no it is the football team…I hate Dallas and am rubbing it in when NYC is great at at thing and they plainly suck at a thing….like we do at FB right about now.
They suck really suck a whole lot worse on ebola…so take that Dallas fans.
contrary to assertions from CDC and the admin., there have been multiple studies that have demonstrated airborne transmission of ebola. It may be limited to short distances (though some scientists fear mutation that will allow it to travel further distances), but to say that direct contact is the only way isn't supported by at least 3 studies.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
I'm not sure if it's the same study or not, but the one I read on the pigs to monkey transfer also noted that when they did the same experiment, housing infected monkeys next to naive monkeys, there was *no* intra-species transmission.
So, it's of concern and it's thought-provoking but there is no misleading and no need to panic. It says that there can be some airborne transmission between some select species and some other select species, but, at least in non-human primates, no airborne transmission from one member of the species to another member of the same species.
Now, that all does beg the question of how you define airborne transmission. Most times when people cough there is the spray of fluid, so droplets could be spread.
Bloomberg had more to do with the FD in the time period when they advanced their TEC teams, who responded to this. Had them for years and years but it was expanded in years past not right now.
Politicians of course will take credit for anything as we know.
This NYC response the media is painting it as…we learned from our first mistakes we now do better…that is the narrative we are being sold.
Nonsense…there are multiple reasons why NYC responded better per example the 30 plus tec teams they have for response and transport of patients. Does Dallas have even one. I know they have haz mat and such but to transport patients…I don't think so…maybe on paper is some plan somewhere.
The hospitals I can not speak to that but I bet my bottom dollar they are depending on training and infer structure internal to hospitals that was developed many years ago.
Can you remake the wheel in a month heck no.
Dallas you have another event in Dallas even right now…I bet they screw it up badly. Did not they move anyone infected right out of Texas anyone except that poor guy who died that is…his mistake staying in dallas.
Dallas zero rest of country 100 success rate%
….no dallas you flat plain and simple suck at this…they are coming with us.
Some poor guy from AFrica knows not if he is coming or going…you can stay in Dallas ;)
One dies and two live…go figure.
NYC want to bet he stays in NYC and lives. They could move him where he would prefer, but NYC if he stays there I bet firmly and securely…he lives. Dallas I would not take that bet.
I don't know anything about American Thinker, whether it's left or right. It was one of the first links to come up. The studies were conducted. I was part of a discussion with a prestigious hospital just two weeks ago and this topic came up. I can't help it that only certain sources are reporting it. Google it yourself. Airborne transmission of ebola .
that you say "Dallas" as if its a single-hospital backwoods town. I'm pretty sure Dallas Presbyterian is not the main hospital in the city. For example, Parkland is physically attached to UT Southwestern Medical Center which is a premier research facility in this country with a fair share of Nobel laureates. UTSW would easily match up with any of the medical centers in NYC.
I don't know anything about American Thinker, whether it's left or right. It was one of the first links to come up. The studies were conducted. I was part of a discussion with a prestigious hospital just two weeks ago and this topic came up. I can't help it that only certain sources are reporting it. Google it yourself. Airborne transmission of ebola .
re. the study you are referring to where there was no airborne transmission, some believe that the infected monkeys simply died too quickly for it to spread.
As i said, there have been at least 3 studies where there was airborne transmission. One in '95, one in '12 and don't remember where or when the other but think it may have been '10.
Now i really have to go. If I have time later, i will get more details on the studies. Have a nice ebola free day everyone.
is a bit different to general knowledge than airborne transmission thought of by others.
Can ebola be alive in the air like a flu can for quite some time so you inhale minute particles and then they infect you after they sneeze or cough …certainly not.
Can you cough up a spot of blood then spew that out as some are inclined to do when they cough forcefully into someones now ear eye or mouth…yes as well.
But saying it is not airborne transmissible leads people to think like nurses in Dallas did…..I don't need full protective covering I may leave my neck exposed….so it can lead to bad things.
