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| (CNN) -- Investigators are responding Friday to a reported school shooting in Marysville, Washington, just north of Seattle, said Inci Yarkut, a spokeswoman for the Washington State Patrol. CNN affiliate KIRO-TV in Seattle showed police cars and ambulances outside the school. Additional details were not immediately available. |
JUST IN: Providence Regional Hospital ER nurse confirms three patients have arrived with gunshot wounds, 1 in the head; 4th patient expected
+1000
BH. Yeah... I am just so tired of hearing about these incidents... it is just so absurd the amount of times these shootings are taking place now. Just unreal. As for here in Newtown... I cannot even explain how different it is here since Sandy Hook. It is still so awkward to bump into the parents around town who have lost their children. You just feel absolutely awful for them, yet you don't want to keep showing them any pity or any outward sadness because you feel quite sure they want to be able to go out without being reminded every single time.
And I can't even tell you the amount of people I run into that believe or half believe the conspiracy bullshit. It's just fucking enraging.
Yes, the individuals who commit these acts are to be held accountable but what is it about our culture that we are constantly killing each other.
As opposed to adults stabbing multiple kids in Chinese schools. But never mind, we're the Great Satan.
only criminals use guns....if you need to carry
a gun for self defense...then it would be a real
mess...mass shootout. ..sick world
The United State has a serious problem with death by firearm. Here's an article (from 2012, yes, but still) to back that up.
Guns - ( New Window )
Everything We Think We Know About Mass Shooters Is Wrong - ( New Window )
Gabby Giffords - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Of course it is. Because you don't agree with it.
It's not utopians at all. It's logic and mathematical probabilities.
Utopians are the ones that think we can have 400 million guns in circulation (or whatever number is the most accurate), have them sold in stores all over and NOT have shit like this and all the other tragedies caused by gun ownership. It's the height of wishful thinking, really.
And, on a more prosaic level, they're the kind of fucking idiots who think they can wave a magic wand, have a unicorn fart, and make the hundreds of millions of guns already in existence in this country disappear. Planning on doing house-to-house searches by SWAT teams?
And, on a more prosaic level, they're the kind of fucking idiots who think they can wave a magic wand, have a unicorn fart, and make the hundreds of millions of guns already in existence in this country disappear. Planning on doing house-to-house searches by SWAT teams?
Nah, you could have a buy back plan and stop the sale and manufacture of guns - other countries have done that with great success. Guns would become a lot more expensive and hard to obtain for disgruntled assholes who are approaching psychotic breaks. But the unicorn fart would be getting the 2nd Amendment defect removed from the constitution.
You want a constitutional amendment to cancel the 2A? Go for it! I'd love to see that. Wouldn't have a prayer in hell of passing.
You want a constitutional amendment to cancel the 2A? Go for it! I'd love to see that. Wouldn't have a prayer in hell of passing.
300 million guns x $750 (guesstamite avg buy back price)= $225,000,000,000
$225 Billion
What about the ammunition?
pathetic.
How would disarming law abiding citizens keep guns out of the hands of those that have no intention of abiding by the law? Look at the flow of illegals crossing the southern boarder and the drugs that the US tries to intercept every day. Still think that guns won't reach the hands of the mentally deficient and criminals?
Also, the main stream media never reports about the legal gun owner that stops the bad guys.
http://www.wjhl.com/story/26851008/1-dead-after-nc-grandfather-fires-back-at-trio-in-attempted-rape-of-teen-granddaughter-sheriff-says
LOL
You want a constitutional amendment to cancel the 2A? Go for it! I'd love to see that. Wouldn't have a prayer in hell of passing.
I know it won't pass. That's the unicorn farts. It remains a defect of the constitution and gun violence like this and all the other examples is the utterly obvious consequence.
How would disarming law abiding citizens keep guns out of the hands of those that have no intention of abiding by the law? Look at the flow of illegals crossing the southern boarder and the drugs that the US tries to intercept every day. Still think that guns won't reach the hands of the mentally deficient and criminals?
Also, the main stream media never reports about the legal gun owner that stops the bad guys.
http://www.wjhl.com/story/26851008/1-dead-after-nc-grandfather-fires-back-at-trio-in-attempted-rape-of-teen-granddaughter-sheriff-says
Argument 1) you can't stop guns from coming in. That's true. You can certainly make it a lot harder to get one.
Argument 2) Criminals will still get them - sure but a lot of the crime is not from 'criminals'. Adam Lanza wasn't a criminal until he decided to murder a shit load of kids.
Argument 3) Saving the day being suppressed by the media is a fantasy. There's no way it happens as often as people being accidentally shot, purposefully shot, or threatened by guns. Dream on.
Charles Whitman?
Yes, the individuals who commit these acts are to be held accountable but what is it about our culture that we are constantly killing each other.
Yet I am for gun ownership for the home and for hunting.
I don't have any answers for the gun debate.
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
Quote:
There is something wrong with our society. This shit only happens in America.
Yes, the individuals who commit these acts are to be held accountable but what is it about our culture that we are constantly killing each other.
Norway?
The poster was guilty of hyperbole. That should not distract from the core point: we have a bigger problem with school killings than any country on earth. What can we do about it?
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
Quote:
In comment 11938907 dontboobigblue said:
Quote:
There is something wrong with our society. This shit only happens in America.
Yes, the individuals who commit these acts are to be held accountable but what is it about our culture that we are constantly killing each other.
Norway?
The poster was guilty of hyperbole. That should not distract from the core point: we have a bigger problem with school killings than any country on earth. What can we do about it?
Not easy and i don't pretend to have all the answers (or any), but i'd start with education, heighten awareness of warning signs, don't repeal the 2nd amendment (as a gun owner I support it), but definitely impose more controls around the process to acquire firearms and make gun owners accountable for their guns security and liable for them (criminally) if they're used in a crime. general deterrents and education are where I'd start.
