Eli's prime time goes down the drain - Article

and the guy is the goods. Actually reminds me of Eli, except he seems physically stronger and much faster. Guy makes crazy throws under pressure, refuses to take sacks (his desperation sidearm toss to avoid a sack remind you of anyone?) and he will try to throw guys open and give his guys a chance to win on the ball.

That said the Giants gift-wrapped the only Colt TD in the first half with a mental error and Rolle dropped any easy pick late in the first half.

Do not even get me started on the DRC epic fucking fail. He had that ball ripped fron him like he was a baby, that should have been a pick against Luck and things may have been a bit different with a big stop there. But, as is their MO the D shit the bed right after the O scored a TD.

My point is that the Colts are cleary better, they are a contender while the Giants are not. But, I did not see this all world Luck that can not be beat. Guy also puts up crazy stats since all the Colts do is throw.

To me put Eli on the Colts with their guys and game plan and Eli would light it up. Put Luck on the Giants with their "talent" on O and the result would be the same.

...although he'll never admit it publicly...is that he will never get back to the big game with this organization. I think he knows that deep down. His body language is almost unwatchable now...this once 2x SB MVP reduced to just shaking his head and going through the motions is perhaps the hardest thing to watch at this point.

In comment 11957285 silverfox said:

Quote:

...although he'll never admit it publicly...is that he will never get back to the big game with this organization. I think he knows that deep down. His body language is almost unwatchable now...this once 2x SB MVP reduced to just shaking his head and going through the motions is perhaps the hardest thing to watch at this point.

Can you blame him? I feel his pain. Put yourself in his shoes. No one does anything right, from the OL to route running to even holding on to the god damn ball if and when they make the catch.

It has to be painful to be surrounded by that.

to waste Eli like this. I will never forgive Reese if he survives and TC is let go.

To waste Eli with this shit roster and to give TC this kind of send off is bullshit.

was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent.

whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best.

again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

going forward. The rest I can take or leave.

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said:

Quote:

was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

Then you would agree that luck wasn't particularly good last night as well? Two dropped INTs. Really low passing percentage. Clearly affected by the rush.

But you won't hear the talking heads talk about that though, right?

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said:

Quote:

was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

Please stop. You have to be kidding.

Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome?

In comment 11957285 silverfox said:

Quote:

...although he'll never admit it publicly...is that he will never get back to the big game with this organization. I think he knows that deep down. His body language is almost unwatchable now...this once 2x SB MVP reduced to just shaking his head and going through the motions is perhaps the hardest thing to watch at this point.

I have to agree. This is not a one-year rebuilding process. We need talent in too many areas to acquire it in one year. Even if you look at a bad team like Jacksonville, you can see that they have a pretty damn good defense, and need just a few pieces offensively to compete. We need OL, WR's, LB's DB's...too much to do in a year, even 2.

.

In comment 11957324 drkenneth said:

Quote:

Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome?

brady has had no name or rookie wide receivers, running backs, tight ends and patch work offensive lines for a number of years. same with peyton; both of them have been ridiculously consistent and made their surrounding talent look great.

eli was off on a number of his throws last night and you can point your finger at the receivers for miscommunications all you want, but you rarely see that with the top flight QBs

the over-rating of eli on this site is ridiculous.

In comment 11957320 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said: Quote: was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect. Then you would agree that luck wasn't particularly good last night as well? Two dropped INTs. Really low passing percentage. Clearly affected by the rush. But you won't hear the talking heads talk about that though, right?

Luck had a rough night, but he was able to drive the ball down the field more consistently than eli

as talented as those QBs. Over rate ELi? Eli is a damn good QB who right now probably is getting his soul crushed being surrounded by these fools on offense. There is no way he can elevate this offense. We are not good enough talent wise. Not to mention it's year 1 of the system. Just not happening.

Eli had half a dozen in the 1st half alone, make 4 of those catches, and the night goes much differently. As far as miscommunication, you could argue that the overthrow to Parker was Eli's fault - I think Parker ran too shallow a route when the DB forced him from his spot - but the missed throw early to Randle was clearly on Randle. He stopped running. But I guess that's Eli's fault, too.

I would argue that Eli doesn't get enough credit from so-called fans. The best QB in NYG history, you will miss him when he's gone.

In comment 11957342 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957324 drkenneth said: Quote: Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome? brady has had no name or rookie wide receivers, running backs, tight ends and patch work offensive lines for a number of years. same with peyton; both of them have been ridiculously consistent and made their surrounding talent look great. eli was off on a number of his throws last night and you can point your finger at the receivers for miscommunications all you want, but you rarely see that with the top flight QBs the over-rating of eli on this site is ridiculous.

Peyton had no talent to work with in his career? Holy fucking good god. Brady has thrown to welker, moss, grinkowski. A guy like vereen would be Eli's best friend. So would edelman.

You're way out of your league.... step away.

few that Eli has had to play behind.

In comment 11957348 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957320 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 11957311 Les in TO said: Quote: was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect. Then you would agree that luck wasn't particularly good last night as well? Two dropped INTs. Really low passing percentage. Clearly affected by the rush. But you won't hear the talking heads talk about that though, right? Luck had a rough night, but he was able to drive the ball down the field more consistently than eli

Do you think luck had more success driving down because his wrs didn't drop balls and out defenders dropped 2 INTs.

If we catch those INTS lucks night goes from great to pretty shitty. Amazing. Huh?

I'm sure in his mind...
silverfox : 8:26 am : link : reply
...although he'll never admit it publicly...is that he will never get back to the big game with this organization. I think he knows that deep down. His body language is almost unwatchable now...this once 2x SB MVP reduced to just shaking his head and going through the motions is perhaps the hardest thing to watch at this point.


I see it too....We will never know, if Eli was all in on Having McAdoo as OC, and we will never know if he really wants his mechanics changed, after all these years....

He has gone from one of the most accurate long passers, to a short passing game which I don't feel he is really comfortable with.....he has never been know for his accuracy in the short passing game, and also putting touch on short passes....yes there were drops last night, but there were also a lot of high throws that were his fault.....

8 games into the season, I expected this offense to gel better by now....the loss of Richburg, makes this offense take another step backwards, and certainly will not enhance Eli's confidence in his OL.....

