Looking back on the game yesterday I think I've got a bit of a different take than many around here. Yes, Dallas has a strong offense, but were it not for our squads unerring ability to shoot themselves in the foot time and time again we could have scored right there with them. The Dallas defense did not do anything spectacular to stop us, they often got in favorable down and distance scenarios due to Giant miscues and executed well given the advantage. Other than Perry Fewell's patented bend and break coverage there isn't another team in the league which doesn't defend reasonably well on third and long. Lets take it drive by drive:
12:57, 1Q. Three and out, runs of -2. 1, and 4 yards, the latter coming from the shotgun on 3rd and 11. I can understand wanting to establish the run early, but I know I'm sure as hell not the only one here that would like to take any play involving a handoff out of the shotgun on third and long out of the playbook, douse it in gasoline and burn it.
5:06, 1Q. Dallas just took a 7-0 lead. Two passes to Randle for solid gains, a three yard rush from Williams, and an incompletion sets up 3rd and 7. Not ideal but doable, especially compared to what's coming later. Parker doesn't quite get there (replay review time), but the offense is moving and at our own 46 the team is set to go for it on 4th and 1. I like the move, then the first of many mistakes begins. False start, 65, offense. Que the punt team. Drive squandered #1, by way of dumbass mistake.
0:52, 1Q. Dallas just had a penalty fueled three and out, we start on the 29. Two passes, first inc then a solid gain to Randle. Williams with a cloud of dust, Beckham running impressively for 13 and they are across midfield. Short run, inc, and here we go again with the stupid. 3rd and 7 becomes 3rd and 17, holding, 65, offense. Eli manages to overcome it with a 16 yard strike to Donnell and a 4th down blatant PI on Fells. Williams on 1st and 10 has his best run of the day for 22 yards to the 5. Cloud of dust and another stupid penalty, illegal substitution, 12 in the huddle. Basics folks. Eli hits Beckham for the TD, all is well. Drive succeeds despite an awful penalty by Beatty that set them back into 3rd and real damn long, it's 7-7.
8:00, 2Q. Prince just picked Romo and had a great return, field position is superb at the DAL 27. One play and it's in, Eli to Fells and it's 14-7. Now it's all downhill from here.
2:17, 2Q. Dallas just tied the game on a brutal drive featuring two big runs and three big passes (big being 10+ yards gained). Our response? An average 3 and out, short run, short pass, incomplete on 3rd and 4, punt. No big mistakes, just nothing going.
0:19, 2Q. Dallas with a 3 and out of their own courtesy JPP jacking up Romo on first down. Expecting the typical TC take a knee call, but instead they contest it. Sort of. 1st and 10 on the 29, incomplete. Odd to target Hillis up the middle with so little time left, if we're going to attack this is the time to get vertical. 2nd and 10, Hillis runs for 9 yards. Are we trying to score here? Because he's not breaking one on the ground. No chance. 2nd timeout. Alright, one more chance to take a shot deep... and they took that timeout just to run Hillis again. 19 pointless yards, time is up, half is over. What in the hell was the purpose of this? This did not establish the run, this was garbage yards against a defense pinned back for the pass when the time left on the clock dictated the need to go to the air. Even against that defensive environment in no world is Peyton Hillis breaking for a long TD. Speed, he lacks it. Drive squandered #2, by way of dumbass playcalling.
15:00, 3Q. Cox starts us off with a good return out to the 35. Haven't seen one of those in a while. After a good 1st and 10 run for 6, we get an incompletion and back to the stupid penalty machine, false start, 67, offense. 3rd and 4 becomes 3rd and 9. Eli, of all people, runs for 11 to overcome it. Near midfield Williams has a cloud of dust followed by a good 6 yard run, setting up 3rd and 5 which Eli converts to Parker for 13. Things are moving nicely, down to the 35. 1st and 10, run gets blown up, -3. Then here we go again, false start, 70, offense. It's now 2nd and 18 on the 43. The call is a Hillis run. It predictably gains precisely dick. 2nd and real damn long, I hate the call to run with our plodding 3rd string back. Hate it. Now it's 3rd and 18, you don't convert many of those, we go from 1st and 10 on the 35 and driving to a punt. Drive squandered #3, by way of dumbass mistake and dumbass playcalling.
