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NFT: Travis Outlaw traded for Arnett Moultrie

DanMetroMan : 10/27/2014 3:46 pm
per writers on twitter
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RE: That doesn't make any sense.  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:06 pm : link
In comment 11942796 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
There has to me more to it. There's no reason to trade a player and a pick when Outlaw is on his last year if you want to clear a roster spot.

there's definitely a reason. $$.
RE: What  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:07 pm : link
In comment 11942801 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
was the purpose of adding Moultrie at the expense of a 2nd rounder to waive him? Makes no sense.

saving the salary and associated luxury tax immediately comes to mind.
Kind  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2014 4:07 pm : link
of silly for Jackson to pump this kid up... doesn't that make other teams more likely to take a look?


“Travis Wear is another impressive rookie,” Knicks President Phil Jackson told ESPN.com. “He’s 6-10 with a terrific handle, outstanding athleticism and a nice touch from beyond the arc. He was overshadowed at UCLA, but has the skill set to play every position from 1 to 4. We’ll eventually place him in the D-League, where his possible NBA future solely depends on his ability to learn how to defend.”
and  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2014 4:08 pm : link
he thinks he can play the 1? at 6'10?
RE: RE: That doesn't make any sense.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/27/2014 4:09 pm : link
In comment 11942805 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 11942796 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


There has to me more to it. There's no reason to trade a player and a pick when Outlaw is on his last year if you want to clear a roster spot.


there's definitely a reason. $$.


Seems weird to value the cash more than the draft selection.
although they do save 2 mill...  
Italianju : 10/27/2014 4:10 pm : link
and you can usually buy second rounders for way less then that, of course you must have some of your 3 mill per year left.
RE: RE: RE: That doesn't make any sense.  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:11 pm : link
In comment 11942817 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 11942805 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 11942796 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


There has to me more to it. There's no reason to trade a player and a pick when Outlaw is on his last year if you want to clear a roster spot.


there's definitely a reason. $$.



Seems weird to value the cash more than the draft selection.

if you've been following this team for an extended period of time, nothing is out of the ordinary.
Trying not to judge on the previous GM's curve  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/27/2014 4:13 pm : link
.
Phil Jackson wasn't supposed to be part of what you learned...  
manh george : 10/27/2014 4:13 pm : link
by watching this team for any extended period of time.
once you factor in repeater penalties  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:14 pm : link
and such it's possible Outlaw's total cap and luxury hit was way north of $10 million or so. Just another side benefit of the Bargs trade (i.e. his big salary on the books for this season) and other overpays over the years.
I  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2014 4:16 pm : link
really hope Jackson hyping up Barnagni is just lip service. I despise watching him play.
RE: Phil Jackson wasn't supposed to be part of what you learned...  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:16 pm : link
In comment 11942834 manh george said:
Quote:
by watching this team for any extended period of time.

Meet the new boss...
RE: I  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:18 pm : link
In comment 11942840 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really hope Jackson hyping up Barnagni is just lip service. I despise watching him play.

it's no coincidence we played a lot better last season once he went down with the season ending injury. He's an offense only player who sucks on offense.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 10/27/2014 4:21 pm : link
In comment 11942850 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 11942840 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really hope Jackson hyping up Barnagni is just lip service. I despise watching him play.


it's no coincidence we played a lot better last season once he went down with the season ending injury. He's an offense only player who sucks on offense.


He looks like he's never played the sport of basketball at times. I understand IN THEORY why coming into the draft people liked him but he's as if Dirk's talent was sucked out by a vacuum.
Sixers should be put into receivership  
Deej : 10/27/2014 4:29 pm : link
It will never happen but it should. The way they're running that team is very detrimental to the league. Other owners should be up in arms over the shit product the Sixers are foisting on the league -- and remember, half their games are played on the road, so the other owners are absolutely suffering in ticket sales whenever the Sixers come to town.
Of course Moultrie starts to play well  
Section331 : 10/27/2014 4:33 pm : link
and the Sixers trade him. I guess they figured they wouldn't have to worry about that possibility with Outlaw. What they are doing is a league-wide embarrassment.
the problem  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:40 pm : link
is that Philly is 100% executing the proper strategy given the CBA and the draft lottery rules. Plenty of teams have tanked before but it would seem nobody has done it on this scale before.
Good move by Phil  
Anakim : 10/27/2014 4:46 pm : link
Save some dough and it's more than just 2 million dollars because we're in the luxury tax...so a 2nd rounder and a swap of second rounders for a saving of more than 2 million...
thing that is making philly even worse...  
Italianju : 10/27/2014 4:49 pm : link
is that they keep drafting guys that cant play their rookie year. If they had Noel last year or Embiid this year they might not be as horrible.

