The doctor started feeling sick on Tuesday and did not turn himself in until Friday. In between he rode the subway, took a Taxi and went bowling. My biggest fear for NYC (now or in the future)is that some homeless person picks it up and dies in some alley. With as dense as NYC is, Ebola could get out of control very quickly.
go jogging since he has been back. Bowling these are not things a person symptomatic with ebola can do. He was feeling sluggish but the first real fever he had was this morning 103. So likely this is the first time he was symptomatic.
People with jet lag feel sluggish for a few days. Like as not that was the accountable reason.
Never say never but it seems unlikely the scenario described.
Four people were what I heard were going to be quarantined. Probably a couple more as things go I would guess. Like in Dallas…no I don't expect that.
Why would he ignore his own health and then put others at risk. The wise guy statements on here wouldn't be so if you had close contact with the individual.
temp wise is(or was of a few days ago) 101.5. That fever in a adult not to mention 103 like this doc had this morning…you can't move around at all nevertheless go jogging or bowling.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
To me and the rest of America that attended public school Â
And faked a sick day, having a "temperature" is commonly agreed upon as breaking 100 by moms and rapscallions all over. That's common sense. This uber and Brooklyn bowl thing is a bad sign bc if Ebola doctors can be that sloppy what happens when it's regular people?
You don't just get to 103 in the span of time he gives. You are right that the number for Ebola is currently 101.5. Don't know if this guy thought he was out of the woods or it wouldn't happen to him, but why self quarantine and then break it right at the end? Did he miscount? Did he have a temperature sub 101.5 but above 100? We need to get serious here. This doctor should not have been allowed to self isolate considering the contact and proximity he was in. Coulda woulda shoulda.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
and that he wasn't really around folks once he had them. If the guy from Dallas went in and out of the hospital a couple of times before finally getting treated and only the hospital staff that were directly treating him picked something up, then I like the odds for NY.
I get that a person feeling fatigued could get that for a myriad Â
Of reasons. However, a doctor who just was in Guinea treating Ebola patients should have taken much greater precautions than he did with even a minor or innocuous symptom. He is hero for having the guts to go fight this disease in West Africa, but I am afraid his actions here were very selfish. I do wish he gets better, and I also hope he didn't put anyone at risk.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Can I lock myself up in the basement with the DVDs and pass on the hysteria?
I understand the perceived potential of leveraging this virus into a vehicle of terrorism however, as frightening as it seems, the marginal effort required to spin Ebola into a threat seems to be much greater than that of other methods.
Do extremists really need to go through the planning and shackle themselves with the risks envolved with weaponozing this disease across the world when they could simply board a subway car with a gun or homemade explosive? It's not as if we do not have the capacity to quarentine and effectively limit the spread of the disease immediately following a potential attack, as we do. Even within the spectrum of disease, would using a virus relatively difficult to transmit really be more efficient than some of the other horrible diseases that could be harnessed to ravage the population?
Sure, I suppose that Ebola could theoretically be leveraged by a terrorist but among my chief fears of threat it would rank rather low.
Um, unless you came into contact with his vomit, blood, or other bodily fluids, you're fine.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Yeah but at least wed probably be back in the playoffs.
temp wise is(or was of a few days ago) 101.5. That fever in a adult not to mention 103 like this doc had this morning…you can't move around at all nevertheless go jogging or bowling.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
I still say that "a person is not contagious until symptomatic" is weak. It's a vague statement and "symptomatic is never defined. You say a fever (as do federal authorities) but that's because it is fairly early and measurable. But "feeling poorly" may also indeed be a symptom. Or, there may be something else. Fever itself is subject to individual variation that may have little to do with the extent of viremia. Fever may be suppressed artificially or by stress or by hormones.
Until someone shows me specific data linking specific symptoms, including a range of body temp, with viral blood titers or a measure of infectivity, I will be skeptical of any flat statements as to whether a person is contagious at any given point.
You may be right; but you actually don't know. Nobody does.
but it bears repeating. In a published study last week it was reported that the mean time between becoming symptomatic (maybe contagious) and being hospitalized was 5 days and that number didn't vary between healthcare workers and non-healthcare workers. Small sample size in developed countries, obviously, but you can see glimpses of it in the reported incidents and that number might not be too far off here either.
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
No, you've been throwing out idiotic posts about people being racist if they are concerned about ebola or want a travel ban. You never brought up Little Liberia at all.
