Look at Kenny Phillips. He played well enough his last year here, but the truth was that he probably never practiced away from the media and everyone knew that his knee was done.
Nicks had that weird compartmentalization issue with his leg. And he was dogged by knee issues in successive years.
I've watched him this year, dont know if Eric has (unlikely). Nicks when he sees the field has zero downfield speed, no burst. It's like he totally lost third gear.
Look at Kenny Phillips. He played well enough his last year here, but the truth was that he probably never practiced away from the media and everyone knew that his knee was done.
Nicks had that weird compartmentalization issue with his leg. And he was dogged by knee issues in successive years.
I've watched him this year, dont know if Eric has (unlikely). Nicks when he sees the field has zero downfield speed, no burst. It's like he totally lost third gear.
I don't see how anyone not intimately aware of Nicks himself can say with authority that it is purely physical or purely mental or a combination of the two.
He reputedly showed up to the Colts' preseason in poor shape and was criticized publicly by their coaches Maybe he just refuses to put in the effort to rehab himself back to 2011 shape?
I recall a video of TC exhorting Nicks during his rookie training camp to produce every game like his unreal Meinike bowl performance for North Carolina. Add that to reports that Nicks ballooned 10-15 lbs in just a few weeks after he pulled a hammy at the combine. And then rumors that Nicks was considered a locker room cancer with the Giants - which may have been simply FO PR to prep fans that he was not getting any resigning offer.
There's a fascinating story maybe behind Nicks' decline but I guess no one is going to dig it up until maybe Nicks himself, short of money, decides to write a kiss and tell autobiography.
Nicks has been saddled with a variety of lower leg injuries. The broken foot and knee issues aren't what has caused him the biggest problems. He's still got lingering effects from the compartment syndrome he suffered.
In effect, the pressure builds up in the "compartment", which in this case was Nicks lower leg, and that sustained pressure can result in muscle and nerve damage. The reports I've heard say that Nicks has experienced a loss of sensation at time and that it will be unlikely for him to regain the speed because his legs are more of a chronic condition than an acute one.
It's not like he was paralyzed, which can happen in extreme cases of compartment syndrome, but when a player loses just a little bit of speed, it can make them go from elite to pedestrian very quickly. That's the main issue with Nicks now.
guy was a beast in 2011 and a major reason we hoisted a second SB in 2011. he and bradshaw deserve applause in 12 days.
as far as last years 'effort' - dont condone it but also recognize we had a bad, flawed team last year regardless. dont see honor in 7-9 vs 4-12 bad is bad.
plus its apparent watching him this year that his physical skillset has taken its toll. what some saw as lazy last year may have in fact been decline in talent level.
let it go.
Completely agreed. He really should have held out after 2011 for a fat contract extension.
and started lighting it up, then you'd wonder whether he was holding out and making a 'business decision' here.
From the looks of it, though - the guy's just cooked. He was a great player for us, and sadly another one that seems to have had his career greatly shortened due to injury. I'm also grateful for the time he spent here, and I hope that he can get it together somehow and still be productive in the league.
His status as a great player is a BBI legend. When he is done he will be considered just another mid to good WR(if he isn't already). As I have said in previous posts, and been flamed for it, his stats mirror Earnest Gray from the early 70's. They actually remind of each other too.
His status as a great player is a BBI legend. When he is done he will be considered just another mid to good WR(if he isn't already). As I have said in previous posts, and been flamed for it, his stats mirror Earnest Gray from the early 70's. They actually remind of each other too.
I hate to talk this way, but if you think that Earnest Gray was anywhere near the player that Nicks was, then you have absolutely no clue what you are watching.
RE: Why should there be a lot of posts about a guy
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
I think Peter was referring to the opening post saying that he was surprised there was no posts about Nicks. Sure people can discuss it but I tend to be in that camp too, when a player moves on to a new team, I move on also.
Loved you when you were here, loved what you contributed in our run up to the Super Bowl and in the Super Bowl. What I didn't like was the shot you took at Eli on the way out, okay maybe you were pissed that the Giants didn't make an attempt to keep you. Let's compare how you're doing with the Colts with our 1st. round pick OBJ.
You with that QB Andrew Luck who's really good
7 games, 17 recep, 141 yds, 8.3 ypc, 2 td's.
