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We lead in Interceptions? Huh...

shuckinfit : 10/23/2014 1:54 am
NFL.com said this is true...
Link - ( New Window )
depending upon circumstance  
blakjedi : 10/23/2014 2:17 am : link
and offensive philosophy, each int should lead to an offensive production of between 3 and 7 points. Thats 33 to 77 extra points.
All this means nothing...  
silverfox : 10/23/2014 8:06 am : link
...if you don't convert to points.
And yet we still stink  
BlueHurricane : 10/23/2014 8:27 am : link
Anyone remember Buffalo used to get when Perry was there?
They sucked too.
*How many Buffalo used to get  
BlueHurricane : 10/23/2014 8:27 am : link
.
I suspect the Kirk Cousins Effect  
Greg from LI : 10/23/2014 8:31 am : link
.
We've been a top 5 defense in turnovers forced...  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 8:31 am : link
...every year PF has been here besides last year, we were tied for 8th. (We're tied for 4th right now)
RE: I suspect the Kirk Cousins Effect  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 8:37 am : link
In comment 11936566 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


I call it playing the shitty QBs effect (Cousins, Fitzpatrick).

We have played 4 good QBs this year:
Stafford - 22/32 346 yards 3 total TDs
Ryan - 29-45 316 yards 1 TD/1 INT
Foles - 21-34 248 yards 2 TDs/2 INTs
Romo - 17-23 279 yards 3 TDs/1 INT

Total

89-134 (66%) for 1,189 yards 9 TDs and 4 INTs

Theme of the Fewell era.
This league tilts heavily towards offense...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 8:38 am : link
The days of dominant defense is gone. All the teams with a good qb and a good offensive line you cannot blitz anymore. Passing is king. You have to play for turn overs on defense. You have to hope your dl is good enough to stop the run and put pressure on the qb. You have to hope your secondary can get the T.O. now with the fact that you can't touch a receiver you will see more zones and quick pressure in the hope of creating ints and getting the offense more touches.
RE: RE: I suspect the Kirk Cousins Effect  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 8:44 am : link
In comment 11936574 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11936566 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



I call it playing the shitty QBs effect (Cousins, Fitzpatrick).

We have played 4 good QBs this year:
Stafford - 22/32 346 yards 3 total TDs
Ryan - 29-45 316 yards 1 TD/1 INT
Foles - 21-34 248 yards 2 TDs/2 INTs
Romo - 17-23 279 yards 3 TDs/1 INT

Total

89-134 (66%) for 1,189 yards 9 TDs and 4 INTs

Theme of the Fewell era.


What's so impressive about Ryan or Foles' stat lines in those games? Those are basically average games for them. And if Rolle tackles Antoine Smith like he should have, you can shave about 60 yards off Ryan's total.

Good QB's get theirs against everyone.

Peyton just went 22-26 for 318 and 4 scores against Fangio's defense. I guess he can't coach.

See how easy this game is?
Oh, and Peyton did that in 3 quarters, BTW...  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 8:45 am : link
It was such an ass kicking that they put their backup in for the 4th. Peyton could have thrown for about 500 yards and 6 TD's that night if he wanted to.
RE: All this means nothing...  
okiegiant : 10/23/2014 9:14 am : link
In comment 11936546 silverfox said:
Quote:
...if you don't convert to points.


To lazy to look this up but I would guess a lot of these led to points...with the obvious exception of Foles.

I know for sure Romo's did(on the very next play a TD to Fells)and I assume most of the others did too.

RE: RE: RE: I suspect the Kirk Cousins Effect  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:37 am : link
In comment 11936586 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11936574 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 11936566 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



I call it playing the shitty QBs effect (Cousins, Fitzpatrick).

We have played 4 good QBs this year:
Stafford - 22/32 346 yards 3 total TDs
Ryan - 29-45 316 yards 1 TD/1 INT
Foles - 21-34 248 yards 2 TDs/2 INTs
Romo - 17-23 279 yards 3 TDs/1 INT

Total

89-134 (66%) for 1,189 yards 9 TDs and 4 INTs

Theme of the Fewell era.



What's so impressive about Ryan or Foles' stat lines in those games? Those are basically average games for them. And if Rolle tackles Antoine Smith like he should have, you can shave about 60 yards off Ryan's total.

Good QB's get theirs against everyone.

Peyton just went 22-26 for 318 and 4 scores against Fangio's defense. I guess he can't coach.

See how easy this game is?


Foles put up 27 points in 3 quarters against us, and basically stopped throwing at the end of half. And if we are going to hold up that if a guy made this tackle or that play, we are just making more excuses. Philly did whatever they wanted to against us, so did Detroit, so did Dallas, and Ryan for at least a half. But when it came to the Fitzpatricks (without his RB), Cousins, and Drew Stanton - our defense looked legit.

And I dont know why you are bringing up the SF defensive coordinator against Peyton when he is missing three 1st team all- pro players at 3 important positions. But hey, if we need to defend Fewell more, lets use a crippled defense against the league's best player. Stafford has had two good games all year. Us and the Jets. Nothing to hold our hat on.
Foles had  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:41 am : link
177 yards at half against us when it was already 20-0. And went 3-3 for 42 yards on the 95 yard TD drive after Cruz got hurt.