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
I don't think the "predictable anti-gun zealots" have a problem with the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment has a gun. "They" have a problem with every half-wit, nutcase, and psychotic having one. Can you comprehend the difference?
Did you actually read the piece in the ten minutes it took you to respond? If so you would see that much of the article focuses on the work done by Andre Simons, of the FBI's Critical Incident Response Group, and also references the work of Michelle Keeney of the Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center. I'm surprised you dismiss their experience and expertise so readily.
machine guns and leave for dead. ...
Sometimes riding 4 wheelers and drunk...
thats not how I hunted 25 years ago..
that really hate us yankees...like we're
still in civil war
You can hunt just fine with a traditional bolt or levered action rifle and you should be able to defend your home or person with most older styled traditional handguns. For that matter I think a shotgun makes for a better home protection weapon than most handguns.
Yes, the individuals who commit these acts are to be held accountable but what is it about our culture that we are constantly killing each other.
Yep, only in America. And only in recent times...
Or maybe not.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, let's let em keep dying.
SSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!
machine guns and leave for dead. ...
Sometimes riding 4 wheelers and drunk...
thats not how I hunted 25 years ago..
that really hate us yankees...like we're
still in civil war
ummmmmmmmmmm what?
Eliminating guns in the United States is not feasible, nor would it stop killings. It'd certainly reduce them, because it's far easier to kill with a gun than most alternatives. If someone's set on killing me, but they only have a knife vs a gun, they still might succeed in killing me, but I'd have a much better shot of getting away alive.
Also why do so many people think gun control = banning guns?
On the opposite end of the spectrum from the getting rid of all guns argument are the nutters that think them being armed would somehow help against government oppression. That argument made sense before tanks, cruise missles, aircraft, etc.
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Don't even wait for the bodies to cool. Some of you must really enjoy these opportunties to spout the same old anti-gun zealotry...
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
How idiotic.
I agree Randy. Its idiotic post like this that make me pessimistic about this country. It is truly sad.
No, but you are unarmed.
Nothing wrong with that. I was just explaining that you weren't unAmerican.
I'd guess if that figure is correct it's like income distribution 90% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the country (or whatever it is), guns are probably similar but less concentrated, I'd guess 75% of the firearms are owned by 33% of the population (or less).
As a new gun owner, it has nothing to do with protection (for me).
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
Because we support cops having guns?
Nope. That's the great thing about this country. It's your choice.
I agree with you, but I don't think that the folks you are describing, the ones "searching for answers", are the subject of his comment.
most of these murders are 20...30...going
thru emotional stages in life....half these guys
dont own a home or hunt ..so why should they
have a gun....jints....you haven't seen hunters
on side of road in nc drinkin while dogs are
chasing deer and they shoot from road
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
I agree with you, but I don't think that the folks you are describing, the ones "searching for answers", are the subject of his comment.
In that case I'll have to re-read the thread because I don't remember seeing any posts that I would describe as written by an ant-gun zealot.
Quote:
In comment 11939220 River Mike said:
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
I agree with you, but I don't think that the folks you are describing, the ones "searching for answers", are the subject of his comment.
In that case I'll have to re-read the thread because I don't remember seeing any posts that I would describe as written by an ant-gun zealot.
They're not hard to find...
Guns are the best!
BeerFridge : 3:38 pm : link : reply
America Fuck Yeah!
Quote:
In comment 11939227 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 11939220 River Mike said:
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
I agree with you, but I don't think that the folks you are describing, the ones "searching for answers", are the subject of his comment.
In that case I'll have to re-read the thread because I don't remember seeing any posts that I would describe as written by an ant-gun zealot.
They're not hard to find...
Guns are the best!
BeerFridge : 3:38 pm : link : reply
America Fuck Yeah!
Looks to me like a parody of gun zealots. Well, as with most things its a matter of perspective, and frankly I regret involving myself in this thread. Its polarizing and no win.
Quote:
In comment 11939235 River Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 11939227 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 11939220 River Mike said:
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
I agree with you, but I don't think that the folks you are describing, the ones "searching for answers", are the subject of his comment.
In that case I'll have to re-read the thread because I don't remember seeing any posts that I would describe as written by an ant-gun zealot.
They're not hard to find...
Guns are the best!
BeerFridge : 3:38 pm : link : reply
America Fuck Yeah!
Looks to me like a parody of gun zealots. Well, as with most things its a matter of perspective, and frankly I regret involving myself in this thread. Its polarizing and no win.
That's a shame because you're a great poster. I wish it was the halfwits that decide to leave threads and not the thoughtful posters...
The only zealots here are the ones who support gun rights under the guise of the constitution while 100 children are killed in schools every year with weapons that are so readily accessible one could toss a few newspapers for a month and have enough money to buy a weapon that shoots and has no consequences.
It's time to stop making them so available.
No, you should not be able to open a closet and have 20 rifles piled into it.
No, you should not be able to buy a firearm for $400
No, you should not be concerned about your constitutional rights being infringed on. Admit that you are a selfish, savage, animal and hoodlum who wants his gun collection and its OK that 100 children a year die because of it.
Ban them all and ship it to China.
The only thing that's morally bankrupt is the utter selfishness of gun toting savages that populate this country. These are the same people who say that there is no palatable solution.
Of course there isn't. They are the one who are morally bankrupt. The impasse of any kind of serious weapons debate lies with them, and they willingly sit on their hands while 100 children die every year in this country.
Yet, the majority of this thread proclaims that there is no solution available? That is the height of irresponsibility as a citizen.
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
The only thing that's morally bankrupt is the utter selfishness of gun toting savages that populate this country. These are the same people who say that there is no palatable solution.
Of course there isn't. They are the one who are morally bankrupt. The impasse of any kind of serious weapons debate lies with them, and they willingly sit on their hands while 100 children die every year in this country.
Yet, the majority of this thread proclaims that there is no solution available? That is the height of irresponsibility as a citizen.
I think you are right. Along with all the guns, ban alcohol and tobacco products and ship them to China too.