People are scared of Ebola now. So they link their fears and create a scenario where terrorists use Ebola.
Smoking cigarettes and eating bacon double cheeseburgers will kill far more Americans than Ebola or terrorism, but people are ruled by their fears rather than reason.
Sent a "patient" to the ER and a couple of the primary care sites with a note saying something like "I've just returned from west africa and I am running a fever". I heard the drills went well. I had my EVD-PPD (Ebola Virus Disease - Personal Protective Equipment) training on monday. I've had to gown up on occasion in the past but I've never used the hood and face shield before - or the double glovng. We're in upstate NY so we're fairly low risk but obviously it could happen anywhere.
I agree that Texas hospital must be terrible I really don't think that transfer would have happened here.
why there is a difference is quarantine response between this doctor and his friends? Both apparently were in close contact with at least one individual diagnosed and symptomatic with the disease, the doctor more so than the others, and yet the friends get mandatory quarantine but the doctor gets self-monitoring. If there is enough concern to quarantine the doctor's close friends, then why wasn't the doctor quarantined following his exposure in Africa?
And again, Bill L is doing great work on these threads!
for the same reason that people here who may have been exposed to Ebola patients shouldn't fly but we didn't need a travel ban for people from those countries.
The reason people are upset and afraid is because the information we are getting makes no sense. No one has much confidence in what the authorities are saying or doing.
and people have every right to be angry with him. The fact that he contracted the disease while trying to help is no excuse. He was riding the train and bowling while still within the incubation period. His behavior was arrogant and reckless. I have spoken to three different doctors today who feel even more strongly that I do that this guy was 100 percent wrong.
And yes, this is not a crisis yet. But the highly-concentrated dosage of snark and dismissiveness is uncalled for and very premature. No one can predict at this point how events will continue to develop. But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
was irresponsible on a number of levels. Even if no other person gets sick the damage done to local businesses can be irreversible. People just don't want to be in a place where "the infected" were hanging out.
But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
What is virtually unimaginable? That one Liberian National has died in the United States from Ebola? That healthcare workers treating the infected have contracted it? (and since been cured). There is no crisis.
It's ok to be cautious and even concerned. The snark is directed at the completely IRRATIONAL response to whats happening. The spread of this disease in the US versus the panic about the spread of the disease is completely out of proportion.
Let's not forget Nina Pham is cured. Ashoka Mukpo is cured. Amber Vinson is cured. 40+ workers in contact with Thomas Duncan are cured.
The fever was actually 100.3 F, not 103 F, and he reported the fever and likely ebola exposure at first sign. Likelihood of him being contagious before he went into quarantine is very, very low. Moreover, survival rates of patients receiving plasma serum from recovered patients will probably top 90%, and the NIH just commenced human tests on a vaccine.
Moreover, ISIS is nowhere fucking near Liberia. You think getting there is a simple walk in the park right now? Get real. You pantywaists are looking for shit to freak out about.
to spread this have been missing the point ...since last spring.
Even IF the state of new york is as prepared as the governor says by now, (and we do need to be prepared, regardless), and even IF ....IF... nobody else (the attention whore, idiot-boy doctor partied with) gets it;
Can this city and state send the mindless, vacuous wonks in the federal executive branch of the federal government the massive follow-up and track down and medical $$$$invoice$$$$?
for not allowing for a quaranteen at the border in the first place?
no offense to NYCers but ever notice how even when something is done great or a great result happens it is not so much great that happened but the what if…?
NYers tend to be that way to my opinion. We won the most fantastic super bowl ever against a insurmountable team non FB weather that was unheard of in a home town that n the play offs no one ever looses to…doing a thing that sport wise is impossible totally impossible…and like as not the response by NYers is….what about next year.
NYC kudos to you you did great and deserve accolades for it.
Dallas not so much…you sucked at this all the way around.
Our success ration here in the US against this killer killer thing that kills all exposed to it appears to be about 75% or better. Anyone want to bet on this doc making it…I'd take that bet hands down.
If this thing is so so contagious how come they put that family of that guy in Dallas that guy who had projectile vomiting, back in the apt he was in by armed guard …and didn't even remove any of the infectious material in the apartment for at least 6 hours. By a armed PO they were forced to remain in the apt with the stuff. And none of them caught it. Were they infectious disease specialists who knew how to act in that….no.