The general meaning is not perhaps the literal medical meaning but the use of the literal medical meaning in a general context is a lie. A good intention is behind it to prevent the needless hysteria, but it is a form of lying to the general public. to the general public a person coughing into your eye a bit of blood…it is airborne transmittable that thing.
in some large part because the CDC screwed their communication on this thing so badly. And in some cases the actual treatment. They probably did actually tell the nurse to get onto that plane in Chicago even though she had a low grade fever.They have since changed airline travel to be no fever….as it became publicly a issue that she traveled.
They suck as bad as Dallas which is why they were basically taken out of the ballgame a other person is basically now running the CDC. Not a medical person but we can hope someone with common sense. Evidently it was quite lacking over there.
They hurt credibility in many ways when they commit not overt but perhaps covert lies to the american public…like here people come to find out.
Found out how much do they trust them on the next thing?
and all medical people going way overboard with protocol. For instance, when the first doctor was flown into Atlanta, they shut down the entire route from Dobbins AF base to the CDC. Thankfully it was on a weekend. I was questioning that, but what if the ambulance got into an accident. And they had the full suits with respirators. For some reason everything outside of the CDC has been sloppy. Some of the precautions may be a bit much, but this virus, while not airborne, seems to be easy for medical personnel to get. Many in Africa, including Doctors without Borders have got it and died. So I don't know why people were not especially careful.
they want to assuage the hysteria of the general public but sans training and familiarity even your nurses start to think it is no big deal.
They want the public to think that and they should, not worry but the nurses internalized that and did as well and treated this guy without full protective gear…they left their necks exposed.
The hospital should have trained prior as NYC obviously did. Bill for one attests to that.
The NYC thing was not a accident nor just because we have learned from Dallas…that is media pap. Docs nurses Fire depts they train have equipment and are generally ready in NYC. I bet a brush up is all they did in this month. It is obvious they were ready to go.
The CDC were changing their guidelines virtually every day. This when they knew of it four now five months ago and having plenty of time to prepare for it coming here.
It is amazing how badly they sucked at this.
I don't know if this is true, but it makes a cute sign - Â
he now has come and gone..quite lived up to promise though. In retrospect all in all I put him as one of the good maybe great ones. No SB ring however.
Years and years I am quite amazed most of the old old crowd are still here.
Nice hearing from peoples like you especially who as I recall were always enjoyable to speak with, without exception.
Your memory is quite exceptional as well ;)
Quomo giving the 'Bama a lesson on leadership. Good for him. Getting out ahead of the pc gang
Maybe this is what the bama meant by saying we were 'in for a learning moment'. yeah he was...
NY Times:
''
New York and New Jersey Tighten Ebola Screenings at Airports
By MARC SANTORAOCT. 24, 2014
The governors of New York and New Jersey announced Friday afternoon that they were ordering all people entering the country through two area airports who had direct contact with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea to be quarantined.
The announcement comes one day after an American doctor, who had worked in Guinea and returned to New York City earlier in October, tested positive for Ebola and became the first New York patient of the deadly virus.
“A voluntary Ebola quarantine is not enough,” said Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York. “This is too serious a public health situation.”
Outlined in a late afternoon news conference, the new protocols raised a host of questions about how, exactly, the screening process would work and who, exactly, it would target. The two airports in question are Kennedy International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport.
Medical personnel returning from Ebola-stricken countries to New York or New Jersey will be automatically quarantined, officials said Friday afternoon.
Dr. Spencer was in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital Center on Friday afternoon, the city’s health commissioner, Dr. Mary T. Bassett, said at the news conference.
The Blue Bottle, a cafe in a former loading bay in the shadow of the High Line that Dr. Spencer visited before developing a fever, was allowed to reopen on Friday after clearing a city inspection.
Follow live developments on City Room »
It was also taken without consulting the New York City health department, according to a senior city official.
Earlier in the day, the White House sidestepped questions about whether a quarantine of health care workers was being considered. Instead, officials defended the procedures the administration has put in place...''
that makes actually perfect sense. Self quarantine I would assume as how can they quarantine in some special place. Who is there at the airport to help them quarantine? Go home whatever keep by yourself for the time period required.
The media does not seem to get it. This is not a screening or a putting of peoples somewhere as I read it. It puts the requirement of law for all those so exposed to do the right thing, which is self quarantine.
That way thought…this is excellent. If they deny entry and all that that is counter productive to the thing of control. But legally certainly why not so exposed be forced by law to quarantine.