In comment 11957374 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957348 Les in TO said: Quote: In comment 11957320 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 11957311 Les in TO said: Quote: was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect. Then you would agree that luck wasn't particularly good last night as well? Two dropped INTs. Really low passing percentage. Clearly affected by the rush. But you won't hear the talking heads talk about that though, right? Luck had a rough night, but he was able to drive the ball down the field more consistently than eli Do you think luck had more success driving down because his wrs didn't drop balls and out defenders dropped 2 INTs. If we catch those INTS lucks night goes from great to pretty shitty. Amazing. Huh?

and if asante samuel holds on to the INT in Super Bowl 42 and kevin williams gets out of the way of the weatherford punt, Eli has Zero Super Bowls.

Luck had a much better touch on his throws, eli was throwing fastballs on certain passes when a well placed offspeed throw would have been more appropriate. some of the drops were his receiver's fault, but he gets some of the blame too.

In comment 11957342 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957324 drkenneth said: Quote: Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome? brady has had no name or rookie wide receivers, running backs, tight ends and patch work offensive lines for a number of years. same with peyton; both of them have been ridiculously consistent and made their surrounding talent look great. eli was off on a number of his throws last night and you can point your finger at the receivers for miscommunications all you want, but you rarely see that with the top flight QBs the over-rating of eli on this site is ridiculous.

Just stop talking.

funny.

.

i love eli and everything he has given the giants over the years. his playoff runs were magical. he is remarkably resilient considering the pounding his body has taken over the years. he is a good quarterback who has some elite skills in his tool box and has ice in his veins.

but he has his limitations both athletically and in his decision making. he's not irreplacable and his value needs to be looked at very carefully.

You can argue that the misfires are Eli's fault, that's fine, but drops are drops. They're on the receivers. That he throws them too hard is bullshit. Just catch the damn ball. These guys are pros.

Quote:

and if asante samuel holds on to the INT in Super Bowl 42 and kevin williams gets out of the way of the weatherford punt, Eli has Zero Super Bowls. Luck had a much better touch on his throws, eli was throwing fastballs on certain passes when a well placed offspeed throw would have been more appropriate. some of the drops were his receiver's fault, but he gets some of the blame too.

Forget holds on. He has to make the catch And then get both feet in. Ironically, people talk about that play but Tyree ran his route shorter which got Eli mad.

But consider this, Eli probably has no confidence. It's the OL or the skill players or a shit show with both. I am sure that's soul crushing playing and being surrounded by that talent. Guys can't run block. Guys can't catch, hold on to the ball when and if caught. They don't run the right routes. I am sure after a while that just crushes you.

It's almost a why do I bother situation or mentality. There is no safety blanket. Every QB has that outlet guy. Romo has Witten and certain QBs have that guy. Mr. Reliable. Steve Smith was that guy for us. Who is that guy now? That guy that says, don't worry ELi, I am where I should be and I will make that catch. No worries. Who is that guy?

So sure Eli isn't perfect, but it's gotta be so hard coming to work when you're surrounded by weak talent.

5 INTs and the hight completion percentage of his career despite throwing to a rookie, a tiki hut maker, and probably the worst #2 in the league.

And we are worried about Eli. Some things never change. I mean its really pathetic that we have to belittle Pyeton's weapons in his career to belittle Eli.

Eli would be in the HOF already if he had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge James, Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas, etc....

In comment 11957320 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said: Quote: was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect. Then you would agree that luck wasn't particularly good last night as well? Two dropped INTs. Really low passing percentage. Clearly affected by the rush. But you won't hear the talking heads talk about that though, right?

Exactly

in the inevitable purge that is coming at the end of the season. I think him and Eli are doing some good things together but are ultimately being undone by talent deficiencies in key spots. I'd like to see them get more time to work together.

You're way, way off on this thread. The idea that Peyton Manning has been surrounded by no-name talent over his career will be one of the most patently false posts on BBI today.

And if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport. Please.

Eli has shown this year he still has it. I like his fit in this offense- I wish we went to the better matchup more often.

At the same time Eli was part of the problem last night. he was not accurate early when it was still a game.

BBI seems to think any ball that hits any point of a finger is a drop.

People have been so stats driven on this site. Now he's got the stats, but it's not translating to wins, and it's still on him. Too funny.

In comment 11957285 silverfox said:

Quote:

...although he'll never admit it publicly...is that he will never get back to the big game with this organization. I think he knows that deep down. His body language is almost unwatchable now...this once 2x SB MVP reduced to just shaking his head and going through the motions is perhaps the hardest thing to watch at this point.

Damn, you know things are going bad when people are analyzing Eli's body language again.

In comment 11957436 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

Eli has shown this year he still has it. I like his fit in this offense- I wish we went to the better matchup more often. At the same time Eli was part of the problem last night. he was not accurate early when it was still a game. BBI seems to think any ball that hits any point of a finger is a drop.

Part of the problem is that our WRs dont make plays. You see the play Hilton make? Not only was it a TD, but it also prevented an INT. Who on our team can do that consistently? Reggie Wayne is catching balls off the dirt. RR not only cant get separation but at the slightest contact he falls off balance and flails his arms on a fade pattern.

ODB seems to have the goods but still has only played 4 games. But in all honesty, how many teams can Randle, Parker, Hillis, Williams, Fells play for and get a lot of snaps? Donnell is ok and is doing better than what I thought.... but we have NO playmakers. Like Anish said, who can Eli just throw the ball too when every one else is cover and say, make a play.

and our RB is horrible.
I agree with all of it.
was just saying I didn't think ELi was sharp when he needed to be early.
If he plays his A game in the first half I think we have 13 points and its a ball game.

it doesn't remove the fact this year is a waste- the play calling a joke, and the talent level poor.

In comment 11957437 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

People have been so stats driven on this site. Now he's got the stats, but it's not translating to wins, and it's still on him. Too funny.

I am rooting for stats. I don't think this team is good. I want ELi to get into the HOF, so in order to do that needs his numbers. Let's be honest we aren't going to win a SB anytime soon with this talent.

I loved garage time. Pad the ever living shit out of his stats. I was mad Williams got a TD. We threw all the way there to have him run. I was pissed. I wanted us to throw for a TD. 3 Tds would have been good.

In comment 11957457 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 11957437 Britt in VA said: Quote: People have been so stats driven on this site. Now he's got the stats, but it's not translating to wins, and it's still on him. Too funny. I am rooting for stats. I don't think this team is good. I want ELi to get into the HOF, so in order to do that needs his numbers. Let's be honest we aren't going to win a SB anytime soon with this talent. I loved garage time. Pad the ever living shit out of his stats. I was mad Williams got a TD. We threw all the way there to have him run. I was pissed. I wanted us to throw for a TD. 3 Tds would have been good.