OBJ with Ole Eli
3 games 10 recept. 106 yrds 10.6 ypc and 3 TD's
OBJ fast as lightning, healthy now and going all out. It's understood that you were hurting and "at times" gave it your all, but it was time, and right to move on!
I miss you for all that you've done for this team, but you've been replaced!
but Nicks was on pace to shatter offensive records here, and put up impressive stats compared to the rest of the NFL as well. Had they remained healthy and together, that trio of Nicks/Cruz/Manningham would have been something to watch, longer term.
That's why I laugh when people say the team's been without talent for years. OK, Reese has his flaws, and the last 2-3 drafts have been a little bare, but the guy has brought some great players here. What's unfortunate is how many of them did not last long enough to make a bigger impact.
Gray sucked. Hands of Stone. And a stupid player to boot.
Loved you when you were here, loved what you contributed in our run up to the Super Bowl and in the Super Bowl. What I didn't like was the shot you took at Eli on the way out, okay maybe you were pissed that the Giants didn't make an attempt to keep you. Let's compare how you're doing with the Colts with our 1st. round pick OBJ.
People overreacted to the quote about being dangerous with other QBs. All he was doing was talking up his new QB/potential new QB and promoting himself as FA.
It wasn't at all shot at Manning, who Nicks went on about being the one to teach him "everything he knew" before the preseason game against the Colts.
Nicks at his best was better than Gray, but Simms once said of Gray,
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
I love how people are too stupid to read the OP and understand that my post was in response to it. Perhaps you should get someone to explain it to you or just stfu yourself.
now AB and Nicks will get theirs...I might just pick up Nicks for Week 9 alone...no doubt Perry Futile will allow it to happen.
This is pretty dumb, Giants track record is pretty good in terms of letting go of players that don't have much left. You don't see that many Giants leave in FA and have big time post Giants careers.
The idea of a "chase blackburn revenge tour' is hysterical
We don't really know what's going on with these guys.
NFL players can have trouble at work for the same reasons anybody else can have trouble at work, from clinical depression to family issues to drug abuse to lack of motivation. Then, on top of that, they can have trouble at work for another thousand reasons that are unique to athletes: chronic injuries, lack of commitment to training, poor relationship with coaches, etc.
I have no idea what's going on with Hakeem Nicks, but I'm sure that the guy I saw at his peak had the highest ceiling of any WR I've seen in my life as a Giants fan I missed Homer Jones but have seen pretty much all of 'em since. Nicks had HOF potential, then it all evaporated. He's not even average now.
Beckham is actually off to a better start than Nicks had as a rookie. IIRC, Nicks had a bunch of big drops in his first games. Beckham looks very polished and poised.
I don't think people realize how much a loss of a little speed or a little elevation brings a very good receiver down to a middling receiver in a short time.
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
It is a broader point, but it is really the part of football that fans overlook. The amount of abuse that bodies take during careers is really astonishing. The amount of post-career surgeries needed to repair previous injuries is staggering. Just because of his compartment syndrome situation, Nicks will probably have severe vascular effects as he ages and will most likely need to be in compression therapy for an extended period of his life.
But it is easy to call it mental and act like he's quit. I actually feel bad for the guy, because he didn't have that seemingly severe injury like Steve smith where it was easy to just understand his decline.
He was a freaking stud in the 2011 playoffs. Thanks for what you did. Your no longer here, I wish you no harm, but one day you will have to answer to yourself, did you pack it in 2013.
Otherwise I hope you become a beast again because you helped me and my fellow fans celebrate a super bowl win.
His status as a great player is a BBI legend. When he is done he will be considered just another mid to good WR(if he isn't already). As I have said in previous posts, and been flamed for it, his stats mirror Earnest Gray from the early 70's. They actually remind of each other too.
This is so stupid. If you watched the games with your eyeballs, you know what a force Nicks was.
And if you want to talk stats, Nicks best year, if I recall correctly, was actually better than Plax's best year (statistically).
Total pipe dream, but how awesome would it be to see Nicks come back on a deal similar to Manningham's, but actually revert to form around age 27-28? I'd love that, I really would.
I don't think people realize how much a loss of a little speed or a little elevation brings a very good receiver down to a middling receiver in a short time.
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
It is a broader point, but it is really the part of football that fans overlook. The amount of abuse that bodies take during careers is really astonishing. The amount of post-career surgeries needed to repair previous injuries is staggering. Just because of his compartment syndrome situation, Nicks will probably have severe vascular effects as he ages and will most likely need to be in compression therapy for an extended period of his life.
