"Peek behind the banners," says one longtime NBA agent, "and it's rotten."
"Kobe is like the big rock in their front yard," says an agent who has had a Lakers client in recent years. "You can't mow over it, so you just have to mow around it."
Another agent with current Lakers clients was asked whether Bryant undermined the team's rebuilding by alienating would-be free agent recruits. "Well, duh," he replied. "Isn't that obvious?"
"I've had a lot of clients in the last five years, good players, who didn't want to play with Kobe," says an agent who has had numerous NBA stars. "They see that his teammates become the chronic public whipping boys. Anyone who could possibly challenge Kobe for the spotlight ends up becoming a pincushion for the media. Even Shaq."
"I just never felt like the Lakers put as much effort into the building-the-team part of it," says an agent who once had a free agent decline a Lakers offer. "I saw some things in the players' parking lot. Conversations between Bynum and his people and some people with the Lakers. It got pretty rough and heated."
"It's horrendous. It's evil. It's a hard drug to quit when you're winning," says a front office executive from a rival team who knows everyone involved well. "Kobe has cost the Lakers dearly in human capital. Kobe has hurt a lot of people. In some cases jeopardized careers."
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+1.
Jim Buss is the new Jimmy Dolan.
Isn't it agents and executives that are piling on? Certainly not the media. Kobe is the media's darling.
3 sidekick rings have inflated the hell out of kobes legacy
Also heard horror stories about Chris Berman. Then I met him and he started a convo with me talking sports, he was actually a very nice guy.
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Kobes greatness lies in the fact that he was a top 5-6 player for 13 or 14 years in a row. Hell of an accomplishment. He was never at any point though decisively the best player in the league, even during his lone mvp season.
and i love how lebron was scared to face wade, who in the 4 years prior to lebrons arrival was sub .500 with zero playoff series wins. Or boshs raptors. Lets see them go win 55 games this year and contend like the bulls did without mj in 94, the overexpansion pre foreign talent infusion most watered down era in nba history
Should we consider Gasol a ring chaser now?
This is true. It's been evident from the beginning.
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Two other top ten players because I'm scared face. Or the flop as a steroid ridden 270 lber and then look disgusted when I get called on it face.
Should we consider Gasol a ring chaser now?
By going to Chicago? LOL a little presumptuous aren't we?
These articles are for the MoM's who fifteen years from now will have altered history enough to show that Kobe was just a hair above the level of Smush Parker.
That guy is a fucking toilet stain.
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In comment 11933418 chris r said:
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Two other top ten players because I'm scared face. Or the flop as a steroid ridden 270 lber and then look disgusted when I get called on it face.
Should we consider Gasol a ring chaser now?
By going to Chicago? LOL a little presumptuous aren't we?
You dont see Chicago as a top contender? They are easily at worst the 2nd best team in the East and probably a top 5 team in the NBA.
Most incredibly driven, focused individuals aren't well liked because they demand others work as hard as they do, and most people don't want to work that hard.
There is plenty to dislike about Kobe and much criticism to be made. But using Andrew Bynum in any way to make that point is laughable and undermines the topic.
Lets not mistake drive with petulance. Kobe is often a little baby. And before we laud that as a trait responsible for titles, lets ponder how many they robbed the lakers of after 02 and before the pau trade in 08. He basically blew up a dynasty in progress because he didnt want to be 2nd fiddle. First by poisoning the locker room from the inside out and then by orchestrating the break up.
He's fishing for haters.
I'm not sure where the revisionism is. Rather, the conventional wisdom (which is correct) seems to be that those were indeed Shaq's teams and Kobe was the clear 2nd guy. A fact re-inforced once Shaq was gone and they were a mostly middling team until another capable (though obv not Shaq level) big came to LA. Will never forget his game 7 against Boston where he was ice cold all night and totally bailed out by Pau & Artest.
kobe was a top 5-6 player himself during the kobe/shaq threepeat, dont get me wrong. He wasnt some bystander by any stretch. But shaq during this period was just historically dominant, best player in the league by a mile. Could have been a legit goat contender if he gave a shit about staying in shape
kobe was a top 5-6 player himself during the kobe/shaq threepeat, dont get me wrong. He wasnt some bystander by any stretch. But shaq during this period was just historically dominant, best player in the league by a mile. Could have been a legit goat contender if he gave a shit about staying in shape
Yet an old ass already been paid millions upon millions Kobe Bryant refused to take any paycut whatsoever. Fuck You, Pay Me. That's what Kobe said to the Lakers. I lost a lot of respect for Kobe with these past negotiations. He clearly valued money over everything and it was a slap to the face of the Lakers.
Kobe's a douche but we've always known that. It's the absurd contract that he signed for that's the real problem in LA.
