...the exceptions will mostly be cases like this Doctor - aid workers who bring it home with them.
Despite the panic raised by the media, we're still talking about single digits. The epidemic being forecasted by fear-mongering idiots hasn't happened, nor will it.
This is a medical professional, a Doctor. Came from a humanitarian mission in Africa where he treated Ebola patients. Would you not, as a medical professional, with that history of treating Ebola patients, put yourself in self-quarantine for the 21 days without going out bowling, for example? I know the expectations of getting Ebola are very low, but I guess I expected more caution from this medical professional in this case with what has gone on the the last month, perhaps there are more facts to come that I do not know.
the doc was treating patients in Africa. The FD had a special unit respond which was equipped for isolation. He was treated in isolation in the hospital….
Everything sounds textbook.
It shows a bit what a joke was that hospital in Dallas. Knew he was in Africa and still sent him home with ebola symptoms 2 nurses down with the illness pictures showing them in inadequate protective gear….could they have done worse. Taken him blood and smeared it around the ER I guess aside that no.
This to the credit of NYC their FD and hospitals….at least right now sounds textbook Kudos to them.
Is NYC and the federal quick strike teams are taking no chances and decontaminating everything including the bowling alley if he was there. Also, they better find that Uber driver just as a precaution.
You are just embarrassing yourself - the guy risked his life to save some of the poorest and sickest people on the planet, was likely elbow deep in diseased awfulness and may pay the ultimate price.
And your first thought is an irrelevant, douchey, cheap shot?
hysteria now ebbs. which it should this is hard to get and now appears treatable with adequate supportive assistance to prevent dehydration. Antiinflamitories actually hurt when taken for Ebola. I
m sure that poor guy in Dallas he was taking bunches of them as that is what you take with those type symptoms. But they hurt not help with Ebola.
tbe recovery has already occurred. All the airline stocks which were the first to drop are back up with report of good earnings helping that.
Hospital stocks took a big hit took last week and have now gone back up. So this will set it back a bit but I expect not to much. It was just so well handled it may actually help. The doc didn't see any patients since back so he sort of self isolated a bit. probably he knew he was at risk and acted properly as he should have, not jetting around the country.
The general public…..I think mostly it is media. A bit us but mostly them. They blew it way out of proportion. In the end it had to fall back in on itself. Mostly it was nonsense…..mutation…geese louise not here with a handful of cases…AFrica perhaps.
RE: Did you get banned for being critcal of the POTUS ? Â
I wouldn't expect on getting the officials to confirm it. They don't want panic but if he was symptomatic two days before there is potential for spread through sneezing, saliva exchange, sweat.
the AFrican treatment. They are finding things out as they go along. In Africa now they are giving them a special fluid concoction by mouth. The idea being to super hydrate with electrolytes. If you can keep it down you live, if you can't or refuse you die. They did not really know till a little while ago aspirin tylenol things like that hurt not help.
Iv's being available our knowledge base improving we will probably with time have a real good success rate.
but the guy initially was thinking he was sluggish. Following a air trip and all that is not so unusual. So was he really symptomatic early on….hard to tell.
In any event they will probably quarantine only his girl friend and close contacts is my guess. This will not I think be like Dallas.
is only transmittable when symptomatic which means with a fever the CDC has said is 101.5 or better.
So little suggests this guy was symptomatic on a plane. Symptomatic prior to transport to the hospital is possible as he said he felt sluggish but probably not. He would know when he got a fever.
RE: Sounds like this was done about exactly right Â
the doc was treating patients in Africa. The FD had a special unit respond which was equipped for isolation. He was treated in isolation in the hospital….
Everything sounds textbook.
It shows a bit what a joke was that hospital in Dallas. Knew he was in Africa and still sent him home with ebola symptoms 2 nurses down with the illness pictures showing them in inadequate protective gear….could they have done worse. Taken him blood and smeared it around the ER I guess aside that no.
This to the credit of NYC their FD and hospitals….at least right now sounds textbook Kudos to them.
To be fair to Dallas, NY learned a lot from them. Three weeks ago, NYC had no clue either.
The CDC has changed the airline guidelines to any fever Â
but as of yet I think have not put a number to that. Health care wise it was set at 101.5. But this stuff does change every day seemingly….the CDC sort of sucks as well.
I'm not to worried about this guy at all. Like I said NYC did it right, kudos to them.
Four people they say will be quarantined.
They are making excuses for Dallas..Dallas sucked plain flat sucked at their exposure.
Night and day…congrats to all New Yorkers you have a lot to be proud of here it seems.
Is that where I am we talk about NYC, what they're doing (about infectious diseases in addition to Ebola as well), procedures, preparedness fairly often.
The crazy thing is REO Speedwagon had 3 top 10 hits Â
in the southwest, and my daughter is currently a active one….health care here the hospitals sort of suck. Nationally I looked into this a couple of years ago and found NM hospitals by a national ranking organizations was like as not subpar in every category.
I didn't look at Texas but my guess is the same. I've lived in the NYC area years ago and had occasion at times and I was always OK with the treatment.
Here not so much. In NM it had to do with years ago medicaid reimbursements to docs…all the good ones left as they were just to low. Texas my guess is with their health care system it is about the same. More uninsured than anywhere else I suspect Texas is a lot like NM.
Just yes conjecture but my guess is those in NYC are so used to it they don't appreciate it so much. Things really suck in some parts of the country. Really suck.
Has been reported to be awful. Burial pits, garbage, medical waste. That Would still contain the disease, right? Is this being treated like the national security issue it is?
This is the perfect terrorist delivery device sitting in open fields in diseased ravaged countries with broken down infrastructure. Wrap some martyrs up in it and put em on planes all over the world before they become symptomatic in 8-10 days.
Ugh, just so much horrible stuff in the news right now.
but muslims to my recollection fervent ones like those who are Isis have strict rules on the burying of the dead, It must be done immediately and I don't think cremation is ever allowed. Blowing up oneself really the body is blown up not cremated. So blowing up is sort of a grey area.
So basically as they cremate those who suffer from this thing and the heart of Isis is the extreme muslim religion….I'd guess they would not do it. All going in would know they would be cremated and not buried and likely not within 24 hours as they require.
Has been reported to be awful. Burial pits, garbage, medical waste. That Would still contain the disease, right? Is this being treated like the national security issue it is?
This is the perfect terrorist delivery device sitting in open fields in diseased ravaged countries with broken down infrastructure. Wrap some martyrs up in it and put em on planes all over the world before they become symptomatic in 8-10 days.
Ugh, just so much horrible stuff in the news right now.
Now THAT is some scary shit right there. I bet your not the first one to think of it either.
the only thing they could have done worse in Dallas is run through the streets splashing blood on all the doorsteps.
Everyone is saying…well it is just that Dallas was the first one….I say no we knew of ebola in Africa about 4 or so months ago and first for us was not first at all. I knew about it probably you knew of the threat a month ago…why not the Dallas hospital and admin, who did not do any training for the threat.
The CDC did not help but that hospital performed miserably to my opinion, even considering first case.
They suck I would not send anyone to that hospital if one could avoid it. How much are they not getting caught on? It is just by chance they were caught with untrained personal and inadequate care by this one thing. How many more before when the spotlight was not shining?
but muslims to my recollection fervent ones like those who are Isis have strict rules on the burying of the dead, It must be done immediately and I don't think cremation is ever allowed. Blowing up oneself really the body is blown up not cremated. So blowing up is sort of a grey area.
So basically as they cremate those who suffer from this thing and the heart of Isis is the extreme muslim religion….I'd guess they would not do it. All going in would know they would be cremated and not buried and likely not within 24 hours as they require.
So I don't see that happening.
Not sure if this was a response, but people are avoiding going to the hospital and dying at home because of forced cremations. But that's a new implement. They've been piling corpses into marked and unmarked graves (along with all the medical waste). Dogs were eating it. Contamination was flowing eight into the river.
The disposal process is not safe, secure, or even completely known to anyone. The dead are under reported.
Just sneezing and coughing all over a subway car is plenty good if you're symptomatic. Link - ( New Window )
can't live outside a moist environment longer than 24 hrs. Once the blood dries it dies. This isn't anthrax.
Ok, go find a victim and "care" for him. The first case was just reported in Mali. That's wolf country. Responsible for allowing safe passage of Libyan arms out of the country.
This is a wmd if someone were able to effectuate the proper sequence of events.
the cost for this is probably astronomical. In CT, they require a 24/7 police presence to quarantine people in their homes. Guess who is paying for that?
where are you finding this crap? The article you link to says nothing about sneezing on a subway, in fact an infected person would have to be deathly ill for the virus to build up enough potency for it to be transmitted through saliva. Coughing and sneezing only happen in the later stages of the disease. Link - ( New Window )
When I was taking the 1 and 3 trains downtown everyday you come across the craziest crap. People actually jacking off on the train. Others that smelled as if they hadn't showered in years. I tried to touch nothing in those damn cars. I'd rather lean against the door and stand until I got to my stop.
I'm very damn happy to not be doing that anymore.
I never saw anyone REALLY clean those cars other than pickup some trash.
my point is there seems to be little chance Islamic terrorists would get infected and come here as a form of terrorism. It would violate their religion in that they need to bury within 24 hours and cremation is not allowed. AS both would with someone with ebola coming here they would not choose this method. Blowing themselves up is really not cremation I would guess by their take, being something of a grey area and thus allowed.
In any event there are many reasons for the spread in Africa. Ebola stays active in a dead body for quite some time. IN Africa like as not it is the family who takes care of the dead body. There may be a bunch of family involved in that, cleaning and dressing the dead body for a funeral. And at the funeral like as not they are touching the dead body as well. That likely is by my take the reason early on for the rapid spread there. Here there is little chance of that.
Eventually they will get it right over there Nigeria already has.
Speaking of NYC as opposed to Dallas NYC FD has something in the range of 30 Haz tec units which was one used with the doc's being transported.
NYC has had them in place for years and years. Trained personal and equipment to handle exactly this type of thing. And they did so admirably. NYC peoples don't I think perhaps, really appreciate in how cutting edge they are in many ways there.All aspects of medical treatment.
where are you finding this crap? The article you link to says nothing about sneezing on a subway, in fact an infected person would have to be deathly ill for the virus to build up enough potency for it to be transmitted through saliva. Coughing and sneezing only happen in the later stages of the disease. Link - ( New Window )
I'll be clearer. It is a known fact that the Ebola dead have been piled into unmarked and marked graves. Many of which already seep into the river. Medical waste disposal is no better. It was only recently where cremation was instituted as an order.
Soooo....find some fresh Ebola waste or an Ebola victim. Expose a bunch of jihadis to the virus and get em on planes fast before they are symptomatic. Cruise through the border without any infection or fever and sit tight until it's time to go.
As they become symptomatic, get on a subway and start coughing and spitting and spreading the fluids around.
It violates their religion. I would not worry about it for that reason. These are religious fanatics who must be buried in special ways when not blowing themselves up for one reason or other.
Not concerned about it, merely bringing a security issue up Â
why don't you do some actual research (you can start by reading the article I linked to) and it will tell you that even if an infected person could build up enough of the virus in their saliva to spread it they would be in no condition to get on a train. Turn off Fox News and get a grip...
