but there's a difference between being pessimistic, and pulling the 'why bother watching', 'fire everyone and start from scratch' crowd. They're no better than the overly optimistic guys who post predictions about gaudy numbers you know we're likely never to see anyone achieve.
However fake fans often brand themselves as pessimistic in order to simultaneously justifying not giving a shit and maintaining their status as a "fan." This skews the numbers.
So if you have a real fan who's an optimist and a real one who's a pessimist, they are both equally fans in my opinion. But unfortunately the pessimists are often times incorrectly lumped in with people who drop "this team sucks, I'm done," almost boastfully, so they don't have to watch something they didn't really care about to begin with.
That being said.. pessimistic fans are a drag. I prefer not to associate them. They're even more obnoxious than the "the team can do no wrong crowd."
I'd say the best types of fans would be the ones who are actually knowledgeable. Optimism or negativity doesn't bother me if it's rooted in an opinion based on logic and understanding. It does bother me when it's based on hysterics and gross overreaction.
I love the Giants and haven't missed a game (regular and pre-season) since around 1995.
But daily life kinda sucks sometimes, and the Giants are to me an escape from the grind. I kick back for 3 hours and what my boss said to me on Friday is insignificant.
When I was younger I used to let the games ruin my day, week, month, and fall. 2007 and 2011 plus general maturity have changed that.
I now allow myself 30 minutes to be in that mindset following a loss. Then I click back to reality and move on.
The good thing about sports is there is always next game and next season.
The thing that does piss me off on here is the way some people treat and act towards people who have accomplished things that very very few ever accomplish and who have track records far better than 90% of anyone who ever puts on a jersey or a suit. The moments that these professionals have given all of us are worth more than anything else sports can ever offer.
Eli Sucks? Oh great. Go ask 30 of the 32 Franchises in the NFL if they would have at some point since 2004 taken him as their starter with giddy excitement. He's not his brother, Joe Montana and John Elway rolled into one, but he's pretty good, in a league with a lot of QB's who never achieve pretty good. He also will be a hall of famer. A HALL OF FAME QB. Who says "Bro I hate my Hall of Fame QB".
Reese Sucks? TWO Super Bowl rings says otherwise. If he really was so horrible there is no way he accomplishes that. Blah Blah Accorsi handed it to him. Oh really? Steve Smith and Ahmad Bradshaw and Kevin Boss didn't do ANYTHING in 2007 right? Accorsi drafted them?
And don't get me started on Coughlin. Giants fans should be kissing that mans feet every day not posting garbage about "Can we get Jim Harbaugh". JIM HARBAUGH????
Look, before you even think it you can't completely let the past dictate your future. I'm not advocating that. Today's NFL is a rapidly changing league and you need to adjust as you go. BUT, sometimes it is important to remember that Coughlin didn't forget to coach after 2011, Eli didn't forget how to win a title after 2011, and Reese didn't forget how to draft good players. The reality is the flux of the TEAM changes, and it's easy to scapegoat the top 3 prime targets, Eli, Coughlin and Reese. We're smarter than bandwagon Cowboys and Eagles fans we should rise above that.
What is the purpose of following sport, of being a fan?
Entertainment.
STRESS IS NOT ENTERTAINING.
When your team goes 5-0 in the preseason and you do NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN, you are NOT being entertained, and you sure as hell aren't adding to my entertainment. You are annoying the shit out of me with "TRADE ELI" after a week 1 loss.
At this point - 3-4, season in deep shit - yeah, I can deal with pessimism now, because losing isn't entertaining.
As an entertainment product, the Giants have put out in spades since the day Rob Carpenter first donned Giant blue. I simply have a major problem with people who can't appreciate how good we have it. Yes, it may be coming to a close for Coughlin, but does it have to be with fucking pitchforks and torches? Can we have a little class?
Maybe optimism/pessimism is the wrong way to look at it. It seems to me that a lot of fans don't actually support the team. I get the post-loss disappointment, but the rants against the players are over the top. And I hate to hear the boos at the stadium (on TV; I'm not local and don't go to games). Not *during* the game. Very little gratitude for some never-forget moments during the Coughlin/Eli era.
One thing I've got to say about New Englanders--and I don't particularly like the typical gloating, smug New England fans--they love their teams. Win or lose. I feel like NY fans could learn something from them.
If the question is are they better for the team then I seriously doubt they matter at all other than at the games where I'm sure the players would be happier to hear them cheering for them as opposed to ragging on them.
If the team management was stupid enough to act based on the rants and raves of the pessimistic fans, and thank God they are not, than of coarse the optimistic fans would be better because the pessimistic fans would want to fire everybody and just start over not realizing how much of a set back that would be.
I also agree with those that say the pessimistic posts are annoying and absolutely childish. And it IS indeed childish to expect your team to win all the time, make the playoffs every year and to not allow for a string of bad years in a league designed to produce parity playing a game that can be won or lost on the heels of just a few player mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes every now and then, even us fans.
