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Would having David Wilson on team made a difference?

kinard : 10/24/2014 3:02 pm
Of course, losing Jennings for the two divisional games has torpedoed the season at this point...

Was just wondering, though, how David Wilson would have fared in the two games if he could have been used as a 1-2 punch with Andre Williams. Keeping in mind how horrendous the run blocking is, Wilson's skill set may have been much better suited to finding a few holes, catching a couple of passes and keeping the defense more honest than the idea of simply slamming Williams straight ahead without any threat he might catch a pass.

Williams, it seems to me, is at his best as a change-of-pace runner and he and Wilson could have been a pretty interesting combo.

In this fan's mind, though, the issues have been more on the other side of the ball, but I still think Wilson may have really brought something to the table to the offense in these last 2 games.

I know its all a moot point, but isn't the bye week all about speculating anyway?

Useless fact of the day: Larry Donnell has as many fumbles in 7 games as Wilson did in his entire career. I always felt Couglin scape-goated Wilson for his ball security. Wonder if Donnell gets the same treatment....
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As a kick returner  
pjcas18 : 10/24/2014 3:32 pm : link
he could have helped. Cox is terrible, Demps isn't any better, and no Jernigan or holliday.

he had over 1500 yards returning kicks in 2012.

for reference in 2013 they had 900 as a team.

600 yards is almost 40 yards a game.

So debate all you want about his speed impact on the running game or short passing attack, but there is no debate he would have had an impact on the KR.
eric  
SBlue46 : 10/24/2014 3:33 pm : link
IMO Jenkins plays 3 or 4 games...goes on ir...
we need a speedy rb....we got 44...hillis...cox
big backs....suprised we didn't sign jones
now and put cox on ps....this helps screens for
eli...jenkins was good....or maybe let odel do
some rb or parker..this will free up 9 in box..



RE: the giants made it clear  
kinard : 10/24/2014 3:40 pm : link
"...he could not get pass protection down, looking downright silly/soft at times, and his fumbling was a real issue."

Sounds like you could be talking about Donnell here. See what I mean? If Coughlin "dog-housed" Wilson for the same problems why wouldn't he send the same message to the team regarding Donnell?

Now, I'm not by any means advocating benching Donnell, but the situation is kind of similar.
summer salts?  
YAJ2112 : 10/24/2014 3:41 pm : link
gotta love the bossman
Watching Branden Oliver  
Ben in Tampa : 10/24/2014 4:01 pm : link
Last night made me sad about Wilson. There was one play where Oliver turned the corner on the defense and burned up 10-12 yards before you had time to blink.

Speed from that RB position has been missing from this squad for many years. Not that the power back philosophy is a bad one, just that I would be nice to have a real change of pace player to cycle in and out.
RE: Watching Branden Oliver  
pjcas18 : 10/24/2014 4:06 pm : link
In comment 11938961 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
Last night made me sad about Wilson. There was one play where Oliver turned the corner on the defense and burned up 10-12 yards before you had time to blink.

Speed from that RB position has been missing from this squad for many years. Not that the power back philosophy is a bad one, just that I would be nice to have a real change of pace player to cycle in and out.


Good analogy, Oliver had 20 touches between runs and catches and of the 20, 13 I believe were for 1 yard or less.

That's what we'd probably see with Wilson.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/24/2014 4:07 pm : link
I was one of Wilson's bigger fans on this board so maybe I am biased but I 100% thought this offense could have been great for him. I really think he could have been a weapon for us. He was such an explosive athlete and it's not like he couldn't play football. He had some mental things he needed to work out but it would have come with experience. His combination of speed and power is hard to find. He was built like a fucking truck and a few of his fumbles happened because there were about 5 players trying to get him to the ground and someone would come in and strip the ball while he was fighting for more yards.

Losing him really bummed me out.
Am I mistaken  
Randy in CT : 10/24/2014 4:18 pm : link
or does kinard start a lot of these "What if ____ were still a Giant" threads?

I fucking hate these things.
RE: eric  
NYBEN : 10/24/2014 4:21 pm : link
In comment 11938914 SBlue46 said:
Quote:
IMO Jenkins plays 3 or 4 games...goes on ir...
we need a speedy rb....we got 44...hillis...cox
big backs....suprised we didn't sign jones
now and put cox on ps....this helps screens for
eli...jenkins was good....or maybe let odel do
some rb or parker..this will free up 9 in box..




You lost me at Jenkins
David Wilson gets injured and suddenly he is Gale Sayers  
oipolloi : 10/24/2014 4:23 pm : link
In reality, he was a young back who was not yet an NFL runner, had huge fumbling problems, and had yet to master picking up blitzes in pass protection.