It violates their religion. I would not worry about it for that reason. These are religious fanatics who must be buried in special ways when not blowing themselves up for one reason or other.
Btw, most of these psychos are converts who have no concept of the real teachings of the religion. It's not even on the radar - these guys in Canada are prime example, but so is isis teaching bastardized versions of the Quran.
why don't you do some actual research (you can start by reading the article I linked to) and it will tell you that even if an infected person could build up enough of the virus in their saliva to spread it they would be in no condition to get on a train. Turn off Fox News and get a grip...
You're just trying to be a pip. I don't watch Fox and don't need to. I'll allow you to be blind to a well constructed plan which would be pretty easy to execute.
blowing themselves up or driving planes into buildings is to them like dying in a war, which is considered right and nobel a good way to die.
This thing of getting infected and then as result being cremated and coming to a heathen country like the US where likely you would not be buried for a week or so, who knows how long….no. these are religious extremists who want to send the world back to the time of MOhammed…they don't do things contrary to their religion. It is all about their interpretations of their religion. Moderates here they perhaps though Muslim may not worry about the 24 hours thing. Fundametalists certainly do.
So I would not worry. Media saying that I would say like with the virus mutating here…they are fueling the fire of fear to sell coverage and increase ratings.
blowing themselves up or driving planes into buildings is to them like dying in a war, which is considered right and nobel a good way to die.
This thing of getting infected and then as result being cremated and coming to a heathen country like the US where likely you would not be buried for a week or so, who knows how long….no. these are religious extremists who want to send the world back to the time of MOhammed…they don't do things contrary to their religion. It is all about their interpretations of their religion. Moderates here they perhaps though Muslim may not worry about the 24 hours thing. Fundametalists certainly do.
So I would not worry. Media saying that I would say like with the virus mutating here…they are fueling the fire of fear to sell coverage and increase ratings.
Please stop telling me not to worry. 1) if I wanted to worry, I would. I have no reason to and I'm not. 2) im merely presenting a hypothetical scenario based on facts on the ground. If you don't want to play that's fine. 3) the only thing Muslim about these guys is in name only. They prey on the uneducated, indoctrinate them, and teach them a bastardized version of the holy book. The converts who self radicalize never understood it in the first place. Anything about burial rites always is after mission. Don't buy the religious war.
with a Shia collectively to sponsor their terrorism.They don't play well together as they hate each other. but the media spreads such notions. If you are familiar a bit with their religion you can keep the media on the straight and narrow.
If not they can say anything and we know not to not believe it. This ebola and its consequences to the faithful who believe as they do…take my word on it or ask some of them yourself if you have access….they would not do such a thing in such a way.
it will not, but go ahead. I will not step in your way. It's your business not mine. Few you will find believing that could happen for cause but that again is your decision not mine nor theirs.
Been to them all, interacted with people and their cultures and customs. Spent time appreciating all that's new and different. That was my life and work for a long time and I have a better appreciation of what is what than most people around.
The doctor started feeling sick on Tuesday and did not turn himself in until Friday. In between he rode the subway, took a Taxi and went bowling. My biggest fear for NYC (now or in the future)is that some homeless person picks it up and dies in some alley. With as dense as NYC is, Ebola could get out of control very quickly.
go jogging since he has been back. Bowling these are not things a person symptomatic with ebola can do. He was feeling sluggish but the first real fever he had was this morning 103. So likely this is the first time he was symptomatic.
People with jet lag feel sluggish for a few days. Like as not that was the accountable reason.
Never say never but it seems unlikely the scenario described.
Four people were what I heard were going to be quarantined. Probably a couple more as things go I would guess. Like in Dallas…no I don't expect that.
Why would he ignore his own health and then put others at risk. The wise guy statements on here wouldn't be so if you had close contact with the individual.
temp wise is(or was of a few days ago) 101.5. That fever in a adult not to mention 103 like this doc had this morning…you can't move around at all nevertheless go jogging or bowling.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
To me and the rest of America that attended public school Â
And faked a sick day, having a "temperature" is commonly agreed upon as breaking 100 by moms and rapscallions all over. That's common sense. This uber and Brooklyn bowl thing is a bad sign bc if Ebola doctors can be that sloppy what happens when it's regular people?
You don't just get to 103 in the span of time he gives. You are right that the number for Ebola is currently 101.5. Don't know if this guy thought he was out of the woods or it wouldn't happen to him, but why self quarantine and then break it right at the end? Did he miscount? Did he have a temperature sub 101.5 but above 100? We need to get serious here. This doctor should not have been allowed to self isolate considering the contact and proximity he was in. Coulda woulda shoulda.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
and that he wasn't really around folks once he had them. If the guy from Dallas went in and out of the hospital a couple of times before finally getting treated and only the hospital staff that were directly treating him picked something up, then I like the odds for NY.
I get that a person feeling fatigued could get that for a myriad Â
Of reasons. However, a doctor who just was in Guinea treating Ebola patients should have taken much greater precautions than he did with even a minor or innocuous symptom. He is hero for having the guts to go fight this disease in West Africa, but I am afraid his actions here were very selfish. I do wish he gets better, and I also hope he didn't put anyone at risk.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Can I lock myself up in the basement with the DVDs and pass on the hysteria?
I understand the perceived potential of leveraging this virus into a vehicle of terrorism however, as frightening as it seems, the marginal effort required to spin Ebola into a threat seems to be much greater than that of other methods.
Do extremists really need to go through the planning and shackle themselves with the risks envolved with weaponozing this disease across the world when they could simply board a subway car with a gun or homemade explosive? It's not as if we do not have the capacity to quarentine and effectively limit the spread of the disease immediately following a potential attack, as we do. Even within the spectrum of disease, would using a virus relatively difficult to transmit really be more efficient than some of the other horrible diseases that could be harnessed to ravage the population?
Sure, I suppose that Ebola could theoretically be leveraged by a terrorist but among my chief fears of threat it would rank rather low.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Yeah but at least wed probably be back in the playoffs.
temp wise is(or was of a few days ago) 101.5. That fever in a adult not to mention 103 like this doc had this morning…you can't move around at all nevertheless go jogging or bowling.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
I still say that "a person is not contagious until symptomatic" is weak. It's a vague statement and "symptomatic is never defined. You say a fever (as do federal authorities) but that's because it is fairly early and measurable. But "feeling poorly" may also indeed be a symptom. Or, there may be something else. Fever itself is subject to individual variation that may have little to do with the extent of viremia. Fever may be suppressed artificially or by stress or by hormones.
Until someone shows me specific data linking specific symptoms, including a range of body temp, with viral blood titers or a measure of infectivity, I will be skeptical of any flat statements as to whether a person is contagious at any given point.
You may be right; but you actually don't know. Nobody does.
but it bears repeating. In a published study last week it was reported that the mean time between becoming symptomatic (maybe contagious) and being hospitalized was 5 days and that number didn't vary between healthcare workers and non-healthcare workers. Small sample size in developed countries, obviously, but you can see glimpses of it in the reported incidents and that number might not be too far off here either.
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
No, you've been throwing out idiotic posts about people being racist if they are concerned about ebola or want a travel ban. You never brought up Little Liberia at all.
People are scared of Ebola now. So they link their fears and create a scenario where terrorists use Ebola.
Smoking cigarettes and eating bacon double cheeseburgers will kill far more Americans than Ebola or terrorism, but people are ruled by their fears rather than reason.
Sent a "patient" to the ER and a couple of the primary care sites with a note saying something like "I've just returned from west africa and I am running a fever". I heard the drills went well. I had my EVD-PPD (Ebola Virus Disease - Personal Protective Equipment) training on monday. I've had to gown up on occasion in the past but I've never used the hood and face shield before - or the double glovng. We're in upstate NY so we're fairly low risk but obviously it could happen anywhere.
I agree that Texas hospital must be terrible I really don't think that transfer would have happened here.
why there is a difference is quarantine response between this doctor and his friends? Both apparently were in close contact with at least one individual diagnosed and symptomatic with the disease, the doctor more so than the others, and yet the friends get mandatory quarantine but the doctor gets self-monitoring. If there is enough concern to quarantine the doctor's close friends, then why wasn't the doctor quarantined following his exposure in Africa?
And again, Bill L is doing great work on these threads!
for the same reason that people here who may have been exposed to Ebola patients shouldn't fly but we didn't need a travel ban for people from those countries.
The reason people are upset and afraid is because the information we are getting makes no sense. No one has much confidence in what the authorities are saying or doing.
and people have every right to be angry with him. The fact that he contracted the disease while trying to help is no excuse. He was riding the train and bowling while still within the incubation period. His behavior was arrogant and reckless. I have spoken to three different doctors today who feel even more strongly that I do that this guy was 100 percent wrong.
And yes, this is not a crisis yet. But the highly-concentrated dosage of snark and dismissiveness is uncalled for and very premature. No one can predict at this point how events will continue to develop. But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
was irresponsible on a number of levels. Even if no other person gets sick the damage done to local businesses can be irreversible. People just don't want to be in a place where "the infected" were hanging out.
But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
What is virtually unimaginable? That one Liberian National has died in the United States from Ebola? That healthcare workers treating the infected have contracted it? (and since been cured). There is no crisis.
It's ok to be cautious and even concerned. The snark is directed at the completely IRRATIONAL response to whats happening. The spread of this disease in the US versus the panic about the spread of the disease is completely out of proportion.
Let's not forget Nina Pham is cured. Ashoka Mukpo is cured. Amber Vinson is cured. 40+ workers in contact with Thomas Duncan are cured.
The fever was actually 100.3 F, not 103 F, and he reported the fever and likely ebola exposure at first sign. Likelihood of him being contagious before he went into quarantine is very, very low. Moreover, survival rates of patients receiving plasma serum from recovered patients will probably top 90%, and the NIH just commenced human tests on a vaccine.
Moreover, ISIS is nowhere fucking near Liberia. You think getting there is a simple walk in the park right now? Get real. You pantywaists are looking for shit to freak out about.
to spread this have been missing the point ...since last spring.
Even IF the state of new york is as prepared as the governor says by now, (and we do need to be prepared, regardless), and even IF ....IF... nobody else (the attention whore, idiot-boy doctor partied with) gets it;
Can this city and state send the mindless, vacuous wonks in the federal executive branch of the federal government the massive follow-up and track down and medical $$$$invoice$$$$?
for not allowing for a quaranteen at the border in the first place?
no offense to NYCers but ever notice how even when something is done great or a great result happens it is not so much great that happened but the what if…?
NYers tend to be that way to my opinion. We won the most fantastic super bowl ever against a insurmountable team non FB weather that was unheard of in a home town that n the play offs no one ever looses to…doing a thing that sport wise is impossible totally impossible…and like as not the response by NYers is….what about next year.
NYC kudos to you you did great and deserve accolades for it.
Dallas not so much…you sucked at this all the way around.
Our success ration here in the US against this killer killer thing that kills all exposed to it appears to be about 75% or better. Anyone want to bet on this doc making it…I'd take that bet hands down.
