NFT: Nurse quarantined for Ebola monitoring will sue

but she really doesn't get it. Meanwhile, another case:

Quote:

A 5-year-old boy who just returned from West Africa was transported to Bellevue Hospital Sunday with possible Ebola symptoms, according to law-enforcement sources. The child was vomiting and had a 103-degree fever when he was carried from his Bronx home by EMS workers wearing hazmat suits, neighbors said. �He looked weak,� said a neighbor. �He was really, really out of it.� The boy returned with his family from Guinea Saturday night and five members of the family were being quarantined inside their apartment, sources said.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/27/5-year-old-boy-being-tested-for-ebola-in-new-york-city/

it never works out well. We have no massive outbreak in this country. Out of well over 300 million people all of 2 have contracted Ebola here, and they both worked with the patient that died when his viral load is at it's highest level and they have or are recovering. Chances are every person who posts on this thread knows more people than that themselves who have contracted the flu the past month, and that will kill up to 30,000 people this year.

as Ebola is, for most people.

And yes, we don't have an outbreak and don't want one.

Send her ass back to Africa if she has a problem

many many years ago I served as health officer for my tiny rural County here in Florida.I can remember quarantining individuals and families. It is a necessary part of medical care.this whole debate sounds like one big case of begging the question. That is, they're not addressing the real issue. These folks claim that the quarantine is violating their human rights, that it is illegal, and it is a civil rights issue, and on and on. It's quite simple. It is a public health issue. I wouldn't mind if they served the quarantine at their home with monitoring. But some form of quarantine is necessary.this is what happens when you get a bunch of lawyers dictating on a health issue. Aside from governor Christie opening his big mouth about the patient's condition, I applaud what the Governors have done. This is political correctness gone amok.

I respect Dr.Fauci. I studied his book. He of all people should know some form of quarantine is indicated.

at home, while being monitored. This woman was literally stuck in a bubble at a medical facility.

matters of which he has no knowledge or experience so he can make a quick buck.

Leave it to the guys and gals with degrees in medicine and public health, counselor.

He was a stellar scientist (he was actually one of the people I considered postdocing for way back when) but since he first moved into the AIDS Institute and then beyond, his concerns have been more about how science fits into politics and how politics can benefit science. Nothing wrong with that and he's done an outstanding job at it, but you do have to understand the context in every public statement he makes.

I think home quarantine is fine too, however, maybe the NY doc makes the case that it's not a perfect system? Maybe quarantine at home with outside supervision would work?

One thing I don't understand about the lawsuit is that the healthcare workers who go over to Africa are obviously somewhat altruistic. They know that they have to give up time and, sometimes income, etc. They want to health and they understand the disease and the problems associated with the disease. So, why wouldn't they just figure a "cooling off" period after leaving Africa is part of the package? Fears might be overblown and the risk small, but they've all seen first-hand the consequences if the disease comes to fruition. The resistance to post-work protocols seems a bit odd.

but I assume people sign some sort of contract for a specific period of volunteering. Maybe the easiest thing to do would be to change the contract length/terms so that the specified period is x months in country plus 2 months quarantine. That way, the quarantine is simply part of the job like the however many month of pre-job training sessions.

is the quality of the facility that people are quarantined. Someone who risks their life to fight a disease that could develop into a pandemic should be treated well. I'm not talking about a five star hotel, just something with a reasonable level of comfort like an ordinary hospital room.

Quote:

She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. Hickox said she has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls.

CNN article - ( New Window )

Michael BarbaroVerified account
‏@mikiebarb
NYT EXCLUSIVE: Christie says he's planning to release nurse later today if CDC an doctors sign off.
Link - ( New Window )

I heard this morning on a tv morning show that they are being paid while in quarantine, however imposed.

So it is essentially an extension of the contract.

She and the other docs have seen this firsthand. Why would they want to risk anything given the 70-90% death rate? Sitting at home for 21 days makes sense but since we've had at least two medical professionals violate the 21 day voluntary quarantine already, I'm not sure that a mandatory quarantine is out of line. It's a public health issue and shouldn't be subject to weepy feelings.
This entire thing is a work in progress and there will be bumps in the road and suing because your feelings were hurt won't change that.

In comment 11941632 Ira said:

Quote:

is the quality of the facility that people are quarantined. Someone who risks their life to fight a disease that could develop into a pandemic should be treated well. I'm not talking about a five star hotel, just something with a reasonable level of comfort like an ordinary hospital room. Quote: She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. Hickox said she has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls. CNN article - ( New Window )

i think this comes with the problem of risking throwing stuff out if she is sick...

this is all precaution and the public wants better action. What fucked this all up was the doctor in NYC. He wasnt careful and all we need is one fuck up to make this worse. I mean Duncan didnt get his family sick which is promising but these doctors should have some common sense and just for them and their families quarantine themselves.

they are getting paid anyways

In comment 11941633 natefit said:

Quote:

Michael BarbaroVerified account ‏@mikiebarb NYT EXCLUSIVE: Christie says he's planning to release nurse later today if CDC an doctors sign off. Link - ( New Window )

That's a pretty cute move. Ok Feds, if you don't like the quarantine, no problem. You take responsibility for any adverse consequences. Let's see how quick the CDC signs off on it. After all,they are not motivated by "hysteria and fear."

