One, they want to see more of him doing the right thing off the field and, two, they want to see more of him on the field. Well, nobody is saying he doesn't know the scheme this year. Both Reese and TC are saying they want to see him play more so why isn't he playing more? This is a question for Fewell.
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
In Philly there was big debate as to whether McCoy asked out a game at the end or was pulled when they were playing the Rams. Former players, seemed to indicate that it is the position coach who subs players. That said, Fewell or Coughlin probably makes the call as to how much a player gets in pre-game as in this player should play x amount of snaps or be on the field in these situations.
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
In Philly there was big debate as to whether McCoy asked out a game at the end or was pulled when they were playing the Rams. Former players, seemed to indicate that it is the position coach who subs players. That said, Fewell or Coughlin probably makes the call as to how much a player gets in pre-game as in this player should play x amount of snaps or be on the field in these situations.
Yea, I assume all players can ask out if they need a breather at any time.
My point was more that TC can "suggest" Moore gets more snaps, but its not always within his control if the position coach is making the subs. Especially if they want to limit Moore's snaps in run situations. If the rest of the D can't force 2nd/3rd and longs, then there are only going to be so many pass rush chances.
I read that article and the specific comments by Moore is that he's still screwing up his assignments and that's the reason he's not seeing more playing time.
"Damontre! earn your reps!, meanwhile we will trot out an ineffective Kiwanuka time and time again until you earn it!"
It has to do with performing in practice, demonstrating he understands and he can effectively do his job without mistakes and penalties. He's had some issues in this regard during games, and has been proven to be inconsistent, which reduces coaches' confidence in him.
Kiwanuka is a respected veteran, coaches will normally default to that player over the inconsistent youngster until there's some sort of demonstrated breakthrough. Putting him in games otherwise presents a risk to the game at hand, and the coaches' job, ultimately.
I dealt with this first hand when I played the game, it sucks but it's a core element of earning reps. Growing pains, etc. A lot of it is mental, they're training their brains and football instincts.
I'm tired of waiting for Kiwi to have his career year Â
only parts of the route tree and related assignments.
Conversely, opponents would spot it on pre-season game film, which would tip them off as to what plays we might run with him split out wide.
I'm as down on Kiwanuka as the rest of BBI, but it's infrequent that your young and green #4 DE or #5 WR is going to contribute more than the #3 veteran.
and its not surprising. His value to this team declines every game that passes as I can't imagine he is re-signed. And he has basically no positive impact at that DE spot in run or pass other than he has limited negative impact.
NEWS FLASH: that won't win us any more games!
Not saying look for higher production by giving more reps to D Moore over Kiwi, but at least there is future value that has to be seasoned.
Jordan pointed out earlier this season they had reduced his reps Â
with RBs that can hurt you, and get to the edges, in McCoy and Murray. Maybe they don't trust Moore to stick with his assignments against the run. Hopefully Moore will get more opportunities against teams with less dangerous (in terms of potential big play) RBs.
I agree with Jupiter in getting those guys more reps. I'm trying hard not to see this as just a fan but someone who is looking forward to young player evaluation & development.
Decisions have to be made in the off-season. If we have talent, it takes live game actions to prove it.
mrvax, I don't disagree entirely but I don't have much faith in the unit either, so my expectations are low. Ayers is the same player he's been elsewhere, so far. Moore is the wildcard and you'll see plenty of him at some point, definitely against lesser competition or favorable matchups.
to get him more reps. Kiwi has faded. Great soldier, but I think his time here is nearing the end. Ayers has been very good, but we need a third option. Remember though Moore is still very young, 21 I think, so it might take him until next season to really blossom, especially as a run defender. Bromley should also be playing on Monday, assuming that Jenkins can't go.
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
I think you are correct. TC being the excellent leader he is does not micromanage his coaches. He gives them advice and the responsibility they need to run their respective areas. He may walk over to a coach during a game and make some suggestions and maybe a second time make the suggestion stronger but I doubt he's calling the shots on who goes in and out on each play during the game.
they just never put their best athletes on the field...they rather have team captains out there...
by the way, OBJ, Richburg, Kennard, Williams...Pugh, last year...all out of necessity. If fact, I'm very surprised that Williams is out there if he can't pick up a blitz...the only rookie I felt really had a handle on things and earned his spot was Steve Smith.
It's TC's mantra that he plays his vets, because he remembers what they use to play like, and hopes that they can have that kind of game.....
Rookies and second year players, as a general rule do not take a veteran's spot, UNLESS, it is usually an injury, that forces TC's hand......there have been many times where someone has taken over for an injured vet, and when the vet is ready to play, back into the lineup he goes, even though the guy he is replacing may have played better than him....