How the hell hasn't this ass clown been banned yet? So gun advocates are animals, hoodlums and any variation of the numerous names you called them. And you say it is THEM that is complaining about having an answer?
Ship them all to China! You're brilliant! Why didn't we all think of that?
The thing that really gets under my skin a bit, is that it seems that a lot of people that are pro-gun do not want to hear ANYTHING about more strict regulation. That just does not compute to me. I don't know what the answer is... but GOD does it make me sad to have to see people so often who lost their small children... still almost toddlers really... to some sick fuck whose mother decided it was a fantastic idea to hand over a fucking ARSENAL to. And I don't claim to have the answer, but I sure wish we could find... something, some happy medium.
What can be done. The gun belonged to the father, apparently legally. The gun should have been locked up and secured and the kid should not have been able to get it. All you can do is charge the parents with negligence. I don't think a new law is going to do anything for this case.
Nah, you could have a buy back plan and stop the sale and manufacture of guns - other countries have done that with great success. Guns would become a lot more expensive and hard to obtain for disgruntled assholes who are approaching psychotic breaks. But the unicorn fart would be getting the 2nd Amendment defect removed from the constitution.
Doesn't get more Utopian than that.
The thing that really gets under my skin a bit, is that it seems that a lot of people that are pro-gun do not want to hear ANYTHING about more strict regulation. That just does not compute to me. I don't know what the answer is... but GOD does it make me sad to have to see people so often who lost their small children... still almost toddlers really... to some sick fuck whose mother decided it was a fantastic idea to hand over a fucking ARSENAL to. And I don't claim to have the answer, but I sure wish we could find... something, some happy medium.
Looked that up too. No it is really 14 or 15. That 80 number is by Bloombergs group and the includes anything near a school.
But 14 or 15 is 14 or 15 too many....
How the hell hasn't this ass clown been banned yet? So gun advocates are animals, hoodlums and any variation of the numerous names you called them. And you say it is THEM that is complaining about having an answer?
Ship them all to China! You're brilliant! Why didn't we all think of that?
There has yet to be a single gun owner in this thread whose done anything to acknowledge the obvious, that this country has a serious issue with how its weapons consistently fall into the wrong hands, and now those hands are killing grade school children.
And I am being called accused of bring useless? This is buffoonery.
Again, you all weapon toting animals are utterly shameless and know no bounds. Hundreds of grade school children die and you all remain unmovable.
Utterly shameful and beyond disgusting.
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
What can be done. The gun belonged to the father, apparently legally. The gun should have been locked up and secured and the kid should not have been able to get it. All you can do is charge the parents with negligence. I don't think a new law is going to do anything for this case.
Defeatist.
Weapons toting neanderthals refuse to have a serious dicussion with regard to why their weapons consistently fall into the wrong hands.
Children die
Officers senselessly targeted and killed in cold blood
High school children die
And all of these weapons toting hoodlums continue to sit on their hands and utilize the guise of the constitution as a means to continue stocking up their weapons while more and more innocent people die.
And, on a more prosaic level, they're the kind of fucking idiots who think they can wave a magic wand, have a unicorn fart, and make the hundreds of millions of guns already in existence in this country disappear. Planning on doing house-to-house searches by SWAT teams?
Which kind wears jorts? Because that's the side I want to oppose. Oh, and the guns. Having them is f'ing stupid.
I didn't see any of you rush to the keyboard when the Sergeant at Arms in the Canadian Parliment stopped a terrorist with his gun...
A former law enforcement official carrying a sidearm is much different than somebody who wants to use a pistol to take down his venison and leave it accessible to his kid.
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
What can be done. The gun belonged to the father, apparently legally. The gun should have been locked up and secured and the kid should not have been able to get it. All you can do is charge the parents with negligence. I don't think a new law is going to do anything for this case.
Charge the gun's owner with murder - or at the very least, manslaughter - and buy stock in padlock companies.
Defeatist.
Weapons toting neanderthals refuse to have a serious dicussion with regard to why their weapons consistently fall into the wrong hands.
Children die
Officers senselessly targeted and killed in cold blood
High school children die
And all of these weapons toting hoodlums continue to sit on their hands and utilize the guise of the constitution as a means to continue stocking up their weapons while more and more innocent people die.
I don't own a gun, although I'd like to, for personal protection. But rhetoric like the stuff you are spouting here is why there is no consensus on guns. If you want to call us Neanderthals or hoodlums, you aren't going to get anywhere. You are a big part of the problem.
Personally I think parents who let their kids drive are worse:
Deaths. Each Year over 5,000 teens ages 16 to 20 Die due to Fatal injuries caused Car accidents. About 400,000 drivers age 16 to 20 will be seriously injured.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Defeatist.
Weapons toting neanderthals refuse to have a serious dicussion with regard to why their weapons consistently fall into the wrong hands.
Children die
Officers senselessly targeted and killed in cold blood
High school children die
And all of these weapons toting hoodlums continue to sit on their hands and utilize the guise of the constitution as a means to continue stocking up their weapons while more and more innocent people die.
I don't own a gun, although I'd like to, for personal protection. But rhetoric like the stuff you are spouting here is why there is no consensus on guns. If you want to call us Neanderthals or hoodlums, you aren't going to get anywhere. You are a big part of the problem.
Personally I think parents who let their kids drive are worse:
Quote:
Teenage Driver Facts:
Deaths. Each Year over 5,000 teens ages 16 to 20 Die due to Fatal injuries caused Car accidents. About 400,000 drivers age 16 to 20 will be seriously injured.
Link - ( New Window )
Laughable with the driving analogy.
You send your children to school, and the inherent risk is now that some weapons toting fish thats been indoctrinated into a mindset of shoot to kill is a tangible risk that you need to account for when you drop off your child? How many of these incidents need to occur until the weapons toting gorillas admit that they are the most dangerous and lethal threat to children in america?
And the best retort is that driving is dangerous?
