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Peyton Manning Discussion

kelsto811 : 10/24/2014 10:35 am
How many years do you guys think he has left?

A friend brought this up to me recently and thinks he can play well into his 40's (He claims maybe 5 more years).

His reasoning is that Peyton has never had the strongest arm, thrown the prettiest ball, or been very mobile, but has always been the smartest guy on the field which makes him the best.

So question is....over/under on 3 more seasons following this one?

I'll take the under.
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RE: Best regular season QB I've ever seen...  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/24/2014 11:24 am : link
In comment 11938459 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
one more ring would put some of his postseason doubters to rest. He also has such a quick release that when he is on his game he doesn't get hit much so that keeps him pretty fresh.


hes the best regular season performer in nfl history. And sometimes when people say that it comes off as a backhanded compliment. It shouldnt be. Its amazing how awesome he has consistently been season after season

but the knock on his playoff career, for me at least, isnt really based on just ring count. Its based on a perceived gap between what he (and his team) actually accomplished vs what i think they should have during the time period, and thats a big gap. Some of that is obviously colored by the fact that he sets the bar so high, which is a testament to him

but He has lost literally like 9 or 10 times as a favorite, many of them at home and after bye weeks, most often with his high flying offense going down in flames. Theres not many 35 to 31 barnburner bad beats in there. He didnt play well in the postseason as a whole during the one time his team actually won a sb either

him winning another ring cant do a ton to change all that much for me, too much history. But its not like his postseason career stops me from viewing him as a GOAT candidate qb to begin with. You cant just dismiss or trivialize how absurd he has been during the regular season as some do. Lets not undervalue the 300 game sample to hype up the 20 game sample
.  
arcarsenal : 10/24/2014 11:27 am : link
I think as soon as he gets that 2nd ring, he'll probably just call it. It may well happen this year. Denver is pretty clearly the best team in football right now.
Right now Denver is the team to beat in the AFC  
djm : 10/24/2014 11:33 am : link
And fucking Dallas or Philly in the NFC
maybe he can coach up his brother  
blueberry : 10/24/2014 11:34 am : link
not taking anything away from Eli - but some of these smarts have to be imparted to li'l bro - that would be nice.
Is he too wealthy to consider the headaches of  
Blackbeard : 10/24/2014 11:35 am : link
being a Coach - for The NY Giants?

Haa? Ya think?
one thing can stop Denver from winning the SB  
santacruzom : 10/24/2014 11:36 am : link
John Fox.
RE: maybe he can coach up his brother  
Victor in CT : 10/24/2014 11:42 am : link
In comment 11938517 blueberry said:
Quote:
not taking anything away from Eli - but some of these smarts have to be imparted to li'l bro - that would be nice.


And Eli can teach him how to win a big game when nothing is going the way it was planned.
RE: RE: Best regular season QB I've ever seen...  
dcgiantsfan : 10/24/2014 12:05 pm : link
In comment 11938496 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
In comment 11938459 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


one more ring would put some of his postseason doubters to rest. He also has such a quick release that when he is on his game he doesn't get hit much so that keeps him pretty fresh.



hes the best regular season performer in nfl history. And sometimes when people say that it comes off as a backhanded compliment. It shouldnt be. Its amazing how awesome he has consistently been season after season

but the knock on his playoff career, for me at least, isnt really based on just ring count. Its based on a perceived gap between what he (and his team) actually accomplished vs what i think they should have during the time period, and thats a big gap. Some of that is obviously colored by the fact that he sets the bar so high, which is a testament to him

but He has lost literally like 9 or 10 times as a favorite, many of them at home and after bye weeks, most often with his high flying offense going down in flames. Theres not many 35 to 31 barnburner bad beats in there. He didnt play well in the postseason as a whole during the one time his team actually won a sb either

him winning another ring cant do a ton to change all that much for me, too much history. But its not like his postseason career stops me from viewing him as a GOAT candidate qb to begin with. You cant just dismiss or trivialize how absurd he has been during the regular season as some do. Lets not undervalue the 300 game sample to hype up the 20 game sample


I like Peyton and have rooted for him many many times, but the postseason record is what keeps me from the GOAT conversation. It's almost like baseball for me...in that you can have a team that dominates in the regular season, but come post season the tables turn. He has times where they have been the best or one of the best teams in the regular season, but their performance in the post season came far short. It wasn't like they snuck into the playoffs, yet he has an 11-12 playoff record. They just stinks:) I am a lifelong Braves fan and for as much as I loved the 90s success only winning 1 World Series is not good.