Lets not act we shut him down. And you are right good QBs do get theirs. They just get theirs plus some against us.
dep...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 9:41 am : link
I think Fewell wishes he had 3 all pro players on his D.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 9:42 am : link
We're not missing anyone at important positions?

We're down half our DB's, we've basically never had our starting MIKE (he's been a liability when he's played and probably won't again this year) we just lost a starting DT, etc.

We can throw a DC with the most "exotic" blitzes on the planet on our sidelines right now, this defense isn't going to be much better.

Tell me why you think Seattles defense went from elite and intimidating to.. good... in just 1 year with the same DC. What's the constant and what's the variable?
RE: dep...  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:42 am : link
In comment 11936663 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
I think Fewell wishes he had 3 all pro players on his D.


Oh the lack of talent thing again.... thats right. Well I believe JPP/Rolle are all-pro type players. And DRC is a pretty decent player himself.
RE: Foles had  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 9:44 am : link
In comment 11936662 dep026 said:
Quote:
177 yards at half against us when it was already 20-0. And went 3-3 for 42 yards on the 95 yard TD drive after Cruz got hurt.

Lets not act we shut him down. And you are right good QBs do get theirs. They just get theirs plus some against us.


No, we didn't shut him down. How many teams these past 2 years have?

When you lay an egg on offense, can't put anything together and keep giving the ball right back to the Eagles, what do you think is going to happen.

This has a lot to do with why people think Dallas has a good defense. Their offense is keeping them off the field every week.
That's the Perry Fewell  
AnishPatel : 10/23/2014 9:44 am : link
defense. Attack the QB with the front 4 and create turnovers. It's a boom or bust defense, when it booms, we can sacks, and can ints. So I am not surprised we lead in Ints. Turnovers is an important element which has been associated with his scheme.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:48 am : link
In comment 11936664 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We're not missing anyone at important positions?

We're down half our DB's, we've basically never had our starting MIKE (he's been a liability when he's played and probably won't again this year) we just lost a starting DT, etc.

We can throw a DC with the most "exotic" blitzes on the planet on our sidelines right now, this defense isn't going to be much better.

Tell me why you think Seattles defense went from elite and intimidating to.. good... in just 1 year with the same DC. What's the constant and what's the variable?


We lost our nickel corner(s). And last time I checked that isnt crippling. DRC has been banged up, but has played in the majority of the games. I dont wnat to hear the excuses for Beason. We didnt have him in training camp, preseason, and the majority of this season. And to be honest, he is only a fair player at this point anyways. And we lost Jenkins for a total of 1 half.

If we are going to compare those injuries to that of Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, and Navarow Bowman - well thats just plain silly.

We are 24th in YPG on defense, 20th in PPG - and thats with playing 3 out of 7 games against three really bad QBs. Every team has injuries. Every team guys banged up. We consistently get shit on by good to great QBs. I have done this stat every year for 3 years now, and all I get is excuses why its not Fewell's fault.

Can we just all agree that he is at best an average coordinator (lets be honest, he really isnt average) and the defense has underperformed since 2012 against QBs who are actually good?
dep...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 9:49 am : link
Jpp takes plays off and has no one on the other side. Roll plays out of position so often as injuries kills depth, that he can't be used to his potential. Drc is hurt. We have no LB corps in how many years? Talent is there but it's not reliable on this team. Injuries and the lack of someone stepping up on the DL, is the root of the problems that you see. The scheme is not a bad one, when everyone is healthy we tend to look pretty dam good on defense.
RE: dep...  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:50 am : link
In comment 11936674 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
Jpp takes plays off and has no one on the other side. Roll plays out of position so often as injuries kills depth, that he can't be used to his potential. Drc is hurt. We have no LB corps in how many years? Talent is there but it's not reliable on this team. Injuries and the lack of someone stepping up on the DL, is the root of the problems that you see. The scheme is not a bad one, when everyone is healthy we tend to look pretty dam good on defense.


Against who and when? And what plays does JPP take off? And what team has all-pros at every position?
RE: RE: dep...  
okiegiant : 10/23/2014 9:50 am : link
In comment 11936667 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11936663 nyblue56 said:


Quote:


I think Fewell wishes he had 3 all pro players on his D.



Oh the lack of talent thing again.... thats right. Well I believe JPP/Rolle are all-pro type players. And DRC is a pretty decent player himself.


DRC is playing hurt(as are a lot of players around the league and a lot of defenses suck)they have lost 2 nickel backs have no LB's and a starting safety who should only be on specials. JPP is playing better but does not dominate and the rest of the line, Hankins possibly excluded, are average at best.

Not a Fewell apologist but there isn't a lot of talent on this defense.
And yet, just like the QB's statistics, it doesn't feel like...  
Britt in VA : 10/23/2014 9:52 am : link
it's translating at all to wins.

Great stats, not so great record.
Quick comment on this quote...  
okiegiant : 10/23/2014 9:54 am : link
Quote:
If we are going to compare those injuries to that of Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, and Navarow Bowman - well thats just plain silly.


How well is San Francisco's defense playing right now?