RE: Extreme devotion to a pro sports team is for kids.
Once you're a grown man (or woman), it's hard to justify pro sports being much more than passing entertainment (unless you're employed in pro sports).
Couldn't agree more. 10 years ago I'd be glued to the TV steaming mad at the Giants for every little thing. Now its more like a hobby. The difference is my dedication and knowledge remains unchanged, its just not a huge part of my life anymore.
yup.
Why get worked up and upset over something I have zero ability to control?
So if you have a real fan who's an optimist and a real one who's a pessimist, they are both equally fans in my opinion. But unfortunately the pessimists are often times incorrectly lumped in with people who drop "this team sucks, I'm done," almost boastfully, so they don't have to watch something they didn't really care about to begin with.
That being said.. pessimistic fans are a drag. I prefer not to associate them. They're even more obnoxious than the "the team can do no wrong crowd."
I'd say the best types of fans would be the ones who are actually knowledgeable. Optimism or negativity doesn't bother me if it's rooted in an opinion based on logic and understanding. It does bother me when it's based on hysterics and gross overreaction.
I love the Giants and haven't missed a game (regular and pre-season) since around 1995.
But daily life kinda sucks sometimes, and the Giants are to me an escape from the grind. I kick back for 3 hours and what my boss said to me on Friday is insignificant.
When I was younger I used to let the games ruin my day, week, month, and fall. 2007 and 2011 plus general maturity have changed that.
I now allow myself 30 minutes to be in that mindset following a loss. Then I click back to reality and move on.
The good thing about sports is there is always next game and next season.
The thing that does piss me off on here is the way some people treat and act towards people who have accomplished things that very very few ever accomplish and who have track records far better than 90% of anyone who ever puts on a jersey or a suit. The moments that these professionals have given all of us are worth more than anything else sports can ever offer.
Eli Sucks? Oh great. Go ask 30 of the 32 Franchises in the NFL if they would have at some point since 2004 taken him as their starter with giddy excitement. He's not his brother, Joe Montana and John Elway rolled into one, but he's pretty good, in a league with a lot of QB's who never achieve pretty good. He also will be a hall of famer. A HALL OF FAME QB. Who says "Bro I hate my Hall of Fame QB".
Reese Sucks? TWO Super Bowl rings says otherwise. If he really was so horrible there is no way he accomplishes that. Blah Blah Accorsi handed it to him. Oh really? Steve Smith and Ahmad Bradshaw and Kevin Boss didn't do ANYTHING in 2007 right? Accorsi drafted them?
And don't get me started on Coughlin. Giants fans should be kissing that mans feet every day not posting garbage about "Can we get Jim Harbaugh". JIM HARBAUGH????
Look, before you even think it you can't completely let the past dictate your future. I'm not advocating that. Today's NFL is a rapidly changing league and you need to adjust as you go. BUT, sometimes it is important to remember that Coughlin didn't forget to coach after 2011, Eli didn't forget how to win a title after 2011, and Reese didn't forget how to draft good players. The reality is the flux of the TEAM changes, and it's easy to scapegoat the top 3 prime targets, Eli, Coughlin and Reese. We're smarter than bandwagon Cowboys and Eagles fans we should rise above that.
Entertainment.
STRESS IS NOT ENTERTAINING.
When your team goes 5-0 in the preseason and you do NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN, you are NOT being entertained, and you sure as hell aren't adding to my entertainment. You are annoying the shit out of me with "TRADE ELI" after a week 1 loss.
At this point - 3-4, season in deep shit - yeah, I can deal with pessimism now, because losing isn't entertaining.
As an entertainment product, the Giants have put out in spades since the day Rob Carpenter first donned Giant blue. I simply have a major problem with people who can't appreciate how good we have it. Yes, it may be coming to a close for Coughlin, but does it have to be with fucking pitchforks and torches? Can we have a little class?
One thing I've got to say about New Englanders--and I don't particularly like the typical gloating, smug New England fans--they love their teams. Win or lose. I feel like NY fans could learn something from them.
If the team management was stupid enough to act based on the rants and raves of the pessimistic fans, and thank God they are not, than of coarse the optimistic fans would be better because the pessimistic fans would want to fire everybody and just start over not realizing how much of a set back that would be.
I also agree with those that say the pessimistic posts are annoying and absolutely childish. And it IS indeed childish to expect your team to win all the time, make the playoffs every year and to not allow for a string of bad years in a league designed to produce parity playing a game that can be won or lost on the heels of just a few player mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes every now and then, even us fans.
Couldn't agree more. 10 years ago I'd be glued to the TV steaming mad at the Giants for every little thing. Now its more like a hobby. The difference is my dedication and knowledge remains unchanged, its just not a huge part of my life anymore.
2) Avoids making complete ass of self, either at games or elsewhere while identifiable as a supporter of the team.
That's about it. As for loyalty, optimism, pessimism, and all the other psychic subtleties of fandom, my view is: to each his own.