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Does the Redskins success point a finger at Perry Fool or...

PonderingObserver : 10/28/2014 12:51 am
to the lack of DL, LB, and DB coaching, or the talent evaluation and accumulation of defensive players, starting with linebackers, of the Giants?

Skins blitzed an awful lot and their blitzers got through.
First, do I understand the Fewell Philosophy of D?  
trueblueinpw : 10/28/2014 12:57 am : link
Let me see if I can get this Fewell defense straight:

1. Get pressure with only 4 DL - produce sacks and or DBs get turn overs.
2. If no pressure with 4 DL - don't blitz - just keep sending 4 and playing cover 2 zone until you get turn over. On third down, think about dropping DL into coverage, because, hey, who the fuck would ever guess we'd do something that stupid?
3. If no pressure and no turn over - give up occasional gash run and or big play downfield - get scored on - give ball back to offense until back on defense at which point go back to step 1.

Is this about what we've all been watching from Fewell the past 5 years?
the only difference is, even if our guys get through  
SHO'NUFF : 10/28/2014 12:57 am : link
the QB slips through their fingers and runs the ball for 15-20 yards.
Kerrigan, Riley and Robinson are much better than what we have at LB.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 12:59 am : link
Haslett is running a 3-4 with speed and talent at the linebacker position.

Fewell is running a 4-3 with a front 4 that can't get any pressure and mostly shitty linebackers.
Also..  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 1:02 am : link
Keep in mind how god awful the Redskin defense looked against us. They sacked Eli.... once. We torched the shit out of them.
arcarsenal  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/28/2014 1:04 am : link
But we have JPP and Hankins and Moore and Ayers...and the Skins don't.
that's because we were throwing fast passes  
SHO'NUFF : 10/28/2014 1:06 am : link
they didn't know what hit them until it was too late...
Redskins success?  
Kulish29 : 10/28/2014 1:07 am : link
Seriously?
It points the finger at the Cowboys  
bceagle05 : 10/28/2014 1:11 am : link
and the start of their annual second half demise. Romo's on his last legs, Durant's out for the year, and the schedule's taking a turn for the worse.
RE: arcarsenal  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 1:12 am : link
In comment 11944285 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
But we have JPP and Hankins and Moore and Ayers...and the Skins don't.


We don't use Moore enough and Ayers has been much less effective since he got banged up. He was excellent the first few weeks.
The skins weren't playing from behind as much  
chris r : 10/28/2014 1:15 am : link
and won the time of possession battle, unlike us.

Not a Fewell fan but those are factors.

Also given the (lack of) success of his blitzes, we should be glad Fewell doesn't blitz that much.

Basically his defense looks good when the DL is getting good pressure. It's pretty lousy if its not.
For as much as the Skins Blitzed tonight,  
prdave73 : 10/28/2014 1:19 am : link
your going to get quite a few that will hit home.. Enough to disrupt Romo's game. They flat out threw blitzes from everywhere. The plan was to put enough pressure so they don't get burned like they did against us, and it worked for them.
Sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles  
prdave73 : 10/28/2014 1:22 am : link
when Blitzing certain teams, and imo I don't think the Cowboys where expecting this from the Redskins.. Tonight it worked.
I think Fewell is "average" as a DC, middle of the pack  
SGMen : 10/28/2014 1:22 am : link
What we really need is for Moore to step up and become a 3rd down force as a pass rusher these last 9 games. We need Ayers to return to form and for JPP to be himself and stay healthy.

9-7 is a possibility, 8-8 the likelihood.
A trap game for the Cowboys...  
PonderingObserver : 10/28/2014 1:34 am : link
and they got snapped by a DC who was willing to take a risk.
RE: A trap game for the Cowboys...  
chris r : 10/28/2014 1:37 am : link
In comment 11944313 PonderingObserver said:
Quote:
and they got snapped by a DC who was willing to take a risk.