And if you don't think losing your 3rd CB(and his replacement)in this league isn't crippling you must have missed all the recent rule changes.
JPP  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:55 am : link
isnt dominating because his sack numbers are low? Huh? Thats just a lazy analysis. Isnt he by far the best defensive run defender in the NFL? Doesnt he have more tackles than any other DL in the NFL?

So he had a bad game agaisnt Peters. HE didnt have many more of them this year includign against Dallas, where he dominated Tyron Smith.

We have no safeties, we have no LBs, we have none of this.

How about this, our defensive coordinator, just may be in fact.... not very good?
also...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 9:56 am : link
The Lost of nickel corners is huge in this league. Do you think we would have a different outcome with Thurmond in the slot rather than Fenner, this past sunday?
RE: Quick comment on this quote...  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 9:57 am : link
In comment 11936684 okiegiant said:
Quote:


Quote:


If we are going to compare those injuries to that of Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis, and Navarow Bowman - well thats just plain silly.



How well is San Francisco's defense playing right now?

And if you don't think losing your 3rd CB(and his replacement)in this league isn't crippling you must have missed all the recent rule changes.


If you are going to compare losing Thurmond/McBride to what SF lost, yes - I am going to say its plain silly.

And by the way.... SF has given up the 2nd fewest YPG in the NFL. So I think the comparing them to the Giants is fucking stupid.
RE: JPP  
okiegiant : 10/23/2014 9:58 am : link
In comment 11936685 dep026 said:
Quote:
isnt dominating because his sack numbers are low? Huh? Thats just a lazy analysis. Isnt he by far the best defensive run defender in the NFL? Doesnt he have more tackles than any other DL in the NFL?

So he had a bad game agaisnt Peters. HE didnt have many more of them this year includign against Dallas, where he dominated Tyron Smith.

We have no safeties, we have no LBs, we have none of this.

How about this, our defensive coordinator, just may be in fact.... not very good?


I didn't say JPP wasn't playing well I merely stated he doesn't dominate and he doesn't. DC's don't have sleepless nights worrying about JPP.

I don't think Fewell is a good DC, but you made a comment about lazy analysis, right? Well putting it all on the DC is kind of lazy too.

It isn't the fault of one person. From the front office down to the last player this defense has not done well.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:01 am : link
Comparing what we lost to what SF lost is no more silly than thinking JPP and Rolle as as impactful as guys like Bowman, Smith and Willis. Those are 3 of the best LB's in all of football. Rolle is not an elite safety. He is a very good one. JPP was an elite DE in 2011. Has been up and down since. Good this year, awesome against the run.. ok as a pass rusher.

And DRC being on the field doesn't do much if he's playing at about 50% and can't even play more than 20 snaps. There's a huge difference between what he's giving us now and what he was giving us a few weeks ago.

This defense is far less talented than you think.

Like I said.. there's a reason why Seattle is a solid defense right now compared to the elite defense they were last year and it has nothing to do with Dan Quinn.
dep, why are you getting so angry?  
okiegiant : 10/23/2014 10:02 am : link
Quote:
So I think the comparing them to the Giants is fucking stupid.


Again, look at the big picture and see with your eyes not your heart. Yes losing Smith means you lose a better player than McBride, but it is a team game and all the pieces, all of them, have to work well.

Fewell may be gone soon but I am not sure it will change much.
JPP  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:03 am : link
is by far the best rush defensive lineman in the league and has been in the backfield plenty of times in games this year.

And I backed up my information with stats. I mean, what other excuses are we going to have for him? He had a magical 6 game run in 2011. The magic kind of ended there though.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:05 am : link
In comment 11936696 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Comparing what we lost to what SF lost is no more silly than thinking JPP and Rolle as as impactful as guys like Bowman, Smith and Willis. Those are 3 of the best LB's in all of football. Rolle is not an elite safety. He is a very good one. JPP was an elite DE in 2011. Has been up and down since. Good this year, awesome against the run.. ok as a pass rusher.

And DRC being on the field doesn't do much if he's playing at about 50% and can't even play more than 20 snaps. There's a huge difference between what he's giving us now and what he was giving us a few weeks ago.

This defense is far less talented than you think.

Like I said.. there's a reason why Seattle is a solid defense right now compared to the elite defense they were last year and it has nothing to do with Dan Quinn.


JPP hasnt been one of the best DEs in football this year? Seriously? I guess we only judge him by sack numbers?
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:06 am : link
Against the run? Absolutely.

He's been up and down against the pass.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:08 am : link
What did our injury list look like those last 6 games of 2011-12?

I wonder why the defense suddenly looked so good.
RE: dep, why are you getting so angry?  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:08 am : link
In comment 11936699 okiegiant said:
Quote:


Quote:


So I think the comparing them to the Giants is fucking stupid.



Again, look at the big picture and see with your eyes not your heart. Yes losing Smith means you lose a better player than McBride, but it is a team game and all the pieces, all of them, have to work well.

Fewell may be gone soon but I am not sure it will change much.


If losing Trumaine McBride and Walter Thurmond is what we are hanging our hats on why the defense sucks - where are we going? I dont even recall even a slot WR having a big game against us anyways (oh thats right, lets point to the play where Fewell had Fenner line up against Bryant for some unknown reason).