Weeks 1-17 Peyton is the best to ever do it, but I like the money-time players. Many have pointed to the fact that it's a team game (which obviously it is), but those same teams steam rolled thru many of the regular seasons yet got stymied in the playoffs. So I can't laud him for his regular season greatness then excuse away the 11-12 playoff record.

Still like Peyton and enjoy watching him work...the guy is a total machine, but the playoff history is hard for me to ignore.
Amazing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/24/2014 12:14 pm : link
QB.

But his post-season performances cannot be separated from his overall legacy.

A second ring would be huge.

But he's blown (and his teams) a lot of playoff games.

Hated the son of a bitch, but what was Joe Montana's post-season record?
MoM: Does Manning bear much blame for the two flame-outs in Denver?  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/24/2014 12:16 pm : link
SB XLVIII was a team-wide beat-down. The previous year, he threw the two costly interceptions - including the killer in OT - but the Broncos should have won that game in regulation.

His post-season record with Indy is harder to defend. Part of the problem was that the Colts, other than Peyton Manning, really weren't all that good. But yeah - Belichick, LeBeau and Cottrell did seem to have his number for a while there.
He wins this next SB  
bradshaw44 : 10/24/2014 12:23 pm : link
He retires. That's what I think.
BBBlogger  
Blackbeard : 10/24/2014 12:26 pm : link
As they say, "Match-ups"!
RE: Amazing  
dcgiantsfan : 10/24/2014 12:27 pm : link
In comment 11938566 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
QB.

But his post-season performances cannot be separated from his overall legacy.

A second ring would be huge.

But he's blown (and his teams) a lot of playoff games.

Hated the son of a bitch, but what was Joe Montana's post-season record?


16-7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_starting_quarterback_playoff_records
bigblueblogger  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/24/2014 12:29 pm : link
This past sb was a teamwide beatdown. But when you set every offensive record known to man during the season and it ends with 8 meaningless points, everyone on that offense shares that stink, including the guy touching the ball on every snap. The seahawks defense, great as they were, wasnt the unit on that field we expected to corinate as legendary.

But overall, last postseason was a net positive for him to me. The loss to baltimore the year before was one of the rare times a peyton led offense actually performed well in playoff defeat, but the overtime pick was a killer



I still think  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/24/2014 12:29 pm : link
the interception agains the Ravens was roughing the QB and pass interference (or defensive contact, not sure if ball was in air yet). Not to mention the weather was in the low teens. Broncos still should have won if not for Champ Bailey(?) letting Jacoby Jones get behind him with under a minute left down by a touchdown.

Peyton's postseason resume hasn't been fantastic. He has been stymied by some fantastic defensive coaches who put together great gameplans. On top of that, NFL refs tend to call fewer penalties in the postseason.

I also wonder how much of an impact having such dominant regular season teams had on them in the playoffs in that Dungy would rest their starters Week 17 and they would get a bye, and then would not have played for essentially three weeks. It's all conjecture. The end result is that Peyton's regular season performance completely obliterate his postseason performance.

But I'll take his 243 regular season starts where he has the most game-winning drives and the most 4th quarter comebacks in history over 23 postseason games.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 10/24/2014 12:42 pm : link
I think if Peyton wins another SB with him being the dominant driving force, a lot of the playoff concerns go away. If he wins two, they certainly do.
Best regular season QB ever? No real dispute, imo. Peyton.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/24/2014 12:51 pm : link
Best clutch, "for all the marbles" I've ever seen?