And i 100% agree that PHilly is doing this the right way. If you arent going to be good then you might as well be horrible. it would suck as a fan that you dont get to see your rookies like Noel or Embiid, but they are both guys that they got a few spots below where they would have gone if they were not hurt.
Phil MOFO JACKSON  
Anakim : 10/27/2014 4:49 pm : link
Marc Stein: Additional movitvation for Knicks to do Travis Outlaw deal: They just shaved nearly $4.7 million off their luxury-tax bill with this trade
the only good thing about  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:50 pm : link
Dolan is/was his willingness to spend. You can't call him cheap, after the payroll for this team is still sky high. But it's clear he's mainly interested in keeping the building full and not necessarily in traditional team building.
RE: Phil MOFO JACKSON  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 4:53 pm : link
In comment 11942905 Anakim said:
Quote:
Marc Stein: Additional movitvation for Knicks to do Travis Outlaw deal: They just shaved nearly $4.7 million off their luxury-tax bill with this trade

now Jimmy has more money for fedoras and guitars! Yay us!
He is 6' 10" with a 37.5 vertical and 7' 2.25" wingspan  
oipolloi : 10/27/2014 5:12 pm : link
Has some shooting and ball skills.

Guys like that don't grow on trees. Definitely worth a look, especially for a guy such as Outlaw, who probably was not going to play.
RE: He is 6' 10  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 5:16 pm : link
In comment 11942947 oipolloi said:
Quote:
Has some shooting and ball skills.

Guys like that don't grow on trees. Definitely worth a look, especially for a guy such as Outlaw, who probably was not going to play.

if you're referring to Moultrie, he's already gone.
RE: RE: Phil MOFO JACKSON  
mfsd : 10/27/2014 5:19 pm : link
In comment 11942914 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 11942905 Anakim said:


Quote:


Marc Stein: Additional movitvation for Knicks to do Travis Outlaw deal: They just shaved nearly $4.7 million off their luxury-tax bill with this trade


now Jimmy has more money for fedoras and guitars! Yay us!


I see what Jax did here. Next time Dolan calls to recommend a trade, Jax will say "I saved you $4.7 million on Outlaw. Leave me alone."
per ESPN,  
Del Shofner : 10/27/2014 5:22 pm : link
Moultrie's been waived and Outlaw will be.


championship! - ( New Window )
off topic  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 5:25 pm : link
but it sure seems like Stein is almost like Wojo when it comes to reporting Knicks stuff. This isn't the first time he's had Knicks news first.
I'm no cap guru  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/27/2014 5:29 pm : link
But it sounds like we just got fleeced.

My opinion is volatile, and I'll gladly change it if we had any other motive to do this deal other than to get Dolan more coke money.
The Jackson comments for the book  
Phil in LA : 10/27/2014 5:31 pm : link
that were on ESPN.com last week, were from the beginning of training camp. Then training camp happened and looks like Wear will make it.
RE: I'm no cap guru  
Enzo : 10/27/2014 5:35 pm : link
In comment 11942969 AnotherGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But it sounds like we just got fleeced.

My opinion is volatile, and I'll gladly change it if we had any other motive to do this deal other than to get Dolan more coke money.

fleeced is a strong word. But it's just the latest in a long line of moves where we needlessly give up minor (and sometimes major) assets for seemingly no reason.
Jackson got $4.7 million in non-cap money back...  
manh george : 10/27/2014 6:55 pm : link
for a distant second and a switch of another distant second. He should be able to get that back by buying seconds by the time those seconds come due. Given that, a swap of waiver candidates doesn't seem like much of a fleece. And if he is successful in putting together a top-40% team, then those seconds won't be worth much.
Great analysis  
manh george : 10/27/2014 7:06 pm : link

Link - ( New Window )
Guys...  
BC Eagles94 : 10/27/2014 7:07 pm : link
Phil saved Dolan 4.7 million in this deal. Do you know how much it is to a buy a second rounder? 750k at most, and that is for a beginning of the second round pick. This deal is a money deal, muchado about nothing. We can buy plenty of second rounders going forward if Jackson sees anyone he wants.
Btw  
manh george : 10/27/2014 7:09 pm : link
Jeremy Tyler was waived by both Sacramento and the Lakers since he left us. He is now a proud starter for Shanxi Zhongyu. At least I think he's a starter.
I guess it's smart financially  
steve in ky : 10/27/2014 7:26 pm : link
but to be honest I really don't care much about whether he saves Dolan money or not. Since it doesn't appear to help them with the cap it is all about Dolans bottom line.