Do we have the most talented defense in the league? Of course not. But lets not make it seem like its the worst collection of talent in the league. Did we ever think that Fewell may not get the most of what he is given? If the same problems occur game after game, year after year, and Fewell is the only constant..... well you can do the math.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:09 am : link
In comment 11936712 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What did our injury list look like those last 6 games of 2011-12?

I wonder why the defense suddenly looked so good.


So we lost a nickel corner, a LB that we never had, and our one corner has been dinged and its ok for the defense to go to shit?

Lets go back to the SF defensive coordinator. Why are they 2nd in the NFL in YPG at just a shade over 300 yards?
dep....  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 10:14 am : link
Your the one who pointed out that SF has 3 all pro players injured and yet fail to realize you are comparing a DC with that kind of talent to one that can easily say he never had that on one team.
RE: dep....  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:16 am : link
In comment 11936723 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
Your the one who pointed out that SF has 3 all pro players injured and yet fail to realize you are comparing a DC with that kind of talent to one that can easily say he never had that on one team.


And why is SF still playing good defense without those 3 players? All I said was every team has injuries. SF is missing 3 of their top players and they are still doing well. We are missing our nickel corner and our defense is shit.

.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:17 am : link
We lost both nickel corners. Thurmond and McBride are on IR. We have one good safety. Do we have any good linebackers?

Fangio is a very good DC, but he does have good players. Willis only missed the Denver game. He's played in all the others. Justin Smith is very good. Bethea has played really well. I would take Fangio over Fewell easily but this idea that good DC's can just turn shitty personnel into good defenses isn't true.
Because the talent level...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 10:17 am : link
Allows the dc and the scheme to work.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:26 am : link
In comment 11936728 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We lost both nickel corners. Thurmond and McBride are on IR. We have one good safety. Do we have any good linebackers?


Ok and we lost McBride for 1 game. Whats the excuse for all the other games, if we are going to use that reasoning with Willis?

Bethea was not even that good before this year, but maybe his coordinator put him in a position to succeed? Maybe coaching can make players better. For the majority of the year, he had JPP, Hankins, Jenkins, Ayers playing at a very high level. He has had a very good Prince. He has Rolle. DRC for the majority of the year.

You cannot have all-pros at every level of the defense. And its just not the personnel this year. Its been every year, albeit 6 games. Good QBs make our defense look very bad. Yes, we can dominate bad-to-average QBs. But his defense is based off getting sacks and turnovers. Good QBs dont turn it over at the rate we need to win games. And in the new style of offenses teams run, getting sacks is harder and harder to get.

RE: Because the talent level...  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:27 am : link
In comment 11936731 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
Allows the dc and the scheme to work.


A lot of teams would love to have the talent we have one defense. Are you saying this defense has had no talent for years now?
Ok with that said how would you...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 10:29 am : link
Approach playing defense in this league? What are the top defenses doing, that the giants are not?
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:35 am : link
In comment 11936742 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11936728 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


We lost both nickel corners. Thurmond and McBride are on IR. We have one good safety. Do we have any good linebackers?



Ok and we lost McBride for 1 game. Whats the excuse for all the other games, if we are going to use that reasoning with Willis?

Bethea was not even that good before this year, but maybe his coordinator put him in a position to succeed? Maybe coaching can make players better. For the majority of the year, he had JPP, Hankins, Jenkins, Ayers playing at a very high level. He has had a very good Prince. He has Rolle. DRC for the majority of the year.

You cannot have all-pros at every level of the defense. And its just not the personnel this year. Its been every year, albeit 6 games. Good QBs make our defense look very bad. Yes, we can dominate bad-to-average QBs. But his defense is based off getting sacks and turnovers. Good QBs dont turn it over at the rate we need to win games. And in the new style of offenses teams run, getting sacks is harder and harder to get.


Huh?

McBride was a starter for like a game and a half and then we lost him for the year. Patrick Willis is an all pro ILB. Not seeing any comparison at all.

SF has been without Willis for one game. He's still close to leading them in tackles this year.. you keep saying Fangio has been without all 3 LB's as if Willis hasn't played a down this year. He missed one game and their defense got annihilated in that game.

Bethea was pretty good in IND, Fangio didn't just turn him into a good player. He was good before he got there.

Stafford and Russell Wilson shredded us last year? Are they backup QB's?

Good QB's make most defenses look bad in this version of the NFL. This is what the league is. You have to be able to get pressure with your front.

How much better do you realistically expect this defense to be? With the players we have, I think we should be about league average and expect us to finish around there.
dep...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 10:40 am : link
Just look at the 3 guys you mentioned for SF and tell me short of JPP who on the giants you would keep over them? It's your right not to like Fewell but you are comparing his D to a team that is loaded with talent at d, to say why can't he do the same job. That's unfair. Compare him to a similarly talented d and we can ask why he is under performing in comparison.
Arc  
McNally's_Nuts : 10/23/2014 10:42 am : link
I find it hard to disagree with most of what you say. I think between you, JonC, Anish, RobbieBalls, Joey in Va and a few others I'm forgetting I always find myself shaking my head yes to what you guys are saying.