Again, the only rhetoric in this thread is the standard weapons toting GI Joe wannabes saying that there's nothing that can be done. That's laughable and shameful.
Ban them all and ship them to China. Before more weapons supporting lunatics get children and law enforcement officers senselessly killed.
Quote:
In comment 11939220 River Mike said:
Quote:
lifelong hunter, skeetshooter, etc. I have a bunch of guns and 5 multi stage reloaders. I am not anti gun by any stretch. But to call the posters on this thread anti-gun zealots just paints you as a non-thinking moron. tragedies like this are way too common, and if they didn't stir discussion of what if anything can be done about it would make me wonder what was wrong with my countrymen. Honestly, I cannot think of any palatable form of gun control that would end or even substantially curtail these horrors. But to not at least try to search for answers, and worse yet, deamonize those who do is morally bankrupt
What can be done. The gun belonged to the father, apparently legally. The gun should have been locked up and secured and the kid should not have been able to get it. All you can do is charge the parents with negligence. I don't think a new law is going to do anything for this case.
Charge the gun's owner with murder - or at the very least, manslaughter - and buy stock in padlock companies.
Whatever, do it with impunity. The malaise in this country about how weapons are handled is downright frightening.
Everywhere you go, you meet and read about these weapons terrorists shovel off blame under the guise of :
Poor technique, he should've never let that 9 year old shoot an Uzi.
Poor training, poor safety practices, whatever.
These people are terrorists and would rather you believe that guns in their closet makes for a safer community while lunatics like frein and dorner assassinate officers, not to mention that batman guy and sandy hook.
Its time we stop trusting these terrorists that each and every instance of weapons violence is a product of poor practice.
Because it isn't. There is a systemic failure with how this country handles its weapons. We are not smart enough to do so, and its time for us to either tell these terrorists they can't have weapons for the greater good of all.
Something you really seem to lack.
You will need to arm yourself for this inevitability.
Troll.
You will need to arm yourself for this inevitability.
Troll.
When you decide to construct an argument or deconstruct mine, I will reconcile that.
Until then I generally just ignore people who troll bait.
Again, construct an argument.
Equating youth driving and school shooting demonstrates none, zero perspective for reasons I originally wrote. There is no shot that it can be considered analogous; again, for the same reasons I already explained: there is an infinitesimally small but tangible risk that should not exist when you send your child to school. This risk should not even exist in the forefront of any concerns you have for your child at school. Nothing like youth driving.
The other carries the unfortunate risk of causing harm, maiming, or killing people associated with its use, and not the express purpose of its existence.
Mental health. Period.
This country's handling of the mental health problem is downright sickening. Pathetic. Sad and terrifying.
Maybe this kid wasn't suffering from a mental health problem but most of these shooters are. What's being done for the mentally sick in this country? Do the research and see for yourself. It's a fucking disgrace.
Carry on.
Do the research. You will be appalled and ashamed that the "greatest country in the world" does everything it can to ignore and systematically hide the mentally disturbed, until that individual goes on a shooting spree. Only then is it time to address that person.
The chicken has come home to roost. The system is fucking busted and arguing over hot talking points like gun control won't matter in the end.
There are broken and disturbed minds running around the streets unchecked and uncared for. And it's only going to get worse.
For one reason or other Natives have inordinate amounts of suicides of kids. This was sort of a kill others suicide thing. Stats bear this out in some places it is almost epidemic.
ARe they all just mentally illI don't think so. It has to do with culture, perceived opportunities, things like that. Pretty much for Natives it all seems a bit bleak, the future I mean. So you have a problem with your love life a thing like that it becomes the end all be all and you can think of nothing else that is importanta lll else sucks so bad.
These things happen due to mental illness in all areas with all peoples as we know. But just adding there may be a nuance to it in this specific case.
AS to gun control I don't live in Alaska but NM. And I can still probably find a article in our local paper that showed a bear breaking into a persons house, their kitchen not a mile from where I live.That same bear broke into our kids playhouse as a field mouse was living under it and it thought it could get it by getting into the door. This a while back now about 7 or so years but i just saw fresh bear tracks(abeit a juvenile bear) just 3 weeks ago. Bears live here with us always.
I carry a machete and a bat when I jog. And have a five shot hand gun(as it is lighter) for when I backpack and a shot gun with slug shot for at home.
So this self protection needing guns thing is not just a alaska thing. WE are nowhere near that remote, nor do we hunt for any of our food here, (shooting actually being outlawed in these national forests as they are just to close to homes) and being a twenty minute drive from a big city but have the same type issues as they are.
But also on that issue of gun control.we do live a 20 minute drive from half a million people. They allowed peoples to target shoot here in these forests years ago. It became a shooting range. My neighbors hours second floor where their kids slept had a bullet go right through the wall.
They were and I do not exaggerate or lie. shooting fully automatic weapons in a parallel line to the road in a certain spot that carried school children on many school buses. A target range of sorts they had set up. This I actually saw when I was picking up my kids. Peoples are idiotic with guns.
Peoples gun usage needs to be regulated. We were very lucky we did not have a misshot or such happen and had kids hit. Peoples are to stupid to allow to use guns as they see fit. Seeing fit is with the stupid stupidly.
I came across just last year despite the outlaw of it, a person in a arroyo not 30 feet from a major marked trail, and this arroyo filled with boulders any one of which can cause a bullet to go any which way.
People are stupid like as not we need regulations. We also however need guns quite often in many places they are for self protection. So guns are needed as well.
I may be able to protect myself with a gun and machete a family member may need a shotgun.
For one reason or other Natives have inordinate amounts of suicides of kids. This was sort of a kill others suicide thing. Stats bear this out in some places it is almost epidemic.
ARe they all just mentally illI don't think so. It has to do with culture, perceived opportunities, things like that. Pretty much for Natives it all seems a bit bleak, the future I mean. So you have a problem with your love life a thing like that it becomes the end all be all and you can think of nothing else that is importanta lll else sucks so bad.