It was so bad the Dallas response it was tragic. Eventually they cleaned the apt. The first comment and I remember it clearly….they are one official stated responsible for cleaning up their own household wastes….
Geeze louise…that really happened. It had nothing to do with Dallas being the first place it is that they sucked at it.
Kudos to NYC. EBola….I am not to worried about it.
the implication is that he had unprotected sex with his GF.
and why is the Uber driver in the hospital? is uber running a blowjob service as well?
AND...what was the good doctor doing during the week in west african after his medical service was over?
implication is that it took a very long time for symptoms to evolve, and that he may have caught it during his little vacation rather than during the prior service period.
long story short, experts harping on how hard it is to spread and the privacy and travel rights of people with it look increasingly wrong headed.
the reason it spread so quickly at a impossibly sharp curve in Africa…..is because it remains active for quite a while in a dead body. And in Africa who bathes clothes and all the rest to a dead family member is the family. so for each dead you have at least 6 or so that would be exposed pretty directly. It is not like it is here. That is yes personal opinion but when all is said and done studies done and reports written years from now I bet that is found to be a large initial cause in its initial spread in Africa.
Truth be told my opinion is this….Africa places like that…. will use this to enable funding to help their overall health system. They have reasons as well to make this worse than it really is..economic ones. They simply largely have no health care…this is one way to get some funding so they do.
So they get attention to their health care system needs and reinforcement on the reasons why the rest of the world like the US should care.
it is the human way to act aside from practical purpose.
But it pays to make this appear worse than it is. Do the raw number(not the projections) account for this amount of hysteria…flu season each year takes far more deaths than that by multiple times globally.
It is all overdone here and there but for reason it is so here and there.Different reasons but it simply is not so bad as they describe and cannot be here. For any number of reasons.
NYC this response..this shows a lot of that as to reasons. We have flat plain and simple in NYC our s&^% together on this.
studies have found airborne transmission of ebola Â
contrary to assertions from CDC and the admin., there have been multiple studies that have demonstrated airborne transmission of ebola. It may be limited to short distances (though some scientists fear mutation that will allow it to travel further distances), but to say that direct contact is the only way isn't supported by at least 3 studies.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
other viruses that were once believed to not be airborne transmitted were ultimately found to be so (some scientists now believe that influenza virus can travel for hundreds of miles). It is known that viruses can become desiccated to the degree that their particle size and light weight allow them to become airborne and they can later be rehydrated from ambient humidity and repaired.
Viruses are about 100 times smaller than avg bacteria. HEPA filters are very efficient with particles down to 0.3 microns. Unfortunately, viruses can have particle sizes 100 times smaller.
Yes, if someone is coughing, and what they are coughing up is probably blood present subsequent to internal hemorrhaging in lung tissues..and they cough some of that into your eyes mouth or nose….you will probably get ebola.
So yes in their zeal to stop mass hysteria they are a bit misleading us on these things. Lying to us they are you are right.
There is no excuse for that and I agree 100%. but they are idiots who generally don't know their A from a hole in the ground these bureaucrats who run things and tell us lies.
Truth is though despite their lies ebola is really pretty hard to get.
WE studied it years ago when it presented first 20 or so to american knowledge in those circles of infectious control.
It is not such a problem because basically like this doc getting overnight a 103 fever from nothing the night before. It's onset is so thorough and complete peoples symptomatic can not even speak nevertheless walk around spreading it by coughing on subways and such. They are to debilitated to move nevertheless walk to a subway. Some can with great effort but really when symptomatic quickly you can do nothing but lie around.
So you don't spread it so easily lying around usually in your home.
The hysteria they are lying to stop is nevertheless their lies not viable. it is generally for no good reason.
The cdc sucks like Dallas sucks at this. It is the CDC's job so that is sad but that is why poetically they had to put someone else in charge…as the CDC sucked so bad at this.
lying about this and then all the well intentioned politicians and talking heads on TV repeating this to us, but I guess we are so used to being lied to it is sort of for us inconsequential.
I don't know why but people really don't care that they lie and when you tell them they do on other things….generally they get real real mad….not at the Cdc but at you.
How it is….:)
People with jet lag feel sluggish for a few days. Like as not that was the accountable reason.
Never say never but it seems unlikely the scenario described.