You still have the challenge of managing people who return from pre-existing commitments.

The problem in the Hickox case might have been less the quarantine itself than the arbitrary way the rules shifted while she was going through the protocol. The prevailing public sentiment seems to be that quarantining her was right, but that it was handled badly. I'm not sure there was any way to handle it well, and still impose quarantine on her. She followed the protocol as it existed, and was cleared. Her attorneys have a valid point that the compelling state interest for changing the rules and abridging her rights is pretty vague.

Was she ever asked to accept voluntary quarantine? If not, that might have been the smartest path; then it could be made mandatory for subsequent returnees. The hitch, of course, is that she might have refused.

In comment 11941609 Giants11 said:

Quote:

it never works out well. We have no massive outbreak in this country. Out of well over 300 million people all of 2 have contracted Ebola here, and they both worked with the patient that died when his viral load is at it's highest level and they have or are recovering. Chances are every person who posts on this thread knows more people than that themselves who have contracted the flu the past month, and that will kill up to 30,000 people this year.

I believe the point is to do everything possible to keep the virus from establishing a stronghold in this country. Until 1999, West Nile virus was rare, now it runs rampant every summer.

In comment 11941632 Ira said:

Quote:

is the quality of the facility that people are quarantined. Someone who risks their life to fight a disease that could develop into a pandemic should be treated well. I'm not talking about a five star hotel, just something with a reasonable level of comfort like an ordinary hospital room. Quote: She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. Hickox said she has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls. CNN article - ( New Window )

I think going forward, quarantine will be different as stsea become prepared for it. Again, behind the eight ball being prepared.

Florida is announcing today that quarantine will be in house with examination twice daily by state health officials.

I shouldn't be that the states are required to come up with their own quarantine protocols.

In comment 11941657 Bernie said:

Quote:

In comment 11941609 Giants11 said: Quote: it never works out well. We have no massive outbreak in this country. Out of well over 300 million people all of 2 have contracted Ebola here, and they both worked with the patient that died when his viral load is at it's highest level and they have or are recovering. Chances are every person who posts on this thread knows more people than that themselves who have contracted the flu the past month, and that will kill up to 30,000 people this year. I believe the point is to do everything possible to keep the virus from establishing a stronghold in this country. Until 1999, West Nile virus was rare, now it runs rampant every summer.

I think you have to admit that there is a slight difference between human to human transmitted diseases and mosquito borne diseases. You can't effectively quarantine mosquitoes or spray humanicides on people.

it will put us at increased risk of pandemic going forward. Not from Ebola but some other future virus for which we have no effective treatment. Our hands will be tied from using quarantine.

home is sensible policy. Locking her in a bubble with no running water or a shower or television or radio is determining policy through hysteria and fear.

In comment 11941611 bxgiants4 said:

Quote:

Send her ass back to Africa if she has a problem

You don't have to. She went there on her own free volition as a hero to fight this disease that will probably never come anywhere near you partially due to the bravery of people like her and the Doctors that risk their lives to help others. What an idiotic thing to say.

I know it's not arrest, but let's call it what it is - it's a serious inconvenience at the bare minimum. It will complicate getting people to sign up for some of these assignments but there's just no way getting around some sort of quarantine.

this is hysteria based on fear - fear that has been promoted heavily by the Media.

I worry that the net result of the faux panic is that medical personnel will avoid going to areas where viruses are present because of the shit they have to deal with at home.

Take for instance the doctor in NC who has Ebola. The media made it a sideshow and pretty much called the guy's character into question for taking a subway or going bowling while asymptamatic. Then in the next breath, they will very quietly say that the virus can't be passed unless symptoms are present. So who did the guy harm?

It is pretty telling that the only US citizens here in the states who have contracted the virus are medical personnel. Telling because it illustrates just how hard it is to contract the virus. This isn't Africa with substandard treatment areas and substandard sanitation. Even the guy who died in TX didn't pass the virus to any family, only a worker.

Why has mass panic been caused by a virus that is this hard to pass? My thought is because we have 24 hour news stations with only about 1 hour a day of actual news to discuss.

you can be asymptomatic until you are symptomatic. What if one of these people doesn't have any symptoms and then all of a sudden does and vomits or whatever out in public? If the people are quarantined or contained, it is much easier to control the exposure to the general public.

These patients require a lot of care and it costs a lot of money to treat them. Plus it puts healthcare workers at risk. It is in all of our bests interests to make sure that anyone from that area is monitored for a period. Unfortunately self quarantine hasn't worked.

helps people. But let's be realistic. These people go to countries and operate in horrible and unsafe conditions. To ask them to come here and spend 3 weeks in quarantine is not asking too much. They can make the quarantine more pleasant. But that's it.

