Where is this team headed?

Maybe.

still a lot of season left and none of us knows how this is going to play out. The NFL is so hard to figure out from week to week. Maybe I'm a bit on the crazy side but I can see them pulling off 6 wins over the remainder of the schedule. With a huge upset over the 49ers as one of those wins

sounds about right. No playoffs obviously. Regime change for next season as TC retires. MacAdoos fate dep on how much the new O shows rest of the season.

Probably 5-11 or 6-10.

In comment 11931560 natefit said:

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sounds about right. No playoffs obviously. Regime change for next season as TC retires. MacAdoos fate dep on how much the new O shows rest of the season.

In that scenario the Giants could hire a HC who doesn't believe in McAdoo's offense and wants to install his own. Usually when the HC goes his staff goes too

Get Schwartz back, and get a healthy dose of Jennings for the rest of the season.

I'd also like to see Kennard start playing to see if he helps the LB position.

We aren't a playoff team, but I would like to see our young players get experience.

With cap money and a decent draft position (6-7 wins), next year will be very important, esp after what appears to be two good drafts. A good draft next year could get us back into contention.

In comment 11931574 dpinzow said:

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In comment 11931560 natefit said: Quote: sounds about right. No playoffs obviously. Regime change for next season as TC retires. MacAdoos fate dep on how much the new O shows rest of the season. In that scenario the Giants could hire a HC who doesn't believe in McAdoo's offense and wants to install his own. Usually when the HC goes his staff goes too

I considered that. I think they brought Mac in for the long haul and Id think theyd explore a young HC/DC who could work with Mac. But hey we're all just guessing here. If they go for a Cowher type than for sure I agree with you.

seriously need to consider a new GM. The lack of talent and depth is pretty pronounced, and that is on Reese.

they're probably headed for 7-9 to 9-7. A couple injuries or breaks here and there and it's 6-10 or 10-6.

The more interesting exercise is to take the longer view. If you believe, as I do, that a team is largely a reflection of the its past 3 or 4 drafts, I think we're emerging from a poorer period into something more promising. Check out the drafts starting in 2008. Pro Football Reference has a stat category called "Number of Years as primary starter for his team at this position". That number is besides each player:

2008
Kenny Phillips 2
Terrell Thomas 3
Mario Manningham 4
Bryan Kehl 0
Jon Goff 1
Andre Woodson 0
Robert Henderson 0

2009
Hakeem Nicks 4
Clint Sintim 0
Will Beatty 4
Ramses Barden 0
Travis Beckum 0
Andre Brown 0
Rhett Bomar 0
DeAndre Wright 0
Stoney Woodson 0

2010
JPP 4
Linval Joseph 4
Chad Jones 0
Phillip Dillard 0
Mitch Petrus 0
Adrian Tracy 0
Matt Dodge 1

2011
Prince Amukamara 3
Marvin Austin 0
Jerrel Jernigan 0
James Brewer 1
Greg Jones 0
Tyler Sash 0
Jacquian Williams 2
Da'Rel Scott 0

2012
David Wilson 1
Rueben Randle 1
Jayron Hosley 0
Adrien Robinson 0
Brandon Mosley 0
Matt McCants 0
Markus Kuhn 0

2013
Justin Pugh 2
Johnathan Hankins 1
Damontre Moore 0
Ryan Nassib 0
Cooper Taylor 0
Eric Herman 0
Michael Cox 0

2014
Odell Beckham 0
Weston Richburg 1
Jay Bromley 0
Andre Williams 0
Nat Berhe 0
Devon Kennard 0
Bennett Jackson 0

Obviously the verdict is still out on 2014 and even 2013, but take note of all those zeros in the four drafts from 2009 to 2012. And the only Pro Bowler drafted from 2008 to 2013 (6 drafts) is JPP...whose level of play declined precipitously after that one great year.

To me all the talk about the on-field leadership (Coughlin, Gilbride/McAdoo, Fewell, and Eli) misses the point. I think the reason for the problems resides entirely in that list. Fortunately 2013 and 2014 look promising to this point.

a pronounced lack of stabiliity. Changing coach AND GM the same year really blows things up. But Reese sure holds his fair share of the blame...

No playoffs and hopefully watching philly or dallas gag it up in the playoffs.

1) too many broken plays on defense. Every week there is on play that goes for a td on miscommunication.
2)OL get too many stupid penalties to which set the team back.
3)Reese, Good early picks, then garbage later on. Over value character more than talent. Vontez burfict is amazing and you pass on him because there were some flags. DRAFT BEST PLAYERS not list of all people you would invite over christmas.
4) NO pass rush. next year. all picks should be in the trenches. OL and DL. extend prince and rolle. JPP is going to have to realize he is not worth big money. We need more pass rushers. We won superbowls with 4 passrushing studs. 2007 (Osi, Stahan, Tuck, Kiwi) 2011 (Tuck, osi, JPP, Kiwi) too many whiffs out there.