I will say this, to your last sentence. Rod Marinelli has done wonders with that shit of a squad he was given. He was literally given chicken shit and so far he's made foie gras out of it.
RE: dep...  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:43 am : link
In comment 11936767 nyblue56 said:
Quote:
Just look at the 3 guys you mentioned for SF and tell me short of JPP who on the giants you would keep over them? It's your right not to like Fewell but you are comparing his D to a team that is loaded with talent at d, to say why can't he do the same job. That's unfair. Compare him to a similarly talented d and we can ask why he is under performing in comparison.


You are making my point for me. He doesnt have Bowman and Smith (and Willis for 1 game), and they are still a good defense outside 1 game.

I am not comparing defenses or coordinators when everyone is healthy. SF's defense looks decimated compared to ours, and they arent struggling. We are missing a nickel corner and our defense sucks.

So like I have said before do you want this same style of defense for years? Or do you want Fewell gone or Reese gone? Because its not good enough. Fewell coaches the defense, Reese brings in the players. One of the two have to change.

Give me Reese and a new coordinator.
Who ever the DC is...  
nyblue56 : 10/23/2014 10:49 am : link
I just want the talent and the scheme to work. In this case every year since Coughlin we have had injuries that decimated one unit or another. We are hurt again this year, and the talent on the back end is not that good. We have been going for years without a good LB core and dedicating resources to the line. You ask me, i think we have a drafting problem and I would rather see Ross go.
RE: Arc  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 10:53 am : link
In comment 11936772 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
I find it hard to disagree with most of what you say. I think between you, JonC, Anish, RobbieBalls, Joey in Va and a few others I'm forgetting I always find myself shaking my head yes to what you guys are saying.

I will say this, to your last sentence. Rod Marinelli has done wonders with that shit of a squad he was given. He was literally given chicken shit and so far he's made foie gras out of it.


I spent a good amount of time in another thread kind of debunking the whole Marinelli thing. I really don't think he's done quite as well as people think. On the surface, it all looks good but if you look a little deeper, you see that their offense is spending more time on the field per drive than any other offense in football. It's keeping them off the field.

Dallas' defense is giving up a fraction of a yard less per drive than our defense is. It's literally like 31.something vs. 31.something.. it's almost identical.

Dallas has 6 sacks TOTAL this year. We have more than twice that.

They're no better in forcing turnovers than we are (we have one more than they do, 13-12)

Their 3rd down defense is slightly below average (17th).. for comparison, we are 9th, IIRC.

The Dallas offense (top 5 NFL offense) is really the only reason Dallas' defense seems to be playing well. It's keeping their PA and YA numbers down a bit. That defense will get exposed by the end of the year, I guarantee it. It's smoke and mirrors.
RE: RE: RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 10:53 am : link
In comment 11936762 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


How much better do you realistically expect this defense to be? With the players we have, I think we should be about league average and expect us to finish around there.


I expect them to domiante a decimated Atlanta's OL right form the gate. I expect them not to give up over 200 yards to a team who couldnt run the ball all year. I expect them to cover Calvin Johnson. I expect them to force Romo to throw an incompletion in a half.

Bad games happen. A game against Philly to me is expected due to the fact of the atmosphere and things snowballing. But game after game when it matters the most, we fail. Last year, the offense was god awful. But it mirrored the fact that our defense wasnt anything great either.
Who covers Calvin Johnson?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/23/2014 11:24 am : link
You can expect it, sure, but there isn't a very long list of teams that have successfully done it.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 11:28 am : link
We actually did it quite well last year when we shadowed him with Prince and bracketed him over the top with a safety and used 3 safeties all game.

Funny what happens when you go from having 3 safeties who can play to 1. I guess it limits what you can do.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 11:32 am : link
In comment 11936869 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
We actually did it quite well last year when we shadowed him with Prince and bracketed him over the top with a safety and used 3 safeties all game.

Funny what happens when you go from having 3 safeties who can play to 1. I guess it limits what you can do.


Excuse number 1,456,325,637 for Fewell. Now we need 3 great safeties, competent LBs, 3 All pro-players, and the great nickel corners ever in order for his defense to succeed.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 11:38 am : link
Oy vey.. you are the king of exaggeration.

Barely anyone in this league stops Calvin Johnson is the point. Using not being able to cover the most gifted, dominant WR in the sport as some indictment on our coaches is laughable.

But again. We were much more effective in doing it last year than we were this year and I just told you why. We had a good gameplan against him last year that we were not able to replicate because of personnel. If you read the transcripts, Merritt even says they'd like to use 3 safeties more this year.. obviously they haven't and it's pretty obvious why that is.

And I'm making excuses by saying having competent linebackers is probably an important component in having a good NFL defense?

Alright, then.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 11:56 am : link
Let's flip it and put it this way.

Our offense is also bottom 3rd of the league right now in points and yards just like our defense is.

Do you fault McAdoo for that or do you feel like we don't have the horses (weak interior OL, no Jennings these past 2 games, lost Cruz) ?

I don't blame the coordinator. I think his offense will work fine but I think we're undermanned to be an upper tier NFL offense right now. I'm going to bet that you think the personnel has more to do with the offensive problems than McAdoo.

I didn't love Gilbrides system, but when we had the right personnel, it did work.

It's the same shit on both sides of the football.
Giants rank  
bignygfan : 10/23/2014 12:12 pm : link
6th in opponent passer rating at 82.7.