Agreed.

In comment 11957455 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

and our RB is horrible. I agree with all of it. was just saying I didn't think ELi was sharp when he needed to be early. If he plays his A game in the first half I think we have 13 points and its a ball game. it doesn't remove the fact this year is a waste- the play calling a joke, and the talent level poor.

Oh ok. I agree with you then. He did miss a few throws early.

In comment 11957430 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

in the inevitable purge that is coming at the end of the season. I think him and Eli are doing some good things together but are ultimately being undone by talent deficiencies in key spots. I'd like to see them get more time to work together.

I'm not sold on McAdoo yet. He's done a good job getting Eli's mechanics on track, but he was a QB coach. I understand that he is dealing with a subpar OL and WR crew, but I just don't see the creativity in formations and passing schemes that other teams have.

You have subpar WR's? How about designing some bunch formations or use more motion to help them shed DB's?

These fools can't do the basics like catch the ball or run the right route . Can you imagine if they fuck up running those routes? Is that even a staple in this system? We ran bunch and cluster in Gilbrides system.

I don't think we have the talent to do that. I would love to see 2 TE but we lack those too, lol. So then what? I just think we are very limited and the offensive coaches know this.

I'd love to be in the offensive coaches meeting and hear what they really think. They know what they can do and what they can't do.

Washington game, if I'm not mistaken

I used to think that maybe he was being paid too much. No longer. He's being underpaid to keep showing up with this supporting cast. What an embarrassment for an aging QB talent!

In comment 11957435 Exit 172 said:

Quote:

You're way, way off on this thread. The idea that Peyton Manning has been surrounded by no-name talent over his career will be one of the most patently false posts on BBI today. And if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport. Please.

peyton's had some weak offensive lines during his time in indy and knowshown moreno is not actactly a world beater, but he's been remarkably consistent but he always gets the ball out quickly, accurately and to the right receiver. i can't say the same about eli.

if eli has inexperienced guys around him it's on him as the leader of the offense to put in the extra time to make sure they are all aligned and to put in the extra time with someone else to be that safety blanket.

In comment 11957583 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957435 Exit 172 said: Quote: You're way, way off on this thread. The idea that Peyton Manning has been surrounded by no-name talent over his career will be one of the most patently false posts on BBI today. And if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport. Please. peyton's had some weak offensive lines during his time in indy and knowshown moreno is not actactly a world beater, but he's been remarkably consistent but he always gets the ball out quickly, accurately and to the right receiver. i can't say the same about eli. if eli has inexperienced guys around him it's on him as the leader of the offense to put in the extra time to make sure they are all aligned and to put in the extra time with someone else to be that safety blanket.

LOL, now he is questioning Eli's work ethic as if he is there every day at practice seeing what Eli is doing.

bunch formations, they have no business playing in the NFL. That said, even running a little motion would help, but I saw little of it last night. It looked like the scheme was "just beat your guy". Other than Beckham, we don't have the guys to do it.

In comment 11957426 dep026 said:

Quote:

Eli would be in the HOF already if he had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge James, Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, Emmanuel Sanders, Julius Thomas, etc....

But dep026 I read earlier that Peyton has never had any talent around him? Man I'm so confused....LOL

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said:

Quote:

was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

what game were you watching he had over 5 drops and put the ball where it has to be more than enough times. Does the guy have to catch the ball for the receivers too. Brady Peyton or Luck would have the same results with this talent.

than arguably any top end QB ever. He had a couple weaker OLs in Indy toward the end of his time there and that's pretty much the worse you can say about what he's been handed or chosen to be handed.

This is legitimately one of those times when the best case of action for a poster is to just admit to saying something stupid and move along.

In comment 11957311 Les in TO said:

Quote:

was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. There were loads of problems and Eli was the least of them, but that doesn't mean that he didn't contribute. If everyone else did their jobs, Eli was plenty good enough to win. I love the guy and I'm glad he's our QB. No QB is perfect and that goes for Eli ... there, I said it! But there's no way he could have played well enough to salvage that shit show. There's no supporting cast for an imperfect but very good QB.

In comment 11957342 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957324 drkenneth said: Quote: Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome? brady has had no name or rookie wide receivers, running backs, tight ends and patch work offensive lines for a number of years. same with peyton; both of them have been ridiculously consistent and made their surrounding talent look great. eli was off on a number of his throws last night and you can point your finger at the receivers for miscommunications all you want, but you rarely see that with the top flight QBs the over-rating of eli on this site is ridiculous.

He has an All Pro TE and underrated WR's like Edleman. The OL is also solid.

Pure difference.

And their defense isn't absolute ass.

But carry on.

Just saying.

Eli is not tough enough on his teammates and doesn't lay into them when they consistently fuck up.

Eli
Les in TO : 8:36 am : link : reply
was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent.

whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best.

again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.
If thats the case and I think your spot on with what Eli needs . Then Why the Fuck has ne not been given what he needs ??? When the 2010 Teams O-line was just holdinng together years prior to that I wanted them to rebuild
the O-line . This to me is on the Guy Building this team .
Scouting ect . I don't care who the QB is if He has less
than 3 seconds every play then its about doing your job
with passion and being good enough to do it .
Clean House and start over even if it means moving Eli
I hate the thought I would take a broken Eli over
Winston any day who IMO is a friggen no good .
Its a damn shame that Eli is embarressed week in and week
out and NEVER complains . Makes me sick to see class
act GREAT QB have his prime years wasted .
The Dumbest comment I have heard was "we need to throw down
field more " How many offensive linemen that are legitimate
starters on our Team . Beatty ? Pugh ?
Its starts and ends with Talent .
Linebacker ?
Kick Returner ?
Punter ?
TE ?
3rd Down back ?
Safety ?
How about the Backups ? They play special teams mostly
the lower end of the roster Stinks . They don't block in
the return game no sense putting Beckum back there
and get him Killed as well .
Giants Pride just went down the tubes last night

In comment 11957708 River Mike said:

Quote:

Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. There were loads of problems and Eli was the least of them, but that doesn't mean that he didn't contribute. If everyone else did their jobs, Eli was plenty good enough to win. I love the guy and I'm glad he's our QB. No QB is perfect and that goes for Eli ... there, I said it! But there's no way he could have played well enough to salvage that shit show. There's no supporting cast for an imperfect but very good QB.