I think there will be a complete overhaul including coaching. The TC era may end but I hope this is not the case. We need to start drafting based on need in my opinion. And this injury bug needs to stop..how I dont know. Thats why quality depth is so important and i feel we do have it but key guys are now on IR. Imagine how this secondary would look with Thurmond? He signed a one yr deal and Reese will probably let him walk.

I hope they retain McAddoo as OC, and give him more power over the Offense which I think he deserves. This offense is markedly better than last years, and the best in the redzone I've seen in as long as I can remember. They need weapons for Eli still, WR, TE, RB, and at least another Stud on the OL.

That is a lot to ask for but I think we have promise in Donnell, OBJ, and Williams in the long run. We could use some veteran help behind them, that is a solid veteran WR and TE could do dividends. I'd like us to grab one of the premier RB's coming out of college this year like Gordon, Abdullah to grow behind Jennings and Williams.

More than anything this team needs a change at the DC spot, maybe even scheme change, or if TC retires I would like to see a smart minded defensive coach come in as HC (maybe Cowher). Can this team transition to a 3-4 though? I think we should be getting more from our front 4 than we have, and that is on Fewell. Look what Marinelli has done with what he has. I'd like to see this team remain a 4-3 D, but more so I would like this Defense to stop playing so damn soft which means getting rid of Fewell.

I see a .500 season at best, 8-8, with the likely-hood for this to not be so bad.

My hope is the OL improves and is not as big a concern as it is right now. Maybe Schwartz pans out, Richburg can move to the spot he was drafted for, and Pugh can regain his confidence. We need depth that is for sure, and maybe Pugh would be better at OG. We could use a K-Mac on the Right side of this OL, but more than anything we need push up the middle to be effective. We right now are in the same position as last year with having the middle of the pocket collapse and get no push, Walton and Jerry are not long term answers.

I think we will likely end up in position similar to last year but with more promise. We should be in position for a good draft, and it needs to be that way. The sooner the young players we have drafted over the past 2 years get into starting roles and on the field the better. That is one thing that TC absolutely needs to change if he expects long term success here. That may be wishful thinking, but hopefully he will see the light and make the changes necessary.

and let him help choose the new direction and coach. Look at idzik and rex. Talent procurement is more of a problem than the coaching at this point ( yes i dont like perry or quinn) . Got to improve the lines and team speed.

I'm on the fence with our GM. Yes we have had some bad drafts, but we have also had an absurd amount of high draft picks that have had their careers shortened due to injuries. I'm not sure any other team has had the critical amount of losses to high picks over that span than us. I might be somewhat willing to give Reese a pass, at least until we see what we have with the past 2-3 years of drafts. I think the owner should decide, if they can him, so be it. It may be for the best.

and clean up the lack of discipline and constant, repeated mistakes. Even then, 6-3 could be a tall order just to reach 9 wins in a season where it might not be enough to secure a wildcard.

The AZ loss is the type that almost always ends up haunting a team in the end, a conference loss at home that should've been a win in a season where wins are scarce.

The good news is the closing stretch of the season is favorable, the bad news is they could be 3-7 or 3-8 by the time they reach it.

This is a league wide problem, not just the Giants. The cap makes it very difficult to have quality depth at more than a couple of positions, especially if you have a 1 or two star players. For depth, most teams are reliant on either raw, young players or cheap veterans, who more often than not are cheap for a reason. This is not unique to the Giants.

after the next 4, I think it is at least conceivable the Giants finish with a 6-3 record the rest of the way. At 9-7, I still think the playoffs are a long shot given the teams already ahead of them. I think that finish would likely be enough to keep Coughlin.

However, O think in order to finish 6-3 or even 5-4, they need to at least split the next 4. 1-3 or 0-4 would likely be too devastating to overcome based on the team's last couple of years. That would very likely spiral out of control to a dismal 2-7 or 3-6 finish, leaving them below .500 for the season.

But we're headed to the Super Bowl next year!

I would still be fine with Coughlin remaining...but only if both Quinn and Fewell are gone.

To 3rd place. Whether that's a 6-10 or 7-9 finish doesn't matter much. Good luck winning with any consistency with a defense that is completely incapable of making a 3rd down stop.

The Giants don't have enough on offense to "scare" any defense. Beckham is looking good but he is still a rookie. We have a solid base to build around on offense for the future but you can't have as many injuries as we've had and expect to be a winner. Our defense is much worse than what I expected.

About a 5-11 record, 3rd place in the division because the Redskins are one of the worst teams in the league - and one of the few that the midgets can beat, and a top ten pick in next spring's draft.

Hopefully this even worse finish than last year triggers the wholesale changes that need to be made in the front office, the coaching staff, the player personnel, and the player support staff to make this team competitive again.

In comment 11931560 natefit said:

Quote:

sounds about right. No playoffs obviously. Regime change for next season as TC retires. MacAdoos fate dep on how much the new O shows rest of the season.

They will make a typical late run against a weak closing schedule, not make playoffs and we will be middle of the damn pack picking again in the draft.

Hopefully another year of hole patching, we come back better armed next year.