The only thing he ever excelled at in the NFL was returning kicks
.  
arcarsenal : 10/24/2014 4:23 pm : link
It's actually funnier if you read the rest of the post because he thinks teams are putting 9 in the box against us.

LOLbossman
David Wilson gets injured and suddenly he is Gale Sayers  
oipolloi : 10/24/2014 4:23 pm : link
In reality, he was a young back who was not yet an NFL runner, had huge fumbling problems, and had yet to master picking up blitzes in pass protection.

The only thing he ever excelled at in the NFL was returning kicks
Wilson  
stretch234 : 10/24/2014 4:25 pm : link
He had speed which you had to respect.

Why was the run blocking poor against Philly and Dallas - they do not have to protect the edges. They loaded up defenders to crash the middle. This also allowed for numerous plays where defenders outnumbered blockers. It is simple math - more defenders than blockers means no yardage.

Unfortunate
I think oipolloi is on the mark. Wilson showed limited acumen  
Victor in CT : 10/24/2014 4:27 pm : link
with respect to the play book. However, I would love to have him as a KO returner. I envisioned him as a Meggett type specialist not an every down back but I question whether he ever would have mastered the position enough to be trusted by the coaches.
it has nothing to do with thinking he was Gale Sayers  
UConn4523 : 10/24/2014 4:28 pm : link
it has to do with having his speed and ability to cut on a dime, and it fitting in perfectly with our new revamped offense.

Fumbling is curable (we've seen it before), blocking is teachable, Wilsons skills weren't.

That isn't to say that all is fixed, but I would kill to see a guy with his abilities in our backfield right now.
RE: Am I mistaken  
kinard : 10/24/2014 4:31 pm : link
In comment 11938976 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
or does kinard start a lot of these "What if ____ were still a Giant" threads?

I fucking hate these things.


What if... we had a Corner Forum without pricks like Randy in CT on it?

I say that in jest you fucking Nutmegger! I, for one, would miss the salient point you make on every 25th post or so of yours.

Don't go changing, though. While we may sometimes disagree, I appreciate familiar posters like you. Kind of like a shitty pair of pants that you keep on wearing...

RE: I think  
AnishPatel : 10/24/2014 4:35 pm : link
In comment 11938873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he would have made a difference but I was a bigger support of him than a lot of people.

I just remember how explosive he was at times as both a runner and receiver... and in a WCO, I think he would have done well with more chances in open spaces.


Eric, I agree.

I really would have liked to him in this system. In fact, it bothers me a lot that due to injury the kid had to retire and had his NFL dream cut short. I think he could have done some good things in this system.

We lack speed in our RB corps. I would have loved to see him run routes. A nice swing pass which he takes to the house. Have our WR/TE clear out and bring him out of the backfield with open space.

Go 4 Wide and Wilson in the backfield. Eli at the line makes a call, and Wilson flexes out for a RB hot quick pass, with our WR blocking, and watch Wilson take off, as if shot out of a cannon.

That's one guy I would have loved to see in this system. I hope we can draft or sign a player who with amazing acceleration and with very good speed.
Please, Eric,  
Blackbeard : 10/24/2014 4:50 pm : link
stifle the "What If" threads.
He would have helped to keep the defense honest  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/24/2014 4:57 pm : link
what our o is really missing the past few weeks is the dumps into the flats. Williams and Hillis are so slow, that if you ran a screen it wasn't going to go anywhere anytime fast.

Wilson would have definitely put that threat there in the flats with swings, flares, and screens. Without Jennings no one cares about those areas.
With Jennings out, definately  
njm : 10/24/2014 5:00 pm : link
If Jennings had stayed healthy, virtually none.
David Wilson would have been a beast for us  
SHO'NUFF : 10/24/2014 5:10 pm : link
for many years...I'm still fucking depressed about losing him.
No  
BigBlueCane : 10/24/2014 5:13 pm : link
doesn't have the blitz pick-ups and the vision.
rb with that type of speed  
bc4life : 10/24/2014 5:22 pm : link
defenses have to account for a player like that. of course, he would have a made a difference
Speed  
BigBlueCane : 10/24/2014 5:58 pm : link
is pointless if you don't know where you're going.
Only when the offensive line  
illmatic : 10/24/2014 5:59 pm : link
is having a game where they're deciding to play pretty well.

