Does anyone think that Reese was a little too self-serving

with the he can play better comment. The guy is in a new system after a decade in a previous system. Eli and the offense took shit in the offseason and pre season, and rightfully so. However, they are a work in progress offense and Eli has played well. His numbers are good for a guy in a new system with weak surrounding cast.

I am not sure what Reese expects.

The team is 3-4, both Jerry and TC pointed to the need for more big plays. I think it is a statement of intent, that we have to unleash Eli and the passing game. This is something that many on BBI have been asking for.

But I really don't see how he gets much blame for these past two losses. It's not his fault Donnell can't hold on to the ball.

Vic, I think you see/hear what you want.

They were the same answers Jerry Reese has been giving for 7 years.

In comment 11944467 AnishPatel said:

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with the he can play better comment. The guy is in a new system after a decade in a previous system. Eli and the offense took shit in the offseason and pre season, and rightfully so. However, they are a work in progress offense and Eli has played well. His numbers are good for a guy in a new system with weak surrounding cast. I am not sure what Reese expects.

Me neither AP. I really think Eli picked up a new and completely different concept and has done quite well with it despite a weak OL and injuries to Cruz and Jennings, Beckham missing the first 5 weeks and all of preseason.

.

and I'm sure he has some awareness that the other two will be gone long before he is (right or wrong).

Even if true, he can't exactly say "Most of the fixes I brought in suck and the team still significantly lacks talent" though, as that just blatantly tosses most of the roster under the bus and waves a team-wide white flag.

In comment 11944475 Greg from LI said:

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But I really don't see how he gets much blame for these past two losses. It's not his fault Donnell can't hold on to the ball.

Where did anyone blame Eli for those losses, besides BBI?

I never listen to GM interviews because, generally, they say virtually nothing of interest.

with the offense being too conservative but it's tough to open things up with the weapons they have....one journeyman WR, one WR who is maddingly inconsistent, a rookie who is learning how to get open in the NFL while on the job and a TE still learning the nuances of the game....not to mention the rookie RB learning patience, etc. I didn't however think he threw anyone under any bus with his comments.

I am conservative in nature so I hesitate to make dramatic changes. If I were John Mara I would be patient with the current Reese/TC brain trust. Reese had some really poor drafts that are clearly hurting this team right now. Players that should be contributing and entering their prime are not on the roster anymore, but his extended track record is pretty good. Hopefully he can draft well over the next two years and set-up Eli for the final act of his career.

well as deflect some blame from the rest of the subpar roster.

He said the same sorts of things about JPP -- can play better, needs to see more sacks, etc.

Remember, before the season, Reese openly said the team the FO built would go as far as Eli and JPP played... They've both played well and team is dead in October. It makes him (Reese) look like a bit of a fool/exposes the job he did with the rest of the roster to an extent.

has had his share of misses for sure but it's hard to blame him for Will Hill, Thurmond, Taylor, Beason, a limited DRC, Cruz, Schwartz, Wilson and Jennings...even factoring in the spotty play of the Oline, that list pretty much sums up the Giants 2014 story.

but if you're the nearly $20m QB, it's not unrealistic to expect better than good. He's left some plays on the field, in some cases because he looked worried about the possibility of turning it over. That was certainly the case in the Dallas game.

Is that the reason why we're 3-4? No. But if we're going to improve from here, are we going to need better out of Eli? Absolutely.

This is why I said if I were Eli, I'd actually forgo some cash to get the team to build up around me. I know it's easy to sit in an armchair and give up millions, but IMO it'd make his life a lot easier and the public/media perception of Eli would probably greatly improve.

the problem, period...he's performing exactly as he should in this system...the one he just learned from scratch, btw.

I mean he got Jennings, who looks like an absolute steal. DRC, Thurmond, Bowen, and Ayers all look good. I suppose it's his fault the injury bug has hit most of those guys, including Schwartz??? The last two drafts look very promising. Do folks really want to blow up the front office based on perceived problems with drafts from 08-12 which, by the way, included a SB winning season in '11? They were drafting near the end of the rounds during a few of those drafts and had some additional bad luck with injuries. I don't see the FO as a major problem right now.

He deserves the most blames and by a huge margin. Expecting a career backup, who is not meant or built to carry the heavy load, be the only complete back on the team is on him.. What did he expect out of this DLine after we've let go of 2 productive starters from last year? Kiwi and Beatty contracts? Oline is dreadful once again... I just hope that someday he realizes that DLine and Line backers are more important than WR...