That is complete bullshit. He started by saying that Eli was responsible for WR drops, and than went on some factless rant about how Peyton did more with less.

But don't let facts get in the way of your meme.

If Eli only threw it to him six times ( OK maybe he would) But the point being Parker has seven drops because Eli threw it to him seven times. Throwing to Parker was clearly a big part of their game plan, and Parker must have earned it in practice. But once it started failing, Eli could have gone to other targets.

Its not blame, and the Giants still would have lost if Parker caught all seven. Just recognize the team concept and the futility of placing blame.

We're also not wasting Eli's prime. He's already been to the mountaintop. He doesn't deserve anymore. No one does. Shut up and play.

but they are deficient in key spots - notably Randle - has the tools to be a solid #2, but, the inconsistency = a 3 or a 4. Had Cruz been healthy last night, they would have had two viable options.

And, you have to be able to run the ball effectively. They have not done that and Jennings being out is a big part of that.

In comment 11957996 bc4life said:

Quote:

but they are deficient in key spots - notably Randle - has the tools to be a solid #2, but, the inconsistency = a 3 or a 4. Had Cruz been healthy last night, they would have had two viable options. And, you have to be able to run the ball effectively. They have not done that and Jennings being out is a big part of that.

So what you are saying is: There is talent, but not really. You're all over the place, pal. This offense has significant talent issues at: OL, TE, RB, & WR.

In comment 11957953 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957708 River Mike said: Quote: Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. There were loads of problems and Eli was the least of them, but that doesn't mean that he didn't contribute. If everyone else did their jobs, Eli was plenty good enough to win. I love the guy and I'm glad he's our QB. No QB is perfect and that goes for Eli ... there, I said it! But there's no way he could have played well enough to salvage that shit show. There's no supporting cast for an imperfect but very good QB. That is complete bullshit. He started by saying that Eli was responsible for WR drops, and than went on some factless rant about how Peyton did more with less. But don't let facts get in the way of your meme.

Really? Let's see.

Quote:

Eli Les in TO : 8:36 am : link : reply was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

Hmmmm... I guess I'll have to read it a few more times ... or maybe I'm not the one having trouble with facts

been talent deficient?

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop.

other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler.

i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap.

i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Got it, thanks for the info.

of the article is that eli is some once in a team-lifetime QB whose prime years are being burned up on a crap team. i don't buy that we'll never be able to replace him - there are new and hungry QBs coming through the college system every year.

You're either a mental case, or you are just fucking with us.

Eli's not the problem. The problem is the utter garbage outside of Beckham & Donnell around him.

In comment 11958025 drkenneth said:

Quote:

Got it, thanks for the info.

correct, but it's the QB's job to know his receiver's tendencies and adjust accordingly. there are pure concentration drops that are 100% on the receiver, but other times it is timing and where the ball is thrown where the receiver looks bad but the QB shares a portion of the blame.

Have a nice day.

In comment 11957708 River Mike said:

Quote:

Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that.

Please try to read more carefully:

Eli
Les in TO : 8:36 am : link
was part of the problem last night...he was far from perfect.


Les in TO -
Exit 172 : 9:14 am : link
if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport.

In comment 11957407 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

funny.

And here comes the knee jerk Eli defense team.

being the biggest fucktard of all. Everything is back to normal.

regarding talent on offense:

1. Not paying Nicks.
2. Dumping Myers for Donnell (although a year late. This was obvious in preseason last year).
3. Drafting Beckham (HUGE HR)
4. Signing Jennings. He's a very good back.

I think Schwartz was another. Losing Schwartz forced Walton into the lineup and this has hurt. We definitely need another C/G next year. Add some speed at RB to catch passes and a WR.

They are not far off. Giants offense is just a few moves away. Beckham will dominate next season. Add a few more pieces and Eli has everything he needs.

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without :

A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007)

Or

The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Boy I knew you were annoying. But I didnt know you were dumb as fucking shit either.

of stupid.

In comment 11958022 Les in TO said:

Quote:

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop. other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler. i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap. i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Lets break down this gem of a post:

Quote:

other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler.

You sure Eli cant break free of pressure and make big plays? He's never done it before? Did you start becoming a "fan" yesterday?

Quote:

i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap.

I get the sense that after 8 games, he hasnt mastered it either. Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing.

Quote:

but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Wait, so Eli has had some bad games? Well blow me down and call you moronic. No shit he has. Guess what. So has Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Montana, and any other Qb who has played this game. He is 8-3 in the playoffs. Me thinks there has been more good games in the playoffs than bad ones.

Just like there are more shitty posters on this site than good ones.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Show me the QBs who have without those things you dingleberry.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007)

Burress didnt even make the pro bowl as a Giant. So saying he was a top 5 WR in the game is just downright hysterical. And the best RB rotation in football. Brandon Jacobs, a rookie in Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward? Oh JFC.

Or

Quote:

The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Notice Radar left out how Eli had the worst OL and run game in football for this stretch, but he conveniently mentions it for 2007. Dipshit.

the 2007 OL wasn't top five (and didn't play that way in the playoffs either) and Burress only played like an elite WR in GB that run.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

fact: none of these things are facts

you do everything and anything to build that wall in front of him..meaning OL. They've addressed that position very mediocre and not kept addressing it enough to getting it done til right fast. I know there's many other needs and issues that needed to be addressed at other positions and etc, but for this day and age, when you have a durable, proven franchise QB and etc, you needed to protect him first and foremost. The Giants failed very bad on this front and left it get out of hand which is a shame.

In comment 11958136 dep026 said:

Quote:

You sure Eli cant break free of pressure and make big plays? He's never done it before? Did you start becoming a "fan" yesterday? I get the sense that after 8 games, he hasnt mastered it either. Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing. Wait, so Eli has had some bad games? Well blow me down and call you moronic. No shit he has. Guess what. So has Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Montana, and any other Qb who has played this game. He is 8-3 in the playoffs. Me thinks there has been more good games in the playoffs than bad ones.

Eli is not week in week out an elite QB - some weeks he's on fire if everything is working, other weeks he looks awful. He is not going to make plays happen with his legs unless the field is wide open and he doesn't have the same escapability that he did earlier in his career.