So he would've made a difference about 50% of the time.
you're assuming Wilson was not capable  
SHO'NUFF : 10/24/2014 6:28 pm : link
of learning blitz pickups, ball security and field vision.
Felt sorry that his career had to end  
ghost718 : 10/24/2014 6:36 pm : link
But no, I don't think he would have made much of a difference.I always felt he was too small for this league.People kinda forget about some of the hits he was taking,every other game there was a big collision.I remember London Fletcher whacked him pretty good.
Short screens: his speed would have helped  
SGMen : 10/24/2014 6:49 pm : link
Would he have made us tremendously better? No

But would he have helped us - Yes.
RE: I think  
SGMen : 10/24/2014 6:50 pm : link
In comment 11938873 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
he would have made a difference but I was a bigger support of him than a lot of people.

I just remember how explosive he was at times as both a runner and receiver... and in a WCO, I think he would have done well with more chances in open spaces.
agreed
Based on what we saw, I don't think he would have been good  
SB : 10/24/2014 7:26 pm : link
...he tended to run upright and dance around looking for the big play. Also, he wasn't that great catching passes. I recall two or three big drops. Who knows, maybe he would have improved, but its impossible to say. I have my doubts that he would be very good this year, though, what with learning how to be an NFL running back AND learn a new offense.

I think he would have been great at KO returns though, so he is definitely missed on ST.
I think he may have helped the offense  
Some Fan : 10/24/2014 7:32 pm : link
but would not have changed our record.
Running backs are as  
Frank ' Harrisburg : 10/24/2014 7:33 pm : link
good as the O Ls. Wilson, Jennings or the new 44. It does't make a difference. Blocking is what it's all about.
RE: As a kick returner  
Toth029 : 10/24/2014 8:58 pm : link
In comment 11938913 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
he could have helped. Cox is terrible, Demps isn't any better, and no Jernigan or holliday.

he had over 1500 yards returning kicks in 2012.

for reference in 2013 they had 900 as a team.

600 yards is almost 40 yards a game.

So debate all you want about his speed impact on the running game or short passing attack, but there is no debate he would have had an impact on the KR.

This is by far Demps worst season as a pro at KR. Is it by coincidence or is it a natural drop off? He's been average at Safety, but not a playmaker at all. Or a consistent tackler. Reminds me of Brian Mitchell all of a sudden being terrible at KR/PR with the Giants when he had such success elsewhere.
Yes as a KO returner  
Steve in South Jersey : 10/24/2014 9:01 pm : link
No as a RB. He could not block. He never showed any kind of positive consistency as a RB.
if healthy and without his injury/condition.. IMO..  
Rsspro : 10/25/2014 12:17 am : link
yes.. of course..

the guy was still an elite talent.. he'd be getting more reps than Williams right now and possibly showing the NFL he's someone defenses better watch out for.. all this is IMO of course..
RE: David Wilson would have been a beast for us  
Rsspro : 10/25/2014 12:17 am : link
In comment 11939033 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
for many years...I'm still fucking depressed about losing him.


agreed
RE: David Wilson gets injured and suddenly he is Gale Sayers  
trueblueinpw : 10/25/2014 12:19 am : link
In comment 11938985 oipolloi said:
Quote:
In reality, he was a young back who was not yet an NFL runner, had huge fumbling problems, and had yet to master picking up blitzes in pass protection.

The only thing he ever excelled at in the NFL was returning kicks


This. [/end thread]
RE: David Wilson gets injured and suddenly he is Gale Sayers  
Optimus-NY : 10/25/2014 12:30 am : link
In comment 11938983 oipolloi said:
Quote:
In reality, he was a young back who was not yet an NFL runner, had huge fumbling problems, and had yet to master picking up blitzes in pass protection.

The only thing he ever excelled at in the NFL was returning kicks


BINGO!
DW would likely not have made a big difference on Offense  
Jimmy Googs : 10/25/2014 5:42 am : link
this season unless he dramatically changed his shortcomings with ball security and blocking. It would have been nice to have him though as he clearly had a skill set that still could have developed on the field.

Kickoff Returns without question....yes
Because of the particular way the Giants lost to Arizona...  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/25/2014 7:21 am : link
...I think he might have been the difference between 3-4 and 4-3. For the season as a whole, who knows?
RE: As a kick returner  
Great White Ghost : 10/25/2014 7:49 am : link
In comment 11938913 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
he could have helped. Cox is terrible, Demps isn't any better, and no Jernigan or holliday.

he had over 1500 yards returning kicks in 2012.

for reference in 2013 they had 900 as a team.

600 yards is almost 40 yards a game.

So debate all you want about his speed impact on the running game or short passing attack, but there is no debate he would have had an impact on the KR.