So yes, QBs 'light us up.'

We had some idiot here talking about how great the Jets were. Jets opponents have 18 TDs and one INT.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 12:19 pm : link
Seattle was tops in the league in passer rating against last year at 65.4

Now they're 28th at a whopping 103.7

Quinn must have forgot how to coach defense.
RE: Giants rank  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 12:21 pm : link
In comment 11936949 bignygfan said:
Quote:
6th in opponent passer rating at 82.7.

So yes, QBs 'light us up.'

We had some idiot here talking about how great the Jets were. Jets opponents have 18 TDs and one INT.


Yep thats exactly what I said. Maybe quote what I actually said before making idiotic comments.
Seattle also has the Super Bowl hangover to contend with  
Greg from LI : 10/23/2014 12:26 pm : link
In any case, their track record in recent seasons on defense sure beats the Giants', so they get more of the benefit of the doubt. I know the Giants' end of season rankings last year were pretty good but that was clearly significantly affected by the number of lousy backup QBs they faced.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 12:29 pm : link
Alright, then what's Carolina's excuse?

9th last year (81.4), 26th this year (100.3)

2nd in PA and YA last year, 29th and 27th so far this year.
RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 12:35 pm : link
In comment 11937004 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Alright, then what's Carolina's excuse?

9th last year (81.4), 26th this year (100.3)

2nd in PA and YA last year, 29th and 27th so far this year.


Whats our excuse? Going by you, its all Reese's fault because he doesnt bring talent in.
Alrite  
bignygfan : 10/23/2014 12:37 pm : link
Stafford and Romo killed us.

No other QB has played well against us this year.
The numbers back that up. Period.

Your move, dickhead.
RE: Alrite  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 12:39 pm : link
In comment 11937033 bignygfan said:
Quote:
Stafford and Romo killed us.

No other QB has played well against us this year.
The numbers back that up. Period.

Your move, dickhead.


lol, You;re right. Foles was awful against us when he was going up and down the field at will. 174 yards and 2 TDs at half is for shit players. Good try. Run along. This is for adults only.

Amd 29-45 for 316 yards is horrible? Again.....you arent ready for this thread.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 12:43 pm : link
In comment 11937024 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11937004 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Alright, then what's Carolina's excuse?

9th last year (81.4), 26th this year (100.3)

2nd in PA and YA last year, 29th and 27th so far this year.



Whats our excuse? Going by you, its all Reese's fault because he doesnt bring talent in.


Is it possible for you to argue without gross hyperbole... ever? You just got on someone for misquoting you and you've done it to me like 3 times in this discussion alone.

I don't think it is ALL anyone's fault. Reese can't prevent injuries so losing those players are not his fault. But between the players AND the injuries, I think the talent has generally been average/below average on the defensive side of the football.

My assertions make sense because I keep showing you defenses who, with the same exact DC's, have shown radical changes in performance. If the DC is the constant, doesn't that tell you the players on the field are the reason for the difference much more than the coach?

I think DC's have impact, but you clearly think they have way more than I do.

Point blank, I am asking you.. what is your explanation for a team like Carolina going from an elite defense to garbage in one year if McDermott was the DC there last year and is still the guy there this year? How do you realistically say the coach is the reason for the massive dip? It doesn't add up.
RE: RE: RE: .  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 1:55 pm : link
In comment 11937051 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11937024 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 11937004 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Alright, then what's Carolina's excuse?

9th last year (81.4), 26th this year (100.3)

2nd in PA and YA last year, 29th and 27th so far this year.



Whats our excuse? Going by you, its all Reese's fault because he doesnt bring talent in.



Is it possible for you to argue without gross hyperbole... ever? You just got on someone for misquoting you and you've done it to me like 3 times in this discussion alone.

I don't think it is ALL anyone's fault. Reese can't prevent injuries so losing those players are not his fault. But between the players AND the injuries, I think the talent has generally been average/below average on the defensive side of the football.

My assertions make sense because I keep showing you defenses who, with the same exact DC's, have shown radical changes in performance. If the DC is the constant, doesn't that tell you the players on the field are the reason for the difference much more than the coach?

I think DC's have impact, but you clearly think they have way more than I do.

Point blank, I am asking you.. what is your explanation for a team like Carolina going from an elite defense to garbage in one year if McDermott was the DC there last year and is still the guy there this year? How do you realistically say the coach is the reason for the massive dip? It doesn't add up.


There could be a lot of reasons. Obviously the loss of Hardy and their pass rush has suffered. I havent watched a lot of Carolina games from lsat year to this year so its impossible for me to say how.

I do watch a lot of Giants games and notice that we have the same problems year in and year out. Its not like there are different problems that causes our defense to be below average. We still have miscommunications in the secondary. We still cant blitz effectively. We still cant cover TE problems. Some of it is a Reese problem since we do have holes. Some of it is a Fewell problem because its the same problems year in and year out.

