The success of a line that featured 5th rounder Diehl, UDFA Seubert, and unheralded FA signee (and former UDFA) O'Hara made the Giants way too sanguine about their ability to mine diamonds in the rough for the OL. They drafted a gaggle of OL in rounds 4-7 for years, and struck out with all of them - plus Beatty hasn't been a runaway success with a second round pick.
If the Giants were choosing between Beckham and Martin at #12, and both are really good football players, then maybe that says something positive about the scouting department.
The success of a line that featured 5th rounder Diehl, UDFA Seubert, and unheralded FA signee (and former UDFA) O'Hara made the Giants way too sanguine about their ability to mine diamonds in the rough for the OL. They drafted a gaggle of OL in rounds 4-7 for years, and struck out with all of them - plus Beatty hasn't been a runaway success with a second round pick.
It 100% matters that Dallas started this OL rebuild a few years ago. My problem is that I think it was pretty clear we needed to do the same thing around the same time and we didn't. Probably for the reason Greg stated. This FO probably started to think they could get by just fine with a unit like the one we fielded in 2011.. and when you win a Super Bowl, it's hard to argue.
I think there's a pretty strong possibility that we go OL
in round 1 or 2 this year. It's obvious that the horses just aren't there on the line, and it's equally as obvious that quality OL play is the single biggest obstacle to better offensive production. A high-quality OL allowed the Giants to have an RB tandem that each gained 1000 yards despite neither back being considered as the cream of the position leaguewide. It's much easier for a great OL to make average RBs look good rather than the other way around.
We have to cross our fingers that they can strike lineman gold in the offseason. Not to say that we couldn't use more WR depth or a quality RB, but if you can't open holes or pass protect for more than three seconds skill players can't be used as effectively.
imv, the lines are more important (other than the QB) than
But I think it's easier to compensate for skill position weakness with a quality OL than vice-versa. Mediocre RBs behind excellent lines tend to be more productive than excellent backs running behind weak lines.
If only we'd had a bunch of first round picks we could have
The mistake was not drafting OL in rounds 2-3 when excellent prospects were staring them in the face in past, ie, Unger and others I've gotten tired of citing.
You don't toss your philosophy out the window as a kneejerk reaction.
And against the Eagles, pressure came from all across the OL. Everyone sucked. Zack Martin doesn't play all 5 positions on the OL.
OBJ is a dynamic player. Yes, we should have addressed the OL more in early rounds in the recent past, but OBJ is a stud. Not second-guessing that pick.
but to commit penalties because they can't cover him. I wanted Zack Martin as much as anyone (I'm a ND fan), but I can't complain when the player we have looks really good.
When Jenkins left the game the cowboys had run 9 times for 36 yards and on 5 of the 9 runs they gained 2 yards or less. Not a dominating performance by any stretch of the imagination.
They are getting blasted for starting Walton here and in other threads. Walton was a very good looking OC before he got hurt. There was a reasonable expectation that he would be a good pickup, as he was deemed healthy. it may not have worked out so far, but it isn't like it was a terrible move to pick him up.
It does start with the Oline! You build from there and everything else falls into place. Tell me did the Eagles have better WR's then the Giants?? No. The Cowboys imo have only 1 WR that's way better then ours in Dez after that what else do they have?? Not much.. So why so are their offense so much more successful?? Oline period. It even helps the defense as well, the longer the offense stays on the field the longer the defense gets rest.
Everyone looks better when people around them do their jobs...
2007-2010 Giants had a top 5 OL... with Snee as the only you could say would have done well anywhere, with any team. The others were products of the system IMO.
Martin has done a very good job, but would he look as good on a bad OL? Probably so, but you cant know for sure.
On the other hand, OBJ without training camp, and no other real threats on offense, continues to play at a high level.
It's easy to suggest Walton has struggled, Schwartz or insert player here was damaged goods, but the reality in a cap league is a team has to make choices. They can't spend big at 22 positions, so they build a case and make the best decision available to them. Walton (and Schwartz, to an extent) were calculated risks, bargain acquisitions, designed to fill a spot and to fit a puzzle piece into the cap structure.
All the money they spent in Free Agency on the OL was a waste
if our sorry ass Oline practices against our sorry ass Dline everyday....how do you get better? can we rent the Dallas Oline for practice during the bye?
And if we do we basically would have done the same thing Dallas did. We are just one year behind them in the progression. Richburgh is a very good player as well. Pugh has looked like he can play. Add another and the line will no longer be an issue.
I agree mostly. The NYG will need two more starters next year though: one in the first two rounds of the draft, and another in FA.
and I'm more than ok with it. Love what Beckham brings to the table. Imagine the WRs corps without him right now. Doesn't look pretty. Not to mention, Beckham is the prototypical WR for MacAdoo's offense.
That being said, Dallas' OL is impressive and will be a force for the next 5 years.
They counted on Snee because after the surgeries he and the doctors said he was good to go
After you sign Schwartz, addressing an issue, you clearly needed a no 1 WR. They are almost exclusively picked in the 1st round
What is funny is that Dallas was very successful running last year. They were just not committed to it. Martin gets a lot of praise but they were successful last year. Their philosophy changed with Romo hurting his back
He was on the field a little yesterday. I think he's started 2 of the 7 games and seen some degree of action in them. I'm not sure how he's actually played, though.