If this thing is so so contagious how come they put that family of that guy in Dallas that guy who had projectile vomiting, back in the apt he was in by armed guard …and didn't even remove any of the infectious material in the apartment for at least 6 hours. By a armed PO they were forced to remain in the apt with the stuff. And none of them caught it. Were they infectious disease specialists who knew how to act in that….no.
It was so bad the Dallas response it was tragic. Eventually they cleaned the apt. The first comment and I remember it clearly….they are one official stated responsible for cleaning up their own household wastes….
Geeze louise…that really happened. It had nothing to do with Dallas being the first place it is that they sucked at it.
Kudos to NYC. EBola….I am not to worried about it.
the implication is that he had unprotected sex with his GF.
and why is the Uber driver in the hospital? is uber running a blowjob service as well?
AND...what was the good doctor doing during the week in west african after his medical service was over?
implication is that it took a very long time for symptoms to evolve, and that he may have caught it during his little vacation rather than during the prior service period.
long story short, experts harping on how hard it is to spread and the privacy and travel rights of people with it look increasingly wrong headed.
the reason it spread so quickly at a impossibly sharp curve in Africa…..is because it remains active for quite a while in a dead body. And in Africa who bathes clothes and all the rest to a dead family member is the family. so for each dead you have at least 6 or so that would be exposed pretty directly. It is not like it is here. That is yes personal opinion but when all is said and done studies done and reports written years from now I bet that is found to be a large initial cause in its initial spread in Africa.
Truth be told my opinion is this….Africa places like that…. will use this to enable funding to help their overall health system. They have reasons as well to make this worse than it really is..economic ones. They simply largely have no health care…this is one way to get some funding so they do.
So they get attention to their health care system needs and reinforcement on the reasons why the rest of the world like the US should care.
it is the human way to act aside from practical purpose.
But it pays to make this appear worse than it is. Do the raw number(not the projections) account for this amount of hysteria…flu season each year takes far more deaths than that by multiple times globally.
It is all overdone here and there but for reason it is so here and there.Different reasons but it simply is not so bad as they describe and cannot be here. For any number of reasons.
NYC this response..this shows a lot of that as to reasons. We have flat plain and simple in NYC our s&^% together on this.
studies have found airborne transmission of ebola Â
contrary to assertions from CDC and the admin., there have been multiple studies that have demonstrated airborne transmission of ebola. It may be limited to short distances (though some scientists fear mutation that will allow it to travel further distances), but to say that direct contact is the only way isn't supported by at least 3 studies.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
other viruses that were once believed to not be airborne transmitted were ultimately found to be so (some scientists now believe that influenza virus can travel for hundreds of miles). It is known that viruses can become desiccated to the degree that their particle size and light weight allow them to become airborne and they can later be rehydrated from ambient humidity and repaired.
Viruses are about 100 times smaller than avg bacteria. HEPA filters are very efficient with particles down to 0.3 microns. Unfortunately, viruses can have particle sizes 100 times smaller.
Yes, if someone is coughing, and what they are coughing up is probably blood present subsequent to internal hemorrhaging in lung tissues..and they cough some of that into your eyes mouth or nose….you will probably get ebola.
So yes in their zeal to stop mass hysteria they are a bit misleading us on these things. Lying to us they are you are right.
There is no excuse for that and I agree 100%. but they are idiots who generally don't know their A from a hole in the ground these bureaucrats who run things and tell us lies.
Truth is though despite their lies ebola is really pretty hard to get.
WE studied it years ago when it presented first 20 or so to american knowledge in those circles of infectious control.
It is not such a problem because basically like this doc getting overnight a 103 fever from nothing the night before. It's onset is so thorough and complete peoples symptomatic can not even speak nevertheless walk around spreading it by coughing on subways and such. They are to debilitated to move nevertheless walk to a subway. Some can with great effort but really when symptomatic quickly you can do nothing but lie around.
So you don't spread it so easily lying around usually in your home.
The hysteria they are lying to stop is nevertheless their lies not viable. it is generally for no good reason.
The cdc sucks like Dallas sucks at this. It is the CDC's job so that is sad but that is why poetically they had to put someone else in charge…as the CDC sucked so bad at this.
lying about this and then all the well intentioned politicians and talking heads on TV repeating this to us, but I guess we are so used to being lied to it is sort of for us inconsequential.
I don't know why but people really don't care that they lie and when you tell them they do on other things….generally they get real real mad….not at the Cdc but at you.
How it is….:)
no it is the football team…I hate Dallas and am rubbing it in when NYC is great at at thing and they plainly suck at a thing….like we do at FB right about now.
They suck really suck a whole lot worse on ebola…so take that Dallas fans.
contrary to assertions from CDC and the admin., there have been multiple studies that have demonstrated airborne transmission of ebola. It may be limited to short distances (though some scientists fear mutation that will allow it to travel further distances), but to say that direct contact is the only way isn't supported by at least 3 studies.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
I'm not sure if it's the same study or not, but the one I read on the pigs to monkey transfer also noted that when they did the same experiment, housing infected monkeys next to naive monkeys, there was *no* intra-species transmission.
So, it's of concern and it's thought-provoking but there is no misleading and no need to panic. It says that there can be some airborne transmission between some select species and some other select species, but, at least in non-human primates, no airborne transmission from one member of the species to another member of the same species.
Now, that all does beg the question of how you define airborne transmission. Most times when people cough there is the spray of fluid, so droplets could be spread.
Bloomberg had more to do with the FD in the time period when they advanced their TEC teams, who responded to this. Had them for years and years but it was expanded in years past not right now.
Politicians of course will take credit for anything as we know.
This NYC response the media is painting it as…we learned from our first mistakes we now do better…that is the narrative we are being sold.
Nonsense…there are multiple reasons why NYC responded better per example the 30 plus tec teams they have for response and transport of patients. Does Dallas have even one. I know they have haz mat and such but to transport patients…I don't think so…maybe on paper is some plan somewhere.
The hospitals I can not speak to that but I bet my bottom dollar they are depending on training and infer structure internal to hospitals that was developed many years ago.
Can you remake the wheel in a month heck no.
Dallas you have another event in Dallas even right now…I bet they screw it up badly. Did not they move anyone infected right out of Texas anyone except that poor guy who died that is…his mistake staying in dallas.
Dallas zero rest of country 100 success rate%
….no dallas you flat plain and simple suck at this…they are coming with us.
Some poor guy from AFrica knows not if he is coming or going…you can stay in Dallas ;)
One dies and two live…go figure.
NYC want to bet he stays in NYC and lives. They could move him where he would prefer, but NYC if he stays there I bet firmly and securely…he lives. Dallas I would not take that bet.
I don't know anything about American Thinker, whether it's left or right. It was one of the first links to come up. The studies were conducted. I was part of a discussion with a prestigious hospital just two weeks ago and this topic came up. I can't help it that only certain sources are reporting it. Google it yourself. Airborne transmission of ebola .
that you say "Dallas" as if its a single-hospital backwoods town. I'm pretty sure Dallas Presbyterian is not the main hospital in the city. For example, Parkland is physically attached to UT Southwestern Medical Center which is a premier research facility in this country with a fair share of Nobel laureates. UTSW would easily match up with any of the medical centers in NYC.
I don't know anything about American Thinker, whether it's left or right. It was one of the first links to come up. The studies were conducted. I was part of a discussion with a prestigious hospital just two weeks ago and this topic came up. I can't help it that only certain sources are reporting it. Google it yourself. Airborne transmission of ebola .
re. the study you are referring to where there was no airborne transmission, some believe that the infected monkeys simply died too quickly for it to spread.
As i said, there have been at least 3 studies where there was airborne transmission. One in '95, one in '12 and don't remember where or when the other but think it may have been '10.
Now i really have to go. If I have time later, i will get more details on the studies. Have a nice ebola free day everyone.
is a bit different to general knowledge than airborne transmission thought of by others.
Can ebola be alive in the air like a flu can for quite some time so you inhale minute particles and then they infect you after they sneeze or cough …certainly not.
Can you cough up a spot of blood then spew that out as some are inclined to do when they cough forcefully into someones now ear eye or mouth…yes as well.
But saying it is not airborne transmissible leads people to think like nurses in Dallas did…..I don't need full protective covering I may leave my neck exposed….so it can lead to bad things.
The general meaning is not perhaps the literal medical meaning but the use of the literal medical meaning in a general context is a lie. A good intention is behind it to prevent the needless hysteria, but it is a form of lying to the general public. to the general public a person coughing into your eye a bit of blood…it is airborne transmittable that thing.
in some large part because the CDC screwed their communication on this thing so badly. And in some cases the actual treatment. They probably did actually tell the nurse to get onto that plane in Chicago even though she had a low grade fever.They have since changed airline travel to be no fever….as it became publicly a issue that she traveled.
They suck as bad as Dallas which is why they were basically taken out of the ballgame a other person is basically now running the CDC. Not a medical person but we can hope someone with common sense. Evidently it was quite lacking over there.
They hurt credibility in many ways when they commit not overt but perhaps covert lies to the american public…like here people come to find out.
Found out how much do they trust them on the next thing?
and all medical people going way overboard with protocol. For instance, when the first doctor was flown into Atlanta, they shut down the entire route from Dobbins AF base to the CDC. Thankfully it was on a weekend. I was questioning that, but what if the ambulance got into an accident. And they had the full suits with respirators. For some reason everything outside of the CDC has been sloppy. Some of the precautions may be a bit much, but this virus, while not airborne, seems to be easy for medical personnel to get. Many in Africa, including Doctors without Borders have got it and died. So I don't know why people were not especially careful.
they want to assuage the hysteria of the general public but sans training and familiarity even your nurses start to think it is no big deal.
They want the public to think that and they should, not worry but the nurses internalized that and did as well and treated this guy without full protective gear…they left their necks exposed.
The hospital should have trained prior as NYC obviously did. Bill for one attests to that.
The NYC thing was not a accident nor just because we have learned from Dallas…that is media pap. Docs nurses Fire depts they train have equipment and are generally ready in NYC. I bet a brush up is all they did in this month. It is obvious they were ready to go.
The CDC were changing their guidelines virtually every day. This when they knew of it four now five months ago and having plenty of time to prepare for it coming here.
It is amazing how badly they sucked at this.
I don't know if this is true, but it makes a cute sign - Â
he now has come and gone..quite lived up to promise though. In retrospect all in all I put him as one of the good maybe great ones. No SB ring however.
Years and years I am quite amazed most of the old old crowd are still here.
Nice hearing from peoples like you especially who as I recall were always enjoyable to speak with, without exception.
Your memory is quite exceptional as well ;)
Quomo giving the 'Bama a lesson on leadership. Good for him. Getting out ahead of the pc gang
Maybe this is what the bama meant by saying we were 'in for a learning moment'. yeah he was...
NY Times:
''
New York and New Jersey Tighten Ebola Screenings at Airports
By MARC SANTORAOCT. 24, 2014
The governors of New York and New Jersey announced Friday afternoon that they were ordering all people entering the country through two area airports who had direct contact with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea to be quarantined.
The announcement comes one day after an American doctor, who had worked in Guinea and returned to New York City earlier in October, tested positive for Ebola and became the first New York patient of the deadly virus.
“A voluntary Ebola quarantine is not enough,” said Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York. “This is too serious a public health situation.”