Again, have you seen Perry's blitzes? At least credit the guy for knowing his own weaknesses.
So then it's on the position coaches's failing (Nunn et al) or...  
PonderingObserver : 10/28/2014 3:27 am : link
on the talent evaluation and accumulation (i.e. Ross and Reese) ?
its simple...  
silverfox : 10/28/2014 4:11 am : link
...in a fewell defense if the front four don't get home, you lose most of the time. Its time for a new DC because Fewell is a one trick pony.
Watching the game I was thinking how our defensive scheme lacks  
joe48 : 10/28/2014 4:49 am : link
the creativity. We hardly ever blitz and probably because we are bad at execution. PF is not creative. We cannot blitz because we probably do not practice. I am so tired of watching our coaches march out the same game plan each week with the same mediocre results.
nothing  
dorgan : 10/28/2014 7:06 am : link
like the use of a cute little nickname for a coach, player, team, etc. more clearly points out an immature jackass.

Without responding to the OP...  
Dunedin81 : 10/28/2014 7:23 am : link
for the reasons Dorgan sums up nicely, let's not read THAT much into the game. Nice win for the Skins, but quick, short passes with YAC potential can do a number on a blitz package like that, even when it backs off and just sends four or five. The Cowboys were still largely working downfield and trying to open up the middle for Witten and so the blitzes were getting there. The passing game is designed to do that, working off the play action, because they have a great line. But you can have five Anthony Munozes on your line and if the rushers outnumber the blockers your QB isn't going to have time to throw it downfield. They didn't make adjustments (losing Romo didn't help) and so it worked for the entire game. They play Minnesota and TB next so they might even be able to go on a streak, but let's see if San Fran with a few weeks to prepare is caught off guard.
I read or heard one of the ex-NFL commentators  
Peter from CT : 10/28/2014 8:12 am : link
a say that the Tampa 2 defenses didn't work very well anymore. I didn't find that reassuring. I can't remember the last time we had a significant overload blitz like Washington was doing all night last night.
RE: nothing  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 8:25 am : link
In comment 11944353 dorgan said:
Quote:
like the use of a cute little nickname for a coach, player, team, etc. more clearly points out an immature jackass.


The "Perry Fool" or "Perry Awful" fans are the same lowest common denominator fans who still refer to the NFCE teams as things like "Cowgirls", "Egals" or "Foreskins"

I don't even know why I continue trying to inject any sort of reasonable football discussion into threads like this when it's clear there's none to be had.
Kerrigan's decent  
Greg from LI : 10/28/2014 8:27 am : link
Riley and Robinson are average at best. Granted, that's still more than you can say about Giant linebackers, but still....
more like ponderous observer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/28/2014 8:28 am : link
.
Blitzing  
cm512 : 10/28/2014 8:42 am : link
Why is everyone enamored with Blitzing? Good QB's typically carve up aggressive blitz schemes. Blitzing is another tool in the tool box but relying on it will get you burned. Blitzing needs to be timely and effective. Just blitzing all the time is not getting you anywhere in this league.
Blitzing is great if your defense can actually, you know, do it  
Greg from LI : 10/28/2014 8:43 am : link
The Giants can't. They have the least effective blitzes I've ever seen.
RE: Blitzing  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/28/2014 8:44 am : link
In comment 11944464 cm512 said:
Quote:
Why is everyone enamored with Blitzing? Good QB's typically carve up aggressive blitz schemes. Blitzing is another tool in the tool box but relying on it will get you burned. Blitzing needs to be timely and effective. Just blitzing all the time is not getting you anywhere in this league.


BBI are experts in overly simple solutions to complex issues.

The Redskins walked a tightrope last night. If anybody goofed on their coverages while they were blitzing 6,7,8 guys, that game gets blown open.
I was thinking of  
MattHofstra : 10/28/2014 8:58 am : link
What Carl banks said.. " the Giants don't know how to blitz"...an obvious indictment of Fewell .... And last night Haslett drew up some great blitz packages and it saved the game for Washington. Romo could have cooked a meal back there with our pass rush that game
Uh, Has Perry  
Doomster : 10/28/2014 10:21 am : link
ever successfully had blitz schemes? There was a time during a 6 game stretch.....

The Giants blitz plenty  
Dan in WNY : 10/28/2014 10:21 am : link
they just stink at it so it's hard to tell.