No particular order:

1-Brady

2-Montana

3-Eli

4-Staubach

5-Starr

There will ALWAYS be that differnce to me..
Guys like  
GShock : 10/24/2014 12:53 pm : link
Marino and Elway and Peyton who carry their teams often flounder when they get to the post-season, perhaps because the teams they are facing are more complete, hotter, whatever. Marino could never overcome it. Elway couldn't either, then got a running game and a defense and boom, two Super Bowl wins.
BB56, I think John Unitas belongs on the "clutch" list too.  
Victor in CT : 10/24/2014 1:04 pm : link
He basically invented he 2 minute drill
lets not act like the colts were trash around peyton  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/24/2014 1:07 pm : link
In fact the supporting cast carried a largely mediocre peyton in the postseason that he won his ring

They were loaded at the skill positions offensively throughout his time there. Guys who will be wearing hof jackets. Tough to name a qb who consistently played with more skill help. Terrific o.l. too

The defenses were up and down but most often not the biggest reason his teams lost in the playoffs, just go through it. Only twice did a peyton offense score 20 points in defeat in postseason. One of the best edge rusher tandems ever in freeney and mathis during his career on that side of the ball, built to play with a lead that peytons loaded offense rarely afforded them in postseason

People wsnt to read into how the colts looked when he missed 2011 to form some narrative around an indictment on the colts through the decade. A couple problems with that....

1. The colts cast had already begun to show decline by that point, the 2011 version wasnt indicative of the talent through the decade. The 2010 team "only" went 10-6 even with peyton, which for those tesms in that era represented a clear downward arrow

2. Curtis painter isnt a replacement level qb. Almost any team that starts curtis painter for a season in the modern nfl is going to suck.
what does "clutch" and "for all the marbles"  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/24/2014 1:13 pm : link
mean? Is it only Super Bowls? Is it postseason? Is it "must-win" games late in the season? Is it against divisional rivals? Is it the fourth quarter? is it less well-defined meaning when the other divisions on the team can't be relied upon to play well and the QB has to do the heavy lifting?

Take Eli, for example. He did some great things in the playoff runs. But how many times has the Giants team faded down the stretch? How many times have the Giants completely failed to show up in big games? That 13-6 loss at home to the Eagles, the shutout against Atlanta followed by the blowout against the Ravens with the season on the line. The shutout in the playoffs against Carolina. The brutal playoff game against Philly. It seems taht every is results-oriented around here rather than breaking down film. But for all the talk about Eli's clutch, "for all the marbles" results, he has playoff wins in only two different seasons managed to only win enough "for all the marbles" regular season games to make the postseason 5 years in his 9 full seasons. I'll assume the Giants don't make the playoffs this season either, but won't count it officially.
RE: what does  
Go Terps : 10/24/2014 1:21 pm : link
In comment 11938698 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
mean? Is it only Super Bowls? Is it postseason? Is it "must-win" games late in the season? Is it against divisional rivals? Is it the fourth quarter? is it less well-defined meaning when the other divisions on the team can't be relied upon to play well and the QB has to do the heavy lifting?

Take Eli, for example. He did some great things in the playoff runs. But how many times has the Giants team faded down the stretch? How many times have the Giants completely failed to show up in big games? That 13-6 loss at home to the Eagles, the shutout against Atlanta followed by the blowout against the Ravens with the season on the line. The shutout in the playoffs against Carolina. The brutal playoff game against Philly. It seems taht every is results-oriented around here rather than breaking down film. But for all the talk about Eli's clutch, "for all the marbles" results, he has playoff wins in only two different seasons managed to only win enough "for all the marbles" regular season games to make the postseason 5 years in his 9 full seasons. I'll assume the Giants don't make the playoffs this season either, but won't count it officially.


Ask Dan Marino what he'd give for one of Eli's title years. On the flip side, ask Trent Dilfer if he gives a shit about what people think about him as a Super Bowl winner.

Peyton is a phenomenal QB, but the knock on his playoff performances is legit. It's why none of us will trust Denver if they get there again this year. Him being intimidated off the field and hanging his head in February shouldn't be forgotten.