Even if somebody were to suddenly become symptomatic and vomit in public, you know what? The extent of he damage is limited to the people vomited on. Hell, with the flu and other infectious viruses, it is exponentially easier to acquire. Now those other things aren't as deadly, so the end result is much harsh, but there is no denying hat hysteria is at play here.

Almost everyone has the potential to be exposed to the flu. Not even a percentage of one percent of the people have a chance to be exposed to Ebola. - Yet what is the lead story on the news every night for the past month?

If you don't think it is hysteria, you are exactly the type of viewer the Media wants.

so it would seem that it is the lawyer making noise.

2. Court won't take the case, because they don't want the nurse in their building.

that these healthcare workers are providing in west Africa they should absolutely be quarantined for 21 days. They SHOULD be doing it on their own, but for some reason they can't seem to deal with it.

No matter how difficult it is for this virus to spread, once one of these people show signs of sickness it becomes a massive task tracking their prior movements, finding those they came in contact with, and then the businesses that these people walked into have the "Ebola stigma" tied to them and customers stop showing up.

It becomes a financial burden as well as a medical burden.

Yes, the chances of getting it are slim, but the consequences of catching it are enormous.

And please stop comparing it to the flu. The flu doesn't have a 70% kill rate.

...

being more deadly. It isn't. It kills more people because its so easy to get, but have fun defending Ebola not wiping out have the people that get it. Its such a shitty argument.

As for this woman, suing is ridiculous. She wasn't imprisoned. She was monitored via quarantine process. Did she lose her job? Was she beaten or starved? Ridiculous...

*

is not correct. Medical experts expect the cure rate to be over 70% when treated in modern medical facilities.

Just like you supposedly can't compare Ebola to the flu, you really shouldn't compare medical treatment in a third-world country to that in the US.

You might as well start saying that malnutrition has a 50% mortality rate then.

that's still enormous. Pick what ever percentage you want, its still really high.

crap that you have to throw out after quarantine has been lifted (by the curing of the illness, or by death). Not having a flushing toilet also makes sense.

The apparent limitations on what she doesn't have is ludicrous.

It isn't just about mortality rates. It is about scaring the bejeezus out of a lot of american's, some even like buford, who are convinced ebola isn't just a reality, but a huge public health issue.

It is a deadly infection - one that should have precautions of the spread. It definitely should NOT be made out to be something that is likely to threaten the general public.

It is insanity to even try to determine what the mortality rates are anyway. Let's see - in Africa, you have tons of people dying from it in conditions not found here in the US - In the US, we've now had several people treated for the virus and the only one who has died was an African who didn't get proper medical treatment until it was too late.

Really small sample size, but the cure rate of american's contracting Ebola here in the US - 100%.

But yes, let's all get worried about this very dangerous virus. Let's make it the most prominent story over the past month.

remains low in the US, survival rate should remain high.

A lot of resources are applied to these patients including plasma donors. God forbid the rate of infection climbs, you will also see the mortality rate climb. That's not to say that would happen, I'm just saying the quality of care is directly proportional to the number being cared for.

its too late for all of that. The country is scared and that's irreversible. So if it takes this lady getting quarantined during the 3-4 weeks the virus can be dormant for, than so be it. She wasn't treated like a criminal; the lawsuit is ludicrous.

like a criminal, but she certainly also wasn't treated by acceptable standards.

One can argue taking basic entertainment choices away and pretty much forcing her to live in a bubble is not only excessive, but unacceptable.

Quarantine her in isolation with a temperature monitor on her - not some sort of thing reserved for aliens or people with auto-immune diseases.

i'm sure she really deserves the fat check she'll likely get...

when you dont quarantine yourself, you endanger everyone...

I don;t think many people deserve the suit settlements they win. That isn't the point - the point is that her quarantine was neither carried out in a professional nor reasonable manner.

In comment 11941753 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

i'm sure she really deserves the fat check she'll likely get...

There is no rationale for her not to be allowed some modicum of personal effects and reading material.

has left the building. We live in a world of panic and have since AIDS, 9-11 and for God's sakes, bedbugs. Fear mongering has become big busines$. Some of it is warranted and much of it is not, but either way it aint goin away.

Quote:

the NYC doctor fucked it up for everyone... GMAN4LIFE : 10:35 am : link : reply when you dont quarantine yourself, you endanger everyone...

This is sort of my point. Who did he endanger? Everyone? He didn't endanger me.

a decent sized donation to Doctors Without Borders before she turned them into the ALCU with this lawsuit. I think I will look elsewhere. There are plenty of great charities that don't bring lawsuits.

In comment 11941743 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

She wasn't treated like a criminal

You are right. Criminals get television and running water and get to talk to someone face to face. She was treated worse.

I meant that she is turning them into the ACLU.

themselves in a location outside of their home, and report their symptoms?

You sure as shit don't treat it like an internment camp.

Home quarantine, fine-tuned, is likely the best of all worlds, but comes with severe risks as well.

People who don't understand that the negative attention this situation has caused will have severe behavioral impacts are the ones that worry me.