I don't want him fired but there is no way in hell are WR more important than LB and Dline..I'll take a top notch front 7 over any group of recievers in the game..

In comment 11944575 chuckydee9 said:

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He deserves the most blames and by a huge margin. Expecting a career backup, who is not meant or built to carry the heavy load, be the only complete back on the team is on him.. What did he expect out of this DLine after we've let go of 2 productive starters from last year? Kiwi and Beatty contracts? Oline is dreadful once again... I just hope that someday he realizes that DLine and Line backers are more important than WR... I don't want him fired but there is no way in hell are WR more important than LB and Dline..I'll take a top notch front 7 over any group of recievers in the game..

Kiwi and Beatty are paid like mid level veterans, not superstars.

The DLine? He expected it to bounce back with a return to health from JPP, the progression of Moore and the addition of Ayers (who looked good until he got banged up). Hankins has certainly filled the void of Linval Joseph. Jenkins also now hurt.

Think about our WR corps withour Beckham Jr right now... its a pretty scary thought

Ha, are you kidding? Rant follows.

Like people in Washington, the CDC, for example, he can do no wrong and never has in his own eyes. Most of this Board seems to think that the guy will never be replaced and even that he should not be. Failure to replace him guarantees continuing failure by the Giants to (i) get and train players in the draft or in FA who are NFL-capable (healthy enough, strong enough, big enough, fast enough, agile enough, and football-smart enough) to win; and (ii) get coaches who can devise and execute offensive and defensive schemes that can win in today's NFL. Reese does not seem to think there's anything wrong with what's on the table in those regards now. Self-serving piece of junk GM -- an idiot and demonstrated failure! Latest proof: contrast the way the Giants played and lost to Dallas a week ago and how the rapidly improving Redskins played and won against Dallas last night.

But, but, but, we're missing key players; may of our players are very young and inexperienced, and we have an immobile QB; and we have a bad coach for the D! No fairsies!

Why are we missing them? Why do we get guys who can't stay healthy enough to play? And most of those who take the field are not very good to begin with (take Randle, Kiwi, and our LBs, for example). Why do we continue to count on an immobile QB with all the limitations on O-play that implies? Why do we have a continuing f%*k-up for a D Coach? Starts at the top. Always does for losers.

and how is a player getting injured in the course of work the fault of the GM?

Other than the factually incorrect parts and the nonsensical parts, solid rant.

comment too. The dude is off to one of his best starts as a pro (if not absolutely the best start of his career). He's the only reason we're still on life support for a playoff spot and you say that?

Granted, I think his intention was to refer to the play calling, but it sounded like he was criticizing both that and Eli when he has had the chance to make plays.

In comment 11944595 Giantology said:

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Kiwi and Beatty are paid like mid level veterans, not superstars. The DLine? He expected it to bounce back with a return to health from JPP, the progression of Moore and the addition of Ayers (who looked good until he got banged up). Hankins has certainly filled the void of Linval Joseph. Jenkins also now hurt. Think about our WR corps withour Beckham Jr right now... its a pretty scary thought

Beatty is horrendous.. I don't care what PFF said.. So you are going to use 1 example of WR that has played 2 games over the fact that for the past 32 games our OL has been horrendous... and could have used help... the fact that from 2008 to 2012 he drafted WR after WR in the first 3 rounds.. I am not talking about just this year...

In the NFL defensive front 7 and OL are far more important that WR...yet we outspent premium picks on WRs.. Our defensive line sucks.. I think every RB we've played against has had their best game against us.. but we will keep chanting that Hankins has played better than Linval.. We could've kept both.. We could have invested early picks on Players that actually win games over the ones that get Fantasy wins and sports center highlights..

In comment 11944564 Mike L. said:

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I mean he got Jennings, who looks like an absolute steal. DRC, Thurmond, Bowen, and Ayers all look good. I suppose it's his fault the injury bug has hit most of those guys, including Schwartz??? The last two drafts look very promising. Do folks really want to blow up the front office based on perceived problems with drafts from 08-12 which, by the way, included a SB winning season in '11? They were drafting near the end of the rounds during a few of those drafts and had some additional bad luck with injuries. I don't see the FO as a major problem right now.

Agree, the FO is certainly not above criticism but some here act like they're in Raiders or Jets territory.

I guess everybody forgot the entire 2011 season, when Eli and the WRs carried the team on their backs not just through the regular season, but through the playoffs.

But yes, let's just dismiss that as "fantasy stats".