The point of any sport is to win titles.
which is why  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/24/2014 1:22 pm : link
Justin Tuck is a better defensive end than Reggie White.
Bottom line:  
Stan from LA : 10/24/2014 1:23 pm : link
Dumb Colts let a Hall of Fame QB in his prime go for NOTHING. I get they got a nice your QB in his place, but not to get a damn thing for an MVP performer the last 3 years and maybe 3+ more years is insanity stupid. And, no, the salary cap/bonus situation could have been easily solved so Manning could have been traded for tons of high draft picks, but the idiotic Colts thought he was done so they let him leave for free.

Worst move for a franchise in any sport in history.
Stan  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/24/2014 1:25 pm : link
you bring this up during every Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning discussion and you are wrong-- annoyingly, absurdly, in a we-want-you-to-go-away-troll-like-manner wrong.
I don't think he plays after his contract.....  
MOOPS : 10/24/2014 1:32 pm : link
is up. I think there's a reasonable chance he hangs it up after 2015 if he can get another ring by then.
RE: Is he too wealthy to consider the headaches of  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/24/2014 1:36 pm : link
In comment 11938519 Blackbeard said:
Quote:
being a Coach - for The NY Giants?

Haa? Ya think?


I think he could be am unbelievable OC. Though isn't that what he is now?

He'll write his own ticket to either a career as a TV analyst or coach. He could be like Harbough but without being a total asshole and the KMart khakis.
Even though he has two more years on his contract,  
Doomster : 10/24/2014 1:48 pm : link
if he wins a SB this year, it's a good possibility he hangs it up.....go out a winner with just about every record on the books...

I think when he looks back over his career, two plays will haunt him....the pick 6 in the SB and the last minute td pass by Flacco....what could have been....

But comparing qb's, is really debatable....some had more weapons, better defense, better coaching, etc.....then there are the lucky breaks, for or against.....

You almost have to look at teams rather than just the qb.....who would have had the better career, if Brady played for the Colts, and Peyton for the Pats?
There isn't a funnier image than  
Go Terps : 10/24/2014 1:53 pm : link
Peyton as a QB coach trying to get through to Jameis Winston.

I don't think he's coach material...he'll expect guys to practice and study as hard as he did, which will never happen.
RE: There isn't a funnier image than  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/24/2014 1:58 pm : link
In comment 11938775 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Peyton as a QB coach trying to get through to Jameis Winston.

I don't think he's coach material...he'll expect guys to practice and study as hard as he did, which will never happen.


Well he's existed in the NFL where most likely no one else on his team works as hard as him. You may very well be right maybe coaching Eli would be perfect. When he's be of a dick Eli can call Mom on him.

Dude is insanely wealthy so he won't ever have to work another day in his life but I can't see him walking away from football for long one way or another.
i think peyton loves football too much  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/24/2014 1:59 pm : link
To leave anything in the tank. I think he will play until he gets hurt or until he shows us a degree of decline that he won't tolerate. I dont think winning a superbowl will make him any more likely to retire. He will just chase another one. Despite all his aw shucks bullshit he is as legacy aware as anyone ive ever seen. He is going to want to add to his legend for as long as he can
Hes the Michael Jordan  
spike : 10/24/2014 2:07 pm : link
Of football
This type of hyperbole will never get you very far  
David in LA : 10/24/2014 2:14 pm : link
In comment 11938721 Stan from LA said:
Quote:
Worst move for a franchise in any sport in history.
Spike, he's nowhere close to Michael Jordan  
David in LA : 10/24/2014 2:15 pm : link
Michael got better in the postseason, Peyton came up small quite often.
RE: Hes the Michael Jordan  
Victor in CT : 10/24/2014 2:16 pm : link
In comment 11938792 spike said:
Quote:
Of football


except for the 6 rings
Would love to see a Peyton vs Colts playoff game  
Overseer : 10/24/2014 2:32 pm : link
followed by a Peyton vs Pats conference championship. That would be a huge treat for NFL fans. The conference championships are hands down the best weekend in football.

