A few more sacks did not come in 2012 so they say he has an issue converting pressure into sacks. That is a ridiculous conclusion.
He averages half a sack a game over his career.
If he was among the best at generating pressure but among the worst for sack totals what kind of conclusion would you expect people to draw?
First of all, who determines what constitutes "pressure"? Seems like a pretty wide gray area. Sacks may be overrated, but they're ironclad. We're not talking about a small sample size here - over the course of the past 34 games, he has 12 sacks. If he's generating so much pressure, why does it so infrequently turn into a loss for the other team?
Secondly, I think you're pretty well overrating his game last Sunday. He did fine work against the run, but as usual his pass rush was sporadic. "Domination" is what Connor Barwin (goddamn, I still can't believe that guy ruined us) did to Justin Pugh.
Just to see if we have a real player there. We know he is not now, and never has been a super star on the right side. let's find out what he can do going against slower right tackles. It may just turn him into a perennial pro-bowler.
hard decisions have to be made next year....our drafts are not filling spots as quickly as players are aging, or getting injured....
It's time for these hard decisions.....The front office thought we were just a few players away.....by the end of the season will they still feel the same way?
There is no way the Giants will offer Rolle, in the neighborhood of 7M.....so how much of a paycut will he accept? What is his ceiling on the open market? Are there safeties to be had out there for much less?
Yes Rolle is a solid safety....we have no others at this point in time.....but Rolle is not worth 7M next year......JPP, Rolle, Thurmond, S. Brown, JW, Paysinger, Hyno, Demps, JJ, Brewer, Patterson, C. Brown, Jerry, Bowman,
Fells, Donnell, just to name a few, are free agents next year.....at the end of the season, who do you keep, and at what price? In some cases, if they go out on the open market, that decision is out of your hands.....yes, that list has a lot of guys that can be easily replaced, but how good will the replacements be?
But more importantly, what direction, is this team going? A rebuild or another band aid season?
Every team tracks QB pressure for their players. The numbers I used were from PFF. But every team tracks it. Consistent QB pressure is more important than sacks.
One thing that I know is inaccurate with stats is TFL. I have tracked this for JPP. His listed TFL stats are lower than the actual number.
I think Greg has had the view I agree with most here
I have been one touting JPP's play this year because frankly I think it is very good. But, I point to it mostly to those who say he is done simply because of the sack numbers. That said, sacks are not to be thrown out either.
The bottom line is, I think he is a very good DE who is excellent against the run. But, after more than a few seasons in the league he hasn't seemed to learned and adapted enough to be considered an elite DE. that is mostly his inability to consistently get to the QB.
Ideally, the giants are able to keep him at a very reasonable price. I would be fine with this. However, I think he is going to demand top 5 money, like those listed earlier in this thread. I think someone looking to add 1 piece to a young and already talented D will pay him in that neighborhood. However, I don't think that team should be the Giants with so much money already committed to Manning and who can easily be extended to create cap space. The problem is without JPP this D will be far worse. I'd certainly like to concentrate on other areas in the draft that are bigger needs.
What the game on short cuts again and watch every snap. He kicked Smith's ass. In the 2nd half he was consistently the only Giant DL playing on the Dallas side of the LOS.
His last series was exceptional. He made 3 sick plays vs the run. One TFL, 2 more hits in the backfeild on running plats. One of them Murray picked up a half a yard. These were all first down plays. He put us in 2nd and longs. 2 of the runs were to the other side. Watch it again. He goes past Smith like he was Brandon Myers.
On the slant to Bryant on the last series he made a strong inside rush and then bounced outside. Smith held him behind the shoulders and threw him to the ground. It should have been a hold.
The same thing happened on the 2nd Escobar TD. He pulled away from Smith who grabbed him behind the shoulder and threw him down.
He saved a TD on the hit to Romo when Bryant beat Prince.
said they talked to him during the game about moving him around more. They did it on a few plays. He didn't want to move because he was kicking Smith's ass (and he has done it in the past).
The same is true For Trent Williams in WAS. He's a top OT, right? JPP kicks that guys ass every game. He plays the game on the WAS side all day long.
Wasn't he injured in 2013 (and part of 2012)? Yes he was but you insist (like many here) of throwing out sack numbers to evaluate the guy we have right now and the value he will bring over the next several years?
The half a sack over a 4 year career when 1.5 years he was injured? That's how you want to evaluate the player going forward?
I'm looking at what he has done when healthy and it's exceptional. And he's doing it again right now. He's 25. If he's healthy the Giants should give him very big money.
The half a sack over a 4 year career when 1.5 years he was injured? That's how you want to evaluate the player going forward?