They also get repeatedly burned when they do
RE: I was thinking of  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 10:30 am : link
In comment 11944508 MattHofstra said:
Quote:
What Carl banks said.. " the Giants don't know how to blitz"...an obvious indictment of Fewell .... And last night Haslett drew up some great blitz packages and it saved the game for Washington. Romo could have cooked a meal back there with our pass rush that game


Maybe Banks meant that the guys who are actually blitzing suck at blitzing. Because that's what I'm seeing.

I've seen stunt attempts that were so bad that I'd just be inclined to say "yeah, forget it" if I were coaching.

I want Fewell to be aggressive and not just sit back when our front 4 can't get a push. But I also don't want to see 1 or 2 guys from the back 7 just taking themselves out of the play. And it feels like that's what we keep seeing.
Sometimes  
bignygfan : 10/28/2014 10:38 am : link
I wonder if any of our rushers know how to rush.
RE: nothing  
Randy in CT : 10/28/2014 10:43 am : link
In comment 11944353 dorgan said:
Quote:
like the use of a cute little nickname for a coach, player, team, etc. more clearly points out an immature jackass.
This.

Whatever is typed after that subject line can be dismissed.
What I got from  
Doomster : 10/28/2014 11:05 am : link
the blitz packages I saw last night was, guys having "clean" shots"(open lanes) at Romo...

When I watch a Giant blitz, everyone is picked up immediately, because their schemes are so vanilla......and then you have the occasional, get to the QB, and McClain or Demps misses the tackle...
Fewell doesn't know how to design blitz packages  
Geeman : 10/28/2014 11:22 am : link
hence he doesn't. I always laugh at the people that decry about the lack of talent on defense. The Giants have good talent on their defense, it's the design of the scheme that's average. Look how the Card defense stays aggressive regardless of the personnel they lose.
Skins last night were able to compensate for lack of a pass rush with the blitz, and it paid off. This is exactly what we DONOT do. Bank's comments were an indictment of Fewell.
How much more evidence is needed?...I would hope this is his last season here.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 11:27 am : link
The Cardinals gave up 521 total yards to the Eagles.

It's amazing how people will just look right past stuff like this as long they see a DC relentlessly blitzing.

I know ARZ won the game, but how effective could these blitzes possibly have been when they sacked Foles ZERO times and he threw for 411 yards and the Eagles converted nearly 50% of their 3rd downs.

Cannot for the life of me understand the rationale of some posters, but.. it is what it is.
I'd give Washington's offense a little credit too  
sjnyfan : 10/28/2014 11:42 am : link
They threw the ball deep more than we did, or have this season and when you have that threat it helps the entire offense. Washington also ran the ball more efficiently than we did which helped with TOP, a big part of the success in Dallas.

As for the defense I admittedly watched them and said "I wish we did this more". The Redskins had more jailbreak blitzes than I remember the Giants having in quite some time overall and it worked. Not only did they have 5 sacks, they had 12 hurries overall. We had 5 the previous week. Ryan Mundy had 3 for the Skins which was the most on the team. How often do you see us rush the passer from the safety position, just to shake things up? I mentioned in a thread yesterday I wish we'd use J. Williams speed to rush the passer more because when he does he's pretty effective imo. But we don't do it, not to mention not having Moore, Ayers and Hankins on the field more rushing the passer vs. Kiwi who's playing time needs to be cut significantly. You can't give Romo or any quality QB time to throw or they'll carve you up but if you can get pressure and disrupt their timing you have an advantage. In today's NFL especially you need to do it and we don't.

Same goes for the Eagles/Cardinals game. Arizona wasn't afraid to bring pressure. Even though we did better against the Eagles with 11 hurries, Arizona had 19. Sure these games could've went either way but their opponents stayed with it and won.
yet the Carfs have one if the best defenses in the league.  
Geeman : 10/28/2014 11:52 am : link
So what can be gleemed from this?
It doesn't work everytime but it is effective.
Hard to believe anyone would Cosign Fewell when it's obvious his units have struggled with communication for years and lack of imagination in designing blitz packages instead of relying solely on the front 4.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 12:09 pm : link
The Cardinals give up a ton of yards but force a lot of turnovers.