Assuming the Giants don't make the playoffs, I am all in for any team not named Eagles or Cowboys which obviously includes Peyton. Wouldn't mind him winning another one at all.
can't compare  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/24/2014 2:48 pm : link
a basketball player with a football player. A basketball player can be on the court for every single play in the game while representing 20% of his team's personnel on the floor. On top of that, basketball players deal in series in the postseason which makes it more likely that the better team will prevail and mitigate poor performances.
he is more wilt chamberlain  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/24/2014 2:55 pm : link
Who similarly saw his production fall in the postseason routinely, at least relative to his absurdly lofty regular season standard.

But i agree with paul that a cross sport comparison doesnt work
I respect and admire Peyton  
bceagle05 : 10/24/2014 3:41 pm : link
but I'll admit I find it highly entertaining watching him gag in the postseason every year. I don't necessarily root for it, and I sure as hell won't this year if he's the last line of defense against a Dallas or Philly championship, but it's amazing how bad he's been at times. If I were him it would annoy the shit outta me to be constantly referred to as the "best regular season QB of all time."

The only thing that should be pointed out, however, is that his playoff record is almost entirely from the divisional round onward, since he earned first round byes almost every year. So he's going against the best of the best, not padding his stats against some 8-8 patsy in the wild card round. That makes Brady's and Montana's postseason records all the more incredible, since they earned many first round byes themselves.
Peyton Manning  
SHO'NUFF : 10/24/2014 5:20 pm : link
is Eli Manning with the handcuffs off.
RE: Bottom line:  
speedywheels : 10/24/2014 8:12 pm : link
In comment 11938721 Stan from LA said:
Quote:
Dumb Colts let a Hall of Fame QB in his prime go for NOTHING. I get they got a nice your QB in his place, but not to get a damn thing for an MVP performer the last 3 years and maybe 3+ more years is insanity stupid. And, no, the salary cap/bonus situation could have been easily solved so Manning could have been traded for tons of high draft picks, but the idiotic Colts thought he was done so they let him leave for free.

Worst move for a franchise in any sport in history.


You posting the same stupid shit over and over - and OVER again - doesn't make it any less stupid.

But being stupid hasn't stopped you from posting before....
if Denver wins it all this year  
WeatherMan : 10/24/2014 8:40 pm : link
and it looks like they have the defense to do it this time, I think Peyton retires on the spot.
I think Peyton will run for public office when he retires....  
dannysection 313 : 10/24/2014 9:02 pm : link
Governor of Tennessee? Senator from Indiana?

I think he has aspirations that are more ambitious than coaching football when he retires. Just the way he dresses, makes himself available to the press, etc.

Wouldn't be the first time a football player went into politics (Jack Kemp, Steve Largent, J.C. Watts)after retiring.
RE: There isn't a funnier image than  
NINEster : 10/24/2014 11:30 pm : link
In comment 11938775 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Peyton as a QB coach trying to get through to Jameis Winston.

I don't think he's coach material...he'll expect guys to practice and study as hard as he did, which will never happen.


Agree.

Peyton doesn't have relatability with players as is, right now.

Will probably get worse down the road.

He's more the Wilt Chamberlain of football than MJ.  
BlueLou : 10/25/2014 2:17 am : link
Wilt: 13 seasons, arguably the greatest player ever (or at least most dominant) but only two championships despite playing on some very good teams...
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 10/25/2014 6:00 am : link
Dominating regular season QB, but his postseason record sticks out like a sore thumb.

I think he calls it quits if he gets that 2nd ring this season.
Various:  
Big Blue '56 : 10/25/2014 8:32 am : link
Paul: Championships only=for all the marbles

Victor: Absolutely on Unitas
I'm thinking  
mrvax : 10/25/2014 8:49 am : link
that if he wins a SB, he's done.
If he senses his skills declining due to age, he'll pack it in.
He probably could play for another 4 years at a fairly high level, IMO, barring a big injury.
RE: I'm thinking  
Big Blue '56 : 10/25/2014 8:54 am : link
In comment 11939385 mrvax said:
Quote:
that if he wins a SB, he's done.
If he senses his skills declining due to age, he'll pack it in.
He probably could play for another 4 years at a fairly high level, IMO, barring a big injury.


Easily, imo
maybe he can pick up some cash  
HomerJones45 : 10/25/2014 9:59 am : link
Doing commercials. He hasn't had a lot of exposure.
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