These things happen due to mental illness in all areas with all peoples as we know. But just adding there may be a nuance to it in this specific case.
AS to gun control I don't live in Alaska but NM. And I can still probably find a article in our local paper that showed a bear breaking into a persons house, their kitchen not a mile from where I live.That same bear broke into our kids playhouse as a field mouse was living under it and it thought it could get it by getting into the door. This a while back now about 7 or so years but i just saw fresh bear tracks(abeit a juvenile bear) just 3 weeks ago. Bears live here with us always.
I carry a machete and a bat when I jog. And have a five shot hand gun(as it is lighter) for when I backpack and a shot gun with slug shot for at home.
So this self protection needing guns thing is not just a alaska thing. WE are nowhere near that remote, nor do we hunt for any of our food here, (shooting actually being outlawed in these national forests as they are just to close to homes) and being a twenty minute drive from a big city but have the same type issues as they are.
But also on that issue of gun control.we do live a 20 minute drive from half a million people. They allowed peoples to target shoot here in these forests years ago. It became a shooting range. My neighbors hours second floor where their kids slept had a bullet go right through the wall.
They were and I do not exaggerate or lie. shooting fully automatic weapons in a parallel line to the road in a certain spot that carried school children on many school buses. A target range of sorts they had set up. This I actually saw when I was picking up my kids. Peoples are idiotic with guns.
Peoples gun usage needs to be regulated. We were very lucky we did not have a misshot or such happen and had kids hit. Peoples are to stupid to allow to use guns as they see fit. Seeing fit is with the stupid stupidly.
I came across just last year despite the outlaw of it, a person in a arroyo not 30 feet from a major marked trail, and this arroyo filled with boulders any one of which can cause a bullet to go any which way.
People are stupid like as not we need regulations. We also however need guns quite often in many places they are for self protection. So guns are needed as well.
I may be able to protect myself with a gun and machete a family member may need a shotgun.
Ron, excellent post.
I thank you for not being a weapons right terrorist.
Your story about the stray bullets in your neighbor's house is both dumbfounding and haunting. It surely underscores the need for weapons access and usage to be more striclay regulated.
People nowadays are like as not stupid. Blame the educational system or whatever they just do not think.
Both sides are wrong in this. Guns are needed in many by geographical consideration most part of America. Guns also need to be regulated as people are that stupid.
This kid. guns are part and parcel of native americans culture, all those that are not urban. A gun is always at hand, it is like a wood burning stove also present in most homes just a thing you learn how to handle and live around safely.
That kid in Sandy hook was plainly insane. Should his mom have allowed him access to guns..heck no. This kid probably not what we consider in the way of things insane at all. Coming from a culture with problems and guns being inherently available in that culture, it caused a tragedy.
Both sides glom onto this with ideologs pushing agenda. On one side no regulation. On the other no guns at all ever.
The problem is with the ideologs not with the thing. It is a thing with much nuance and the truth of the best handling of it lies in the middle what is most practical for most cases. Not perfect but what works the best for most.
And in exceptional unusual circumstances which are not the norm as with this kid coming from a unusual culture in America a perhaps unusual consideration of the issue.
The tragedies will continue until we become less ideological on this and more practical. Here with shots coming into houses, I personally heard shots sail over my house as I live near a picnic ground and that is where it was easiest to shoot, and nevertheless the damage to people potentially it would cost me 15K or so to replace a roof shot up. How can you live if that is allowed? It did not happen but that is just lucky.
Gun rights own em shoot em when we want..B.S.
Don't own them at all and when a bear comes in my kitchen window I should what.yell at it? B.S. as well.
This is not rocket science this is mostly easy to solve. Guns are easy to live with and regulate.
The issue, as ron alludes to, is that the country is longer governed from the middle. Reasonable incremental regulation is opposed from fringe gun elements, while the opposite fringe spends its time jousting with useless concepts like the "gun culture".
What we need is a roadmap that accepts that guns will be present in society, while at the same time increasing requirements for training, purchasing and storing.
I continue to think that a useful economic lever to pull would be taxes that increase the cost to purchase, even under existing standards, any type of firearm. The incremental revenue could be used to fund buybacks in certain areas.
The forest service then put in place as the community was so outraged a special order that says for the protection and safety of the community you may not shoot ever in this forest except to protect yourself from a animal attack or some such thing. It is renewed every two years.
The NRA says this is always a step to outlaw all guns this type of thing. It was after all the federal government the local forest ranger who held and conducted these talks. He outlawed all use, even paint balls.
No no no.it was that and remains that. WE all have guns here I think each and every one of us for the reasons mentioned. No one has come to take our guns nor proposing that we be suffered more regulations.they are not necessary. The county also disallows target shooting overall. You go to a range to do that. Pay a small fee and you shoot. Only cheap worthless B*&^%$ want to target shoot for free and endanger other people and property.
This kid sad but I see really considering the cultural context little could have been done in the way of mental illness to identify him.
In this specific considering things as they are.I would probably consider metal detecters by the school entrance.
Arm teachers and all that.B.S. It takes training and a certain type of person to shoot another. Teachers are just not those type peoples, Occasionally but not normally. A occasional one who is and who is trained able to carryI guess. But really that is very rare you will find a teacher in say a elementary schools who it like that. Other than that specific guns by teachers the chances are it will be mishandled some kid will get into it and a tragedy will then ensue. and if a shooter ever comes inthey will like as not shoot themselves some poor innocent just walking around as the shooter.
Teachers are not cops. It is hard enough to just get good teachers nevertheless teachers qualified in weaponry.that is really just silly.
Is it perfectheck no. There are fully plastic guns and if you really had about a year or so to search and whatnot you could even find bullets which will not register on a metal detector.
But is is not perfect in this community it would work perfectly. This is just a kid who was love sick saw what was happening all over and being a kid stupid and depressed he decided to try it. That is all this type school will probably ever see. Not a idiot sevant who will plan a attack years in advance, a totally insane person. The screening for insane like that sandy hook kid should catch that nut job.