Let's have a look at where he ranks among active QBs in win/loss records courtesy of the football database compared to others who have at least 20 starts under their belt since at the end of the day, winning is what counts the most (in this metric, he is above average):

All GamesRegular SeasonPostseason
Player GS W L T Pct
Tom Brady 226 173 53 0 0.765
Russell Wilson 45 33 12 0 0.733
Peyton Manning 271 184 87 0 0.679
Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676
Ben Roethlisberger 165 111 54 0 0.673
Andrew Luck 44 29 15 0 0.659
Aaron Rodgers 104 68 36 0 0.654
Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644
Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608
Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603
Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600
Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595
Drew Brees 205 121 84 0 0.590
Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589
Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583
Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567
Alex Smith 101 55 45 1 0.550
Mark Sanchez 68 37 31 0 0.544
Michael Vick 113 60 52 1 0.535
Rex Grossman 51 27 24 0 0.529
Jay Cutler 114 60 54 0 0.526
Matt Hasselbeck 163 85 78 0 0.521
Matt Moore 25 13 12 0 0.520
Kyle Orton 74 38 36 0 0.514
Matt Schaub 92 47 45 0 0.511
Ryan Tannehill 40 20 20 0 0.500
Tarvaris Jackson 35 17 18 0 0.486
Cam Newton 57 27 29 1 0.482
Shaun Hill 27 13 14 0 0.481
Carson Palmer 144 69 75 0 0.479
Matt Cassel 72 33 39 0 0.458
Derek Anderson 44 19 25 0 0.432
Matthew Stafford 70 30 40 0 0.429
Robert Griffin III 32 13 19 0 0.406
Jason Campbell 79 32 47 0 0.405
Christian Ponder 36 14 21 1 0.403
Josh Freeman 60 24 36 0 0.400
Josh McCown 41 16 25 0 0.390
Sam Bradford 49 18 30 1 0.378
Ryan Fitzpatrick 86 31 54 1 0.366
Chad Henne 53 18 35 0 0.340
Colt McCoy 22 7 15 0 0.318
Blaine Gabbert 27 5 22 0 0.185

Link - ( New Window )

Please stop doing this. It's like measuring pitchers by wins.

Ben Roethlisberger spent the majority of his career with the luxury of top 10 to top 5 defenses helping him out every season.

Russell Wilson was aided by a defense that rivaled the 2000 Ravens in quality and ppg allowed.

Compare QBs all you want, but please stop giving weight to win/loss records.

In comment 11958136 dep026 said:

Quote:

Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing.

Eli was in the same system for 10 years under coughlin/gilbride; he looked at times last year just as lost as he did in some of his 2005 sophmore stinkers.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

I don't think you know what 'fact' means.

In comment 11958326 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11958136 dep026 said: Quote: Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing. Eli was in the same system for 10 years under coughlin/gilbride; he looked at times last year just as lost as he did in some of his 2005 sophmore stinkers.

Les: Last years team was awful. You really think he just doesn't know what to do? Or is it more that there is a talent issue?

are better than Eli.

Fact.

Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676
Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644
Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608
Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603
Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600
Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595
Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589
Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583
Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567

In comment 11958321 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Please stop doing this. It's like measuring pitchers by wins. Ben Roethlisberger spent the majority of his career with the luxury of top 10 to top 5 defenses helping him out every season. Russell Wilson was aided by a defense that rivaled the 2000 Ravens in quality and ppg allowed. Compare QBs all you want, but please stop giving weight to win/loss records.

a QB is a key component of a winning team. yes, wilson and big ben had strong defenses helping them but both of them can do things eli can't as effectively - improvise and make plays when the called play breaks down. we'll see how wilson's numbers turn up at the end of his career. wins and losses is not the be all and end all but it's telling - and based on that and even factoring in some differences in surrounding talent over the years, i think that is a fair place of where eli is in the pecking order.

there are some anomalies to be sure - vince young had the benefit of some strong titans teams and carson palmer was on some brutal bengals teams.

but in the big picture is eli really that great or are some people looking at things through rose colored glasses?

It's fucking silly. The guys won 2 SB MVPs.

Jesus Christ. Where's the Tylenol?

In comment 11958340 drkenneth said:

Quote:

Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676 Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644 Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608 Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603 Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600 Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595 Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589 Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583 Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567

kapernick and foles are early in their careers and flacco, rivers and ryan may end up being on par. eli is better in the clutch than romo, but not necessarily as consistent.

In comment 11958347 drkenneth said:

Quote:

It's fucking silly. The guys won 2 SB MVPs. Jesus Christ. Where's the Tylenol?

as i said, he's been extremely clutch in big games. i only wish he played like that week in and week out and from both the opening kickoff to the closing gun.

Let's move on.

In comment 11958067 Exit 172 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957708 River Mike said: Quote: Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. Please try to read more carefully: Eli Les in TO : 8:36 am : link was part of the problem last night...he was far from perfect. Les in TO - Exit 172 : 9:14 am : link if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport.

This calls for a "Wow, just wow".
"part of the problem" does not equal "was the reason we lost"
When that has to be explained, its time to depart. Bye.

In comment 11957457 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 11957437 Britt in VA said: Quote: People have been so stats driven on this site. Now he's got the stats, but it's not translating to wins, and it's still on him. Too funny. I am rooting for stats. I don't think this team is good. I want ELi to get into the HOF, so in order to do that needs his numbers. Let's be honest we aren't going to win a SB anytime soon with this talent. I loved garage time. Pad the ever living shit out of his stats. I was mad Williams got a TD. We threw all the way there to have him run. I was pissed. I wanted us to throw for a TD. 3 Tds would have been good.

Sadly I feel the same... I want Eli to pad his stats too. When the game was out of hand, and with JR's comments, I was worried Eli would go into the "F*^ck it" mode, and throw a pick or 2.

Unfortunately, if things stay like this, it becomes inevitable... the TD's will drop & the INTs will go up.

In comment 11957470 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957430 Kyle in NY said: Quote: in the inevitable purge that is coming at the end of the season. I think him and Eli are doing some good things together but are ultimately being undone by talent deficiencies in key spots. I'd like to see them get more time to work together. I'm not sold on McAdoo yet. He's done a good job getting Eli's mechanics on track, but he was a QB coach. I understand that he is dealing with a subpar OL and WR crew, but I just don't see the creativity in formations and passing schemes that other teams have. You have subpar WR's? How about designing some bunch formations or use more motion to help them shed DB's?

If there's miss-communication, receivers running wrong routes, wrong depth with the basic offense, you think they can handle new routes and different concepts?!!