6:15, 3Q. Dallas just shredded our defense to take a 21-14 lead. Cox returns it again with much worse results, only out to the 16. 21 yard return, but only because he caught it 5 yards deep. A 3 yard run on first down is useful, promptly losing 1 on second is not. 3rd and 8, Eli converts to Randle for 17. Hillis for 4 on first and 10 is good, Donnell for 21 is a strike downfield and we're moving again. First and 10 on the Dallas 40 and yes, it's dumbass penalty time again. Holding, 82, offense. First and 10 becomes first and 20. At this point my goal is get a chunk of yards, you don't need it all once, but if you can get 5-8 on first and 5-8 again on second you leave yourself with a reasonable third down and distance. You cannot get nothing and expect your QB to bail you out of 3rd and a mile. So... run the ball for a cloud of dust, then 2nd and 19 incomplete. Nice 9 yard pass on third down, but it doesn't mean anything when it was 3rd and 19. Time to punt. Drive squandered #4, by way of dumbass mistake and why the **** did we run on 1st and 20.
12:33, 4Q. Defense got a stop, it's still only 21-14, we're in this. Tough field position at the 11, nothing to be done about a good punt by Dallas. First and 10, cloud of dust. Frustrating at this point, I'll take a gain of 4, hell, even 3, but 1 does nothing for me. 2nd and 9 incomplete but a freebie first on DPI. After a first down harassed incompletion and measly 2 yard run on 2nd and 10 it's once again 3rd and long but not unworkable - 3rd and double digits we've done nothing, 3rd and 8 Eli and Co can do. He hits Donnell to the sticks, and here comes to godawful mistake brigade. Ball security lacking, it gets ripped out and it's Dallas ball. Drive squandered #5, by way of dumbass mistake.
9:11, 4Q. What did Dallas do with that gift? Double the lead, 28-14. After a touchback we're now in no huddle, as it's must score time. Donnell for 9 on first down, run on 2nd and 1. No complaints on the call, that's a perfectly reasonable time to do it as any team should be able at this level to line up and get a yard. Except they can't, thankfully 3rd and 1 was more effective for 9 on the ground. Following this Eli carves em up, 4 straight in the air for 17, 16, 13, and 11 drives the team down to the 5. It takes 4 shots to finish it but they do, OBJ with his second TD of the day gets the much needed score. I like this version of the team, where the hell has it been all day? 28-21.
0:59, 4Q. The defense couldn't get a stop and Dallas has a two score lead. We have to hit em fast and hard or it's over. 1st and 10, hit Donnell for 13. Great. First and 10, hit Donnell for 6, and not this shit again, fumble, Dallas ball. Drive squandered #6, by way of dumbass mistake. That's game folks.
In summation...
Drive 1. 3 and out. Hate the third down call.
Drive 2. Thanks Beatty. Mistake ends it.
Drive 3. TD despite stupid mistake, thank you Eli.
Drive 4. Quick strike TD set up by INT, thank you Prince.
Drive 5. 3 and out, nothing doing.
Drive 6. What the hell? Awful playcalling before the half.
Drive 7. False start yields 2nd and 18, run Hillis, fail.
Drive 8. Now trailing, holding yields first and 20. What are we gonna do? Run for nothing, leave nigh impossible third and long as hell, just like the last drive.
Drive 9. Signs of life, then Donnell fumble #1.
Drive 10. No huddle because we're down 14 in the 4th, and Eli carves em up. Best sustained drive of the day.
Drive 11. Urgency needed, then Donnell fumble #2.
False start penalties are a matter of discipline. We lacked it. Same goes for Donnell's ball security. Third and less than 10, Eli's got this. Third and 10+, often set up by not only a penalty by then a 1st or 2nd and long run for nothing, that's how you kill a drive. We had chances to take this game and score right there with Dallas, and instead via stupidity gave it away. End rant.
Ideally you'd like them not to get into stupid distances. But when you do, you need chunks of yards, and we're not getting them on the ground. Hit Donnell on the seam for 8, hit Randle on a comeback for 8, hit OBJ on a slant for 8, just pick up some damn positive yardage with our much more accurate than years past QB and try to get into a 3rd and less than 10 scenario. That we have a good chance to convert, but when you get buried 1st and 20 or 2nd and 18 and promptly run for nothing it's throwing the drive away.
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What's going on man? Due to stupid shit we were put in bad down and distances. What plays did you have in mind? We have unproven offensive weapons. We are in a conservative system coming off a shit show performance on offense. What did you expect in terms of play call? Or better yet, what did you want called?
Ideally you'd like them not to get into stupid distances. But when you do, you need chunks of yards, and we're not getting them on the ground. Hit Donnell on the seam for 8, hit Randle on a comeback for 8, hit OBJ on a slant for 8, just pick up some damn positive yardage with our much more accurate than years past QB and try to get into a 3rd and less than 10 scenario. That we have a good chance to convert, but when you get buried 1st and 20 or 2nd and 18 and promptly run for nothing it's throwing the drive away.
I am not sold on Donnell. I think he is utilized sparingly outside the red zone and that's what makes him effective. I wouldn't keep going back to him because I don't think he is that good.