Also, people can harp on "Fredo" Buss all they want. He is horrible when it comes to coaching hires, but homeboy put a plan in action, successfully prior to the veto after the tears of other owners piled up, to pair Paul, Kobe, and Howard together. Would still rather have Jeanie running the show, but I haven't forgotten that he pulled that trigger.
Shaq
Gasol
Dwight
Those are the 3 best players Kobe has played with over his career. He ripped all 3 of those guys in public. Called Shaq a lazy fuck, showed Howard no respect, and he continually ragged on Gasol for being a pussy. Despite the fact that Gasol outplayed Kobe in most of the big games during their two-peat.
Dwight, however, got everything he deserved. Flat out refusing to run the plays that are called, refusing to work on parts of his game, telling Nash he doesn't need his help regarding free throws, refusing to care. Fuck him. I'm glad he is gone as someone who loves the franchise.
He had Nash to run the pick and roll but he wanted the ball in the low post for that joke of a game he has down there. He played like a chump. He's one of the most overrated players out there.
He thinks he's on par with the great C. He isn't close.
Thats absolutely not true, especially when you consider their health situations in postseason. (Wade delaying surgery to play banged up in both title runs, was a shell of himself in the 2nd title postseason and one of the worst 2nd options on a title winner in playoff history. Bosh was out with an ab tear for most of the first title run playoffs, and in the 2nd run was abused all playoffs playing out of position at the 5. Allowing roy hibbert to look like prime shaq.
And when you consider how shitty a fit it was too, this claim is just silly. A supporting cast is not just about the scoring ability of youre 2nd or 3rd best player, youre just overrating the importance of having multiple volume scorers on the same team, even though they couldnt possibly achieve that volume while playing together (because there is only one ball). Chris bosh not getting enough shots to have peak offensive value the past 4 years is just a floor spacer who was a liability on the glass and in post defense playing the 5, making guys like roy hibbert look like the 2nd coming of prime shaq routinely. Numbers he puts up on the raptors or even now in the new heat situation are not indicative of his potential impact in all basketball situations. A big who could defend the paint and rebound would have provided more value to this heat team, who won in spite of being the 2 worst rebounding teams to ever win a title, and it was a given theyd get massacred inside.
Lebron had to wear more hats for his team than jordan or kobe ever did during a title run as the leading scorer, rebounder, assist man and top defender at 4 different spots. He was never handed a frontcourt who could defend and control the boards as well as any of mjs bulls teams or kobes lakers title teams. He didnt have a guy like scottie pippen on his wing to lighten the defensive and playmaking load, freeing jordan to score at volume. You wont see the post lebron heat win 55 games and contend for a title like the 94 bulls without mj, and miami did more to replace lebron than those bulls did to replace mj.
Wade played great ball in the first run. He never left the court and was an outstaning #2. Better than Gasol's best.
The 2nd title, Wade was not the same but he played 37 min/game and scored 20 in the finals.
37 min game. 19.6ppg. .505TS% 4.6apg 2 steals.
He thinks he deserves a spot on the Mt Rushmore of centers. Just a joke.
1. Miamis offense worked much better with shooters to space the floor against the spurs defensive plan
2. Wade was getting killed losing danny green on screen after screen and playing a huge role in allowing him to obliterate sn nba finals record for threes made
3. Wades series numbers are massivrly inflated by game 4, a game where miami made its defining run with wade on the bench (as usual)
He had a couple big games vs the spurs, but his playoffs in general was shitty, and many of his numvers hollow
plus, if all you look at is offense anyway, jadon terry gave that mav team a more efficient scoring punch in the playoffs than wade did miami in 13
I'd give a clear edge to the talent on Lebron's first run. The 2nd maybe not better than the Lakers. I'm not a big fan of Gasol but I don't like Bosh that much either.
but tough time forming much of a "lebrons not clutch" argument around thst series when the weight on the other side of the scale is substantially greater
but tough time forming much of a "lebrons not clutch" argument around thst series when the weight on the other side of the scale is substantially greater
You can't argue he was green (he was 26 and had been to the finals before) and you can't argue he had to carry the team because Bosh and especially Wade were playing well.
You act as if saying "well if only he had been more aggressive, he wouldn't have been so dreadful" softens how bad he was. First off all, that's incomplete. He shot 3-11 in that 8 point game. So even the shots he was taking were not going in.
2nd, exactly...he wasn't being aggressive, which is itself a poor showing. If anything the only real knock on Lebron at the end of the day will be that he isn't aggressive enough at times. He pulls back or defers to the pass when he should just keep shooting and driving when he's hot. This happened multiple times in the Spurs series we just saw. They weren't going to beat SA anyway the way the Spurs were playing, but it would have been closer.