I was laughing when Gruden said that last night, thinking is he watching the same game we are? Can he see the mess the WRs are in?!!!

In comment 11957870 SHO'NUFF said:

Quote:

Eli is not tough enough on his teammates and doesn't lay into them when they consistently fuck up.

I think there's some truth to that... And maybe TC has gone a little soft too. The lack of discipline and mental errors is way too much.

There are different ways of leadership, but you see Peyton and Brady get a little animated, and maybe with the state of the offense, it COULD help.

Are we clutching at straws? Maybe... but its gotten this bad

In comment 11958022 Les in TO said:

Quote:

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop. other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler. i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap. i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

What QB wont have accuracy issues when he's getting hit consistently? It effects them even when there is no pressure on a particular play. The clock in his head goes off. Happens to EVERY QB, even the great ones. A few hits from Ayers last night, and Luck didnt look that great.

As far as his mobility, whats new? Everybody knows he's a pure pocket passer. But remember in 2011 how good he was moving in the pocket, side-stepping pressure? The problem is he cant do it now because there's nowhere to side step to... pressure is coming from the edges and up the middle.

Bottom line, I think most would agree Eli isnt at Brady's, Peyton's, Rodgers, Brees' level, but IMO give him a decent OL and a functioning WRs group and Giants are contenders with him at QB. And if you agree with that, then you have to agree he's not the problem.

In comment 11958121 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11958114 chris r said: Quote: Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011) Boy I knew you were annoying. But I didnt know you were dumb as fucking shit either.

You haven't been paying much attention then, dep.

In comment 11958731 GloryDayz said:

Quote:

but IMO give him a decent OL and a functioning WRs group and Giants are contenders with him at QB.

good post, but on this point, you could say the same thing about joe flacco, matt ryan, and many other above-average qbs. i think many people here still think eli is as good as brady, peyton, rogers, brees.

I think all anyone is looking for is not crucify Eli for every incompletion. People also act like Peyton and Brady have no talent around them, which is bullshit.

I thought it would be hard pressed to find a poster as clueless as JOMO and Bossman.... but Les in TO has put up an award winning performance. Out of nowhere as the longest shot of the board as the least informed BBI poster of 2014.

Well done Les. You really earned it in this thread.

In comment 11958595 River Mike said:

Quote:

In comment 11958067 Exit 172 said: Quote: In comment 11957708 River Mike said: Quote: Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. Please try to read more carefully: Eli Les in TO : 8:36 am : link was part of the problem last night...he was far from perfect. Les in TO - Exit 172 : 9:14 am : link if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport. This calls for a "Wow, just wow". "part of the problem" does not equal "was the reason we lost" When that has to be explained, its time to depart. Bye.

So then why did you change my words?

In comment 11959085 dep026 said:

Quote:

I thought it would be hard pressed to find a poster as clueless as JOMO and Bossman.... but Les in TO has put up an award winning performance. Out of nowhere as the longest shot of the board as the least informed BBI poster of 2014. Well done Les. You really earned it in this thread.

And you are a homer Eli apologist of epic proportions

And an ahole to boot

At least glorydayz can debate logically and reasonably

In comment 11958925 drkenneth said:

Quote:

I think all anyone is looking for is not crucify Eli for every incompletion. People also act like Peyton and Brady have no talent around them, which is bullshit.

I'm not crucifying him for every incompletion

I said he is PART of the problem not THE problem

Can any poster have an opinion other than Eli walks on water ...without you going into personal vitrolics?

Just answer the question.

For i have never seen any thread on Eli that you allowed room or space for a range of opinion. Well i did. Before i remember seeing dep as a poster name.


Dont assume a question of your personal dimunition of the site means i am not an Eli advocate. I am just curious if you are aware of your lack of contribution on this topic to the site at large?

In comment 11959177 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Can any poster have an opinion other than Eli walks on water ...without you going into personal vitrolics? Just answer the question. For i have never seen any thread on Eli that you allowed room or space for a range of opinion. Well i did. Before i remember seeing dep as a poster name. I'm glad to see this isn't dep's first Eli-rage. I won't take it personally then especially as I don't know who bossman and Jomo are Dont assume a question of your personal dimunition of the site means i am not an Eli advocate. I am just curious if you are aware of your lack of contribution on this topic to the site at large?

In comment 11959177 Bill2 said:

Quote:

Can any poster have an opinion other than Eli walks on water ...without you going into personal vitrolics? Just answer the question. For i have never seen any thread on Eli that you allowed room or space for a range of opinion. Well i did. Before i remember seeing dep as a poster name. Dont assume a question of your personal dimunition of the site means i am not an Eli advocate. I am just curious if you are aware of your lack of contribution on this topic to the site at large?

I am going to be honest with you. Your posts are very few and far between and I guess you are a respected poster, which I literally give two shits about. You are by far the biggest asshole I ever saw on this site. I am just being honest. Yo ucan come across and attack me and call me out and I literally could give a flying rats ass. I dont care for your opinion, respect, and literally dont want to hear it. So if you want an answer to your asinine question.... I will call Les a moron as soon as he said Peyton Manning had no talent to work with in hsi career. And say Eli hd as many bad playoff games as good ones. And I am just telling you it straight as it is.

I can go back and pat myself on the back and tell you everything I have nailed the last two years about Eli and the team, but I would be going into your self-absorbed zone that I dont want to visit. I am pretty sure when it comes to the QB position, a conversation with you will go as far as about a minute because if you speak as clearly as you write, it would be too nauseating.

Since here's some "friendly" advice. Dont bother me. I think your contribution to this site is worthless and meaningless. All high and mighty people bore me. So please dont address me or even respond, because Ill probably yawn throughout the whole thing.

Have a nice day.

.

In comment 11957342 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11957324 drkenneth said: Quote: Luck, Peyton, & Brady overcome? brady has had no name or rookie wide receivers, running backs, tight ends and patch work offensive lines for a number of years. same with peyton; both of them have been ridiculously consistent and made their surrounding talent look great. eli was off on a number of his throws last night and you can point your finger at the receivers for miscommunications all you want, but you rarely see that with the top flight QBs the over-rating of eli on this site is ridiculous.

Quote:

whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best.

I suggest you read these two posts bill2 before ever acknowledging me again. Thank you.

The question was not about you as a person. Nor about me. The question was are you AWARE you attack posters personaly...and seek out doing so for posting different opinions than you have about Eli?