Outlined in a late afternoon news conference, the new protocols raised a host of questions about how, exactly, the screening process would work and who, exactly, it would target. The two airports in question are Kennedy International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport.
Medical personnel returning from Ebola-stricken countries to New York or New Jersey will be automatically quarantined, officials said Friday afternoon.
Dr. Spencer was in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital Center on Friday afternoon, the city’s health commissioner, Dr. Mary T. Bassett, said at the news conference.
The Blue Bottle, a cafe in a former loading bay in the shadow of the High Line that Dr. Spencer visited before developing a fever, was allowed to reopen on Friday after clearing a city inspection.
Follow live developments on City Room »
It was also taken without consulting the New York City health department, according to a senior city official.
Earlier in the day, the White House sidestepped questions about whether a quarantine of health care workers was being considered. Instead, officials defended the procedures the administration has put in place...''
that makes actually perfect sense. Self quarantine I would assume as how can they quarantine in some special place. Who is there at the airport to help them quarantine? Go home whatever keep by yourself for the time period required.
The media does not seem to get it. This is not a screening or a putting of peoples somewhere as I read it. It puts the requirement of law for all those so exposed to do the right thing, which is self quarantine.
That way thought…this is excellent. If they deny entry and all that that is counter productive to the thing of control. But legally certainly why not so exposed be forced by law to quarantine.
I agree 100% This doc good doc he is for what he did…he needed to self quarantine. and he could have. They have to make facilities available for those who would do this…so it may be a large undertaking. But the expenses on the other side if they do not…..way exceed those costs.
Enforceable no it is not. Who is to say who tells the truth. But 99% of the time the law will find most peoples truthful in this.
can not afford to stay away from home friends family jobs and all the rest just because they were in contact with those others.
How would they eat for one? Those countries are not in the business of feeding foreign nationals. Where would they stay for another?
They will here have to make some sort of accommodation for those who cannot self quarantine. Most probably can self quarantine. It does not have to be complete isolation before symptoms present if they do at all.
Denying them back would have not been right for citizens, they have done nothing wrong.
for the USA to build a little free quarantine village near the airport in freetown liberia, for example, and offerround trip free flights for any medical volunteers willing to take the proper steps.
what we have done so far is the exact opposite, barely helping at all (until this month) and yet also leaving our own cities exposed out of misplaced motives.
suppose they had kids. I mean stay away from your kids for a month or so just because you had some interaction.
Sounds like a POW camp, disagreeable places those. Just being in that country sucks nevertheless being there 21 more days then you have to.
Disagree let them back self quarantine or if not possible give them a place like they did finally in Dallas where they can stay like a home environment.
Little risk to that. Symptomatic sure isolate them immediately and entirely.
there is no one in Liberia who is going to be watching to see who is interacting with ebola people.
You make it punitive like a camp…they will go out of the country to another by maybe bus, jet out of there and then say they were not in those countries. Or were in there but really stayed in this other. The passport stamp says the country they jetted out of. There may not even be stamped going between african countries.
There are just to many ways to hide where they were and who they interacted with. Some they could prove like this doc but who would do the checking, if they say not?
Cuomo by my take is often a independent thinker and to his credit does not buy the party line. I don't agree with him on a bunch of things but I respect leadership. He has it.
the feds sucked at this from the get go. the CDC being so bad they had to put someone from the outside now to run it. Shameful that. Almost the same in that context as FEMA in Katrina. About the same level of incompetence. Good job Brownie…..you suck.
coming here…..I could live with that. There would have to be exceptions UN staffers for instance but I could live with that.
Restricting US citizens from returning completely….I would say as a citizen you could not be overtly refused entirely. It is your right as a citizen to return to here. A state as this in international commerce travel and such I think a state could not outwardly refuse entry of US citizens. Travel of this sort is usually a fed right. When here in the US the state however may require what they want of them within the law.
That's my opinion
that Dallas eventually did get right. They took those people stuck in that contaminated apt when it became public their conditions….and put them in a home of some sort…I think it had a religious affiliation the home.
In quarantine but able to communicate with other get food do things we all do.
So that they should in that follow Dallas's example but in only that. Other than that Dallas tells you only what not to do.
It could easily be done in NYC volunteers or any number of religiously based organizations. Worst case and you have to put them in a public facility of some sort, but really the numbers exposed are probably quite small. Likely it would not have to be a public home thing.
Slow clap for Cuomo & Christie pandering to the teeming masses. That'll only discourage doctors from going over & fighting the disease, in turn making things over there even worse.
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
I think you need to read some more...
I don't think its hard at all to get the disease. The spread in Africa attests to that. Maybe you mean it's *unlikely* people will get the disease, given quarantines, contact tracing, PPE, and proper protocols, the fact that most or all infectious people will be symptomatic and more readily spotted, that you need close contact with fluid and that's rarer over here? But if all that fails and you do come into contact with fluids and the virus, then becoming infected and sick isn't all that difficult.
Secondary, don't bang your head too much. As noted earlier and in other threads, there is data showing that in some species the virus is transmitted through the air. Not in humans so far as we know, but it's still airborne transmission in those cases. Further, also as pointed out previously, sneezing and coughing often results in fluid spray. So whereas the virus isn't floating around in the air, it can potentially be transmitted to nearby people through the air via fluids in the absence of actual physical contact.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive and snide ostrich when there actually are concerns and precautions that need to be present. Just hiding your heard and ridiculing the problem, which the people in charge don't appear to be doing, could exacerbate it.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
I think you need to read some more...
I don't think its hard at all to get the disease. The spread in Africa attests to that. Maybe you mean it's *unlikely* people will get the disease, given quarantines, contact tracing, PPE, and proper protocols, the fact that most or all infectious people will be symptomatic and more readily spotted, that you need close contact with fluid and that's rarer over here? But if all that fails and you do come into contact with fluids and the virus, then becoming infected and sick isn't all that difficult.
Secondary, don't bang your head too much. As noted earlier and in other threads, there is data showing that in some species the virus is transmitted through the air. Not in humans so far as we know, but it's still airborne transmission in those cases. Further, also as pointed out previously, sneezing and coughing often results in fluid spray. So whereas the virus isn't floating around in the air, it can potentially be transmitted to nearby people through the air via fluids in the absence of actual physical contact.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive and snide ostrich when there actually are concerns and precautions that need to be present. Just hiding your heard and ridiculing the problem, which the people in charge don't appear to be doing, could exacerbate it.
Bill, I respect your opinion. And perhaps I have gone to the other extreme, but the misinformation about this disease and how hard it is to get frustrates the living hell out of me. I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this disease, but how hard it is to get. You're not going to get it unless you come into contact with an individual who has the disease and their vomit, blood, stool, etc.
And I don't have respect for politicians pandering to the misinformation/hysteria. Numerous experts-people a helluva lot smarter than me & you-have said a quarantine would have the opposite effect of what it's intended to do. It only discourages people who are needed to go to Africa to fight this disease. And if they don't, it's only going to get worse. Cuomo, who is running for reelection, and Christie, who is all but a declared '16 candidate, are pandering to the masses.
BillL has been a great resource on these threads. Â
As noted earlier and in other threads, there is data showing that in some species the virus is transmitted through the air. Not in humans so far as we know, but it's still airborne transmission in those cases. Further, also as pointed out previously, sneezing and coughing often results in fluid spray. So whereas the virus isn't floating around in the air, it can potentially be transmitted to nearby people through the air via fluids in the absence of actual physical contact.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive
Agree with this. Seems we always go to extremes, eh?
Up until last week I was under the impression that it was as difficult to obtain as AIDS (the whole bodily fluid part, and that many are talking about how difficult it is to contract- my fault for not doing my own research, but whatever) and was probably just as dismissive.
Now that I know it's possible to get from someone sneezing on you, I've been paying more attention.
I'm far from a panic or wanting to build a wall around the continental US, but most definitely am watching. Happily, it looks like the medical industry in NY is getting it right. As long as the rest of the big cities follow suit, we should be fine. But folks do need to be vigilant.
I never mentioned Fox News Big Al. You're confusing me with another poster.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
I agree. All cable news was pretty hard to watch for awhile.
Even worse, it seems to me that there's a decent sized population of folks that get their news from their Facebook feed, which IMO is by far more misinformation than cable news.
Luckily, I get all of my news from BBI. It really helps me keep an eye on FLA.
I never mentioned Fox News Big Al. You're confusing me with another poster.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
I agree. All cable news was pretty hard to watch for awhile.
Even worse, it seems to me that there's a decent sized population of folks that get their news from their Facebook feed, which IMO is by far more misinformation than cable news.
Luckily, I get all of my news from BBI. It really helps me keep an eye on FLA.
My Facebook feed is valuable. I get daily reports on the new evidence that will Obama impeached, put Hillary in jail or prove that all Republicans are heartless thugs.
So probably Christie and Cuomo are being stronger than they should Â
And maybe skirting the threshold of being alarmist...
It's a real problem but not a major threat except perhaps for health care workers and lab workers, absent proper procedures and PPE.
But admin people IMO need to assuage public fears and provide reassurance *without* misleading them with false reassurances. You could argue Christie might lack on the reassurance part, but I would also suggest that the Feds went to far in the opposite direction. They made flat statements that this or that couldn't happen in order to prevent a panic. Maybe they believed them...they're not Ebola experts, they're inexperienced and many are more acedmicians working in the world of theory where things go as designed and people's choices and behaviors don't factor or don't stray outside instructions. Whatever the reason, when you make flat statements that this or that can't happen...and then it does...people lose trust and you get more panic rather than less. I think the Feds, especially cdc, did that to a certain extent.
People are not very smart but I think by and large they can deal with the truth. But the truth has to be presented softLY and in a positive fashion. Straying too much in either direction does a disservice imo
a)people ripping governments ill thought out policy and weak preparedness on this for the first few months, prior to Quomo, with
b) people totally freaking out about a pandemic here.
Two different groups: It has been too easy for the ironically self appointed smarties to dismiss the first group by adressing them as if they are the second, in a well travelled sequence of non-discourse intended on maintaining the vacuity status quo for another year or so.
RE: to increase rationality we could start with ceasing the conflation Â
a)people ripping governments ill thought out policy and weak preparedness on this for the first few months, prior to Quomo, with
b) people totally freaking out about a pandemic here.
Two different groups: It has been too easy for the ironically self appointed smarties to dismiss the first group by adressing them as if they are the second, in a well travelled sequence of non-discourse intended on maintaining the vacuity status quo for another year or so.
Ageed. You should stop freaking out about a pandemic.
look at Patient Zero in texas
he was denied admittance to the hospital and only came back when he had full blown symptoms of Ebola
and yet none of this family have gotten ebola , noone he happen to walk past or whatever have gotten ebola
the only people to have gotten the disease from him were two nurse knee deep in this bodily fluids while he was in the height of his illness.
that implies that ebola IS very very hard to get if proper precautions are implemented
This Doctor self quarantined and when he had a slight fever 100.3 he informed the authorities and went right to the hospital
i would be shocked it
1. he did not make a complete recover
2 . he somehow infected anyone he came in contact with before his admittance
as far as Obama and his leadership
there are GeoPolitical reasons why a President does not want to ban travel from another country - especially West Africa where China is trying to expand their sphere of influence
Just google China and Ebola to see that China's has donated tens of millions of dollars to these countries to fight Ebola and trust me china is not doing it for charitable reasons .