Who's defense does that sound like?
Arc  
sjnyfan : 10/28/2014 12:22 pm : link
The Cardinals give up 3.7 more yards per game than the Giants. Their scoring defense however is 5th in the league. They give up 19.9 points/game, almost exactly what they allowed the Eagles in a win. The Giants are 20th. The Cardinals, down three defensive starters from a year ago, one of which was a Pro Bowler and multiple games without their starting QB (even some snaps from their 3rd string rookie) are 6-1 leading what many considered the toughest division in the NFL. The Giants are 3-4.
RE: .  
chris r : 10/28/2014 12:26 pm : link
In comment 11944863 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
The Cardinals give up a ton of yards but force a lot of turnovers.

Who's defense does that sound like?


Not ours. They give up more than four points per game less than we do.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 12:32 pm : link
Yes, and they're also 15th in points for while we're 22nd. They played half their gamed with a backup QB. We did not.

I don't love going by PA and YA numbers anyway because teams are so tightly packed together and the ranks can flip all over the place easily.

Also, pick 6's and ST TD's count as points for and points against. Arizona has one of each. We have neither.
The shutout against Philly does make a difference  
sjnyfan : 10/28/2014 12:50 pm : link
and I hear you on the INT's and ST TD's but keep in mind that Arizona is 8th in points per defensive drive and we're 18th.

Also, Arizona has only given up more than 20 points in one game, their 41-20 loss to the Broncos in Denver, a game where Logan Thomas (who has no business playing QB) had to play snaps killing momentum and TOP. That was a close game until then. 17 of those point were after he came in.

In their 6 wins they've given up 17,14,14,20,13,20 or 16.33 pts/gm
I think it would be better if we emulated the Jets  
montanagiant : 10/28/2014 12:59 pm : link
and the success they have
.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 1:17 pm : link
Arizona's defense is playing well, there's no doubt.

I just didn't think they played well against the Eagles. The points against look solid but they gave up a LOT of yardage. Foles threw for over 400, the Eagles rushed for another 110.. they converted a lot of 3rd downs. It was just weird to me to see all these posters praising Todd Bowles during that particular game just because they blitzed a lot. Giving up 521 yards of offense just isn't good. I don't care how you slice it and I'd say the same thing if it were us.

Points per drive against is a much more accurate reflection than points allowed, IMO. And so, the Giants in that regard reflect what I think they are defensively more or less. Average-slightly below. I think they could be on the other side of average (slightly above rather than below) but I don't see this unit being much better than that. I had really, really high hopes before Hill was cut and Thurmond was lost and DRC got really banged up... and Beason got hurt.. but.. those are the breaks, I guess. I thought with all those guys this would easily be a top 10 defense.

RE: RE: nothing  
mrvax : 10/28/2014 1:41 pm : link
In comment 11944420 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 11944353 dorgan said:


Quote:


like the use of a cute little nickname for a coach, player, team, etc. more clearly points out an immature jackass.




The "Perry Fool" or "Perry Awful" fans are the same lowest common denominator fans who still refer to the NFCE teams as things like "Cowgirls", "Egals" or "Foreskins"

I don't even know why I continue trying to inject any sort of reasonable football discussion into threads like this when it's clear there's none to be had.


arc: I'd agree totally with your post but I do believe the use of "Foreskins" is a reasonably acceptable name for that team.

Carry on.
Arc  
Geeman : 10/28/2014 2:59 pm : link
The Cards lost Washington and Dockett, both are PBers and better than what we lost not to mention there pass rushing DE Abrahams retirment after concussions and they didn't miss a beat due in large part to the scheme they deploy.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/28/2014 3:20 pm : link
I don't think anyone here knows as much about their 11 starters on defense aside from guys like Patrick Peterson (who is one of the best CB's in football), Cromartie, Mathieu and maybe Foote.

Not sure how you can draw the conclusion that it's all scheme based. Maybe some of those guys are actually good players and are playing at a high level.

If you asked anyone outside of NY who Trumaine McBride was last year, no one would have known. But he was a starter for us and did a really good job.

You're going to be hard pressed to find upper tier defensive units with a bunch of nobodies. DC's can put their players in certain positions but it's on the players to actually make the plays.
another good defender on the Cards is Calais Campbell  
Greg from LI : 10/28/2014 3:31 pm : link
Although he's been banged up this year. He was active for the Eagles game but I'm not sure how much he actually played.
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