Your destructive and personally abusive behavior...which many many others have pointed out is the only focus.

Prove you are not below average as a person, thinker, football analyst and poster by answering the question...or changing the destruction of discussion on a discussion site.

You...you... are the subject baby girl.

And in case you dont know it...you cant win on this topic...only look degrees of worse. So take a deep breadth. I suspect you cant find a way without entertaining us

Luck is probably the best QB in all of football. That dude is so good it's scary. Wasn't even great last night and still hung 40. I'd kill to have him for the next 10-15 years.

In comment 11959221 djm said:

Quote:

Luck is probably the best QB in all of football. That dude is so good it's scary. Wasn't even great last night and still hung 40. I'd kill to have him for the next 10-15 years.

I dont think the argument of who is better. I think Luck is clearly better. Probably in the 4 range right now behind Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers.

I think the argument is how Les belittles Eli by buidling up other QBs by making up straight up nonsense. Saying Eli isnt smart, doesnt have leadership, doesnt play with fire. Saying Eli and Brady never played with talent. I also believe he said Eli has as many bad playoff games as he does good ones.

Despite what bill said.... I have no problem discussing Eli with people as I do often on this site. But when people are straight ignorant or trolling to get their voice heard.... it gets boring. I mean after watching last night's game.... isnt it sad that the player we are still talking about the most is Eli? My god, like last year, he is the least of our worries.

So what? A guy had an opinion on a website. Its football so there are tons of discussions and too many variables to make clear clean comparisons.

Its not those two posts or this thread...its tons of posters and threads about Eli. What are you going to do when he retires?

Lifes short. I am asking why the topic is so personal and important to you?

I dont actually care....but you might

Actually i liked the post at 754. Thats pretty reasonable

Its a post i agree with

In comment 11959227 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11959221 djm said: Quote: Luck is probably the best QB in all of football. That dude is so good it's scary. Wasn't even great last night and still hung 40. I'd kill to have him for the next 10-15 years. I dont think the argument of who is better. I think Luck is clearly better. Probably in the 4 range right now behind Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers. I think the argument is how Les belittles Eli by buidling up other QBs by making up straight up nonsense. Saying Eli isnt smart, doesnt have leadership, doesnt play with fire. Saying Eli and Brady never played with talent. I also believe he said Eli has as many bad playoff games as he does good ones. Despite what bill said.... I have no problem discussing Eli with people as I do often on this site. But when people are straight ignorant or trolling to get their voice heard.... it gets boring. I mean after watching last night's game.... isnt it sad that the player we are still talking about the most is Eli? My god, like last year, he is the least of our worries.

you have some anger management issues

My point is that life will go on after Eli retires and he's not irreplaceable unlike the truly elite QBs. The article Anish posted insinuated that he is elite and it is a shame that he is stuck on such a crappy team during his prime years. He is an above average QB who can be clutch with the game on the line but he's inconsistent on top of the playoff embarrassments there was also the Green Bay loss in 2010 the Matt Moore debacle at the last Giants stadium game and the Atlanta and Baltimore comical performances in 2012 in must win situations

you have an outstanding point.

I mean it took how many years for the elite Qbs from Indy and GB of Manning/Favre to be replaced.

Its so sad how you mention all the shit games Eli had yet nary a word about all the epic playoff failures Peyton has. The sad thing is that you actually think you are right.

I think Eli is a terrific franchise quarterback with a lot left in the tank.

Those are very hard to replace. Very hard. GM and coach graveyards are littered with that fact.

Saying he is not Peyton or Brady is comparing him to possibly the two greatest Qbs in one hundred years of football.

Its like picking on Derrick Brooks because he was not Lt. Or walter payton because he was not as fast as Jim Brown. Once you get to some lofty level...its time to appreciate more than dwell on the relatively micro shortcomings.

that all said, i do not yet know if a lot in a WCO plays to Eli's strengths and makes his short throw precision glare more than needed.

I half suspect Eli is being asked to play in a easier offense if you are year 2 of a 4 year OL rebuild. Its not quite "fair"

Sort of like Dimaggio in Yankee stadium ( they did not call his power alleys Death Valley in the old Stadium for nothing) and Ted Williams having to hit Yawkee instead of the left porch at 290 feet in Yankee Stadium. Both played in places and times which did not allow their highest and best strength to show.

I think that may be what we look back and say when Eli hangs them up.

In comment 11959269 dep026 said:

Quote:

you have an outstanding point. I mean it took how many years for the elite Qbs from Indy and GB of Manning/Favre to be replaced. Its so sad how you mention all the shit games Eli had yet nary a word about all the epic playoff failures Peyton has. The sad thing is that you actually think you are right.

Peyton has been in the playoffs almost every year since he's been in the NFL

Eli has not led the Giants to the playoffs in 4 of the past 5 years tracking 5 of the last 6 based on this year. Eli may be the better QB in the clutch but Peyton gets to the clutch far more often

Its only up to Eli to lead them into the playoffs. But you're right Peyton has zero talent to work with and he carried them to the playoffs every year.

And why are you comparing Eli to Peyton. We all know that Eli isnt as good as him or Brady. Neither are 99.9% of the QBs whoever played in this league. You keep hammering this point as if its a knock on Eli.

And guess what. It took the Colts all of ONE year to replace Peyton. Maybe he isnt as elite as we all think accoridng to you?

In comment 11959279 Bill2 said:

Quote:

I think Eli is a terrific franchise quarterback with a lot left in the tank. Those are very hard to replace. Very hard. GM and coach graveyards are littered with that fact. Saying he is not Peyton or Brady is comparing him to possibly the two greatest Qbs in one hundred years of football. Its like picking on Derrick Brooks because he was not Lt. Or walter payton because he was not as fast as Jim Brown. Once you get to some lofty level...its time to appreciate more than dwell on the relatively micro shortcomings. that all said, i do not yet know if a lot in a WCO plays to Eli's strengths and makes his short throw precision glare more than needed. I half suspect Eli is being asked to play in a easier offense if you are year 2 of a 4 year OL rebuild. Its not quite "fair" Sort of like Dimaggio in Yankee stadium ( they did not call his power alleys Death Valley in the old Stadium for nothing) and Ted Williams having to hit Yawkee instead of the left porch at 290 feet in Yankee Stadium. Both played in places and times which did not allow their highest and best strength to show. I think that may be what we look back and say when Eli hangs them up.