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And people never want to talk about how joel anthony was 4th on that team in playoff minutes after the big 3. Joel anthony barely belongs in the league. Depth can be overrated, but the 11 miami heat had less depth than any team to ever show their face in a final and it wzsnt close
Haha, I guess I caught that halfway through once and didn't know what it was. "He's probably the best on-on-one player in the game" - Durant
haha
I can't wait to see what Davis does this season. With a true C like Asik next to him and one more year of development, I foresee utter domination.
I just don't think he had less help especially with the first titile. Even with the 2nd title, Wade wasn't the same but MIA still had Bosh, excellent shooters, and some top defenders like Battier & Anderson (another non-scorer I love).
So MJ did it right but Lebron is a ring chaser...? Bulls can suck it.
Youre putting too much stock in the scoring capability of your 2nd and 3rd best players, a capability most often unrealized or severely diminished because there arent enough touches in a game and only one ball. Miami won despite some absolutely glaring weaknesses. Historically bad on the glass, as bad as it gets defensively on the interior. Its not common for one player to lead any team, let alone a team who goes to the finals every year, in scoring, rebounding and assists 4 years in a row. Not to even mention his defensive responsibilities having to guard several different positions. He had as much put on his plate as anyone could possibly have
So MJ did it right but Lebron is a ring chaser...? Bulls can suck it.
Come on Horace grant was good... but he wouldn't sniff the PF of those days. Barkley, malone, oakley, kemp, worthy were all far better at the top of my head.
And then MJ got to play with the best defending PF of all time in rodman - The best rebounding force of his era. Excuse me while I don't hold any pity parties for Jordan. If pippen doesn't develop MJ and stops getting headaches during piston playoff games MJ probably murders him and then sneaks away to another team.
When he left to go play baseball, between the combination of the weakness of the league and the quality of his help, the bulls still remained roughly as good as anyone in the nba. They won 55 games and were in a battle for homecourt through the playoffs, they lost a heartbreaking 7 game series due to a horrible foul call against a knick team who themselves came within seconds of a title. There wasnt much separating chicago from the leagues best teams even without mj.
You dont go 72-10 just because your team is awesome. Thats also an indictment on your league. Not surprisingly happening in yet another expansion year, where they were adding their 6th and 7th new teams over 7 years with the raps and grizzlies coming in. And again doing so in a time period where the league was still almost exclusively american with a far smaller talent pool to choose from.
That doesnt take anything away from mjs greatness, but when people tslk about lebron getting breaks relative to him its impossible to take. Jordan played during the most watered down time period ever, only made worse bythe fact that several all star caliber talents, no less than 7 or 8, dropped literally dead, contracted a deadly disease, or had career altering health situations aroundthe time chicago began their ascent
But scottie was awesome. He was basically a poor mans lebron james, less refined as a scorer, he was 6'8", could guard point guards and run an offense like a point guard. Walking triple double threat on any given night. Incredibly versatile and perfectly crafted to play with jordan above all. He was basically a point forward who ran their offense allowing jordan to do his thing off the ball as a pure scorer. He was a historically good defensive player with great wingspan and quickness, was able to shield jordan a lot of defensive wear and tear by often accepting the toughest perimeter matchup. And he didnt require a ton of shots to be effective (not his game anyway) which would have been problematic trying to coexist with mj. He was pretty much the perfect sidekick to mj.
To use your words, that doesn't take anything away from mjs Lebron's greatness, but if you're considering the context Jordan played in, consider that of Lebron too. Absurd talent out West (yet another soon to be superstar out there in Davis), mostly crap in the East. Hopefully Rose/Pau can stay healthy and make things interesting.
Jordan in today's NBA would sleepwalk every single year to to Finals through the East.
Your watered down point has more resonance wrt the 90s but, just like Lebron, once MJ (unlike in the 80s) had a little help, the rings started rolling in.
Had that series ended as it should in game 6 it's a bad seriers for him. But instead we have to hear about him having a bad supporting cast? Give it a rest
Whatever the stats were is irrelevant the eye test was he was not good until game 7 and it would have been another wart if Ray ray didn't bail it out
But instead we hear about some no support ring.
Lebron is great and top 5 all time in the end likely, but the selective memory is absurd
Scottie Pippen would be a Don Nelson's wet dream as a coach. The numbers Pippen could put up with that style of offense of run and gun.... I would bet he would come somewhere near 100 or more.
Its true that the modern east is weaker than the modern west, but that doesnt mean the modern east or league as a whole still isnt a ything other than substantially better than ehat we saw in ghe 90s. Its faulty logic just looking at records and thinking theyre comparable across eras, as if winning 50 in 1994 makes you better than winning 44 in 2014. The league is way deeper in talent now, its not even close. They were adding an average of a team per season for 7 seasons in jordans prime, without the foreign boom to supplement the growth. Everything got watered down and the result was the weakest era weve seen since the merger.