I am not really worried about why some teams last year were good and why they arent this year. Its been 7 games, so even with Fewell we should wait until the end of the year to make a decision with him. But I am not buying a few injuries are why we struggle consistently against good QBs. Bad games happen, no doubt about it. But the bottom line is this.... when it was 28-21 against Dallas and we kicked off.... were you confident that the Giants could get a stop so our offense can win the game? I wasnt, BBI wasnt, and deep down you knew they werent getting the stop. To me.... thats a huge problem.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 2:16 pm : link
In comment 11937173 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 11937051 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 11937024 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 11937004 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Alright, then what's Carolina's excuse?

9th last year (81.4), 26th this year (100.3)

2nd in PA and YA last year, 29th and 27th so far this year.



Whats our excuse? Going by you, its all Reese's fault because he doesnt bring talent in.



Is it possible for you to argue without gross hyperbole... ever? You just got on someone for misquoting you and you've done it to me like 3 times in this discussion alone.

I don't think it is ALL anyone's fault. Reese can't prevent injuries so losing those players are not his fault. But between the players AND the injuries, I think the talent has generally been average/below average on the defensive side of the football.

My assertions make sense because I keep showing you defenses who, with the same exact DC's, have shown radical changes in performance. If the DC is the constant, doesn't that tell you the players on the field are the reason for the difference much more than the coach?

I think DC's have impact, but you clearly think they have way more than I do.

Point blank, I am asking you.. what is your explanation for a team like Carolina going from an elite defense to garbage in one year if McDermott was the DC there last year and is still the guy there this year? How do you realistically say the coach is the reason for the massive dip? It doesn't add up.



There could be a lot of reasons. Obviously the loss of Hardy and their pass rush has suffered. I havent watched a lot of Carolina games from lsat year to this year so its impossible for me to say how.

I do watch a lot of Giants games and notice that we have the same problems year in and year out. Its not like there are different problems that causes our defense to be below average. We still have miscommunications in the secondary. We still cant blitz effectively. We still cant cover TE problems. Some of it is a Reese problem since we do have holes. Some of it is a Fewell problem because its the same problems year in and year out.

I am not really worried about why some teams last year were good and why they arent this year. Its been 7 games, so even with Fewell we should wait until the end of the year to make a decision with him. But I am not buying a few injuries are why we struggle consistently against good QBs. Bad games happen, no doubt about it. But the bottom line is this.... when it was 28-21 against Dallas and we kicked off.... were you confident that the Giants could get a stop so our offense can win the game? I wasnt, BBI wasnt, and deep down you knew they werent getting the stop. To me.... thats a huge problem.


I see every team have miscommunications, though. This isn't something that only happens to us. All of these things.. I just have a hard time with assumptions. Assumptions like we have more miscommunications than most teams. How do we know that? We really don't. I'd like to see none of them but I don't know how realistic that is.

As for getting a stop towards the end of the game, I honestly have no faith in ANY NFL defense (with very few exceptions) in those situations. Time and time again, I see offenses go right down field in this league when the defense needs a stop the most. It's frustrating, I think it does happen to our defense more than it should but again.. I don't know what I'm comparing to.

And with good QB's.. there are a bunch of guys in this league who put up big numbers most years. They don't only compile against bad teams, they do it against nearly everyone. How many times a year do you actually see a Peyton or Rodgers or Luck.. or Brees, etc.. really get shut down? There's a reason these QB's throw so many TD passes every year. They do it to everyone.

The way the league is structured now, the best I feel I can realistically hope for is to just slow these guys down enough to give ourselves a chance.

If you can't get to the QB with your front 4, good luck. It's really the only way to combat big time passing offense in this league.

I don't care if Fewell stays or goes after the year - I am just prepared to watch the same issues if we field a similar team next year because a lot of them won't change.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/23/2014 2:23 pm : link
I think Fewell's average - our defense's performance is pretty much directly in line with what I'd expect given the talent we have on defense.

There are very few coaches that can consistently get more out of their talent would suggest on defense, and I think most of those guys are already head coaches.
I have to agree with Arc....  
BillKo : 10/23/2014 2:32 pm : link
....you can't really expect to stop Dallas at crunch, they have too many weapons.

Not many teams are capable, unless they are getting a pass rush and/or the offensive teams shoots itself in the foot.

Even with nice coverage on the first third down conversion by the Cowboys on that drive, they still got the first down...Romo delivered a perfect low, inside throw to Bryant.
RE: I have to agree with Arc....  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 2:39 pm : link
In comment 11937226 BillKo said:
Quote:
....you can't really expect to stop Dallas at crunch, they have too many weapons.

Not many teams are capable, unless they are getting a pass rush and/or the offensive teams shoots itself in the foot.

Even with nice coverage on the first third down conversion by the Cowboys on that drive, they still got the first down...Romo delivered a perfect low, inside throw to Bryant.


The score behalf the half, the score after half, and the drive to end the game were all drives that could have swung the tide of the game. You dont expect them to get stops every time, but there are times when some drives are bigger than the others.
Matt Ryan  
bignygfan : 10/23/2014 3:31 pm : link
threw for one score with a 7.02 YPA against us.

Foles had a 79.0 rating and a 7.29 YPA.

Learn the game. Then come play in my world.
Also the title of the thread  
bignygfan : 10/23/2014 3:38 pm : link
is interceptions.

Guess what that is? That's a good play the defense makes and counts as a bad play for the QB that throws it.