So it varies what we should do but does indeed lie in the middle and varies by threat type anticipated and local culture.
I see no reason that training cannot be a requirement for a purchase. I think most states require a hunter safety course to get a hunting license. So why not a license for sport shooting or self defense.
So how you do that retroactively, idk.
It is more like common ownership and use than personal. If say you have cattle and you drive around you may keep a rifle with you in your pick up, if you see a coyote hanging around and you have young calfs you may shoot it..they kill them. You going home put the rifle in the house maybe in a corner or some place you keep them. But if your son or daughter is feeding the sheep or some such kept around the house they may get the same gun if they see a coyote around and shoot it also. They eat sheep.
This is like going on since the kids were perhaps 9 or so. At the first time they can physically pick up the rifle and shoot it. Without dropping it and shooting themselves. Handguns are pretty unusual in this context. And how much can you train a 9 year old in a formal class which really has to be done at home. So then when they turn 18 go train them? This kid for instance was like 14.
Gun usage at that age on the resold hat he has down it probably for 5 years or so.
And rural cowboy culture type thing it is the same as on the res. I don't know this particular kids res where he lived but it may well be like this.
Generally every specific requires a different response. What you say may be perfectly appropriate for a young kid in the suburbs or city, who goes hunting with his or her dad once a year. Maybe his folks are into the hobby of target shooting then that would also apply. Train them first, then take them out and perhaps have that concurrent with the gun purchase, their first gun.
Other places that would be totally out of context for them. these other places the gun is a tool like a rake or shovel. In city or suburban it is a hobby.
So blanket rules they usually don't work is my point. Good point yours and I agree in some contexts that is preferable, the NRA in fact(who to my opinion totally suck on the gun law thing) is actually pretty good on the training part when to and by who.
But the NRA doesn't know a single bit about really the completely rural perhaps reservation context. Mostly they may be rurally based but really such context nowadays cowboys and reservations are not their membership.
Urban cowboys only their membership reflects really. Maybe hobbyist farmers or ranchers to my opinion..another context.
So it is quite complex this thing and the various responses to it. This kid native as he was I am a bit familiar with it.
Due to culture really he would never be identified as having mental illness. A physical impediment such as a metal detector with a monitor, or some similar set up I think is the only real way in this specific.
I am not familiar with them but did attend a Navajo religious ceremony three years ago, that is used to get demons out of those who have certain medical problems. In this one, shooters with rifles are spread out on the corners of a certain direction. At a certain part of the ceremony the spirit is chased out and the shooters shoot the rifles to scare it away so it will not come back.
Keep in mind this kid he came from that type of environment where a rifle may even be a part of a religious ceremony. You won't see that in church ;)
So it is just so different we can't really have blanket rules in most context like this.
I just got my LTC (license to carry) in MA, and I had to take a one-day (really 4-hour) basic firearm safety course. no restrictions. I did have to go through a criminal background check and pass all their requirements, and then it's still up to the discretion of the local police chief to allow the license or not.
I wouldn't mind more requirements - safety training, insurance, lock purchase, and liability as a gun owner to help prevent unintended consequences of my licensed firearm (firearms eventually).
I know it would sound like that but no it is my context. That ceremony was done for my son in laws mother. A real big deal in the community it took a week to perform about thirty or so people with a medicine man, with the climax being the last day with the shootings of the rifles. I am not native but married into it(since divorced) but my kids are and continue with the traditional ways in part.
So nuance is present with this thing of guns most have never before even heard of. We know largely only our own things.
How can you overtly outlaw them or overtly allow them everywhere alwayswe can't do either by my take.
He would be safe with a gun in any context.
Others are quite not that description..as many are out there that quite suck and will and do put others at risk, Crazy people as well.
There is a middle ground on this thing but it must be nuanced to context we find them in.
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I will stop short of saying many without further research - require training for a pistol license (CT, being one, six week course, once a week). Long guns require no such course in CT, for reference.
I just got my LTC (license to carry) in MA, and I had to take a one-day (really 4-hour) basic firearm safety course. no restrictions. I did have to go through a criminal background check and pass all their requirements, and then it's still up to the discretion of the local police chief to allow the license or not.
I wouldn't mind more requirements - safety training, insurance, lock purchase, and liability as a gun owner to help prevent unintended consequences of my licensed firearm (firearms eventually).
I agree with all of that, but what I struggle with is that ultimately we are legislating against random chaotic events - none of your reasonable incremental legislation (which I would support) would have kept the gun out of Lanza's hands.
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I agree with all of that, but what I struggle with is that ultimately we are legislating against random chaotic events - none of your reasonable incremental legislation (which I would support) would have kept the gun out of Lanza's hands.
It would have likely changed the type of weapons accessible to Lanza.
But no, gun laws aren't the key to the Sandy Hooks or Columbine's - the issue is one of mental health and culture - I honestly believe cable news has a hell of a lot more to do with mass shootings than guns.
These sorts of incidents were few and far between prior to the 90's - there is a relation between these mental illnesses and the idea of wreaking havoc and knowing that everyone in America with a TV is going to know about it. It is a bizarre form of self-serving terrorism.
And it's here to stay.
That's not to say that pursuing reasonable gun laws isn't a worthy pursuit. Our national gun death and gun homicide rates are awfully high (though dropping in recent decades on a per-capita basis). Sadly, it's become nearly impossible to have a rational discussion on guns in this country.
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Nah, you could have a buy back plan and stop the sale and manufacture of guns - other countries have done that with great success. Guns would become a lot more expensive and hard to obtain for disgruntled assholes who are approaching psychotic breaks. But the unicorn fart would be getting the 2nd Amendment defect removed from the constitution.
Doesn't get more Utopian than that.
Not at all Utopian, or you don't understand the meaning of the word. This is an actual thing that has happened in other countries and worked. The second amendment currently prohibits doing the things that have worked elsewhere.