Go paint the mid 90s east as so loaded when the bulls damn near won it without him
It just didn't happen
We all watched the seriers
Him getting the ring changes perceptions that year....... Odd coming from someone complaining about ring counters.
He was statistically v good for an MVP but no help?ummmm not so much
and talk about selective memory. You boil all of game 6 down to ray allens shot but neglect to mention lebron scored or assisted on 25 consecutive points through the late 3rd and 4th, furiously leading miami back from down double digits. Scores 30 plus with a triple double, only the the 4th time it was ever done in finals history and the first time in over 20 years, plays bigtime defense on tony parker late. But yea that was only about ray allen
his shitty 2013 finals also closed with him authoring the highest scoring game 7 finals performance in history
this is where the expectations become ridiculous, when his 2013 series is somehow seen as terrible.
I remember the series like it was yesterday. I have no problem saying Lebron didnt play up to his standard for the first few games of that series.... actually I believe he had 2 really bad games.
But he was the only reason they came in game 6 until allen's shot. And he had a monster game 7.
This nonsense that Allen bailed him out is nonsense. Last time I checked as Jordan's biggest fan..... John Paxson and Steve Kerr made GW shots in the finals.
Ray Ray bailed that out.... And we move on
But just because they won pls don't real off all these stats and tell me it was a one man show Herculean effort
That is my issue
You havent seen just as ridiculous arguments in this thread to knock Kobe or MJ in an attempt to maybe just maybe put Lebron on more of a pedestal than he needs to be on? Kobe was a role player on some of the Laker titles now? WTF? The Jordan-less Bulls almost won the East? They didnt. The Knicks did. The end.
It goes both ways.
Why do you put weak in quotes? The conference sucks. The non-James Heat will seed this season easily, prob 4-6.
I'm hoping like hell as we all should that Rose stays healthy, because otherwise we will continue to be robbed of some great basketball with an all-time great player. The EC playoffs last season were utterly soporific, while the West was a high flying thrill. Probably the 8th and certainly the 7th seed in the West could have beaten any team in the East save Miami.
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The arguments people create to knock LBJ down have just become so utterly ridiculous at this point that nothing short of shooting like 85% from the field, dropping a triple double and hitting the game winning shot in every game is good enough.
You havent seen just as ridiculous arguments in this thread to knock Kobe or MJ in an attempt to maybe just maybe put Lebron on more of a pedestal than he needs to be on? Kobe was a role player on some of the Laker titles now? WTF? The Jordan-less Bulls almost won the East? They didnt. The Knicks did. The end.
It goes both ways.
I didn't see anything that said Kobe was simply a role player on his championship teams.. but when Shaq was there, Shaq was the lead dog there without question. Kobe wasn't. That's 100% true.
neither scored a point in game 7. Lebron absolutrly carried that team throughout that playoff run without a ton of help. Of course nothing like jordan, who scored every point, grabbed every board, guarded all 5 players on the floor, filmed a nike commercial and called it a day. I remember back in 92 when he beat portland at the buzzer by shooting a basketball directly out of his ass. He did it because jerome kersey dared him to, and mj was too much of a competitor to pass it up. Not a guy like lebron who is scared of a challenge and clearly wouldnt shoot it out of his ass
the lengths a lot of jordan fans go to to nitpick lebron are comical. It also is the era. Pre internet age, jordan could go struggle most of the series vs seattle getting locked down by gary payton who played with a torn calf. But the bulls win the series, everyone takes a deep breath and talks about how awesome mj was. Same way when he struggled mightily vs the knicks in 93 and the atlantic city stuff. Or in other instances. People didnt take a fine tooth comb to his successess.
and the 94 bulls lost a nailbiter 7 game series to the conference champion knicks in large part to a universally accepted atrocious call by hue hollins gifting hubert davis fts in game 5. They won 55 games desite being hit by injury including not having mj, and had they beaten the knicks theyd have been clear favorites vs indiana
its absurd to quibble with the notipn that the 94 bulls almost won the east. They were capable of winning a title that year too if a possession or two goes differently. They were every bit as good as the knicks and houston, but only one team could win
From a basketball perspective, kobe does not deserve to be compared to either of them. Its really not close
Duncan and Dirk are out there placing team over self, and Kobe's out there getting every single penny. I can't blame a guy too hard for getting as much money as possible, but come on. Kobe's made nearly $300 MILLION from NBA contracts alone, who knows how much more he's made in sponsors.
Just a selfish act by Kobe. If Dirk and Duncan can do it, so can he.
I dont have a problem with him getting his money. I think its admirable when guys take less. Im not sure what id do in that spot, i guess it depends on the situation. But i cant kill him for it, thats his personal business. Maybe if the team was in a better spot he might entertain taking less. Maybe not. Maybe hes realistic about them not contending these next couple years and figures just get paid and pad those stats on the way out. Thats how i think he sees it.