But it is easy to call it mental and act like he's quit. I actually feel bad for the guy, because he didn't have that seemingly severe injury like Steve smith where it was easy to just understand his decline.
That definately gives me pause when considering my opinion that he quit...
I don't think people realize how much a loss of a little speed or a little elevation brings a very good receiver down to a middling receiver in a short time.
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
I agree. A slight nagging injury to a receiver can change his performance dramatically.
revenge for what, bringing him back into the NFL when he was a substitute teacher? Extending his career?
Blackburn sure played that Caroline game like he was a spurned lover...all pumped up and everything...and look what happened...didn't they give him the game ball, too? he fucking knew every play we were running...Cofield knew what to look for, too...
there is no evidence to support your theory. And its not right anyway, for example Plax played all of the 07 season with serious physical issues. And was extremely effective. If Nicks was disabled by something as serious as nerve damage, the Giants, if they followed their usual pattern at all, would have sat him out. Consider how conservative they were with Wilson. Also consider what we saw from Nicks all last season on the field.
of evidence based on his play and his lack of speed and explosion alone.
Couple that with the information I know from the training room and it isn't really even a question.
Look, we expect the players to be robots - that simply isn't the case. A guy like rich Seubert overcame incredible odds to return from a horrific injury and play at a high level. Having a WR with leg issues, especially nerve or circulatory related - the odds are equally as long that he will be able to improve.
The general naivete people have regarding injuries is fine until they start disparaging players because they can't distinguish injury from a lack of effort.
during that shoot out where there was close to 1000 yards passing.... Hakeem Nicks started the game because Wayne was injured and was the 10th leading receiver in the game, with 27 yards
I am not discussing the reasons why, just the facts. One very good season, plus one good season, is not a career. Toomer dwarfs anything Nicks has done. Plax had 2 years in his career better than anything Nicks has done,and he also had a long career of very good play. Cruz's 2011 dwarfed anything Nicks has every done. I don't think anyone here would claim Nicks is better than Plax, and frankly Plax isn't going anywhere close to the HOF either. I also don't think Nicks even made a Pro Bowl (but I could be wrong)
Nicks stats compare with Steve Smith. You can say that both could have been very good WR's but they were cut short by injuries. That is fine, however my point is when guys like Earnest Gray and Lionel Manuel can also have comparable stats, then the player is not the powerhouse/All Pro that people are making him out to be (because no one considers those guys elite either).
I watched every game, and rooted for Nicks, but lets not over rate the guy.I wouldn't even put him in the starters of the circa 1980+ Giant teams. Burris, Cruz, Steve Smith, and Toomer all would definitely be ahead of him, and a case could be made for others.
I am not discussing the reasons why, just the facts. One very good season, plus one good season, is not a career. Toomer dwarfs anything Nicks has done. Plax had 2 years in his career better than anything Nicks has done,and he also had a long career of very good play. Cruz's 2011 dwarfed anything Nicks has every done. I don't think anyone here would claim Nicks is better than Plax, and frankly Plax isn't going anywhere close to the HOF either. I also don't think Nicks even made a Pro Bowl (but I could be wrong)
Nicks stats compare with Steve Smith. You can say that both could have been very good WR's but they were cut short by injuries. That is fine, however my point is when guys like Earnest Gray and Lionel Manuel can also have comparable stats, then the player is not the powerhouse/All Pro that people are making him out to be (because no one considers those guys elite either).
I watched every game, and rooted for Nicks, but lets not over rate the guy.I wouldn't even put him in the starters of the circa 1980+ Giant teams. Burris, Cruz, Steve Smith, and Toomer all would definitely be ahead of him, and a case could be made for others.
If Phil Simms heard you say this, I don't think he'd stop laughing in time for next week's games.
Comparing WRs from the 80s to WRs from today barely works
Nicks play had much more to do with injuries than attitude and this year just proves the point. If he was anywhere near the player he used to be he'd be playing far more and producing for the Colts...period. I don't discount that his attitude (ie pisssed off about not getting a contract extension before Cruz) and self interests (ie protecting himself from further damage) played a part in things last year but him "dogging" it on his contract year just made no logical sense at all as it goes against common sense in every way.
there is no other explanation.
Look at Kenny Phillips. He played well enough his last year here, but the truth was that he probably never practiced away from the media and everyone knew that his knee was done.