That said you want a GM who does care and values the owners money so I appreciate the move by Jackson in that sense.
So in the end this is just a housekeeping move?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/27/2014 7:34 pm : link
.
Knicks fleeced?  
Shecky : 10/27/2014 8:00 pm : link
Not sure how you see that. Is the team better or worse today? Honestly, even without the 2nd they are exactly the same. We can all laugh off the $4.7mm as insignificant - because we never get to see it. But Jackson just turned a future $1mm asset (value of a current top second rounder - being generous here) into nearly $5mm asset today. By dumping the same player he planned to dump. It's an anti Zeke move. Very screwed move, and a good sign of things to come.
Fleecing is all relative  
AnotherGiantsFan : 10/27/2014 8:12 pm : link
We lost the deal when it comes to actual assets. We saved Dolan more coke money, yay. I don't give a fuck, he's still charging me the same amount to go watch his team.

This is strictly a business move that has nothing to do with basketball. A type of move fans would be crying about if we still weren't in the honeymoon phase with Phil Jackson. And I love Zen Master. The only people who won this deal are the 76ers tankfest and James Dolan. No one else.

This isn't a big move, so I don't care. But lets call a spade a spade.

wear  
SBlue46 : 10/28/2014 12:08 am : link
Took roster spot
Except we could use the money that Dolan saved to buy back those  
Anakim : 10/28/2014 12:47 am : link
second rounders, or better yet, a first rounder or two
You can buy about 5 or more  
Phil in LA : 10/28/2014 1:41 am : link
2nd rounders for 4.7.
RE: You can buy about 5 or more  
Anakim : 10/28/2014 1:54 am : link
In comment 11944319 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
2nd rounders for 4.7.


Exactly. So I don't see how we got "fleeced"


Though I would've liked to have put Moultrie in Westchester and see how he developed
Fleeced.....Really?  
Italianju : 10/28/2014 6:48 am : link
come on, we traded some future second rounders to save some tax money. Im not crazy about sending picks to save money, but its not exactly a disaster. As others have said we can easily buy 4 or 5 second rounders that 5 mill we saved.
For perspective  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/28/2014 6:57 am : link
The Nets bought 3 second round picks in the 2014 draft for a TOTAL of $1.9 million.
RE: You can buy about 5 or more  
Enzo : 10/28/2014 7:51 am : link
In comment 11944319 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
2nd rounders for 4.7.

there is a $3 million cap each year on how much cash you can send out in transactions. If you send out money in a trade, then you have that much less available to purchase draft picks.
Seems like smart business to me.  
BeerFridge : 10/28/2014 8:17 am : link
And as a plus, now I don't have to watch Travis Outlaw play.
I highly doubt after all that went down to get Jackson here  
jcn56 : 10/28/2014 8:18 am : link
that all of a sudden Phil would make a move that gave a short term benefit of cash at the expense of the team's ability to execute in the draft/FA market. In Phil I trust!
well there is the 3 mill cap...  
Italianju : 10/28/2014 10:11 am : link
but we sent out a 2019 second and a chance to swap in 2018 when Philly will prolly still be bad. That means we have like 4 seasons to recoup those picks so its almost like saying you have 12 mill to recoup that 2019 pick. I think we can find a way.

Does anyone know if this helps us in a repeat tax offender way? Or are we so far over that it doesnt matter at all. Im assuming the latter.
nobody is saying these second rounders  
Enzo : 10/28/2014 10:44 am : link
are major assets, but we were working with an already depleted stockpile and now it just got lighter. We now have that much less to offer as sweeteners in trades (as all of our previously traded picks were used). No matter how you view it, our ability to acquire future talent just took a (minor) hit. And yes you can buy second rounders, but to me that just means instead of plucking 2 or 3 second rounders (if we were to purchase a pick or picks in addition to our own had we kept it) in those years we're looking at just 1 or 2.
RE: well there is the 3 mill cap...  
Enzo : 10/28/2014 10:46 am : link
In comment 11944657 Italianju said:
Quote:
but we sent out a 2019 second and a chance to swap in 2018 when Philly will prolly still be bad. That means we have like 4 seasons to recoup those picks so its almost like saying you have 12 mill to recoup that 2019 pick. I think we can find a way.

Does anyone know if this helps us in a repeat tax offender way? Or are we so far over that it doesnt matter at all. Im assuming the latter.

none of our lousy beat writers have bothered to do the math on this. Regardless, this version of the CBA expires in 2 years so all of the tax limits and penalties are going to be brand new before we know it, or completely eliminated.
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