And these GeoPolitical reasons are something that a Governor does not have to worry about . So surprise Cuomo and Christine implement quarantines .
But if you think Cuomo and Christine acted on their own with this Quarantine without the implied consent of the Federal Government then you are dreaming .
and as far as my fox news comment it is because everyone on this board is parroting fox news talking points to the tee.
But if you think Cuomo and Christie acted on their own with this Quarantine without the implied consent of the Federal Government then you are dreaming .
and as far as my fox news comment it is because everyone on this board is parroting fox news talking points to the tee.
The gonernors are only responsible for their states and the people of those states. West Africa means little to them.
Slow clap for Cuomo & Christie pandering to the teeming masses. That'll only discourage doctors from going over & fighting the disease, in turn making things over there even worse.
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
Oh puhlese. It makes perfect sense to control people coming in from ebola plagued areas. Especially those who have been treating patients. It's typical medical protocol. The doctors understand this. If anything, it's the people that don't want to have travel restrictions and quarantines that are pandering to politics.
SHANGHAI—China unveiled new measures aimed at preventing the spread of the deadly Ebola virus in the nation, including a joint announcement with the International Olympic Committee on the eve of Saturday's opening of the Nanjing 2014 Youth Olympic Games that athletes from affected countries won't be permitted to compete.
In a statement Friday that didn't name nations, the IOC and China's government said two athletes from the affected region won't be permitted to compete in combat sports, while a ban on competitors participating in pool events will apply to one athlete.
It said all athletes from the region will be monitored for "temperature and physical assessment," without providing their numbers. Media reports this week quoted government officials from Sierra Leone and Nigeria expressing displeasure at restrictions their athletes faced in China.
China's state-run Xinhua News Agency cited an Olympic committee official as saying that Sierra Leone and Liberia have indicated they won't participate, while Guinea hasn't made its position clear.
A Nigerian official said his country's athletes had been prescreened and that he was critical of "poor treatment" of his country's athletes in China and said they won't compete.
Patrick Omorodion, media assistant to Nigeria's sports minister, said the minister "has directed that the athletes be withdrawn and return to Nigeria because we would not want to expose our youth athletes to such treatment."
China also said that from Saturday new border controls will include stricter inspections on inbound airlines from regions affected by Ebola, while stepped-up sanitary measures will apply to incoming vehicles and goods. The government also warned its citizens about the risks of travel to affected regions.
but why not have peoples who have had contact with ebola patients, self quarantine if local(with check ins) or a stay in a more restricted environment if not able to do so…..
The cost on that doc, all the equipment peoples places and things having to be checked…it makes way more sense to have one person self quarantine rather than go through all that.
WE can go from one extreme to the other here. Hysteria is not warranted but real concrete actions to provide a least discomfort avenue for the citizens of both NY and NJ….just makes sense.
And peoples out of this country who have had or admit to exposure to ebola patients……why exactly do we have a responsibility to admit them to the US. There are some qualifiers to that such perhaps as UN employes or representatives of those nations, in any event they can be quarantined the same as our citizens are.
Because there are some who are hysterical to the issue does not in the inverse allow this thing is not any sort of threat..it is and remains so.
I applaud both Christie and Cuomo on this. Not once twice but three times….good for you governors. Think Texas would have perhaps been better off if their governor had done some similar things to direct things there? Seems some direction was needed few would say it went as planned. But I didn't hear of any.
.
The CDC has plainly failed on this. If not one would have to ask..exactly why a outsider was not put in charge of it? ONe has and one then has to admit what went on in the past did not work.
The states have no right to deny citizens returning to the US. They have every right to quarantine those citizens if they deem necessary. It is not the feds who are paying the Fire Dept the nurses and hospitals for every one who enters not quarantined and then needs to be treated, nor is it them who can pay shop owners whose business will be affected if this thing gets out of control in NJ or NYC.
there are no not a one direct flights from west africa to the US, they all require stopovers transfers. So the banning of flights from those areas is some politicians dream as none come from there.
Banning the people in general all of them from coming here…..I haven't heard that mentioned. Those exposed to ebola certainly. Why exactly not?
Our peoples coming back here of course we can't do that they are citizens and one part of citizenship is you may return to your homeland it is a constitutional right. Quarantined here when they come back…certainly that is allowable and legal. States localities have quarantined peoples since the days of typhoid Mary years and years ago. Legal it is and generally a local or state action.
Rarely used as we have few epidemics, but certainly legal and as Cuomo and Christie there when necessary.
can do absolutely nothing at all to stop or make these quarantines. If you can make a argument Christie is checking with the federal government or Obama on his or their OK to do this…..I can only say you either do not know Christie or not know you constitution. States have rights and they both are exercising them.
The fed has nothing to do with this at all absolutely nothing.
Denying entry into the US by citizens of non citizens of course that is a fed responsibility as it always has been. Commerce which includes movement is a fed responsibility for regulation as per the constitution. Quarantined once here….fully a state decision. could be a fed decision but sans that a state decision.
The fed really should deny entry of those from other countries to the US who have concrete exposure records but sans that the states can quarantine them when here if that is their choice. The states legally could confine them to the airports if that was their decision to do so for that matter.
If Obama wants to do something that would perhaps be a good thing to start on in this regard.
makes no sense whatsoever, has anyone thought about that?
A hospital ship, might make some sense perhaps, money to pay docs willing to go there, aid to their internal hospital systems, I can see all that….just throw the military at the issue…..put our soldiers at risk…exactly why that?
Stupid. Who is Cuba sending..docs not military. that may make sense, send docs willing to go there there. Pay them for that certainly if they are willing to go.
Why are our soldiers always dispensable? And really are they best suited to the task?
with the quarantines of NY NJ and now Illinois. So I doubt these governors checked with them. We can't rely on self quarantines because it's been show that these medical personnel don't take it seriously. And even if it's unlikely that they could infect someone before they are very sick, we don't know for sure and the virus is just too dangerous to take that chance.
Meanwhile, the military has already said that the guys that go to West Africa that have 'elevated exposure risk' which means they had contact with Ebola patients, will be quarantined afterwards, so I'm not really sure why medical personnel are any different.
Yeah, it's small, you dumb fuck.
^^^This^^^
You are very dumb.
Despite the panic raised by the media, we're still talking about single digits. The epidemic being forecasted by fear-mongering idiots hasn't happened, nor will it.
Yeah, it's small, you dumb fuck.
^^^and this^^^
Everything sounds textbook.
It shows a bit what a joke was that hospital in Dallas. Knew he was in Africa and still sent him home with ebola symptoms 2 nurses down with the illness pictures showing them in inadequate protective gear….could they have done worse. Taken him blood and smeared it around the ER I guess aside that no.
This to the credit of NYC their FD and hospitals….at least right now sounds textbook Kudos to them.
He's a muslim and a liar. If I were you, I'd dig a hole with some campbell soup and hide out until we all die.
You are just embarrassing yourself - the guy risked his life to save some of the poorest and sickest people on the planet, was likely elbow deep in diseased awfulness and may pay the ultimate price.
And your first thought is an irrelevant, douchey, cheap shot?
m sure that poor guy in Dallas he was taking bunches of them as that is what you take with those type symptoms. But they hurt not help with Ebola.
Awesome.
Sounds like you've been tag teamed to me :-)
Dudes a poet. A lyricist. Rhymes son. Rhymes.
Hospital stocks took a big hit took last week and have now gone back up. So this will set it back a bit but I expect not to much. It was just so well handled it may actually help. The doc didn't see any patients since back so he sort of self isolated a bit. probably he knew he was at risk and acted properly as he should have, not jetting around the country.
The general public…..I think mostly it is media. A bit us but mostly them. They blew it way out of proportion. In the end it had to fall back in on itself. Mostly it was nonsense…..mutation…geese louise not here with a handful of cases…AFrica perhaps.
what people died?
what people died?
So you are full of shit is what you are saying right? Good, thanks for clearing that up.
hope everyone is safe.
I'm hoping this guy is just being a dipshit and blowing smoke...
Even Ebola can't survive there.
2. You become an REO Speedwagon fan
I don't know what is worse.
Mr Duncan didn't get Ebola in the USA, but don't let that get in the way of your stupid, stupid argument.
Iv's being available our knowledge base improving we will probably with time have a real good success rate.
In any event they will probably quarantine only his girl friend and close contacts is my guess. This will not I think be like Dallas.
Rich bringing the fuckin' heat
For a man who has no idea how to use punctuation, that seems like a weird question to ask.
Yeah, that happens with medical conditions too.
So little suggests this guy was symptomatic on a plane. Symptomatic prior to transport to the hospital is possible as he said he felt sluggish but probably not. He would know when he got a fever.
Everything sounds textbook.
It shows a bit what a joke was that hospital in Dallas. Knew he was in Africa and still sent him home with ebola symptoms 2 nurses down with the illness pictures showing them in inadequate protective gear….could they have done worse. Taken him blood and smeared it around the ER I guess aside that no.
This to the credit of NYC their FD and hospitals….at least right now sounds textbook Kudos to them.
To be fair to Dallas, NY learned a lot from them. Three weeks ago, NYC had no clue either.
I'm not to worried about this guy at all. Like I said NYC did it right, kudos to them.
Four people they say will be quarantined.
They are making excuses for Dallas..Dallas sucked plain flat sucked at their exposure.
Night and day…congrats to all New Yorkers you have a lot to be proud of here it seems.
I mean I knew about it, why would they not or at least be telling their nurses about it to watch for it. We all knew it was there even a month ago.
Nah….I think they sucked at it. NYC would have done better even a month ago is my guess.
Can't fight this feeling
take it on the run.
Pretty Amazing success
I didn't look at Texas but my guess is the same. I've lived in the NYC area years ago and had occasion at times and I was always OK with the treatment.
Here not so much. In NM it had to do with years ago medicaid reimbursements to docs…all the good ones left as they were just to low. Texas my guess is with their health care system it is about the same. More uninsured than anywhere else I suspect Texas is a lot like NM.
Just yes conjecture but my guess is those in NYC are so used to it they don't appreciate it so much. Things really suck in some parts of the country. Really suck.
This is the perfect terrorist delivery device sitting in open fields in diseased ravaged countries with broken down infrastructure. Wrap some martyrs up in it and put em on planes all over the world before they become symptomatic in 8-10 days.
Ugh, just so much horrible stuff in the news right now.
So basically as they cremate those who suffer from this thing and the heart of Isis is the extreme muslim religion….I'd guess they would not do it. All going in would know they would be cremated and not buried and likely not within 24 hours as they require.
So I don't see that happening.
This is the perfect terrorist delivery device sitting in open fields in diseased ravaged countries with broken down infrastructure. Wrap some martyrs up in it and put em on planes all over the world before they become symptomatic in 8-10 days.
Ugh, just so much horrible stuff in the news right now.
Now THAT is some scary shit right there. I bet your not the first one to think of it either.
Ouch.