I'm looking at what he has done when healthy and it's exceptional. And he's doing it again right now. He's 25. If he's healthy the Giants should give him very big money.
You are throwing out a period where he played hurt because it doesn't fit your narrative. Most players play hurt and are rarely if ever 100%. So in this year in 7 games (healthy as he will ever be) he has 3.5 sacks and has disappeared for the first half of the Falcons game, the entire Eagles game and his pass rush IMO has been sporadic in the other games.
I am open to being wrong on the amount of pressure he has been putting this year but I still don't see a player worth a 100 million dollar contract.
hard decisions have to be made next year....our drafts are not filling spots as quickly as players are aging, or getting injured....
It's time for these hard decisions.....The front office thought we were just a few players away.....by the end of the season will they still feel the same way?
There is no way the Giants will offer Rolle, in the neighborhood of 7M.....so how much of a paycut will he accept? What is his ceiling on the open market? Are there safeties to be had out there for much less?
Yes Rolle is a solid safety....we have no others at this point in time.....but Rolle is not worth 7M next year......JPP, Rolle, Thurmond, S. Brown, JW, Paysinger, Hyno, Demps, JJ, Brewer, Patterson, C. Brown, Jerry, Bowman,
Fells, Donnell, just to name a few, are free agents next year.....at the end of the season, who do you keep, and at what price? In some cases, if they go out on the open market, that decision is out of your hands.....yes, that list has a lot of guys that can be easily replaced, but how good will the replacements be?
But more importantly, what direction, is this team going? A rebuild or another band aid season?
I think Rolle is the most important FA on this list. He's the heart and soul of the defense. And he has started every single game for the Giants since 2010, and rarely missed time in his career for injuries, so he's been durable as well.
Still, having said all that, he'll be 32 in December, so the issue to me isn't so much the annual dollar amount as the length of the contract.
If the Giants do not re-sign JPP, than they should also trade Eli Manning for picks, begin the Nassib era and switch to a 3-4 defense.
The Giants are going to have more money than they did last year to spend in FA and that's before Eli Manning should sign an extension to lower his 2015 cap number.
JPP is dominant against the run. He had two sacks this past Sunday against what many call the best OL in football. What more do people want from this guy?
Yeah, he doesn't have the gaudy sack numbers. But he is one of the best 4-3 defensive ends in football.
With a rising cap, it's inexcusable to be afraid to pay this guy $10 mil plus a year.
If the Giants do not re-sign JPP, than they should also trade Eli Manning for picks, begin the Nassib era and switch to a 3-4 defense.
The Giants are going to have more money than they did last year to spend in FA and that's before Eli Manning should sign an extension to lower his 2015 cap number.
JPP is dominant against the run. He had two sacks this past Sunday against what many call the best OL in football. What more do people want from this guy?
Yeah, he doesn't have the gaudy sack numbers. But he is one of the best 4-3 defensive ends in football.
With a rising cap, it's inexcusable to be afraid to pay this guy $10 mil plus a year.
Some of these guys act like it's their own money. JPP will get paid. They are nuts if they don't.
Right now JPP has Kiwanuka who can be blocked with a TE. Its like having a slow LB going up against a tackle. Kiwanuka couldn't beat a sub that wasn't even playing football last year.
He averages half a sack a game over his career.
If he was among the best at generating pressure but among the worst for sack totals what kind of conclusion would you expect people to draw?
Plus, the constant injuries.
kidding - but, ya never know what the Raiders are thinking.
Secondly, I think you're pretty well overrating his game last Sunday. He did fine work against the run, but as usual his pass rush was sporadic. "Domination" is what Connor Barwin (goddamn, I still can't believe that guy ruined us) did to Justin Pugh.
It's time for these hard decisions.....The front office thought we were just a few players away.....by the end of the season will they still feel the same way?
There is no way the Giants will offer Rolle, in the neighborhood of 7M.....so how much of a paycut will he accept? What is his ceiling on the open market? Are there safeties to be had out there for much less?
Yes Rolle is a solid safety....we have no others at this point in time.....but Rolle is not worth 7M next year......JPP, Rolle, Thurmond, S. Brown, JW, Paysinger, Hyno, Demps, JJ, Brewer, Patterson, C. Brown, Jerry, Bowman,
Fells, Donnell, just to name a few, are free agents next year.....at the end of the season, who do you keep, and at what price? In some cases, if they go out on the open market, that decision is out of your hands.....yes, that list has a lot of guys that can be easily replaced, but how good will the replacements be?
But more importantly, what direction, is this team going? A rebuild or another band aid season?