If our KO returners are so bad, why are we 6th in the league in KO returns in ydg??Cox is ranked 11th in the NFL. You know not of what you speak.
Wilson  
stretch234 : 10/25/2014 9:06 am : link
He played 20 career NFL games. It is fair to say nobody knew what he could have been.

That said, his speed would definitely have been a factor, especially with this offense. Look at how Dallas & Philly played defense w/o a lateral threat - they did not bother defensing the edges. He changes that by being in there.

Plus speed out of the backfield threatens defenses in the passing game.

Was he accomplished as a blocker - no, was his vision the best - no, but he had a tremendous burst and defenses have to respect that
RE: RE: As a kick returner  
pjcas18 : 10/25/2014 9:24 am : link
In comment 11939371 Great White Ghost said:
Quote:
In comment 11938913 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


he could have helped. Cox is terrible, Demps isn't any better, and no Jernigan or holliday.

he had over 1500 yards returning kicks in 2012.

for reference in 2013 they had 900 as a team.

600 yards is almost 40 yards a game.

So debate all you want about his speed impact on the running game or short passing attack, but there is no debate he would have had an impact on the KR.



If our KO returners are so bad, why are we 6th in the league in KO returns in ydg??Cox is ranked 11th in the NFL. You know not of what you speak.


Really? Cox has 5 returns, and you call that a meaningful sample. Cox had that one 40 yard return last week. It was probably the longest of his career. where were you last year when he was buried at the 17 yd line every time he ran it out of the ez?

I know exactly what I speak of, and if you are looking at the avg return yards of someone with 5 returns and claiming they're doing a fine job - you are the one who knows not of which he speaks.

In terms of team average returns for the season which is what is meaningful the Giants rank 21st.

In 2012 with Wilson they were 6th at over 26 yards per return over the course of a season.

That is making a difference.

So, back to the original questions, would Wilson make a difference on this team - the answer is a resounding yes. On KR's.

and if you're looking at ypg  
pjcas18 : 10/25/2014 9:26 am : link
do you really need someone to explain to you when you're scored on often and the other team kicks off a lot, your team will have a lot of KR yards?

and that doesn't make you proficient at it?
Return game IMO he  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/25/2014 9:29 am : link
Could have been big all year. IMO the Eagle game as well. Without Jennings the running game is even more limited.

Didn't read the thread but to me the Eagles game was telling for our RBs.

Hillis and Williams are what they are. Solid but slow as shit. Williams will get better but he has no speed to the outside. None.

If the Giants have Williams it allows for outside the tackle plays. He could have forced the Eagles to defend the edges insteAd of loading up the middle. Though I'm not sure if anything could have helped Pugh's game
RE: RE: David Wilson gets injured and suddenly he is Gale Sayers  
SHO'NUFF : 10/25/2014 12:58 pm : link
In comment 11939329 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 11938983 oipolloi said:


Quote:


In reality, he was a young back who was not yet an NFL runner, had huge fumbling problems, and had yet to master picking up blitzes in pass protection.

The only thing he ever excelled at in the NFL was returning kicks



BINGO!


you're right...why even draft rookie running backs...we should just shoot them all to put 'em down mercifully.
RE: and if you're looking at ypg  
Great White Ghost : 10/25/2014 3:27 pm : link
In comment 11939399 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
do you really need someone to explain to you when you're scored on often and the other team kicks off a lot, your team will have a lot of KR yards?

and that doesn't make you proficient at it?
OK. Makes sense. My bad.
crappy oline = crappy season  
mdc1 : 10/25/2014 4:17 pm : link
.
RE: eric  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/26/2014 3:31 am : link
In comment 11938914 SBlue46 said:
Quote:
IMO Jenkins plays 3 or 4 games...goes on ir...
we need a speedy rb....we got 44...hillis...cox
big backs....suprised we didn't sign jones
now and put cox on ps....this helps screens for
eli...jenkins was good....or maybe let odel do
some rb or parker..this will free up 9 in box..



Who is Jenkins? Who is Jones? Are you talking about Rashad Jennings and LaMichael James? And for the love of God, can you stop hitting ENTER when you're typing a post?
I'm a huge fan of David Wilson...  
M.S. : 10/26/2014 9:37 am : link
...but I think it may be the wrong question.

Our number one malaise is a mediocre-to-bad offensive line.

Out number two malaise is a defense line that can't rush the passer and can't set the edge at the LOS (not to mention a pretty poor set of LBs).

David Wilson doesn't even come close to entering the conversation.

But as a player, I think a very, very fine career was regrettably cut short!
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