year and everyone else is a never was and or has been. DRC makes a ton of money but when has he been a shutdown corner teams respect? NEVER..not once, never. He's our savior on defense? Quintin Demps is absolutely fucking shit, Hosley is nothing, Amukamara is average to middling and don't get me started on our horrific LBs. More talented??? Where? WHERE?

If you think we are vastly more talented than anyone anywhere, you need your fucking head examined.
I laughed when the cowgirls  
DavidinBMNY : 10/19/2014 8:28 pm : link
Hired a slew of coaches who were head coaches. Now I am crying that they have Marinelli and we have Fewell.
Out quicked  
Jupiter : 10/19/2014 8:29 pm : link
It always seems that every team the Giants play is quicker on offense and defense.
Joey in VA  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:31 pm : link
Quote:
No guts, no heart, no hustle and very little good talent.


I agree with this, but I put this on the coaching staff. Not the players.

My frustration stems from desire. You could make an argument that if you are the Dallas GM, you would trade almost every player on the Cowboys defense for the corresponding player on the Giants defense. What's the difference? The Dallas defense has heart hustle and coaching.

Don't get me wrong, Jerry Jones is just as clueless as ever, I think he just lucked into a semi-decent coaching staff and a band of misfits that play hard and hustle.
Another example"  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:33 pm : link
John Harbaugh. The 49ers players can't stand him but he is a master motivator and they play their asses off for him.
Vin, I couldn't have said it better:  
mrvax : 10/19/2014 8:33 pm : link
Quote:
It’s the little things. The frequent, drive killing/drive extending penalties. The stubbornness/repetitiveness of play calling. What seems to be a lack of desire/motivation at times. What seems to be a lack of preparation. The mental errors and lack of in-game adjustments is maddening. The nagging injuries. They can’t win the close ones. They are making the critical mistakes to lose games. For a coach that emphasizes attention to detail, this is poorly coached team. They can’t make plays when plays need to be made on either side of the ball. The inconsistencies with this team are completely mind-boggling. Lately, this team has come up small in big spots.


I've never posted this before but after the last 2 games (not based solely on them, mind you) I believe it's time for Coughlin to ride off into the sunset.

Sometimes you do have to change for the sake of changing. I like McAdoo quite a bit and I hope it was Coughlin's idea to run the ball far too often today, not McAdoo's.
I agree that  
TheNeumann64 : 10/19/2014 8:35 pm : link
this is a different situation than say 2010 or 2012. The talent on those team was on par with the teams that won titles, and they were done in by heartbreaking losses, and things that felt controllable.

This team? Sure there's some nice players, but I don't think they're any more talented than most other mediocre NFL teams. If they played Jacksonville, Washington, and Tennessee the next 3 weeks, they'd very possibly go on another 3 game winning streak and get us all excited again. The fact is they play 3 more good teams, and will be serious underdogs in all of them.

The talent is not bottom-5 in the league, but it's not anywhere near the upper tier of the league either.
Joey in VA  
Vin_Cuccs : 10/19/2014 8:37 pm : link
Here is yet another example: Dallas lost their best two defensive players (Sean Lee and DeMarcus Ware) prior to the season. They literally signed guys off the street. And they lost another pretty good player (Morris Claiborne) after a few games. But yet the guys they had playing surely beat the Giants asses.

Why? Coaching.
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