We have to know what we have in Moore over these last nine Â
games and the only way we'll know that is if starts playing more now and starts a few games by season end.
I don't see Kiwi being re-signed. I think Jenkins, at his age, will also be let go along with DT Mike Patterson. We are going to have to draft and sign some DL's this off-season.
We clearly need a RT, DT, and S via free agency this off-season. I think we'll re-sign CB W. Thurmond off his injury. We also have to hope Bromley comes on and shows a little these last nine games if active.
Moore, please be the goods - please! We need to get a break after all these years of bad drafting.
Listen, if the kid can be a weapon and is ready let him play. It sounds like he at least is confident in himself and his teammates are also confident in him.
When the team "self-scouts" and they see Kiwi being there a step to slow consistently, I think it kind of makes sense to up Moore's rep's and see what happens.
Anyway, he has flashed potential, it's only year 2 and he came out early. He's only 22.
If this movie plays out well, the NYG unleash him and the overall pass rush is improved as a result. That would be great.....
moore is doing something behind the scenes that is pissing the coaches off
for all we know he is coming in late, blowing off treatments, not working with the guys, or partying too much. he has an immature streak in him that was part of his college evaluation
moore is doing something behind the scenes that is pissing the coaches off
for all we know he is coming in late, blowing off treatments, not working with the guys, or partying too much. he has an immature streak in him that was part of his college evaluation
Maybe so. Immaturity is part of what being 21 (rookie) and 22 (September 2014 birthday at that) is all about. Maybe he's learning now that the coaches and GM seem to be using his name more? We'll see on Monday night and beyond.
Lets face it, we really need him to be a starting DE with above average pass rush and serviceable run defense. He is long, lean and needs another off-season in the weight room. If he can get to the QB with pressures this year and show something I'll be pleased.
We may need a total overhaul of the DL this off-season as Kiwi, Patterson and Jenkins could all be gone due to age / performance. Hard to say just yet but I'm not counting on any of them for 2015. That means we need 3 new faces to fill the holes in 2015.
we have trouble with our pass rush.
there is a young player on the bench that has flashed edge rush talent.
he doesnt play.
the guy that plays has been poor against the run and the pass.
It gets old watching kiwi more then it gets old not watching Moore.
If you cant hit in limited practice... and you dont play in the game... when are you supposed to flash?
just put the guy on the field... there is limited downside as the player he is stepping in for on snaps is not a good football player.
(snort)Good question.
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
Quote:
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
Quote:
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
It's probably Nunn.
In Philly there was big debate as to whether McCoy asked out a game at the end or was pulled when they were playing the Rams. Former players, seemed to indicate that it is the position coach who subs players. That said, Fewell or Coughlin probably makes the call as to how much a player gets in pre-game as in this player should play x amount of snaps or be on the field in these situations.
Yea, I assume all players can ask out if they need a breather at any time.
My point was more that TC can "suggest" Moore gets more snaps, but its not always within his control if the position coach is making the subs. Especially if they want to limit Moore's snaps in run situations. If the rest of the D can't force 2nd/3rd and longs, then there are only going to be so many pass rush chances.
At the same time, it's gotta be tough to get in a rhythm when you're getting 2-3 snaps a series.
I never understood this...
"Damontre! earn your reps!, meanwhile we will trot out an ineffective Kiwanuka time and time again until you earn it!"
Neither has Kiwanuka. And yet......
Quote:
It's up to Moore to earn game reps.
I never understood this...
"Damontre! earn your reps!, meanwhile we will trot out an ineffective Kiwanuka time and time again until you earn it!"
It has to do with performing in practice, demonstrating he understands and he can effectively do his job without mistakes and penalties. He's had some issues in this regard during games, and has been proven to be inconsistent, which reduces coaches' confidence in him.
Kiwanuka is a respected veteran, coaches will normally default to that player over the inconsistent youngster until there's some sort of demonstrated breakthrough. Putting him in games otherwise presents a risk to the game at hand, and the coaches' job, ultimately.
I dealt with this first hand when I played the game, it sucks but it's a core element of earning reps. Growing pains, etc. A lot of it is mental, they're training their brains and football instincts.
The Giants need to commit to starting DEs JPP and Moore or JPP and Ayers. Kiwi needs to drop back to 4th in the rotation.
While they are at it, they need to accelerate the development of Bromley and Kennard by getting them more defensive snaps.
And why does Washington have to become a special teams ace before he can get additional snaps on offense?
Conversely, opponents would spot it on pre-season game film, which would tip them off as to what plays we might run with him split out wide.