Until that defensive front 7 took over (Dline really)...Yes the WR were key.. but we shut out (if not for the Officials) one of the best offenses ever.. no team scored 17+ points on us during the 6 games where our defensive front 7 played well... I guess they get don't get any credit for winning the super bowl..

No matter what example of 1 you can come up with ... It is not sufficient to say that WR are as important as Dline...

I have no problem with Jerry complaining about lack of big play shots, but he shouldn't be calling out the play calling.

He'd be better served to comment to the effect of, "we really need to put up more points with big plays, but until we get the offensive line sorted out that's going to be problematic."

Even a highly mobile QB like the young David Carr had his career derailed by a woeful offensive line in Houston. It's amazing Eli can get off the passes he has with that crappy blocking.

Reese did not come off well at all in that presser.

to feel heat. I do agree with his comments, but the Oline needs to play better and WRS need to get open for ElI to open it up too. Additionally, we need to have the threat of a running game. Eli is and always has been good at going deep with play action.

Additionally, getting D Moore more playing time is a no brainer. It's time to see what we have in him and if DE will be a need going into next year.

I can't wait to hear Reese's comments after the season.

I will judge him on those comments and not on our final record.

In comment 11944630 chuckydee9 said:

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In comment 11944595 Giantology said: Quote: Kiwi and Beatty are paid like mid level veterans, not superstars. The DLine? He expected it to bounce back with a return to health from JPP, the progression of Moore and the addition of Ayers (who looked good until he got banged up). Hankins has certainly filled the void of Linval Joseph. Jenkins also now hurt. Think about our WR corps withour Beckham Jr right now... its a pretty scary thought Beatty is horrendous.. I don't care what PFF said.. So you are going to use 1 example of WR that has played 2 games over the fact that for the past 32 games our OL has been horrendous... and could have used help... the fact that from 2008 to 2012 he drafted WR after WR in the first 3 rounds.. I am not talking about just this year... In the NFL defensive front 7 and OL are far more important that WR...yet we outspent premium picks on WRs.. Our defensive line sucks.. I think every RB we've played against has had their best game against us.. but we will keep chanting that Hankins has played better than Linval.. We could've kept both.. We could have invested early picks on Players that actually win games over the ones that get Fantasy wins and sports center highlights..

Beatty is not horrendous. He played well enough in 2011 and 2012 as one of our most consistent OL, and then struggled last year with injury and poor play (and didn't get much help from the guys next to him, either). He's a slightly above average LT who's play is more than good enough to win games.

And it is not some fact that any one position is necessarily more important than the other. There is more than one way to build an NFL team. Not having talented players at the offensive skill positions means little to no points and not a lot of wins. How many elite defenses do you see in the NFL today?

I didn't take the comments as an indictment on Eli. If anything, I think Reese was saying that Eli is capable of more, the staff just needs to trust him to do it and put the ball in his hands more. Which I agree with.

We aren't going to win games in this league playing close to the vest and trying to win 20-14.

I'm not suggesting we just get totally reckless, but. I think there's a little too much emphasis on balance sometimes. I'd rather start a game with 3 straight pass plays than 3 straight run plays. They don't have to be bombs, either. I think what Eli is doing this year, he's doing well. We should do it more.

he was honest and straightforward in his answers. He thinks the team can play better. Of course they can. Eli essentially said the same thing.

After the Idzak horror show yesterday, I would think people would appreciate Reese's candor instead of reading all kinds of motives into his comments.

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Q: When you look at their futures, is it something you would consider taking care of now or is that something you would prefer to handle after the season? A: We’re just trying to win the game Monday night. Those things will take care of themselves after the season. Right now we’re focused on trying to get back in this race and trying to get to .500, trying to beat a good football team that’s coming in here on Monday night and get some momentum going down the stretch. That’s really what we’re focused on right now.

Unless Reese is about to make a trade for a starter, he's not "just trying to win the game Monday night." Does he break down film? Scout the opposition? Help run practice? No. So you know what this is like?

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MRS 81_GREAT_DANE: Honey, would you consider fixing the cabinets and the screen door this week? 81_GREAT_DANE: I'm just trying to win the Giants game Monday night. Those things will take care of themselves after the season. Right now I'm just focused on trying to get the Giants back in this race and trying to get them to .500, trying to get them to beat a good football team that’s coming into Metlife on Monday night and get them some momentum going down the stretch. That’s really what I'm focused on right now.

when Reese talks to the media. I'd prefer Coughlin to be the public face of the administration, and let Mara and Reese handle their business mostly behind the scenes, at least when it comes to directly talking about the state of the team.