Everyone is saying…well it is just that Dallas was the first one….I say no we knew of ebola in Africa about 4 or so months ago and first for us was not first at all. I knew about it probably you knew of the threat a month ago…why not the Dallas hospital and admin, who did not do any training for the threat.
The CDC did not help but that hospital performed miserably to my opinion, even considering first case.
They suck I would not send anyone to that hospital if one could avoid it. How much are they not getting caught on? It is just by chance they were caught with untrained personal and inadequate care by this one thing. How many more before when the spotlight was not shining?
So basically as they cremate those who suffer from this thing and the heart of Isis is the extreme muslim religion….I'd guess they would not do it. All going in would know they would be cremated and not buried and likely not within 24 hours as they require.
So I don't see that happening.
Not sure if this was a response, but people are avoiding going to the hospital and dying at home because of forced cremations. But that's a new implement. They've been piling corpses into marked and unmarked graves (along with all the medical waste). Dogs were eating it. Contamination was flowing eight into the river.
The disposal process is not safe, secure, or even completely known to anyone. The dead are under reported.
Just sneezing and coughing all over a subway car is plenty good if you're symptomatic.
Link - ( New Window )
Ok, go find a victim and "care" for him. The first case was just reported in Mali. That's wolf country. Responsible for allowing safe passage of Libyan arms out of the country.
This is a wmd if someone were able to effectuate the proper sequence of events.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm very damn happy to not be doing that anymore.
I never saw anyone REALLY clean those cars other than pickup some trash.
In any event there are many reasons for the spread in Africa. Ebola stays active in a dead body for quite some time. IN Africa like as not it is the family who takes care of the dead body. There may be a bunch of family involved in that, cleaning and dressing the dead body for a funeral. And at the funeral like as not they are touching the dead body as well. That likely is by my take the reason early on for the rapid spread there. Here there is little chance of that.
Eventually they will get it right over there Nigeria already has.
Speaking of NYC as opposed to Dallas NYC FD has something in the range of 30 Haz tec units which was one used with the doc's being transported.
NYC has had them in place for years and years. Trained personal and equipment to handle exactly this type of thing. And they did so admirably. NYC peoples don't I think perhaps, really appreciate in how cutting edge they are in many ways there.All aspects of medical treatment.
I'll be clearer. It is a known fact that the Ebola dead have been piled into unmarked and marked graves. Many of which already seep into the river. Medical waste disposal is no better. It was only recently where cremation was instituted as an order.
Soooo....find some fresh Ebola waste or an Ebola victim. Expose a bunch of jihadis to the virus and get em on planes fast before they are symptomatic. Cruise through the border without any infection or fever and sit tight until it's time to go.
As they become symptomatic, get on a subway and start coughing and spitting and spreading the fluids around.
You think that's far fetched?
I'm a bit confused how a 103.5 fever pops overnight though. Bowlmore Lanes isn't that fun compared to Guinea.
Btw, most of these psychos are converts who have no concept of the real teachings of the religion. It's not even on the radar - these guys in Canada are prime example, but so is isis teaching bastardized versions of the Quran.
You're just trying to be a pip. I don't watch Fox and don't need to. I'll allow you to be blind to a well constructed plan which would be pretty easy to execute.
This thing of getting infected and then as result being cremated and coming to a heathen country like the US where likely you would not be buried for a week or so, who knows how long….no. these are religious extremists who want to send the world back to the time of MOhammed…they don't do things contrary to their religion. It is all about their interpretations of their religion. Moderates here they perhaps though Muslim may not worry about the 24 hours thing. Fundametalists certainly do.
So I would not worry. Media saying that I would say like with the virus mutating here…they are fueling the fire of fear to sell coverage and increase ratings.
This thing of getting infected and then as result being cremated and coming to a heathen country like the US where likely you would not be buried for a week or so, who knows how long….no. these are religious extremists who want to send the world back to the time of MOhammed…they don't do things contrary to their religion. It is all about their interpretations of their religion. Moderates here they perhaps though Muslim may not worry about the 24 hours thing. Fundametalists certainly do.
So I would not worry. Media saying that I would say like with the virus mutating here…they are fueling the fire of fear to sell coverage and increase ratings.
Please stop telling me not to worry. 1) if I wanted to worry, I would. I have no reason to and I'm not. 2) im merely presenting a hypothetical scenario based on facts on the ground. If you don't want to play that's fine. 3) the only thing Muslim about these guys is in name only. They prey on the uneducated, indoctrinate them, and teach them a bastardized version of the holy book. The converts who self radicalize never understood it in the first place. Anything about burial rites always is after mission. Don't buy the religious war.
If not they can say anything and we know not to not believe it. This ebola and its consequences to the faithful who believe as they do…take my word on it or ask some of them yourself if you have access….they would not do such a thing in such a way.
Bingo!
People with jet lag feel sluggish for a few days. Like as not that was the accountable reason.
Never say never but it seems unlikely the scenario described.
Four people were what I heard were going to be quarantined. Probably a couple more as things go I would guess. Like in Dallas…no I don't expect that.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
You don't just get to 103 in the span of time he gives. You are right that the number for Ebola is currently 101.5. Don't know if this guy thought he was out of the woods or it wouldn't happen to him, but why self quarantine and then break it right at the end? Did he miscount? Did he have a temperature sub 101.5 but above 100? We need to get serious here. This doctor should not have been allowed to self isolate considering the contact and proximity he was in. Coulda woulda shoulda.
New York quarantines 3 people in contact with Ebola-carrying doctor - ( New Window )
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Can I lock myself up in the basement with the DVDs and pass on the hysteria?
Do extremists really need to go through the planning and shackle themselves with the risks envolved with weaponozing this disease across the world when they could simply board a subway car with a gun or homemade explosive? It's not as if we do not have the capacity to quarentine and effectively limit the spread of the disease immediately following a potential attack, as we do. Even within the spectrum of disease, would using a virus relatively difficult to transmit really be more efficient than some of the other horrible diseases that could be harnessed to ravage the population?
Sure, I suppose that Ebola could theoretically be leveraged by a terrorist but among my chief fears of threat it would rank rather low.
Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Thank god youll be senile and irrelevant soon.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Yeah but at least wed probably be back in the playoffs.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
I still say that "a person is not contagious until symptomatic" is weak. It's a vague statement and "symptomatic is never defined. You say a fever (as do federal authorities) but that's because it is fairly early and measurable. But "feeling poorly" may also indeed be a symptom. Or, there may be something else. Fever itself is subject to individual variation that may have little to do with the extent of viremia. Fever may be suppressed artificially or by stress or by hormones.
Until someone shows me specific data linking specific symptoms, including a range of body temp, with viral blood titers or a measure of infectivity, I will be skeptical of any flat statements as to whether a person is contagious at any given point.
You may be right; but you actually don't know. Nobody does.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
Quote:
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
No, you've been throwing out idiotic posts about people being racist if they are concerned about ebola or want a travel ban. You never brought up Little Liberia at all.
Smoking cigarettes and eating bacon double cheeseburgers will kill far more Americans than Ebola or terrorism, but people are ruled by their fears rather than reason.
I agree that Texas hospital must be terrible I really don't think that transfer would have happened here.
You sound smart.
And again, Bill L is doing great work on these threads!
The reason people are upset and afraid is because the information we are getting makes no sense. No one has much confidence in what the authorities are saying or doing.
And yes, this is not a crisis yet. But the highly-concentrated dosage of snark and dismissiveness is uncalled for and very premature. No one can predict at this point how events will continue to develop. But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
What is virtually unimaginable? That one Liberian National has died in the United States from Ebola? That healthcare workers treating the infected have contracted it? (and since been cured). There is no crisis.
It's ok to be cautious and even concerned. The snark is directed at the completely IRRATIONAL response to whats happening. The spread of this disease in the US versus the panic about the spread of the disease is completely out of proportion.
Let's not forget Nina Pham is cured. Ashoka Mukpo is cured. Amber Vinson is cured. 40+ workers in contact with Thomas Duncan are cured.
Moreover, ISIS is nowhere fucking near Liberia. You think getting there is a simple walk in the park right now? Get real. You pantywaists are looking for shit to freak out about.
Everything is going to be fine. Relax.
Even IF the state of new york is as prepared as the governor says by now, (and we do need to be prepared, regardless), and even IF ....IF... nobody else (the attention whore, idiot-boy doctor partied with) gets it;
Can this city and state send the mindless, vacuous wonks in the federal executive branch of the federal government the massive follow-up and track down and medical $$$$invoice$$$$?
for not allowing for a quaranteen at the border in the first place?
and thi$$$ is for ONE guy...
NYers tend to be that way to my opinion. We won the most fantastic super bowl ever against a insurmountable team non FB weather that was unheard of in a home town that n the play offs no one ever looses to…doing a thing that sport wise is impossible totally impossible…and like as not the response by NYers is….what about next year.
NYC kudos to you you did great and deserve accolades for it.
Dallas not so much…you sucked at this all the way around.
Our success ration here in the US against this killer killer thing that kills all exposed to it appears to be about 75% or better. Anyone want to bet on this doc making it…I'd take that bet hands down.
If this thing is so so contagious how come they put that family of that guy in Dallas that guy who had projectile vomiting, back in the apt he was in by armed guard …and didn't even remove any of the infectious material in the apartment for at least 6 hours. By a armed PO they were forced to remain in the apt with the stuff. And none of them caught it. Were they infectious disease specialists who knew how to act in that….no.
It was so bad the Dallas response it was tragic. Eventually they cleaned the apt. The first comment and I remember it clearly….they are one official stated responsible for cleaning up their own household wastes….
Geeze louise…that really happened. It had nothing to do with Dallas being the first place it is that they sucked at it.
Kudos to NYC. EBola….I am not to worried about it.
Any want to take a bet on no hospital staff FD PO or others getting it from this doc…..I'd take that bet as well.
New Yorkers get used to it…you did a great great job…live with it. WEven though you want to complain about and nit pick even that….
Your response sucked in every aspect. That is just one.
Sure, if taken out of context. But this was a MD in a hot zone, providing treatment in a country with an actual outbreak. Not so unimaginable.
and why is the Uber driver in the hospital? is uber running a blowjob service as well?
AND...what was the good doctor doing during the week in west african after his medical service was over?
implication is that it took a very long time for symptoms to evolve, and that he may have caught it during his little vacation rather than during the prior service period.
long story short, experts harping on how hard it is to spread and the privacy and travel rights of people with it look increasingly wrong headed.
Truth be told my opinion is this….Africa places like that…. will use this to enable funding to help their overall health system. They have reasons as well to make this worse than it really is..economic ones. They simply largely have no health care…this is one way to get some funding so they do.
So they get attention to their health care system needs and reinforcement on the reasons why the rest of the world like the US should care.
But it pays to make this appear worse than it is. Do the raw number(not the projections) account for this amount of hysteria…flu season each year takes far more deaths than that by multiple times globally.
It is all overdone here and there but for reason it is so here and there.Different reasons but it simply is not so bad as they describe and cannot be here. For any number of reasons.
NYC this response..this shows a lot of that as to reasons. We have flat plain and simple in NYC our s&^% together on this.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond.
one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
Viruses are about 100 times smaller than avg bacteria. HEPA filters are very efficient with particles down to 0.3 microns. Unfortunately, viruses can have particle sizes 100 times smaller.