Four people were what I heard were going to be quarantined. Probably a couple more as things go I would guess. Like in Dallas…no I don't expect that.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
You don't just get to 103 in the span of time he gives. You are right that the number for Ebola is currently 101.5. Don't know if this guy thought he was out of the woods or it wouldn't happen to him, but why self quarantine and then break it right at the end? Did he miscount? Did he have a temperature sub 101.5 but above 100? We need to get serious here. This doctor should not have been allowed to self isolate considering the contact and proximity he was in. Coulda woulda shoulda.
New York quarantines 3 people in contact with Ebola-carrying doctor - ( New Window )
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Can I lock myself up in the basement with the DVDs and pass on the hysteria?
Do extremists really need to go through the planning and shackle themselves with the risks envolved with weaponozing this disease across the world when they could simply board a subway car with a gun or homemade explosive? It's not as if we do not have the capacity to quarentine and effectively limit the spread of the disease immediately following a potential attack, as we do. Even within the spectrum of disease, would using a virus relatively difficult to transmit really be more efficient than some of the other horrible diseases that could be harnessed to ravage the population?
Sure, I suppose that Ebola could theoretically be leveraged by a terrorist but among my chief fears of threat it would rank rather low.
Wow, you're a fucking idiot. Thank god youll be senile and irrelevant soon.
But please continue the mass hysteria. If I were you, I'd probably go clean out the local grocery store & lock yourself in your basement with Giants DVDs until about the year 2030 or so. It might not even be safe then to come out.
Yeah but at least wed probably be back in the playoffs.
Fever I guess is one of the firstly identifiable symptoms. He was self monitoring by all reports so we can reasonably assume he didn't prior to this morning have a fever in that range.
Again never say never but he was probably jet lagged time zone change and all, multiple flights.
You can't spread it until symptomatic. unlike flu and some other things.
I still say that "a person is not contagious until symptomatic" is weak. It's a vague statement and "symptomatic is never defined. You say a fever (as do federal authorities) but that's because it is fairly early and measurable. But "feeling poorly" may also indeed be a symptom. Or, there may be something else. Fever itself is subject to individual variation that may have little to do with the extent of viremia. Fever may be suppressed artificially or by stress or by hormones.
Until someone shows me specific data linking specific symptoms, including a range of body temp, with viral blood titers or a measure of infectivity, I will be skeptical of any flat statements as to whether a person is contagious at any given point.
You may be right; but you actually don't know. Nobody does.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
Quote:
you are just upset because this guy is white so you can't call everyone racist.
My concern was based on local news reports that the people of "Little Liberia" in S.I. were expressing they had been objects of bigoted remarks and actions. Its a natural reaction for some but is unfortunate. Thats all.
No, you've been throwing out idiotic posts about people being racist if they are concerned about ebola or want a travel ban. You never brought up Little Liberia at all.
Smoking cigarettes and eating bacon double cheeseburgers will kill far more Americans than Ebola or terrorism, but people are ruled by their fears rather than reason.
I agree that Texas hospital must be terrible I really don't think that transfer would have happened here.
You sound smart.
And again, Bill L is doing great work on these threads!
The reason people are upset and afraid is because the information we are getting makes no sense. No one has much confidence in what the authorities are saying or doing.
And yes, this is not a crisis yet. But the highly-concentrated dosage of snark and dismissiveness is uncalled for and very premature. No one can predict at this point how events will continue to develop. But the reality is that things have already happened that most would have thought virtually unimaginable only a very short time ago. Perhaps everyone would be better served showing a little more humility and caution here.
What is virtually unimaginable? That one Liberian National has died in the United States from Ebola? That healthcare workers treating the infected have contracted it? (and since been cured). There is no crisis.
It's ok to be cautious and even concerned. The snark is directed at the completely IRRATIONAL response to whats happening. The spread of this disease in the US versus the panic about the spread of the disease is completely out of proportion.
Let's not forget Nina Pham is cured. Ashoka Mukpo is cured. Amber Vinson is cured. 40+ workers in contact with Thomas Duncan are cured.
Moreover, ISIS is nowhere fucking near Liberia. You think getting there is a simple walk in the park right now? Get real. You pantywaists are looking for shit to freak out about.
Everything is going to be fine. Relax.
Even IF the state of new york is as prepared as the governor says by now, (and we do need to be prepared, regardless), and even IF ....IF... nobody else (the attention whore, idiot-boy doctor partied with) gets it;
Can this city and state send the mindless, vacuous wonks in the federal executive branch of the federal government the massive follow-up and track down and medical $$$$invoice$$$$?
for not allowing for a quaranteen at the border in the first place?
and thi$$$ is for ONE guy...