Nicks had that weird compartmentalization issue with his leg. And he was dogged by knee issues in successive years.
I've watched him this year, dont know if Eric has (unlikely). Nicks when he sees the field has zero downfield speed, no burst. It's like he totally lost third gear.
Quote:
It can't be his body.
there is no other explanation.
Look at Kenny Phillips. He played well enough his last year here, but the truth was that he probably never practiced away from the media and everyone knew that his knee was done.
Nicks had that weird compartmentalization issue with his leg. And he was dogged by knee issues in successive years.
I've watched him this year, dont know if Eric has (unlikely). Nicks when he sees the field has zero downfield speed, no burst. It's like he totally lost third gear.
I don't see how anyone not intimately aware of Nicks himself can say with authority that it is purely physical or purely mental or a combination of the two.
He reputedly showed up to the Colts' preseason in poor shape and was criticized publicly by their coaches Maybe he just refuses to put in the effort to rehab himself back to 2011 shape?
I recall a video of TC exhorting Nicks during his rookie training camp to produce every game like his unreal Meinike bowl performance for North Carolina. Add that to reports that Nicks ballooned 10-15 lbs in just a few weeks after he pulled a hammy at the combine. And then rumors that Nicks was considered a locker room cancer with the Giants - which may have been simply FO PR to prep fans that he was not getting any resigning offer.
There's a fascinating story maybe behind Nicks' decline but I guess no one is going to dig it up until maybe Nicks himself, short of money, decides to write a kiss and tell autobiography.
In effect, the pressure builds up in the "compartment", which in this case was Nicks lower leg, and that sustained pressure can result in muscle and nerve damage. The reports I've heard say that Nicks has experienced a loss of sensation at time and that it will be unlikely for him to regain the speed because his legs are more of a chronic condition than an acute one.
It's not like he was paralyzed, which can happen in extreme cases of compartment syndrome, but when a player loses just a little bit of speed, it can make them go from elite to pedestrian very quickly. That's the main issue with Nicks now.
as far as last years 'effort' - dont condone it but also recognize we had a bad, flawed team last year regardless. dont see honor in 7-9 vs 4-12 bad is bad.
plus its apparent watching him this year that his physical skillset has taken its toll. what some saw as lazy last year may have in fact been decline in talent level.
let it go.
Completely agreed. He really should have held out after 2011 for a fat contract extension.
He can still snag the ball with those big mitts but the rest of his skills have severely diminished.
It's kinda sad to watch.
From the looks of it, though - the guy's just cooked. He was a great player for us, and sadly another one that seems to have had his career greatly shortened due to injury. I'm also grateful for the time he spent here, and I hope that he can get it together somehow and still be productive in the league.
I hate to talk this way, but if you think that Earnest Gray was anywhere near the player that Nicks was, then you have absolutely no clue what you are watching.
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
He was both actually. 2nd round pick in 1979, same draft as Phil Simms
Quote:
who is no longer with the team?
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
You with that QB Andrew Luck who's really good
7 games, 17 recep, 141 yds, 8.3 ypc, 2 td's.
OBJ with Ole Eli
3 games 10 recept. 106 yrds 10.6 ypc and 3 TD's
OBJ fast as lightning, healthy now and going all out. It's understood that you were hurting and "at times" gave it your all, but it was time, and right to move on!
I miss you for all that you've done for this team, but you've been replaced!
That's why I laugh when people say the team's been without talent for years. OK, Reese has his flaws, and the last 2-3 drafts have been a little bare, but the guy has brought some great players here. What's unfortunate is how many of them did not last long enough to make a bigger impact.
The fact that no one wanted to sign Nicks besides Indy speaks volumes about what the rest of the NFL thinks of him.
People overreacted to the quote about being dangerous with other QBs. All he was doing was talking up his new QB/potential new QB and promoting himself as FA.
It wasn't at all shot at Manning, who Nicks went on about being the one to teach him "everything he knew" before the preseason game against the Colts.
Quote:
who is no longer with the team?
It's called a discussion board for a reason. Don't like the discussion, stfu. I love how everyone questions the validity of a topic. If you don't like it, ignore it.
I love how people are too stupid to read the OP and understand that my post was in response to it. Perhaps you should get someone to explain it to you or just stfu yourself.
The Giants are going 9-0 the rest of the way and are headed to the playoffs!
Barry Cofield got his...
Chase Blackburn got his...