One thing that I know is inaccurate with stats is TFL. I have tracked this for JPP. His listed TFL stats are lower than the actual number.
The bottom line is, I think he is a very good DE who is excellent against the run. But, after more than a few seasons in the league he hasn't seemed to learned and adapted enough to be considered an elite DE. that is mostly his inability to consistently get to the QB.
Ideally, the giants are able to keep him at a very reasonable price. I would be fine with this. However, I think he is going to demand top 5 money, like those listed earlier in this thread. I think someone looking to add 1 piece to a young and already talented D will pay him in that neighborhood. However, I don't think that team should be the Giants with so much money already committed to Manning and who can easily be extended to create cap space. The problem is without JPP this D will be far worse. I'd certainly like to concentrate on other areas in the draft that are bigger needs.
His last series was exceptional. He made 3 sick plays vs the run. One TFL, 2 more hits in the backfeild on running plats. One of them Murray picked up a half a yard. These were all first down plays. He put us in 2nd and longs. 2 of the runs were to the other side. Watch it again. He goes past Smith like he was Brandon Myers.
On the slant to Bryant on the last series he made a strong inside rush and then bounced outside. Smith held him behind the shoulders and threw him to the ground. It should have been a hold.
The same thing happened on the 2nd Escobar TD. He pulled away from Smith who grabbed him behind the shoulder and threw him down.
He saved a TD on the hit to Romo when Bryant beat Prince.
He had 2 sacks.
What else do you need?
The same is true For Trent Williams in WAS. He's a top OT, right? JPP kicks that guys ass every game. He plays the game on the WAS side all day long.
don't know how you could watch the cowboy game and say that.
I'm looking at what he has done when healthy and it's exceptional. And he's doing it again right now. He's 25. If he's healthy the Giants should give him very big money.
I'm looking at what he has done when healthy and it's exceptional. And he's doing it again right now. He's 25. If he's healthy the Giants should give him very big money.
You are throwing out a period where he played hurt because it doesn't fit your narrative. Most players play hurt and are rarely if ever 100%. So in this year in 7 games (healthy as he will ever be) he has 3.5 sacks and has disappeared for the first half of the Falcons game, the entire Eagles game and his pass rush IMO has been sporadic in the other games.
I am open to being wrong on the amount of pressure he has been putting this year but I still don't see a player worth a 100 million dollar contract.
It's time for these hard decisions.....The front office thought we were just a few players away.....by the end of the season will they still feel the same way?
There is no way the Giants will offer Rolle, in the neighborhood of 7M.....so how much of a paycut will he accept? What is his ceiling on the open market? Are there safeties to be had out there for much less?
Yes Rolle is a solid safety....we have no others at this point in time.....but Rolle is not worth 7M next year......JPP, Rolle, Thurmond, S. Brown, JW, Paysinger, Hyno, Demps, JJ, Brewer, Patterson, C. Brown, Jerry, Bowman,
Fells, Donnell, just to name a few, are free agents next year.....at the end of the season, who do you keep, and at what price? In some cases, if they go out on the open market, that decision is out of your hands.....yes, that list has a lot of guys that can be easily replaced, but how good will the replacements be?
But more importantly, what direction, is this team going? A rebuild or another band aid season?
I think Rolle is the most important FA on this list. He's the heart and soul of the defense. And he has started every single game for the Giants since 2010, and rarely missed time in his career for injuries, so he's been durable as well.
Still, having said all that, he'll be 32 in December, so the issue to me isn't so much the annual dollar amount as the length of the contract.
don't know how you could watch the cowboy game and say that.
Yes, he actually used a few other moves against Dallas. It's a very rare occurance.
The Giants are going to have more money than they did last year to spend in FA and that's before Eli Manning should sign an extension to lower his 2015 cap number.
JPP is dominant against the run. He had two sacks this past Sunday against what many call the best OL in football. What more do people want from this guy?
Yeah, he doesn't have the gaudy sack numbers. But he is one of the best 4-3 defensive ends in football.
With a rising cap, it's inexcusable to be afraid to pay this guy $10 mil plus a year.
The Giants are going to have more money than they did last year to spend in FA and that's before Eli Manning should sign an extension to lower his 2015 cap number.
JPP is dominant against the run. He had two sacks this past Sunday against what many call the best OL in football. What more do people want from this guy?
Yeah, he doesn't have the gaudy sack numbers. But he is one of the best 4-3 defensive ends in football.
With a rising cap, it's inexcusable to be afraid to pay this guy $10 mil plus a year.
Huh? The guy is 25 years old. What are you looking for teenage pass rusher?
Some people....