NYers tend to be that way to my opinion. We won the most fantastic super bowl ever against a insurmountable team non FB weather that was unheard of in a home town that n the play offs no one ever looses to…doing a thing that sport wise is impossible totally impossible…and like as not the response by NYers is….what about next year.
NYC kudos to you you did great and deserve accolades for it.
Dallas not so much…you sucked at this all the way around.
Our success ration here in the US against this killer killer thing that kills all exposed to it appears to be about 75% or better. Anyone want to bet on this doc making it…I'd take that bet hands down.
If this thing is so so contagious how come they put that family of that guy in Dallas that guy who had projectile vomiting, back in the apt he was in by armed guard …and didn't even remove any of the infectious material in the apartment for at least 6 hours. By a armed PO they were forced to remain in the apt with the stuff. And none of them caught it. Were they infectious disease specialists who knew how to act in that….no.
It was so bad the Dallas response it was tragic. Eventually they cleaned the apt. The first comment and I remember it clearly….they are one official stated responsible for cleaning up their own household wastes….
Geeze louise…that really happened. It had nothing to do with Dallas being the first place it is that they sucked at it.
Kudos to NYC. EBola….I am not to worried about it.
Any want to take a bet on no hospital staff FD PO or others getting it from this doc…..I'd take that bet as well.
New Yorkers get used to it…you did a great great job…live with it. WEven though you want to complain about and nit pick even that….
Your response sucked in every aspect. That is just one.
Sure, if taken out of context. But this was a MD in a hot zone, providing treatment in a country with an actual outbreak. Not so unimaginable.
and why is the Uber driver in the hospital? is uber running a blowjob service as well?
AND...what was the good doctor doing during the week in west african after his medical service was over?
implication is that it took a very long time for symptoms to evolve, and that he may have caught it during his little vacation rather than during the prior service period.
long story short, experts harping on how hard it is to spread and the privacy and travel rights of people with it look increasingly wrong headed.
Truth be told my opinion is this….Africa places like that…. will use this to enable funding to help their overall health system. They have reasons as well to make this worse than it really is..economic ones. They simply largely have no health care…this is one way to get some funding so they do.
So they get attention to their health care system needs and reinforcement on the reasons why the rest of the world like the US should care.
But it pays to make this appear worse than it is. Do the raw number(not the projections) account for this amount of hysteria…flu season each year takes far more deaths than that by multiple times globally.
It is all overdone here and there but for reason it is so here and there.Different reasons but it simply is not so bad as they describe and cannot be here. For any number of reasons.
NYC this response..this shows a lot of that as to reasons. We have flat plain and simple in NYC our s&^% together on this.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond.
one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
Viruses are about 100 times smaller than avg bacteria. HEPA filters are very efficient with particles down to 0.3 microns. Unfortunately, viruses can have particle sizes 100 times smaller.
Yes, if someone is coughing, and what they are coughing up is probably blood present subsequent to internal hemorrhaging in lung tissues..and they cough some of that into your eyes mouth or nose….you will probably get ebola.
So yes in their zeal to stop mass hysteria they are a bit misleading us on these things. Lying to us they are you are right.
There is no excuse for that and I agree 100%. but they are idiots who generally don't know their A from a hole in the ground these bureaucrats who run things and tell us lies.
Truth is though despite their lies ebola is really pretty hard to get.
WE studied it years ago when it presented first 20 or so to american knowledge in those circles of infectious control.
It is not such a problem because basically like this doc getting overnight a 103 fever from nothing the night before. It's onset is so thorough and complete peoples symptomatic can not even speak nevertheless walk around spreading it by coughing on subways and such. They are to debilitated to move nevertheless walk to a subway. Some can with great effort but really when symptomatic quickly you can do nothing but lie around.
So you don't spread it so easily lying around usually in your home.
The hysteria they are lying to stop is nevertheless their lies not viable. it is generally for no good reason.
The cdc sucks like Dallas sucks at this. It is the CDC's job so that is sad but that is why poetically they had to put someone else in charge…as the CDC sucked so bad at this.
I don't know why but people really don't care that they lie and when you tell them they do on other things….generally they get real real mad….not at the Cdc but at you.
How it is….:)