I wanted to see slants. I only saw OBJ run one. I can't remember if we ran any more. If we did, not sure what was the total count.
We have a conservative system. Fans have to get used it to. It isn't fuck it I am going deep style offense. If we are in a shitty down and distance And the game isn't on the line we will be conservative.
Our OL is coming off a shit show game. So we kept things conservative this past game. I have no issue with that. Eli got his 3 TDs and high QB rating. So I am very very happy. This team is a work in progress so if we can't win or even if we do win, I want Eli to get his. He did so for me that's the solver lining. Fucking hate to lose though, but if we must then I wanted Eli to get his stats.
I think fans need to get used to this play calling at least until our OL gets better AND until we add more playmakers. Until then expect to see more of what we ran especially after a game like philly where the OL was god awful.
Just curious...
Perhaps that's what Dallas wanted. Get in bad situations and pin their ears back and hit Eli . At that point the drive is done. We don't have the talent to overcome that in a consistent basis. Moreover , our offensively talent is weak. So when that happens we are being conservative and then punting. Again, I have no issue with that. Our OL and penalties are killing drives before they even can get going. We are not good to over come that.
We wanted to screen. Again, shit show OL and screen is done before it can get going resulting in throwing the ball in the ground. These fuckers can't run block and barely can. pass block. Its only fitting that they suck at setting up blocks for screens. So we have to throw more X and Z hot.
Our OL is killing us. Its basically quick game stuff. Philly game I said we we t away from our usually offensive passing concepts and returned to the previous system and we got the ever living shit kicked out of us. So now this game we went back to our system and even become more conservative. Again, I have no problem with that. Those fools still had issue on the OL.
Want better play calling? Get a better OL that can block, pass and run, and not do stupid shit to put the offense in bad D/D. Until then, Ben M. said he would tailor the offense to our talent. We don't have that much talent so... You get conservative play calling.
The offense was really frustrating yesterday. Everything was frustrating yesterday. We couldn't afford to make mistakes against a better football team in their building and we made plenty. Another case of bad discipline which seems to be far too much of a theme for a TC coached team.
screen guy...and have some short slants w parker
and 13. Some off direction runs like ps...not up middle
use 83 or 13 in back field and do screen or delay run..
We need some plays to counter pass plays and
compliment run...keep up tempo...but these runs
up middle w 9 in box...slow tbe tempo down and
dont fit this O....I love Williams but not good
hands and pounder...does he fit this system..
id find a speedy back and get rid of cox
The last drive ended on a turnover due to poor ball security, that's a minus no matter the amount of time on the clock.
Before halftime I expected them to take a knee, and if they had would not have complained about it. I wouldn't characterize an incomplete short pass over the middle to Hillis as taking a shot. This is going to sound overly simplistic, but the point of a possession is to try and score - the three calls on that drive had no chance of doing so, and for that reason I see it as an opportunity wasted.
that's fair. I would have that then throw to freaking RR who isn't going to do anything. Let's see if we do that in future games. Will oBJ play in this slot? Maybe we see more of that perhaps. But I want to see that . I would like more reverses and end around too.
The penalties suck but this offense is a WIP. Work in progress so this is the shit we will have to watch as they have their fuck ups. Its very frustrating but we did score 3 TDs and Eli had a great stat day. So while it sucks so lose, Eli did very well. 14 TDs to 5 Ints. So very happy about that.
When we moved the ball right down the field on them late in the game, Marinelli didn't have any adjustment for it, he just kept running the same looks. I feel like we could and should have exploited that earlier on.
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if he's singled up and the DB is playing off, take the one step drop and get the ball in his hands. It's in the system and was called a few times to Randle earlier in the year (and does not work well with him), but OBJ has the quick twitch ability to take that situation and turn it into positive yardage that our other receivers lack.
that's fair. I would have that then throw to freaking RR who isn't going to do anything. Let's see if we do that in future games. Will oBJ play in this slot? Maybe we see more of that perhaps. But I want to see that . I would like more reverses and end around too.
I agree on not wanting that call to Randle, he doesn't make the first man miss well and that's critical to executing that call. The slot work of OBJ on the second TD yesterday showed promise, but other than that play I don't recall seeing him deployed there. The more ways they can get the ball in his hands the better, he's athletically in another class compared to any of our other options at WR, TE, and RB.
When we moved the ball right down the field on them late in the game, Marinelli didn't have any adjustment for it, he just kept running the same looks. I feel like we could and should have exploited that earlier on.
I agree, although I don't think they were far off.
For sure, some of the run calls were bewildering (Hillis' 3rd down runs should never, ever be repeated again unless we're in serious garbage time). The point of the runs was to try to maintain some semblance of TOP, because if we let the Cowboys hold on to the ball we were going to get steamrolled.