Hope that helps when you factor in starts and just throw out passing yards.
back to the topic of our defense's interceptions  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/23/2014 3:55 pm : link
it makes it even more frustrating that our defense is so inept at scoring. No one would criticize a defense for forcing too many turnovers. But the only way that turnovers guarantee points is when the defenses takes them to the house.

This ties in with the detailed analysis I've done over the years regarding our inability to score special teams touchdowns.

Since Fewell took over as DC for the 2010 season, the Giants defense has 5 defensive touchdowns-- 3 INT-TDs, and 2 Fumble TDs.[b]

The other teams in the NFC East over that period.
Redskins- [b]14
(9 pick-6s,5 fumble for TDs)
Cowboys- 14 (8 pick-6s, 6 fumble TDs)
Eagles- 11 (4 pick-6s, 7 fumble TDs)

For the Redskins and Cowboys, that averages out to an extra 2 defensive TDs per season compared with the Giants. That's hypothetically 2 more games per season that the team gets a free 7 points.

It's even worse when you factor in our special teams shameful production over the years).

I don't know if it's scheme related, or just lacking good enough athletes in our back seven, but there may not be an offense in the league over the last several years who gets less scoring help than the Giants.
sorry  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/23/2014 3:56 pm : link
about the formatting
RE: back to the topic of our defense's interceptions  
BillKo : 10/23/2014 4:17 pm : link
In comment 11937320 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
it makes it even more frustrating that our defense is so inept at scoring. No one would criticize a defense for forcing too many turnovers. But the only way that turnovers guarantee points is when the defenses takes them to the house.

This ties in with the detailed analysis I've done over the years regarding our inability to score special teams touchdowns.

Since Fewell took over as DC for the 2010 season, the Giants defense has 5 defensive touchdowns-- 3 INT-TDs, and 2 Fumble TDs.[b]

The other teams in the NFC East over that period.
Redskins- [b]14 (9 pick-6s,5 fumble for TDs)
Cowboys- 14 (8 pick-6s, 6 fumble TDs)
Eagles- 11 (4 pick-6s, 7 fumble TDs)

For the Redskins and Cowboys, that averages out to an extra 2 defensive TDs per season compared with the Giants. That's hypothetically 2 more games per season that the team gets a free 7 points.

It's even worse when you factor in our special teams shameful production over the years).

I don't know if it's scheme related, or just lacking good enough athletes in our back seven, but there may not be an offense in the league over the last several years who gets less scoring help than the Giants.


Isn't that only about 1.5 points per game (which may be significant). Does that improve scoring rank?

It seems this season, at least, our picks have set us in great position to score (last week, certainly Houston).
I remember Mundy taking one back to like.. the 1 yard line last year.  
arcarsenal : 10/23/2014 5:30 pm : link
And the offense still couldn't score a TD.
RE: Matt Ryan  
dep026 : 10/23/2014 6:19 pm : link
In comment 11937297 bignygfan said:
Quote:
threw for one score with a 7.02 YPA against us.

Foles had a 79.0 rating and a 7.29 YPA.

Learn the game. Then come play in my world.


Sorry I didn't want to play in a world where we judge qbs based on qbr on 1 game performances. It's lazy and doesn't prove anything. Eli is averaging 7 YPA this year. Guess he sucks too... huh?
let's make everyone happy:  
santacruzom : 10/23/2014 10:45 pm : link
1) We don't have a defense with above average collective talent, AND

2) we don't have an above average DC.

Everyone cool?
LB is the problem on this team  
msh : 10/26/2014 6:58 am : link
this isnt the 86 or 90 giants that had all pro LB's across the board,they have one very good LB beason but he isnt durable enough and doesnt even begin to compare to any of the 86 or 90 corps

granted those teams had the best Lb to ever play the game plus all pro's like harry carson the fact is the nfl is reflecting the college game,its about DL,corners,wideouts and allout passing the RB and LB to cover them are diminishing year on year.

the last really top shelf LB to enter the nfl was luke kuechly a couple of years ago the rest are either slow or DE/LB tweeners there just isnt the prospects worth drafting in round 1 anymore what LB there have been we wouldnt have wanted t'eo,hightower,burfecit etc we all busts and never looked like being anything else

the biggest problem i have is the system fewell uses where they hand off pass coverages and all too often this breaks down allowing WR to waltz thru the secondry uncovered far too often,there is no disguise to the coverage either time and again they run a motion route prior to the snap and its obvious its some kind of tampa 2/zone whn nobody goes with the motion route

then theres the personel choices where you have a promising guy like hankins last year and moore this year under used while they play the likes of ayers and patterson instead,the angles they run are weak and the tackling even more so winning that superbowl kept fewell in a job and that wasnt a good thing for the giants or what is quite a talented group, at least better than they are showing us for yet another year under fewell

i love tom coughlin and we wouldnt have had the success or those superbowl wins without him,i just feel its time for a change of head coach,macadoo has shown enough that he needs to stay,fewell needs to go and a defence minded head coach and a new defnsive coordinator needs to come in someone who will run the ball with williams and jennings and play stiffer defence especially in the running game where they have been gashed far too often far too easily constistantly under fewell

they need to sign jpp and prince to new deals and build around them and i would also like them to resign thurmond and mcbride to new deals
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