Yes, if someone is coughing, and what they are coughing up is probably blood present subsequent to internal hemorrhaging in lung tissues..and they cough some of that into your eyes mouth or nose….you will probably get ebola.
So yes in their zeal to stop mass hysteria they are a bit misleading us on these things. Lying to us they are you are right.
There is no excuse for that and I agree 100%. but they are idiots who generally don't know their A from a hole in the ground these bureaucrats who run things and tell us lies.
Truth is though despite their lies ebola is really pretty hard to get.
WE studied it years ago when it presented first 20 or so to american knowledge in those circles of infectious control.
It is not such a problem because basically like this doc getting overnight a 103 fever from nothing the night before. It's onset is so thorough and complete peoples symptomatic can not even speak nevertheless walk around spreading it by coughing on subways and such. They are to debilitated to move nevertheless walk to a subway. Some can with great effort but really when symptomatic quickly you can do nothing but lie around.
So you don't spread it so easily lying around usually in your home.
The hysteria they are lying to stop is nevertheless their lies not viable. it is generally for no good reason.
The cdc sucks like Dallas sucks at this. It is the CDC's job so that is sad but that is why poetically they had to put someone else in charge…as the CDC sucked so bad at this.
I don't know why but people really don't care that they lie and when you tell them they do on other things….generally they get real real mad….not at the Cdc but at you.
How it is….:)
They suck really suck a whole lot worse on ebola…so take that Dallas fans.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
I'm not sure if it's the same study or not, but the one I read on the pigs to monkey transfer also noted that when they did the same experiment, housing infected monkeys next to naive monkeys, there was *no* intra-species transmission.
So, it's of concern and it's thought-provoking but there is no misleading and no need to panic. It says that there can be some airborne transmission between some select species and some other select species, but, at least in non-human primates, no airborne transmission from one member of the species to another member of the same species.
Now, that all does beg the question of how you define airborne transmission. Most times when people cough there is the spray of fluid, so droplets could be spread.
Politicians of course will take credit for anything as we know.
This NYC response the media is painting it as…we learned from our first mistakes we now do better…that is the narrative we are being sold.
Nonsense…there are multiple reasons why NYC responded better per example the 30 plus tec teams they have for response and transport of patients. Does Dallas have even one. I know they have haz mat and such but to transport patients…I don't think so…maybe on paper is some plan somewhere.
The hospitals I can not speak to that but I bet my bottom dollar they are depending on training and infer structure internal to hospitals that was developed many years ago.
Can you remake the wheel in a month heck no.
Dallas you have another event in Dallas even right now…I bet they screw it up badly. Did not they move anyone infected right out of Texas anyone except that poor guy who died that is…his mistake staying in dallas.
Dallas zero rest of country 100 success rate%
Dallas sucks at this.The media narrative is BS
Some poor guy from AFrica knows not if he is coming or going…you can stay in Dallas ;)
One dies and two live…go figure.
NYC want to bet he stays in NYC and lives. They could move him where he would prefer, but NYC if he stays there I bet firmly and securely…he lives. Dallas I would not take that bet.
Geez Louise... - ( New Window )
As i said, there have been at least 3 studies where there was airborne transmission. One in '95, one in '12 and don't remember where or when the other but think it may have been '10.
Now i really have to go. If I have time later, i will get more details on the studies. Have a nice ebola free day everyone.
The problem is that the CDC and varied people in positions of responsibility at all levels have been using knowledge of that fact as cover for either
a) not being prepared (locally in some areas) or having
b) poorly considered policy
anyway.
we want to see them have prioities in the right place, in a case like this, and considering post 9/11 priorities and resources, from the get go.
and not have to play wack-a-mole.
and keeping in mind that this did not start today...it has been many months.
Can ebola be alive in the air like a flu can for quite some time so you inhale minute particles and then they infect you after they sneeze or cough …certainly not.
Can you cough up a spot of blood then spew that out as some are inclined to do when they cough forcefully into someones now ear eye or mouth…yes as well.
But saying it is not airborne transmissible leads people to think like nurses in Dallas did…..I don't need full protective covering I may leave my neck exposed….so it can lead to bad things.
The general meaning is not perhaps the literal medical meaning but the use of the literal medical meaning in a general context is a lie. A good intention is behind it to prevent the needless hysteria, but it is a form of lying to the general public. to the general public a person coughing into your eye a bit of blood…it is airborne transmittable that thing.
when the governor says it...ok, looks like he did his part, what is within his purview.
They suck as bad as Dallas which is why they were basically taken out of the ballgame a other person is basically now running the CDC. Not a medical person but we can hope someone with common sense. Evidently it was quite lacking over there.
They hurt credibility in many ways when they commit not overt but perhaps covert lies to the american public…like here people come to find out.
Found out how much do they trust them on the next thing?
They want the public to think that and they should, not worry but the nurses internalized that and did as well and treated this guy without full protective gear…they left their necks exposed.
The hospital should have trained prior as NYC obviously did. Bill for one attests to that.
The NYC thing was not a accident nor just because we have learned from Dallas…that is media pap. Docs nurses Fire depts they train have equipment and are generally ready in NYC. I bet a brush up is all they did in this month. It is obvious they were ready to go.
The CDC were changing their guidelines virtually every day. This when they knew of it four now five months ago and having plenty of time to prepare for it coming here.
It is amazing how badly they sucked at this.
Years and years I am quite amazed most of the old old crowd are still here.
Nice hearing from peoples like you especially who as I recall were always enjoyable to speak with, without exception.
Your memory is quite exceptional as well ;)
Link - ( New Window )
Maybe this is what the bama meant by saying we were 'in for a learning moment'. yeah he was...
NY Times:
''
New York and New Jersey Tighten Ebola Screenings at Airports
By MARC SANTORAOCT. 24, 2014
The governors of New York and New Jersey announced Friday afternoon that they were ordering all people entering the country through two area airports who had direct contact with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea to be quarantined.
The announcement comes one day after an American doctor, who had worked in Guinea and returned to New York City earlier in October, tested positive for Ebola and became the first New York patient of the deadly virus.
“A voluntary Ebola quarantine is not enough,” said Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York. “This is too serious a public health situation.”
Outlined in a late afternoon news conference, the new protocols raised a host of questions about how, exactly, the screening process would work and who, exactly, it would target. The two airports in question are Kennedy International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport.
Medical personnel returning from Ebola-stricken countries to New York or New Jersey will be automatically quarantined, officials said Friday afternoon.
Dr. Spencer was in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital Center on Friday afternoon, the city’s health commissioner, Dr. Mary T. Bassett, said at the news conference.
The Blue Bottle, a cafe in a former loading bay in the shadow of the High Line that Dr. Spencer visited before developing a fever, was allowed to reopen on Friday after clearing a city inspection.
Follow live developments on City Room »
It was also taken without consulting the New York City health department, according to a senior city official.
Earlier in the day, the White House sidestepped questions about whether a quarantine of health care workers was being considered. Instead, officials defended the procedures the administration has put in place...''
The media does not seem to get it. This is not a screening or a putting of peoples somewhere as I read it. It puts the requirement of law for all those so exposed to do the right thing, which is self quarantine.
That way thought…this is excellent. If they deny entry and all that that is counter productive to the thing of control. But legally certainly why not so exposed be forced by law to quarantine.
I agree 100% This doc good doc he is for what he did…he needed to self quarantine. and he could have. They have to make facilities available for those who would do this…so it may be a large undertaking. But the expenses on the other side if they do not…..way exceed those costs.
Enforceable no it is not. Who is to say who tells the truth. But 99% of the time the law will find most peoples truthful in this.
How would they eat for one? Those countries are not in the business of feeding foreign nationals. Where would they stay for another?
They will here have to make some sort of accommodation for those who cannot self quarantine. Most probably can self quarantine. It does not have to be complete isolation before symptoms present if they do at all.
Denying them back would have not been right for citizens, they have done nothing wrong.
what we have done so far is the exact opposite, barely helping at all (until this month) and yet also leaving our own cities exposed out of misplaced motives.
Sounds like a POW camp, disagreeable places those. Just being in that country sucks nevertheless being there 21 more days then you have to.
Disagree let them back self quarantine or if not possible give them a place like they did finally in Dallas where they can stay like a home environment.
Little risk to that. Symptomatic sure isolate them immediately and entirely.
You make it punitive like a camp…they will go out of the country to another by maybe bus, jet out of there and then say they were not in those countries. Or were in there but really stayed in this other. The passport stamp says the country they jetted out of. There may not even be stamped going between african countries.
There are just to many ways to hide where they were and who they interacted with. Some they could prove like this doc but who would do the checking, if they say not?
So they would lie if we made it hard on them.
Lie I certainly would, take my chances. Catch me what do they do quarantine me? that is happening anyway.
So no they have to make it reasonable.
i would go even a bit farther, but it is not a small thing that 2 states are now out ahead of the feds on this.
This is to his and all involved their credit.
proud that a new yorker, The Quomo, at least did - something
we need leaders who are willing to push on this.
the harsher he is on it the more popular he will become!
Restricting US citizens from returning completely….I would say as a citizen you could not be overtly refused entirely. It is your right as a citizen to return to here. A state as this in international commerce travel and such I think a state could not outwardly refuse entry of US citizens. Travel of this sort is usually a fed right. When here in the US the state however may require what they want of them within the law.
That's my opinion
But I happen to agree.
In quarantine but able to communicate with other get food do things we all do.
So that they should in that follow Dallas's example but in only that. Other than that Dallas tells you only what not to do.
It could easily be done in NYC volunteers or any number of religiously based organizations. Worst case and you have to put them in a public facility of some sort, but really the numbers exposed are probably quite small. Likely it would not have to be a public home thing.
It certainly does.
With the help of the reverse vampires.
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
Please expand. Or are you just trying to get in some cheap political shots at the president?
But I happen to agree.
What the hell does Hillary Clinton have to do with this? Why is she even being brought up? Oh, I forgot that's high up on the talking points.
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you guys need to turn off the fox news SNL
Yep. We need to get all our news from MSNBC.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
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In comment 11939340 giantfanboy said:
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you guys need to turn off the fox news SNL
Yep. We need to get all our news from MSNBC.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
I think you need to read some more...
I don't think its hard at all to get the disease. The spread in Africa attests to that. Maybe you mean it's *unlikely* people will get the disease, given quarantines, contact tracing, PPE, and proper protocols, the fact that most or all infectious people will be symptomatic and more readily spotted, that you need close contact with fluid and that's rarer over here? But if all that fails and you do come into contact with fluids and the virus, then becoming infected and sick isn't all that difficult.
Secondary, don't bang your head too much. As noted earlier and in other threads, there is data showing that in some species the virus is transmitted through the air. Not in humans so far as we know, but it's still airborne transmission in those cases. Further, also as pointed out previously, sneezing and coughing often results in fluid spray. So whereas the virus isn't floating around in the air, it can potentially be transmitted to nearby people through the air via fluids in the absence of actual physical contact.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive and snide ostrich when there actually are concerns and precautions that need to be present. Just hiding your heard and ridiculing the problem, which the people in charge don't appear to be doing, could exacerbate it.