Guns are incredibly efficient and dangerous devices designed to kill. If you create a society where there is basically one gun per person in the US, you increase the odds of shit like this happening. Or accidental death from handguns. Or fights that escalate to murder. Or suicide. It's just fucking mathematical probability.
With that said, more can be done to limit the accessability of guns.
Most of the times, these types of dicussions attract the extremes, and many of the middle of the road sorts, just choose not to get involved.
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Guns are incredibly efficient and dangerous devices designed to kill. If you create a society where there is basically one gun per person in the US, you increase the odds of shit like this happening. Or accidental death from handguns. Or fights that escalate to murder. Or suicide. It's just fucking mathematical probability.
eh, if you look at police/fbi statistics, you'll see guns are not very efficient if the measuring stick is that they are designed to kill.
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In comment 11940088 buford said:
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Guns are incredibly efficient and dangerous devices designed to kill. If you create a society where there is basically one gun per person in the US, you increase the odds of shit like this happening. Or accidental death from handguns. Or fights that escalate to murder. Or suicide. It's just fucking mathematical probability.
eh, if you look at police/fbi statistics, you'll see guns are not very efficient if the measuring stick is that they are designed to kill.
Well, compared to other modes of killing people.
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In comment 11940916 pjcas18 said:
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I agree with all of that, but what I struggle with is that ultimately we are legislating against random chaotic events - none of your reasonable incremental legislation (which I would support) would have kept the gun out of Lanza's hands.
It would have likely changed the type of weapons accessible to Lanza.
But no, gun laws aren't the key to the Sandy Hooks or Columbine's - the issue is one of mental health and culture - I honestly believe cable news has a hell of a lot more to do with mass shootings than guns.
These sorts of incidents were few and far between prior to the 90's - there is a relation between these mental illnesses and the idea of wreaking havoc and knowing that everyone in America with a TV is going to know about it. It is a bizarre form of self-serving terrorism.
And it's here to stay.
That's not to say that pursuing reasonable gun laws isn't a worthy pursuit. Our national gun death and gun homicide rates are awfully high (though dropping in recent decades on a per-capita basis). Sadly, it's become nearly impossible to have a rational discussion on guns in this country.
People in general get far to hung up on the type of gun, without any understanding, which is why we end up with legislation based on purely cosmetic factors, which is a waste of time and only makes politicans look like they accomplished something.
But considering the normalcy of guns in the native american culture as I describe, a metal detector and someone to watch it when the kids come in would make a lot of sense. Again it is not perfect you could still play the system but the perception of monitoring would likely stop this sort of thing from happening in the school. He would still likely do it but choose another place in the community.But schools since they have largely defenseless kids should be more safe than other places.
Gun control in this specificthis kid had nothing which would throw up a red flag on mental illness..virtually nothing.
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Defeatist.
Weapons toting neanderthals refuse to have a serious dicussion with regard to why their weapons consistently fall into the wrong hands.
Children die
Officers senselessly targeted and killed in cold blood
High school children die
And all of these weapons toting hoodlums continue to sit on their hands and utilize the guise of the constitution as a means to continue stocking up their weapons while more and more innocent people die.
I don't own a gun, although I'd like to, for personal protection. But rhetoric like the stuff you are spouting here is why there is no consensus on guns. If you want to call us Neanderthals or hoodlums, you aren't going to get anywhere. You are a big part of the problem.
Personally I think parents who let their kids drive are worse:
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Teenage Driver Facts:
Deaths. Each Year over 5,000 teens ages 16 to 20 Die due to Fatal injuries caused Car accidents. About 400,000 drivers age 16 to 20 will be seriously injured.
Link - ( New Window )
No parallel or argument is more specious than pointing out car deaths in a gun control argument. I don't even think I'm being hyperbolic in saying that.
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In comment 11940088 buford said:
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Guns are incredibly efficient and dangerous devices designed to kill. If you create a society where there is basically one gun per person in the US, you increase the odds of shit like this happening. Or accidental death from handguns. Or fights that escalate to murder. Or suicide. It's just fucking mathematical probability.
eh, if you look at police/fbi statistics, you'll see guns are not very efficient if the measuring stick is that they are designed to kill.
Really? Is there some other object that has a higher rate of success when it is utilized in an attempt to kill?
Why do so many pro gun people always seem to dismiss the ability of the gun? If they suck so bad, why want one?
In a urban environment or suburban.that is all they are for.
Mostly they are carried to protect your livestock with. This is why the cowboys carried guns and still do if you go to places like the Pecos wilderness in New Mexico. It is not even remotely connected to protection or shooting peoples. The coyotes gang up and will take on young cattle. So they shoot them to protect them. Rez out on the rez even if he did not personally live their his family comes from their and this is the context of that there.
Again in this context a gun is a tool to do something nothing more. Kill yes but likely a coyote or perhaps a rattler.
So kids having access to them and all that.my suggestion remains.
We put on FREE concealed carry courses for women at a friend of mine's house who is a instructor. He never charges. He puts them on for cops, firemen, etc. Yes, cops have to go through the course in order to walk into a gun store and buy a weapon without a waiting period.
Already have another 2 interested.
We put on FREE concealed carry courses for women at a friend of mine's house who is a instructor. He never charges. He puts them on for cops, firemen, etc. Yes, cops have to go through the course in order to walk into a gun store and buy a weapon without a waiting period.
Already have another 2 interested.
Now that right there is something I can get behind.
As long as we are going to support easily accessible guns, I wish we'd mandate a training course before the gun even winds up in the purchaser's cold, living hands. Not only would they be obviously be more educated, perhaps more careful, and possibly more respectful towards guns, but they could possibly be more likely to be noticed by an experience firearm instructor as someone ubfit to handle or own a gun.
WE may carry guns everywhere excepting where guns are normally prohibited, as long as they are openly displayed.
So concealed carry hereis a bit of a joke to me. Though we have that here to. I mean what is the significance of that if you legally can open carry.
Bunches of people do I see it all the time. I do when backpacking.