I agree 100% This doc good doc he is for what he did…he needed to self quarantine. and he could have. They have to make facilities available for those who would do this…so it may be a large undertaking. But the expenses on the other side if they do not…..way exceed those costs.
Enforceable no it is not. Who is to say who tells the truth. But 99% of the time the law will find most peoples truthful in this.
can not afford to stay away from home friends family jobs and all the rest just because they were in contact with those others.
How would they eat for one? Those countries are not in the business of feeding foreign nationals. Where would they stay for another?
They will here have to make some sort of accommodation for those who cannot self quarantine. Most probably can self quarantine. It does not have to be complete isolation before symptoms present if they do at all.
Denying them back would have not been right for citizens, they have done nothing wrong.
for the USA to build a little free quarantine village near the airport in freetown liberia, for example, and offerround trip free flights for any medical volunteers willing to take the proper steps.
what we have done so far is the exact opposite, barely helping at all (until this month) and yet also leaving our own cities exposed out of misplaced motives.
suppose they had kids. I mean stay away from your kids for a month or so just because you had some interaction.
Sounds like a POW camp, disagreeable places those. Just being in that country sucks nevertheless being there 21 more days then you have to.
Disagree let them back self quarantine or if not possible give them a place like they did finally in Dallas where they can stay like a home environment.
Little risk to that. Symptomatic sure isolate them immediately and entirely.
there is no one in Liberia who is going to be watching to see who is interacting with ebola people.
You make it punitive like a camp…they will go out of the country to another by maybe bus, jet out of there and then say they were not in those countries. Or were in there but really stayed in this other. The passport stamp says the country they jetted out of. There may not even be stamped going between african countries.
There are just to many ways to hide where they were and who they interacted with. Some they could prove like this doc but who would do the checking, if they say not?
Cuomo by my take is often a independent thinker and to his credit does not buy the party line. I don't agree with him on a bunch of things but I respect leadership. He has it.
the feds sucked at this from the get go. the CDC being so bad they had to put someone from the outside now to run it. Shameful that. Almost the same in that context as FEMA in Katrina. About the same level of incompetence. Good job Brownie…..you suck.
coming here…..I could live with that. There would have to be exceptions UN staffers for instance but I could live with that.
Restricting US citizens from returning completely….I would say as a citizen you could not be overtly refused entirely. It is your right as a citizen to return to here. A state as this in international commerce travel and such I think a state could not outwardly refuse entry of US citizens. Travel of this sort is usually a fed right. When here in the US the state however may require what they want of them within the law.
That's my opinion
that Dallas eventually did get right. They took those people stuck in that contaminated apt when it became public their conditions….and put them in a home of some sort…I think it had a religious affiliation the home.
In quarantine but able to communicate with other get food do things we all do.
So that they should in that follow Dallas's example but in only that. Other than that Dallas tells you only what not to do.
It could easily be done in NYC volunteers or any number of religiously based organizations. Worst case and you have to put them in a public facility of some sort, but really the numbers exposed are probably quite small. Likely it would not have to be a public home thing.
Slow clap for Cuomo & Christie pandering to the teeming masses. That'll only discourage doctors from going over & fighting the disease, in turn making things over there even worse.
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
They suck really suck a whole lot worse on ebola…so take that Dallas fans.
To summarize a study done in Canada in 2012: piglets were inoculated with Zaire ebola and placed in a room with monkeys that were not inoculated. They were separated by cages so there could be no direct contact. Within days, the monkeys became infected and the ones that were in the direct air pathway (to HVAC return) were the first to become infected.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but don't believe everything the govt tells you. They are trying to suppress panic. I like to know the truth. Sorry, I am leaving office now and won't be able to respond. one article on airborne transmission of ebola - ( New Window )
I'm not sure if it's the same study or not, but the one I read on the pigs to monkey transfer also noted that when they did the same experiment, housing infected monkeys next to naive monkeys, there was *no* intra-species transmission.
So, it's of concern and it's thought-provoking but there is no misleading and no need to panic. It says that there can be some airborne transmission between some select species and some other select species, but, at least in non-human primates, no airborne transmission from one member of the species to another member of the same species.