Pope got his day...
now AB and Nicks will get theirs...I might just pick up Nicks for Week 9 alone...no doubt Perry Futile will allow it to happen.
This is pretty dumb, Giants track record is pretty good in terms of letting go of players that don't have much left. You don't see that many Giants leave in FA and have big time post Giants careers.
NFL players can have trouble at work for the same reasons anybody else can have trouble at work, from clinical depression to family issues to drug abuse to lack of motivation. Then, on top of that, they can have trouble at work for another thousand reasons that are unique to athletes: chronic injuries, lack of commitment to training, poor relationship with coaches, etc.
I have no idea what's going on with Hakeem Nicks, but I'm sure that the guy I saw at his peak had the highest ceiling of any WR I've seen in my life as a Giants fan I missed Homer Jones but have seen pretty much all of 'em since. Nicks had HOF potential, then it all evaporated. He's not even average now.
Beckham is actually off to a better start than Nicks had as a rookie. IIRC, Nicks had a bunch of big drops in his first games. Beckham looks very polished and poised.
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
It is a broader point, but it is really the part of football that fans overlook. The amount of abuse that bodies take during careers is really astonishing. The amount of post-career surgeries needed to repair previous injuries is staggering. Just because of his compartment syndrome situation, Nicks will probably have severe vascular effects as he ages and will most likely need to be in compression therapy for an extended period of his life.
But it is easy to call it mental and act like he's quit. I actually feel bad for the guy, because he didn't have that seemingly severe injury like Steve smith where it was easy to just understand his decline.
Otherwise I hope you become a beast again because you helped me and my fellow fans celebrate a super bowl win.
This is so stupid. If you watched the games with your eyeballs, you know what a force Nicks was.
And if you want to talk stats, Nicks best year, if I recall correctly, was actually better than Plax's best year (statistically).
That's the most baffling part. He's 26.
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
It is a broader point, but it is really the part of football that fans overlook. The amount of abuse that bodies take during careers is really astonishing. The amount of post-career surgeries needed to repair previous injuries is staggering. Just because of his compartment syndrome situation, Nicks will probably have severe vascular effects as he ages and will most likely need to be in compression therapy for an extended period of his life.
But it is easy to call it mental and act like he's quit. I actually feel bad for the guy, because he didn't have that seemingly severe injury like Steve smith where it was easy to just understand his decline.
That definately gives me pause when considering my opinion that he quit...
It isn't mind over body when somebody has nerve damage in the tools they need to use to succeed.
I agree. A slight nagging injury to a receiver can change his performance dramatically.
Blackburn sure played that Caroline game like he was a spurned lover...all pumped up and everything...and look what happened...didn't they give him the game ball, too? he fucking knew every play we were running...Cofield knew what to look for, too...
Couple that with the information I know from the training room and it isn't really even a question.
Look, we expect the players to be robots - that simply isn't the case. A guy like rich Seubert overcame incredible odds to return from a horrific injury and play at a high level. Having a WR with leg issues, especially nerve or circulatory related - the odds are equally as long that he will be able to improve.
The general naivete people have regarding injuries is fine until they start disparaging players because they can't distinguish injury from a lack of effort.
yikes
On the other hand, last year he didn't seem to give full effort all the time.
Nicks stats compare with Steve Smith. You can say that both could have been very good WR's but they were cut short by injuries. That is fine, however my point is when guys like Earnest Gray and Lionel Manuel can also have comparable stats, then the player is not the powerhouse/All Pro that people are making him out to be (because no one considers those guys elite either).
I watched every game, and rooted for Nicks, but lets not over rate the guy.I wouldn't even put him in the starters of the circa 1980+ Giant teams. Burris, Cruz, Steve Smith, and Toomer all would definitely be ahead of him, and a case could be made for others.
Nicks stats compare with Steve Smith. You can say that both could have been very good WR's but they were cut short by injuries. That is fine, however my point is when guys like Earnest Gray and Lionel Manuel can also have comparable stats, then the player is not the powerhouse/All Pro that people are making him out to be (because no one considers those guys elite either).
I watched every game, and rooted for Nicks, but lets not over rate the guy.I wouldn't even put him in the starters of the circa 1980+ Giant teams. Burris, Cruz, Steve Smith, and Toomer all would definitely be ahead of him, and a case could be made for others.
If Phil Simms heard you say this, I don't think he'd stop laughing in time for next week's games.