That only refers to the current roster mind you, I have no problem with Reese talking about the draft or free agency. I just feel like the current roster should be the domain of the head coach in the public eye. Causes less problems

And Eli took a lot of chances that led to picks. I think the coaching has to do a better job on the OL with all these stupid false starts and holding calls. I think the O line and D line needs to be more aggressive if anything

if TC refuses to use him?

despite his role in winning the two championships after an 86 year drought. Two Superbowls should not make Reese immune to criticisms, especially given the inconsistent nature of this team since he took the job.

The neglect prior to the selection of Pugh was criminal. Holy shit.

He was if he keeps his job and we continue to suck. He wasn't if he keeps his job and we get better and become "competitive".

Was Reese self serving? I'd say so, but management is like that.

As far as calling players, or Eli out, well, they can deal with a little pressure. Isn't necessarily a bad thing to put the screws to them.You put your foot on a mans neck, men respond, bitches squeal.

Can Eli play better? I think he can. I think he has done very well this year, and I think he can do better still. I am not sure we have seen Eli Mannings best football yet.I myself hope and believe he will end up in the HoF, but it may be he still has to add to his body of work to get there.If they had the proper support, I think he and TC have another SB in them.

In comment 11944610 Percy said:

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Ha, are you kidding? Rant follows. Like people in Washington, the CDC, for example, he can do no wrong and never has in his own eyes. Most of this Board seems to think that the guy will never be replaced and even that he should not be. Failure to replace him guarantees continuing failure by the Giants to (i) get and train players in the draft or in FA who are NFL-capable (healthy enough, strong enough, big enough, fast enough, agile enough, and football-smart enough) to win; and (ii) get coaches who can devise and execute offensive and defensive schemes that can win in today's NFL. Reese does not seem to think there's anything wrong with what's on the table in those regards now. Self-serving piece of junk GM -- an idiot and demonstrated failure! Latest proof: contrast the way the Giants played and lost to Dallas a week ago and how the rapidly improving Redskins played and won against Dallas last night. But, but, but, we're missing key players; may of our players are very young and inexperienced, and we have an immobile QB; and we have a bad coach for the D! No fairsies! Why are we missing them? Why do we get guys who can't stay healthy enough to play? And most of those who take the field are not very good to begin with (take Randle, Kiwi, and our LBs, for example). Why do we continue to count on an immobile QB with all the limitations on O-play that implies? Why do we have a continuing f%*k-up for a D Coach? Starts at the top. Always does for losers.

Agree

Giants are playing catch up with personnel and a DC that has not changed his scheme to fit current personnel . Our scheme does not work well in a passing league.

are more important then the WR's. Even in 2011, the OL played out of its mind and certainly better then its overall talent level.

Eli was among the most pressured QBs in the league and the run game struggled in significant part due to the blocking. Things improved in the playoffs, in total, but not to some level where anyone sane would call their performance great.

That team was carried by a QB playing out of his mind and three good WRs. And if that was the OL playing above their talent level to any significant degree, that's an incredible blight on the staff's ability to evaluate talent.

the mistakes soar

In comment 11945425 xman said:

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the mistakes soar

How frustrating it must be that Eli's mistakes have been down so you haven't had as many opportunities to knock him this year

They still spend a lot of time admiring their reflection in the Super Bowl trophies.Answering questions with "Well, in 2007...",as if they built the team.They may have fixed a few broken windows and put some chewing gum on a water leak,but the truth is Reese didn't bring in the majority of the players or Coughlin.

In comment 11945483 ghost718 said:

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They still spend a lot of time admiring their reflection in the Super Bowl trophies.Answering questions with "Well, in 2007...",as if they built the team.They may have fixed a few broken windows and put some chewing gum on a water leak,but the truth is Reese didn't bring in the majority of the players or Coughlin.

What do you think Jerry Reese was doing before he was the GM of the New York Football Giants? He absolutely had something to do with the players that were brought in prior to his being the GM.

I'm also sure it's greatly exaggerated how much by people outside of the war room,who also want to place the blame elsewhere and keep our 2 time Superbowl winning GM.

Its really that simple.

The message is, if Eli & JPP have to play better, then, definitely, so do other players, considering Eli & JPP have had good seasons so far.

I dont think its "self-serving"... its a GM doing his job and telling everybody on the team that things aren't satisfactory, and need to get better.