I'm as down on Kiwanuka as the rest of BBI, but it's infrequent that your young and green #4 DE or #5 WR is going to contribute more than the #3 veteran.
NEWS FLASH: that won't win us any more games!
Not saying look for higher production by giving more reps to D Moore over Kiwi, but at least there is future value that has to be seasoned.
We're average to below average in terms of DE talent outside of JPP.
Decisions have to be made in the off-season. If we have talent, it takes live game actions to prove it.
Quote:
about his playing time be a question for Fewell? TC is saying he needs to be in the rotation more. Well then why is he not in the rotation more?
Who actually makes the in-game subs? I assume during the week or after reviewing the tape, TC might say "Moore looked good out there. Let's try and find ways to get him more snaps", but I assume TC isn't the one on game day telling guys when to go in/out. Is it Fewell? A position coach?
I think you are correct. TC being the excellent leader he is does not micromanage his coaches. He gives them advice and the responsibility they need to run their respective areas. He may walk over to a coach during a game and make some suggestions and maybe a second time make the suggestion stronger but I doubt he's calling the shots on who goes in and out on each play during the game.
The Giants need to commit to starting DEs JPP and Moore or JPP and Ayers. Kiwi needs to drop back to 4th in the rotation.
While they are at it, they need to accelerate the development of Bromley and Kennard by getting them more defensive snaps.
And why does Washington have to become a special teams ace before he can get additional snaps on offense?
Agree on Bromley. In the few snaps he got the first couple games, he looked better than Kuhn. And Patterson hasn't been very good.
Kennard was injured early on though. I think he started last game alongside JW and McClain and will likely stay there unless he gets banged up again.
We're average to below average in terms of DE talent outside of JPP.
I think Ayers is/was playing banged up.
And an average DE should be able to make some plays with JPP/Hankins (and even Jenkins) drawing the attention that they do.
Agreed. Old, cranky TC hates playing rookies.
- Beckham, Richburg, Williams, & Kennard
by the way, OBJ, Richburg, Kennard, Williams...Pugh, last year...all out of necessity. If fact, I'm very surprised that Williams is out there if he can't pick up a blitz...the only rookie I felt really had a handle on things and earned his spot was Steve Smith.
And a half capable WR is still more effective then the black hole we currently feature.
Either play Robinson or cut him. Right now he's dead weight.
It's TC's mantra that he plays his vets, because he remembers what they use to play like, and hopes that they can have that kind of game.....
Rookies and second year players, as a general rule do not take a veteran's spot, UNLESS, it is usually an injury, that forces TC's hand......there have been many times where someone has taken over for an injured vet, and when the vet is ready to play, back into the lineup he goes, even though the guy he is replacing may have played better than him....
I don't see Kiwi being re-signed. I think Jenkins, at his age, will also be let go along with DT Mike Patterson. We are going to have to draft and sign some DL's this off-season.
We clearly need a RT, DT, and S via free agency this off-season. I think we'll re-sign CB W. Thurmond off his injury. We also have to hope Bromley comes on and shows a little these last nine games if active.
Moore, please be the goods - please! We need to get a break after all these years of bad drafting.
Listen, if the kid can be a weapon and is ready let him play. It sounds like he at least is confident in himself and his teammates are also confident in him.
When the team "self-scouts" and they see Kiwi being there a step to slow consistently, I think it kind of makes sense to up Moore's rep's and see what happens.
Anyway, he has flashed potential, it's only year 2 and he came out early. He's only 22.
If this movie plays out well, the NYG unleash him and the overall pass rush is improved as a result. That would be great.....
for all we know he is coming in late, blowing off treatments, not working with the guys, or partying too much. he has an immature streak in him that was part of his college evaluation
for all we know he is coming in late, blowing off treatments, not working with the guys, or partying too much. he has an immature streak in him that was part of his college evaluation
Lets face it, we really need him to be a starting DE with above average pass rush and serviceable run defense. He is long, lean and needs another off-season in the weight room. If he can get to the QB with pressures this year and show something I'll be pleased.
We may need a total overhaul of the DL this off-season as Kiwi, Patterson and Jenkins could all be gone due to age / performance. Hard to say just yet but I'm not counting on any of them for 2015. That means we need 3 new faces to fill the holes in 2015.
- D. Moore
there is a young player on the bench that has flashed edge rush talent.
he doesnt play.
the guy that plays has been poor against the run and the pass.
It gets old watching kiwi more then it gets old not watching Moore.
If you cant hit in limited practice... and you dont play in the game... when are you supposed to flash?
just put the guy on the field... there is limited downside as the player he is stepping in for on snaps is not a good football player.