Seems to me way better than concealed carry.
Just my opinion though.
By the way, our reses have their own laws also.
See no reason for public open carry except to flaunt that you can.
Don't think of Florida as Disney and beaches.
You wold be sorely mistaken.
IMHO
Few I think are carrying them to show off. My 80 year old neighbor always carried openly, he didn't give a capital F on what people thought, he walked on the trails and needed it to protect from animals.so why not?
I don't as I'm not that old yet but when I am I expect I will as well. In a bad area probably as wellold people are targets. They will not F with you if you open carry.
Your in the woods, everyone is open carry. That is everywhere.
I'm talking the citizens who have to have a rifle slung over their shoulder while grocery shopping.
That's just pushing the issue.
I'm not that old yet but fully intend to do exactly that when I am. Old people are targets. I don't anticipate ever using it but it will discourage any from trying.
Prevents a incident from occurring. They see it they don't even hazard the chance. It's unfortunately in this day and age how we have to act if perceived vulnerable.
Concealed way way different. Prevents nothing really. Criminals assume no gun that's why they act as they do. They target who they think has not a gun.
So I have one I may actually have to use it. I really don't want to do that.
Open probably that will never happen.
law abiding gun owner kills family just after he decides to no longer abide laws. - ( New Window )
Perfectly sane people kill their daughter and granddaughter every day.
Perfectly sane people kill their daughter and granddaughter every day.
Oh, there are crazy people out there, you say? maybe it's not a good idea to have one gun out there for every person in the US?
So most don't even know this kids context, how and when they use guns in his family and his neighbors eyes.
There was not a single indicator of mental illness prior to the incident. He was 14 but even in american culture overall 14 year olds have access to guns for hunting and such.
It is hard to admit but really sans a physical barrier of sorts, a weapons detector or monitoring there is no way to stop this,
Should we screen out those with a history of mental illness and felons from having guns certainly, and there do exist still loopholes which enable both to purchase them at gun shows in many states.
But that is just not applicable to this kid.
Concealed way way different. Prevents nothing really. Criminals assume no gun that's why they act as they do. They target who they think has not a gun.
So I have one I may actually have to use it. I really don't want to do that.
Open probably that will never happen.
There is nothing wrong with carrying guns openly. A gun carried does nothing at all. In fact I mention one can even carry with it unloaded. It prevents things.
It is true this is a sad statement on the current state of society but we cannot deny it is what it is.
All those women trained in Florida if they are attacked and pull out a gun they have to probably use it. If they have a bun in a holsterthey never get attacked at all.
A petite feminine woman is a target just as a old person is. Carrying a open carry gun.why not?
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for all states to have open carry. Prevents things from happening. Don't know how to use one keep it unloaded then. None knows if it is or not. So they don't hazard it.
Concealed way way different. Prevents nothing really. Criminals assume no gun that's why they act as they do. They target who they think has not a gun.
So I have one I may actually have to use it. I really don't want to do that.
Open probably that will never happen.
There is so much wrong with this post I will just say that us moving forward as a civilization isn't helped by everyone carrying a gun.
I may be wrong here, but I doubt that Ron is promoting everyone carrying a gun. I think he is saying that states should have open carry rather than conceal carry. I think it's a valid point. I would think that law abiding citizens that are carrying openly would be a deterrent as opposed to someone that is concealed carrying.
Concealed carry leads to shootings. Open carry does not usually. Of course in most circumstance neither is necessary as most of us are not vulnerable nor being in places at which the vulnerable are at danger. Say walking through a barrio late at night.
So it is mote. But if I did feel necessary to conceal carry.. the state instead should have a open carry law like here, so I may do that and likely not have ever to shoot anyone.
They will leave you alone like as not.
They will not. No stats are really necessary.
Do people f*&^ with people who are vulnerable.. yes.
So combine the two... a open carried gun makes one appear not vulnerable when a concealed carry does not..this thing can be logically worked through.
WE should not throw logic out the window just because this is a issue of guns.
So perceived vulnerable but really not being as one has a concealed gunone has to what? likely use the gun to protect oneself if summed up in this way by low lives who prey on the vulnerable.
No stats and not made up but thought through
But open carry here any can do it and with no special training.
The industry to my opinion wants concealed carry as they all require in every state training specific to that which requires special qualified teachers and concurrent to that every concealed carry requires usually holsters of a special sort and usually a special weapon which allows concealed carry without it making you look ridiculous.
So there are all sorts of sales made there.
Open carry if you have a handgun you can and usually require the purchase of nothing and no training specific to concealed.
Log is right I am not advocating for just going around everywhere carrying guns but if you do... your state should have open carry not concealed.
Concealed is a joke unless you are a cop or some such.
Put into place by the industry to sell things..though again there are no stats to show that.
think about it stats don't solve all our problems nor answer all our questions
IN the context of this kid here, it is more like our context than conn.here in NM we have reservations kids like that.it is similar.
Would NM laws work in Conn..heck no. Conn In NM.heck no.
Some laws have to be national such as who can purchase them the felons and mentally ill always excluded. Some have to be local or state. Some cities virtually outlaw them as it is so convoluted the process to get one and keep one and that is ok for that place. Rural places a bit more like buying a hoe or a shovel or chainsaw, still the fed guidelines but absent that,,,nothing. For reasona gun to a city person is one thing to a country person another.
I think city people are a bit absurd on the issue but that again is personal. We had a neighbor hood meeting once where I live. A women who just moved up there was going on and on about her gun. the large caliber it was and this and that. I assume she had just purchased it. We living here for years and years..all of us have guns to protect from wild animals and used to be the sheriff he was 20 minutes awaybut no one said a thing to that lady. It was like funny but we didn't laugh as it would be rude. We don't go on and on about guns we all have them, know generally how to use them and that is that. There are a thousand more things to talk about more interesting than guns. Cities they have a mystic about guns. It is BS.here
Like I say in NM concealed is a joke. In fla since they don't have open carryno. So it depends.