Truthfully, I wanted Martin but I have zero issue with having taken Beckham. He's played 3 games a good CB's are already having problems covering him.
next year, its the right type. We need size and we need some toughness. It seems like Coughlin is almost always bemoaning a lack of toughness. I think Richburg is a step in the right direction, but I'd like to see a new LT if we finish poorly enough where one is in reach and another Guard with some size to replace Richburg assuming he moves to center.
I'm very concerned about our own OL first rounder.
Ah, a good old Zack Martin thread. I heard that after the game, he saved 10 people in a burning house & then cured Ebola. Dude. Is. Amazing.
Beckham is going to be a star & Richburg looks like a good player. We're probably going to draft OL again high this year-fine by me-and our OL will be much improved next season.
you are not going to win if you lose the LoS and can't protect your QB. However go to the stadium and you can count the number of Olineman jerseys past and present and it might equal a 10th of Manning/Cruz Jerseys. Chicks dig the long all and guys identify with the glamour position football players. You will see a ton more number 13 Giants Jerseys sold than number 70 Cowboy Jerseys. You live your lineman but your game changers are the ones that make you jump up and down
moves to center when Schwartz returns? I guess Jerry is the weakest link and it would seem that is where Schwartz should go, but.....he played LG over the summer. Or is Richburg moved to RG?
I would think the least number of moves is best, so Schwartz to RG makes sense.
moves to center when Schwartz returns? I guess Jerry is the weakest link and it would seem that is where Schwartz should go, but.....he played LG over the summer. Or is Richburg moved to RG?
I would think the least number of moves is best, so Schwartz to RG makes sense.
I would think Schwartz would play RG and Richburg would stay at LG. Next year, I'd expect Richburg to be at center.
Yep
'nuff said.
I think you're precisely right.
Quote:
.. Joseph spent most of his Sundays inactive in 2010. It's not terribly abnormal, nor is it an indictment on the player.
I'd like to see how many third rounders this year haven't gotten on the field.
The position they play matters. The curve for each is not equal.
We have to cross our fingers that they can strike lineman gold in the offseason. Not to say that we couldn't use more WR depth or a quality RB, but if you can't open holes or pass protect for more than three seconds skill players can't be used as effectively.
I love Beckham, but he was not the right pick.
Eli, never had a hand laid on him - no sacks. Eli, after mid way in the 1st quarter had all day on most plays to throw.
Yes, that's how I think it should be. But there appears to be a philosophical difference on that on here.
As was pointed out during draft period, this draft had WRs worthy of starting into the 3rd round. There were plenty of WRs.
OBJ, Aaron Donald, Martin and CJ Mosley. Problems solved!
You don't toss your philosophy out the window as a kneejerk reaction.
OBJ is a dynamic player. Yes, we should have addressed the OL more in early rounds in the recent past, but OBJ is a stud. Not second-guessing that pick.
we should have drafting OL until it's fixed. it starts with the OL.
guess what, we suck. and we're gonna suck next week too. get used to it.
Doubt we'll suck next week since it's a bye...idiot
The guy they drafted to start in round 2 was Cyrus Kouandjio and he has yet to dress.
Martin has done a very good job, but would he look as good on a bad OL? Probably so, but you cant know for sure.
On the other hand, OBJ without training camp, and no other real threats on offense, continues to play at a high level.
It's easy to suggest Walton has struggled, Schwartz or insert player here was damaged goods, but the reality in a cap league is a team has to make choices. They can't spend big at 22 positions, so they build a case and make the best decision available to them. Walton (and Schwartz, to an extent) were calculated risks, bargain acquisitions, designed to fill a spot and to fit a puzzle piece into the cap structure.
They should have been drafting OL high for the past few years instead of pissing those picks away on useless or vanity selections.
one person DOES NOT fix an OL..
I agree mostly. The NYG will need two more starters next year though: one in the first two rounds of the draft, and another in FA.
That being said, Dallas' OL is impressive and will be a force for the next 5 years.
one person DOES NOT fix an OL..
Correct.."One person does NOT fix a line" But it's a good start, just like it's a good start with Richburgh too
Randle will probably be nothing more than average, Cruz's career is done. OBJ is going to be a very good WR. Lets be happy we have him.
Sorry, did I miss where cruz's career was done?
I wanted martin much more than obj. I threw the remote. But obj isnt looking like a bad pick either.
Honestly, the merits of the OBJ pick are based on richburg IMO.
Cyril Richardson in the third would have been great.
After you sign Schwartz, addressing an issue, you clearly needed a no 1 WR. They are almost exclusively picked in the 1st round
What is funny is that Dallas was very successful running last year. They were just not committed to it. Martin gets a lot of praise but they were successful last year. Their philosophy changed with Romo hurting his back
He was on the field a little yesterday. I think he's started 2 of the 7 games and seen some degree of action in them. I'm not sure how he's actually played, though.
Truthfully, I wanted Martin but I have zero issue with having taken Beckham. He's played 3 games a good CB's are already having problems covering him.
Specially with Cruz's injury, short term and possibly long term!!
Beckham is going to be a star & Richburg looks like a good player. We're probably going to draft OL again high this year-fine by me-and our OL will be much improved next season.
Romo had all day to throw, with nobody around him. Eli had no time at all.
If you give a good QB all day to throw, somebody will get open.
I love Beckham, but he was not the right pick.
Eli had plenty time against the cowboys. The pass blocking was there. Which is why, they should've stuck with it
I would think the least number of moves is best, so Schwartz to RG makes sense.
I would think the least number of moves is best, so Schwartz to RG makes sense.
I would think Schwartz would play RG and Richburg would stay at LG. Next year, I'd expect Richburg to be at center.