See dep that is a class post from a class guy You should take notes

I respectfullydisagree with terrific and would replace it with very good with propensity for terrific moments But I respect the opinion and reasons and it was done in a logical and respectful tone not sarcastic and bitter

In comment 11959294 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11959279 Bill2 said: Quote: I think Eli is a terrific franchise quarterback with a lot left in the tank. Those are very hard to replace. Very hard. GM and coach graveyards are littered with that fact. Saying he is not Peyton or Brady is comparing him to possibly the two greatest Qbs in one hundred years of football. Its like picking on Derrick Brooks because he was not Lt. Or walter payton because he was not as fast as Jim Brown. Once you get to some lofty level...its time to appreciate more than dwell on the relatively micro shortcomings. that all said, i do not yet know if a lot in a WCO plays to Eli's strengths and makes his short throw precision glare more than needed. I half suspect Eli is being asked to play in a easier offense if you are year 2 of a 4 year OL rebuild. Its not quite "fair" Sort of like Dimaggio in Yankee stadium ( they did not call his power alleys Death Valley in the old Stadium for nothing) and Ted Williams having to hit Yawkee instead of the left porch at 290 feet in Yankee Stadium. Both played in places and times which did not allow their highest and best strength to show. I think that may be what we look back and say when Eli hangs them up. See dep that is a class post from a class guy You should take notes I respectfullydisagree with terrific and would replace it with very good with propensity for terrific moments But I respect the opinion and reasons and it was done in a logical and respectful tone not sarcastic and bitter

Again, if I gave a rats ass what people thought of me maybe I would respect your asinine and ridiculous opinions. But since I dont. Ill just be me and be quite happy.

But if you wanna go ask him out on a date now, you can fill us on the details later.

In comment 11959292 dep026 said:

Quote:

Its only up to Eli to lead them into the playoffs. But you're right Peyton has zero talent to work with and he carried them to the playoffs every year. And why are you comparing Eli to Peyton. We all know that Eli isnt as good as him or Brady. Neither are 99.9% of the QBs whoever played in this league. You keep hammering this point as if its a knock on Eli. And guess what. It took the Colts all of ONE year to replace Peyton. Maybe he isnt as elite as we all think accoridng to you?

QB is the most important position on the team by far. A great QB can cover up deficiencies in line or skill position talent so yeah his lack of playoff appearances is partially on him

I keep comparing him to Peyton because you keep on making the points in your reply

The Colts lucked out no pun intended. Favre Rogers and Montsna Young are the only times I can recall such a transition of great QBs

This time in Giants history and perhaps the WCO may not a showcase for what Eli does naturally very well.

Imho...one of the things Eli does at an elite level....a Montana Brady level is bring calm presence and confidence to his teammates in tough tight important games. Witness his performance against SF for the NFC championship. To your point Les....regardless of wether we disagree that he is a terrific franchise QB or a very good one...i think we agree that his top moments are as elite as any over the last decade.

In comment 11959303 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11959294 Les in TO said: Quote: In comment 11959279 Bill2 said: Quote: I think Eli is a terrific franchise quarterback with a lot left in the tank. Those are very hard to replace. Very hard. GM and coach graveyards are littered with that fact. Saying he is not Peyton or Brady is comparing him to possibly the two greatest Qbs in one hundred years of football. Its like picking on Derrick Brooks because he was not Lt. Or walter payton because he was not as fast as Jim Brown. Once you get to some lofty level...its time to appreciate more than dwell on the relatively micro shortcomings. that all said, i do not yet know if a lot in a WCO plays to Eli's strengths and makes his short throw precision glare more than needed. I half suspect Eli is being asked to play in a easier offense if you are year 2 of a 4 year OL rebuild. Its not quite "fair" Sort of like Dimaggio in Yankee stadium ( they did not call his power alleys Death Valley in the old Stadium for nothing) and Ted Williams having to hit Yawkee instead of the left porch at 290 feet in Yankee Stadium. Both played in places and times which did not allow their highest and best strength to show. I think that may be what we look back and say when Eli hangs them up. See dep that is a class post from a class guy You should take notes I respectfullydisagree with terrific and would replace it with very good with propensity for terrific moments But I respect the opinion and reasons and it was done in a logical and respectful tone not sarcastic and bitter Again, if I gave a rats ass what people thought of me maybe I would respect your asinine and ridiculous opinions. But since I dont. Ill just be me and be quite happy. But if you wanna go ask him out on a date now, you can fill us on the details later.

If you are happy being an angry sarcastic jerk then all the power to you but I suspect you are not truly happy at all based on the rage in your posts. I'm done wasting any precious further time with you

In comment 11959305 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11959292 dep026 said: Quote: Its only up to Eli to lead them into the playoffs. But you're right Peyton has zero talent to work with and he carried them to the playoffs every year. And why are you comparing Eli to Peyton. We all know that Eli isnt as good as him or Brady. Neither are 99.9% of the QBs whoever played in this league. You keep hammering this point as if its a knock on Eli. And guess what. It took the Colts all of ONE year to replace Peyton. Maybe he isnt as elite as we all think accoridng to you? QB is the most important position on the team by far. A great QB can cover up deficiencies in line or skill position talent so yeah his lack of playoff appearances is partially on him I keep comparing him to Peyton because you keep on making the points in your reply The Colts lucked out no pun intended. Favre Rogers and Montsna Young are the only times I can recall such a transition of great QBs

Read your first point of the thread. You brought up Brady ans Peyton won with no talent for absolutely no reason. I never meant someone who is so obviously wrong, and just wont admit it.

And I just want you to realize this.

In 2011, we had the worst OLine, rushing attack, and the 27 ranked defense in the NFL. How did we do that year. Go do some research, then go to bed, and bow out from thsi thread. You are out of your league.

In comment 11959314 Bill2 said:

Quote:

This time in Giants history and perhaps the WCO may not a showcase for what Eli does naturally very well. Imho...one of the things Eli does at an elite level....a Montana Brady level is bring calm presence and confidence to his teammates in tough tight important games. Witness his performance against SF for the NFC championship. To your point Les....regardless of wether we disagree that he is a terrific franchise QB or a very good one...i think we agree that his top moments are as elite as any over the last decade.

Agree on that

quite a happy person thank you. I have a beautiful wife, a 4 month old daughter, work is great, I started up coaching. I couldnt be better. But thanks for asking.