Now, that all does beg the question of how you define airborne transmission. Most times when people cough there is the spray of fluid, so droplets could be spread.
Politicians of course will take credit for anything as we know.
This NYC response the media is painting it as…we learned from our first mistakes we now do better…that is the narrative we are being sold.
Nonsense…there are multiple reasons why NYC responded better per example the 30 plus tec teams they have for response and transport of patients. Does Dallas have even one. I know they have haz mat and such but to transport patients…I don't think so…maybe on paper is some plan somewhere.
The hospitals I can not speak to that but I bet my bottom dollar they are depending on training and infer structure internal to hospitals that was developed many years ago.
Can you remake the wheel in a month heck no.
Dallas you have another event in Dallas even right now…I bet they screw it up badly. Did not they move anyone infected right out of Texas anyone except that poor guy who died that is…his mistake staying in dallas.
Dallas zero rest of country 100 success rate%
Dallas sucks at this.The media narrative is BS
Some poor guy from AFrica knows not if he is coming or going…you can stay in Dallas ;)
One dies and two live…go figure.
NYC want to bet he stays in NYC and lives. They could move him where he would prefer, but NYC if he stays there I bet firmly and securely…he lives. Dallas I would not take that bet.
Geez Louise... - ( New Window )
As i said, there have been at least 3 studies where there was airborne transmission. One in '95, one in '12 and don't remember where or when the other but think it may have been '10.
Now i really have to go. If I have time later, i will get more details on the studies. Have a nice ebola free day everyone.
The problem is that the CDC and varied people in positions of responsibility at all levels have been using knowledge of that fact as cover for either
a) not being prepared (locally in some areas) or having
b) poorly considered policy
anyway.
we want to see them have prioities in the right place, in a case like this, and considering post 9/11 priorities and resources, from the get go.
and not have to play wack-a-mole.
and keeping in mind that this did not start today...it has been many months.
Can ebola be alive in the air like a flu can for quite some time so you inhale minute particles and then they infect you after they sneeze or cough …certainly not.
Can you cough up a spot of blood then spew that out as some are inclined to do when they cough forcefully into someones now ear eye or mouth…yes as well.
But saying it is not airborne transmissible leads people to think like nurses in Dallas did…..I don't need full protective covering I may leave my neck exposed….so it can lead to bad things.
The general meaning is not perhaps the literal medical meaning but the use of the literal medical meaning in a general context is a lie. A good intention is behind it to prevent the needless hysteria, but it is a form of lying to the general public. to the general public a person coughing into your eye a bit of blood…it is airborne transmittable that thing.
when the governor says it...ok, looks like he did his part, what is within his purview.
They suck as bad as Dallas which is why they were basically taken out of the ballgame a other person is basically now running the CDC. Not a medical person but we can hope someone with common sense. Evidently it was quite lacking over there.
They hurt credibility in many ways when they commit not overt but perhaps covert lies to the american public…like here people come to find out.
Found out how much do they trust them on the next thing?
They want the public to think that and they should, not worry but the nurses internalized that and did as well and treated this guy without full protective gear…they left their necks exposed.
The hospital should have trained prior as NYC obviously did. Bill for one attests to that.
The NYC thing was not a accident nor just because we have learned from Dallas…that is media pap. Docs nurses Fire depts they train have equipment and are generally ready in NYC. I bet a brush up is all they did in this month. It is obvious they were ready to go.
The CDC were changing their guidelines virtually every day. This when they knew of it four now five months ago and having plenty of time to prepare for it coming here.
It is amazing how badly they sucked at this.
Years and years I am quite amazed most of the old old crowd are still here.
Nice hearing from peoples like you especially who as I recall were always enjoyable to speak with, without exception.
Your memory is quite exceptional as well ;)
Link - ( New Window )
Maybe this is what the bama meant by saying we were 'in for a learning moment'. yeah he was...
NY Times:
''
New York and New Jersey Tighten Ebola Screenings at Airports
By MARC SANTORAOCT. 24, 2014
The governors of New York and New Jersey announced Friday afternoon that they were ordering all people entering the country through two area airports who had direct contact with Ebola patients in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea to be quarantined.