I agree the D will give just about every team a chance to beat us. But, I think this O does have enough for us to win games, especially as long as Eli is at the helm. Getting Beckham back is a big lift for them, especially since he can play outside or the slot and Parker is tepping up nicely. The TEs catch enough balls that if you pay attention to them, Randle and Beckham can get favorable match-ups and if you ignore them, they can pick up chunks of yardage in the middle. To me the key is when is Jennings back and can he stay healthy.

because the Giants are extremely conservative when it comes to firing their GMs. George Young won 2 SBs and got another 7 years of first mostly first round busts before he was let go in 1997. He lasted 18 years. Accorsi lasted from 1998 to 2006.

The Giants even gave most of the 1970s to Andy Robustelli. Before him, Wellington Mara was the owner and GM, so nobody was firing him

:-)

I think a sign of a quality franchise in the NFL is the ability to design your team around your personnel. To me that means that the Giants should build this team around Eli. If Eli succeeds, the Giants succeed. OBJ is a step in the right direction, but the clear lack over the last several years of draft/free agency to build the kind of O-Line needed to keep Eli upright instead of running for his life, (as well as to enable a solid running game) to me, is a real bummer and somewhat of an indictment on Giants management. The quality of the product placed on the field has deteriorated to me unacceptably over the past three years, and it sure doesn't look like it is on the upswing. That stinks because I held on to my seasons tickets when my Dad died in 2003, and it has gotten to the point where I can't even sell some of the game tickets anymore (I cannot attend them all because I live in northern VT). I am hopeful and true blue, but it sure looks bleak for the immediate future of this franchise. And I feel really bad for Eli; if he had an o-line that could protect him and run block, he would be winning games like the Dallas game for this franchise instead of sustaining all these losses. I sure hope his career isn't over early because of this problem.

but probably better than all other non-playoff team. Had the team stayed healthy they might be a playoff team, but, that would mask some serious issues.

OL and LB are the major issues, and the inability to consistently generate pass rush form other DE position,.

At least with the OL, you can see some aggressive moves to improve and some reasonable competence at drafting.

LB - WTF?

I can't imagine this OL facing off against a full strength SF front 7 and Seattle away, even with the Seahawks issues

In comment 11931653 viggie said:

Quote:

and let him help choose the new direction and coach. Look at idzik and rex. Talent procurement is more of a problem than the coaching at this point ( yes i dont like perry or quinn) . Got to improve the lines and team speed.

Except for the fact that its difficult to fire a 2-time SB winning GM even though his drafting from 2009 to 2012 hasn't been good and the last two drafts look better. Not saying Reese is the best GM in the league but we could do a lot worse than him. Reese will get a chance to work with another HC and probably put submit his input on who he wants to work with. The Jets situation is different because Woody saddled Idzik with Rex. In this hypothetical situation TC would get "forced into retirement" and the higher-ranking person (Reese) gets a HC, which could work provided Reese does his job and drafts well

I can't say last 2 drafts are promising yet. Pugh may be hurt or he may be better at guard, but it doesn't appear he was worth a mid 1st.Hank is a keeper, he just replaces Jospeh. Nassib has promise and who knows on Taylor. Moore is the question. Is it just TC or is the kid not that good.

As for 2014, Beckham and Richburg look good. Bromley who knows and Williams will learn to block and catch better, but he has no lateral ability. Kennard and Berhe, who knows?

In comment 11931594 Go Terps said:

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Jacquian Williams 2

The fact that he's been a "starter" for two years is a sad commentary on their linebacker situation.

If Eli stays it's the same uneasy match of West Coast and a downfield pocket passer.Eli can still zing it given time, but he doesn't fade back like he used to and zoom those long balls perfectly. He's okay in this system. But a young mobile guy would be better. But that's not gonna happen. So while the changes suggested are interesting, there's an element of "same ol, same ol."

they're going nowhere.

this team needs to rebuild the lines. They have to win the trench war in order to have consistent success in this league.

I'll tell you...They headed toward a bye.

Their defensive schemes, however, are not and are the reason they fail. Their DL are often out of position.

Reason I say that is, Jennings is now questionable, as to if and when he comes back that he can stay on the field.....Beason is another one....DRC is another one....

Going with Williams, Hillis, and Cox does not strike fear in the opposition.....losing Cruz puts more pressure on rookie OBj to produce....Randle, is looking like a lost cause....good play here, bad play there.....Parker is an average receiver....if he goes to the outside, and uses that block, we have a first down instead of 4th and one.....Donnell is looking like a mistake waiting to happen...Eli still does not look accurate with the short passing game....

Only hope for this team is that Schwartz comes back and replaces Jerry and we get a little more push from this OL....

Actually, I think the team has played well, for the personnel they have been putting out on the field.....it's a team that makes mistakes and does not show discipline out there.....this team could possibly be 4-3, possibly 5-2.....but game plans by this coaching staff, and this team's propensity for shooting itself in the foot, is the reason why we are 3-4.....facing Luck, two teams that we don't much up well with, and then by the time we face the Cowboys again, basically the season could be over.....

But I didn't think this team would make the playoffs, again, this year......I just hoped that we would see improvement over the shit show we saw last year....

so the Giants get a 2015 4th place schedule. We need some cupcake wins

Season of 10 and 6