By the 3rd quarter though, I think it was time to abandon that and try to get back to some of the uptempo offense that we ran successfully earlier in the season.
The Giants got a 14-7 lead and had Dallas pinned at the 7 and the defense does what it has done for almost 2 years. Give up the momentum and a game tying drive
Since mid 2012 when this offense does something, the majority of drives right after the Giants seize any momentum they immediately give it back
The Dallas D targeted the middle of the line because there is no lateral threat right now. It is up to the Coaches to make adjustments
I've been on BBI long enough to know it usually comes down to the Hatfield /McCoys, cowboys/farmers (ala Oklahoma) divide about who is at greater fault - Reese and the talent he has put on the roster (or not), or poor coaching by TC and his minions.
The truth is probably a measure of both; Reese has had some crappy drafts, and we've had more than our share of injury misfortune, but I do have to confess a strong sense of frustration about TC's inability to get his team to play "clean" games in terms of penalties despite his (undeserved) reputation as a disciplinarian and questionable play calling under his watch.
Nice catch. 2 last week by Jerry in the gun, Pugh and Richburg this week as well.
WM,
Yeah get the ball to OBJ anyway possible. But soon enough film will be out in what we want to do to accomplish that. So the other fools need to contribute. RR is average at best and I trust no one else. This offense lacks talent. Overuse OBJ and they will take him away and we are back to square one in hoping someone else steps up.
It really is a sucky situation. Someone else needs to step up. It would be nice if RR can elevate his game.
And horrors, we had false start penalties on the road where we had to go to silent counts. This is all totally unexpected and a startling discovery.
That whole critique was nothing more than the usual "the play not called would have definitely worked" and "penalties can be troublesome" with a dose of "the Cowboys have a real good offense"
At WR somebody has got to step up, outside of the bonehead holding foul RR had a decent game Sunday. Parker got 51 snaps and only 2 catches, plenty of time in the slot but not much in the way of results. Hopefully when Jennings gets back he can get more involved in the passing game, not just screens but some wheel routes and having an effective check down option out of the backfield as well.
I would like to see more TE use. I still am not sold on our TE unit. Now Cruz is out, they need to be use more and produce a lot more.
Thank You for seeing through the gross stupidity.
My question to all …
Why not a two TE set (have we tried that, I haven't noticed one) - and I mean as a PASSING formation).
It's obvious we miss play-maker Victor Cruz, big-time, but it's also obvious that Eli really loves to throw to tight ends. Donnell's fumbles notwithstanding, (can be overcome with good coaching), I think we have two tight ends who are equally capable of making significant plays. In fact ….
I'd like to see Donnell in the slot (not getting jammed at the L.O.S, I think he could do a lot of damage)
Right there, that play, we needed to take a shot for 7!
Another gripe: OBJ called a fair catch on on punt that to me looked like it was blocked up beautifully! The gunner closest to OBJ was still ~5 yards off him, the other gunner was blocked well even further away, and the next closest guy to Beckham was about 15 yards off or more. I thought OBJ squandered a great shot at a huge PR there... That was IIRC in the 2nd quarter sometime.
I haven't seen anyone mention it post game. Maybe in the game thread someone saw the same missed opportunity?
Sometimes it ain't on Quinn.
Honestly I think the lack of faith in the offense (seemingly by TC) seems to be a comparable problem to the lack of offense. Not only is the play calling far too conservative but I think we lose a huge momentum shift. When JPP gets the sack to make it 2nd and 19 and we essentially let them run down the without calling a TO, then run down the clock ourselves. We could pass on Dallas and we chose not to in lieu of more conservative play calling, which is just the worst way to lose. I actually remember the whole first half against Atlanta thinking "we can pass on this team" only watching them refusing to call pass plays. Finally when they did they moved the ball consistently and won the game.
As for what plays to call. Slants, button hooks, back shoulder fades at the first down marker. (His signature play with Nicks that RR seems capable of running too) short crossing routes. They over commit to the short routes and you try and burn them deep quickly on go routes to OBJ or PP.
Eli is actually looking as sharp as ever (no turnovers the last 3 games) Winning conservatively is great but few teams can pull it off. If you are going to lose, lose aggressively, this conservative losing BS is painful to watch as a fan.
Thanks for doing such a good job of outlining it WM.
Thank you
I agree 100%. This seems to be a repeating pattern for the last three or four seasons: running for little or no gain late in a game when they need to score quickly. It's been called "keeping the defense honest" or "setting up the pass".
Both those strategies only work when the running game poses a real threat to gain significant yardage which the Giants can't do with the run. Early in the game, fine, see what the running game can do. When the game is on the line its time to do what has worked in that game and only what has worked.