The announcement comes one day after an American doctor, who had worked in Guinea and returned to New York City earlier in October, tested positive for Ebola and became the first New York patient of the deadly virus.
“A voluntary Ebola quarantine is not enough,” said Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York. “This is too serious a public health situation.”
Outlined in a late afternoon news conference, the new protocols raised a host of questions about how, exactly, the screening process would work and who, exactly, it would target. The two airports in question are Kennedy International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport.
Medical personnel returning from Ebola-stricken countries to New York or New Jersey will be automatically quarantined, officials said Friday afternoon.
Dr. Spencer was in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital Center on Friday afternoon, the city’s health commissioner, Dr. Mary T. Bassett, said at the news conference.
The Blue Bottle, a cafe in a former loading bay in the shadow of the High Line that Dr. Spencer visited before developing a fever, was allowed to reopen on Friday after clearing a city inspection.
Follow live developments on City Room »
It was also taken without consulting the New York City health department, according to a senior city official.
Earlier in the day, the White House sidestepped questions about whether a quarantine of health care workers was being considered. Instead, officials defended the procedures the administration has put in place...''
The media does not seem to get it. This is not a screening or a putting of peoples somewhere as I read it. It puts the requirement of law for all those so exposed to do the right thing, which is self quarantine.
That way thought…this is excellent. If they deny entry and all that that is counter productive to the thing of control. But legally certainly why not so exposed be forced by law to quarantine.
I agree 100% This doc good doc he is for what he did…he needed to self quarantine. and he could have. They have to make facilities available for those who would do this…so it may be a large undertaking. But the expenses on the other side if they do not…..way exceed those costs.
Enforceable no it is not. Who is to say who tells the truth. But 99% of the time the law will find most peoples truthful in this.
How would they eat for one? Those countries are not in the business of feeding foreign nationals. Where would they stay for another?
They will here have to make some sort of accommodation for those who cannot self quarantine. Most probably can self quarantine. It does not have to be complete isolation before symptoms present if they do at all.
Denying them back would have not been right for citizens, they have done nothing wrong.
what we have done so far is the exact opposite, barely helping at all (until this month) and yet also leaving our own cities exposed out of misplaced motives.
Sounds like a POW camp, disagreeable places those. Just being in that country sucks nevertheless being there 21 more days then you have to.
Disagree let them back self quarantine or if not possible give them a place like they did finally in Dallas where they can stay like a home environment.
Little risk to that. Symptomatic sure isolate them immediately and entirely.
You make it punitive like a camp…they will go out of the country to another by maybe bus, jet out of there and then say they were not in those countries. Or were in there but really stayed in this other. The passport stamp says the country they jetted out of. There may not even be stamped going between african countries.
There are just to many ways to hide where they were and who they interacted with. Some they could prove like this doc but who would do the checking, if they say not?
So they would lie if we made it hard on them.
Lie I certainly would, take my chances. Catch me what do they do quarantine me? that is happening anyway.
So no they have to make it reasonable.
i would go even a bit farther, but it is not a small thing that 2 states are now out ahead of the feds on this.
This is to his and all involved their credit.
proud that a new yorker, The Quomo, at least did - something
we need leaders who are willing to push on this.
the harsher he is on it the more popular he will become!
Restricting US citizens from returning completely….I would say as a citizen you could not be overtly refused entirely. It is your right as a citizen to return to here. A state as this in international commerce travel and such I think a state could not outwardly refuse entry of US citizens. Travel of this sort is usually a fed right. When here in the US the state however may require what they want of them within the law.
That's my opinion
But I happen to agree.
In quarantine but able to communicate with other get food do things we all do.
So that they should in that follow Dallas's example but in only that. Other than that Dallas tells you only what not to do.
It could easily be done in NYC volunteers or any number of religiously based organizations. Worst case and you have to put them in a public facility of some sort, but really the numbers exposed are probably quite small. Likely it would not have to be a public home thing.
It certainly does.
With the help of the reverse vampires.
But we're living in the age of Ebola hysteria so whatever.
Please expand. Or are you just trying to get in some cheap political shots at the president?
But I happen to agree.
What the hell does Hillary Clinton have to do with this? Why is she even being brought up? Oh, I forgot that's high up on the talking points.