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In comment 11939426 Big Al said:
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In comment 11939340 giantfanboy said:
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you guys need to turn off the fox news SNL
Yep. We need to get all our news from MSNBC.
MSNBC has been a joke with as well. All media outlets have. They have done a horrible job educating the public on this disease and how f*cking hard it is to get it. People at work yesterday were saying you can get it airborne. I wanted to bang my head on the desk.
I think you need to read some more...
I don't think its hard at all to get the disease. The spread in Africa attests to that. Maybe you mean it's *unlikely* people will get the disease, given quarantines, contact tracing, PPE, and proper protocols, the fact that most or all infectious people will be symptomatic and more readily spotted, that you need close contact with fluid and that's rarer over here? But if all that fails and you do come into contact with fluids and the virus, then becoming infected and sick isn't all that difficult.
Secondary, don't bang your head too much. As noted earlier and in other threads, there is data showing that in some species the virus is transmitted through the air. Not in humans so far as we know, but it's still airborne transmission in those cases. Further, also as pointed out previously, sneezing and coughing often results in fluid spray. So whereas the virus isn't floating around in the air, it can potentially be transmitted to nearby people through the air via fluids in the absence of actual physical contact.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive and snide ostrich when there actually are concerns and precautions that need to be present. Just hiding your heard and ridiculing the problem, which the people in charge don't appear to be doing, could exacerbate it.
Bill, I respect your opinion. And perhaps I have gone to the other extreme, but the misinformation about this disease and how hard it is to get frustrates the living hell out of me. I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this disease, but how hard it is to get. You're not going to get it unless you come into contact with an individual who has the disease and their vomit, blood, stool, etc.
And I don't have respect for politicians pandering to the misinformation/hysteria. Numerous experts-people a helluva lot smarter than me & you-have said a quarantine would have the opposite effect of what it's intended to do. It only discourages people who are needed to go to Africa to fight this disease. And if they don't, it's only going to get worse. Cuomo, who is running for reelection, and Christie, who is all but a declared '16 candidate, are pandering to the masses.
It really is remote that we would have an outbreak and I agree that there is hyperbole, unwarranted panic, and paranoia. But IMO you are being an overly dismissive
Agree with this. Seems we always go to extremes, eh?
Up until last week I was under the impression that it was as difficult to obtain as AIDS (the whole bodily fluid part, and that many are talking about how difficult it is to contract- my fault for not doing my own research, but whatever) and was probably just as dismissive.
Now that I know it's possible to get from someone sneezing on you, I've been paying more attention.
I'm far from a panic or wanting to build a wall around the continental US, but most definitely am watching. Happily, it looks like the medical industry in NY is getting it right. As long as the rest of the big cities follow suit, we should be fine. But folks do need to be vigilant.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
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I never mentioned Fox News Big Al. You're confusing me with another poster.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
I agree. All cable news was pretty hard to watch for awhile.
Even worse, it seems to me that there's a decent sized population of folks that get their news from their Facebook feed, which IMO is by far more misinformation than cable news.
Luckily, I get all of my news from BBI. It really helps me keep an eye on FLA.
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In comment 11939435 SanFranGiantsFan said:
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I never mentioned Fox News Big Al. You're confusing me with another poster.
Actually, the only dude who has impressed me with Ebola is FOX's Shep Smith, who had the balls to rip the media's Ebola coverage.
I agree. All cable news was pretty hard to watch for awhile.
Even worse, it seems to me that there's a decent sized population of folks that get their news from their Facebook feed, which IMO is by far more misinformation than cable news.
Luckily, I get all of my news from BBI. It really helps me keep an eye on FLA.
It's a real problem but not a major threat except perhaps for health care workers and lab workers, absent proper procedures and PPE.
But admin people IMO need to assuage public fears and provide reassurance *without* misleading them with false reassurances. You could argue Christie might lack on the reassurance part, but I would also suggest that the Feds went to far in the opposite direction. They made flat statements that this or that couldn't happen in order to prevent a panic. Maybe they believed them...they're not Ebola experts, they're inexperienced and many are more acedmicians working in the world of theory where things go as designed and people's choices and behaviors don't factor or don't stray outside instructions. Whatever the reason, when you make flat statements that this or that can't happen...and then it does...people lose trust and you get more panic rather than less. I think the Feds, especially cdc, did that to a certain extent.
People are not very smart but I think by and large they can deal with the truth. But the truth has to be presented softLY and in a positive fashion. Straying too much in either direction does a disservice imo
a)people ripping governments ill thought out policy and weak preparedness on this for the first few months, prior to Quomo, with
b) people totally freaking out about a pandemic here.
Two different groups: It has been too easy for the ironically self appointed smarties to dismiss the first group by adressing them as if they are the second, in a well travelled sequence of non-discourse intended on maintaining the vacuity status quo for another year or so.
a)people ripping governments ill thought out policy and weak preparedness on this for the first few months, prior to Quomo, with
b) people totally freaking out about a pandemic here.
Two different groups: It has been too easy for the ironically self appointed smarties to dismiss the first group by adressing them as if they are the second, in a well travelled sequence of non-discourse intended on maintaining the vacuity status quo for another year or so.
Ageed. You should stop freaking out about a pandemic.
in any case, it is a good thing this did not coincide with the whole South Florida Zombie Face Eating While on Bath Salts thing.
that type of contact would certainly spread it.
he was denied admittance to the hospital and only came back when he had full blown symptoms of Ebola
and yet none of this family have gotten ebola , noone he happen to walk past or whatever have gotten ebola
the only people to have gotten the disease from him were two nurse knee deep in this bodily fluids while he was in the height of his illness.
that implies that ebola IS very very hard to get if proper precautions are implemented
This Doctor self quarantined and when he had a slight fever 100.3 he informed the authorities and went right to the hospital
i would be shocked it
1. he did not make a complete recover
2 . he somehow infected anyone he came in contact with before his admittance
as far as Obama and his leadership
there are GeoPolitical reasons why a President does not want to ban travel from another country - especially West Africa where China is trying to expand their sphere of influence
Just google China and Ebola to see that China's has donated tens of millions of dollars to these countries to fight Ebola and trust me china is not doing it for charitable reasons .
And these GeoPolitical reasons are something that a Governor does not have to worry about . So surprise Cuomo and Christine implement quarantines .
But if you think Cuomo and Christine acted on their own with this Quarantine without the implied consent of the Federal Government then you are dreaming .
and as far as my fox news comment it is because everyone on this board is parroting fox news talking points to the tee.
and, also, checking....no.
But if you think Cuomo and Christie acted on their own with this Quarantine without the implied consent of the Federal Government then you are dreaming .
and as far as my fox news comment it is because everyone on this board is parroting fox news talking points to the tee.
The gonernors are only responsible for their states and the people of those states. West Africa means little to them.
Thank God somebody is parroting Fox News....
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
Oh puhlese. It makes perfect sense to control people coming in from ebola plagued areas. Especially those who have been treating patients. It's typical medical protocol. The doctors understand this. If anything, it's the people that don't want to have travel restrictions and quarantines that are pandering to politics.
In a statement Friday that didn't name nations, the IOC and China's government said two athletes from the affected region won't be permitted to compete in combat sports, while a ban on competitors participating in pool events will apply to one athlete.
It said all athletes from the region will be monitored for "temperature and physical assessment," without providing their numbers. Media reports this week quoted government officials from Sierra Leone and Nigeria expressing displeasure at restrictions their athletes faced in China.
China's state-run Xinhua News Agency cited an Olympic committee official as saying that Sierra Leone and Liberia have indicated they won't participate, while Guinea hasn't made its position clear.
A Nigerian official said his country's athletes had been prescreened and that he was critical of "poor treatment" of his country's athletes in China and said they won't compete.
Patrick Omorodion, media assistant to Nigeria's sports minister, said the minister "has directed that the athletes be withdrawn and return to Nigeria because we would not want to expose our youth athletes to such treatment."
China also said that from Saturday new border controls will include stricter inspections on inbound airlines from regions affected by Ebola, while stepped-up sanitary measures will apply to incoming vehicles and goods. The government also warned its citizens about the risks of travel to affected regions.
Link - ( New Window )
The cost on that doc, all the equipment peoples places and things having to be checked…it makes way more sense to have one person self quarantine rather than go through all that.
WE can go from one extreme to the other here. Hysteria is not warranted but real concrete actions to provide a least discomfort avenue for the citizens of both NY and NJ….just makes sense.
And peoples out of this country who have had or admit to exposure to ebola patients……why exactly do we have a responsibility to admit them to the US. There are some qualifiers to that such perhaps as UN employes or representatives of those nations, in any event they can be quarantined the same as our citizens are.
Because there are some who are hysterical to the issue does not in the inverse allow this thing is not any sort of threat..it is and remains so.
I applaud both Christie and Cuomo on this. Not once twice but three times….good for you governors. Think Texas would have perhaps been better off if their governor had done some similar things to direct things there? Seems some direction was needed few would say it went as planned. But I didn't hear of any.
.
The CDC has plainly failed on this. If not one would have to ask..exactly why a outsider was not put in charge of it? ONe has and one then has to admit what went on in the past did not work.
The states have no right to deny citizens returning to the US. They have every right to quarantine those citizens if they deem necessary. It is not the feds who are paying the Fire Dept the nurses and hospitals for every one who enters not quarantined and then needs to be treated, nor is it them who can pay shop owners whose business will be affected if this thing gets out of control in NJ or NYC.
Congrats to both governors.
Banning the people in general all of them from coming here…..I haven't heard that mentioned. Those exposed to ebola certainly. Why exactly not?
Our peoples coming back here of course we can't do that they are citizens and one part of citizenship is you may return to your homeland it is a constitutional right. Quarantined here when they come back…certainly that is allowable and legal. States localities have quarantined peoples since the days of typhoid Mary years and years ago. Legal it is and generally a local or state action.
Rarely used as we have few epidemics, but certainly legal and as Cuomo and Christie there when necessary.
The fed has nothing to do with this at all absolutely nothing.
Denying entry into the US by citizens of non citizens of course that is a fed responsibility as it always has been. Commerce which includes movement is a fed responsibility for regulation as per the constitution. Quarantined once here….fully a state decision. could be a fed decision but sans that a state decision.
The fed really should deny entry of those from other countries to the US who have concrete exposure records but sans that the states can quarantine them when here if that is their choice. The states legally could confine them to the airports if that was their decision to do so for that matter.
If Obama wants to do something that would perhaps be a good thing to start on in this regard.
A hospital ship, might make some sense perhaps, money to pay docs willing to go there, aid to their internal hospital systems, I can see all that….just throw the military at the issue…..put our soldiers at risk…exactly why that?
Stupid. Who is Cuba sending..docs not military. that may make sense, send docs willing to go there there. Pay them for that certainly if they are willing to go.
Why are our soldiers always dispensable? And really are they best suited to the task?
Meanwhile, the military has already said that the guys that go to West Africa that have 'elevated exposure risk' which means they had contact with Ebola patients, will be quarantined afterwards, so I'm not really sure why medical personnel are any different.
I guess cat got thier tounge, or they cannot compute.
China to offer $82 million in fourth round of Ebola aid - ( New Window )