Eli's prime time goes down the drain - Article

But carry on.

Just saying.

Eli is not tough enough on his teammates and doesn't lay into them when they consistently fuck up.

Eli
Les in TO : 8:36 am : link : reply
was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent.

whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best.

again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.
If thats the case and I think your spot on with what Eli needs . Then Why the Fuck has ne not been given what he needs ??? When the 2010 Teams O-line was just holdinng together years prior to that I wanted them to rebuild
the O-line . This to me is on the Guy Building this team .
Scouting ect . I don't care who the QB is if He has less
than 3 seconds every play then its about doing your job
with passion and being good enough to do it .
Clean House and start over even if it means moving Eli
I hate the thought I would take a broken Eli over
Winston any day who IMO is a friggen no good .
Its a damn shame that Eli is embarressed week in and week
out and NEVER complains . Makes me sick to see class
act GREAT QB have his prime years wasted .
The Dumbest comment I have heard was "we need to throw down
field more " How many offensive linemen that are legitimate
starters on our Team . Beatty ? Pugh ?
Its starts and ends with Talent .
Linebacker ?
Kick Returner ?
Punter ?
TE ?
3rd Down back ?
Safety ?
How about the Backups ? They play special teams mostly
the lower end of the roster Stinks . They don't block in
the return game no sense putting Beckum back there
and get him Killed as well .
Giants Pride just went down the tubes last night

In comment 11957708 River Mike said:

Quote:

Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. There were loads of problems and Eli was the least of them, but that doesn't mean that he didn't contribute. If everyone else did their jobs, Eli was plenty good enough to win. I love the guy and I'm glad he's our QB. No QB is perfect and that goes for Eli ... there, I said it! But there's no way he could have played well enough to salvage that shit show. There's no supporting cast for an imperfect but very good QB.

That is complete bullshit. He started by saying that Eli was responsible for WR drops, and than went on some factless rant about how Peyton did more with less.

But don't let facts get in the way of your meme.

If Eli only threw it to him six times ( OK maybe he would) But the point being Parker has seven drops because Eli threw it to him seven times. Throwing to Parker was clearly a big part of their game plan, and Parker must have earned it in practice. But once it started failing, Eli could have gone to other targets.

Its not blame, and the Giants still would have lost if Parker caught all seven. Just recognize the team concept and the futility of placing blame.

We're also not wasting Eli's prime. He's already been to the mountaintop. He doesn't deserve anymore. No one does. Shut up and play.

but they are deficient in key spots - notably Randle - has the tools to be a solid #2, but, the inconsistency = a 3 or a 4. Had Cruz been healthy last night, they would have had two viable options.

And, you have to be able to run the ball effectively. They have not done that and Jennings being out is a big part of that.

In comment 11957996 bc4life said:

Quote:

but they are deficient in key spots - notably Randle - has the tools to be a solid #2, but, the inconsistency = a 3 or a 4. Had Cruz been healthy last night, they would have had two viable options. And, you have to be able to run the ball effectively. They have not done that and Jennings being out is a big part of that.

So what you are saying is: There is talent, but not really. You're all over the place, pal. This offense has significant talent issues at: OL, TE, RB, & WR.

In comment 11957953 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957708 River Mike said: Quote: Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. There were loads of problems and Eli was the least of them, but that doesn't mean that he didn't contribute. If everyone else did their jobs, Eli was plenty good enough to win. I love the guy and I'm glad he's our QB. No QB is perfect and that goes for Eli ... there, I said it! But there's no way he could have played well enough to salvage that shit show. There's no supporting cast for an imperfect but very good QB. That is complete bullshit. He started by saying that Eli was responsible for WR drops, and than went on some factless rant about how Peyton did more with less. But don't let facts get in the way of your meme.

Really? Let's see.

Quote:

Eli Les in TO : 8:36 am : link : reply was part of the problem last night. his accuracy was inconsistent. whereas elite quarterbacks like peyton brady and luck can overcome talent deficinecies surrounding them with their smarts, leadership and athleticism respectively, eli needs a solid running game and pass protection to be at his best. again - he was not helped by all the drops and lack of running game, but he was far from perfect.

Hmmmm... I guess I'll have to read it a few more times ... or maybe I'm not the one having trouble with facts

been talent deficient?

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop.

other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler.

i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap.

i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Got it, thanks for the info.

of the article is that eli is some once in a team-lifetime QB whose prime years are being burned up on a crap team. i don't buy that we'll never be able to replace him - there are new and hungry QBs coming through the college system every year.

You're either a mental case, or you are just fucking with us.

Eli's not the problem. The problem is the utter garbage outside of Beckham & Donnell around him.

In comment 11958025 drkenneth said:

Quote:

Got it, thanks for the info.

correct, but it's the QB's job to know his receiver's tendencies and adjust accordingly. there are pure concentration drops that are 100% on the receiver, but other times it is timing and where the ball is thrown where the receiver looks bad but the QB shares a portion of the blame.

Have a nice day.

In comment 11957708 River Mike said:

Quote:

Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that.

Please try to read more carefully:

Eli
Les in TO : 8:36 am : link
was part of the problem last night...he was far from perfect.


Les in TO -
Exit 172 : 9:14 am : link
if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport.

In comment 11957407 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

funny.

And here comes the knee jerk Eli defense team.

being the biggest fucktard of all. Everything is back to normal.

regarding talent on offense:

1. Not paying Nicks.
2. Dumping Myers for Donnell (although a year late. This was obvious in preseason last year).
3. Drafting Beckham (HUGE HR)
4. Signing Jennings. He's a very good back.

I think Schwartz was another. Losing Schwartz forced Walton into the lineup and this has hurt. We definitely need another C/G next year. Add some speed at RB to catch passes and a WR.

They are not far off. Giants offense is just a few moves away. Beckham will dominate next season. Add a few more pieces and Eli has everything he needs.

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without :

A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007)

Or

The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Boy I knew you were annoying. But I didnt know you were dumb as fucking shit either.

of stupid.

In comment 11958022 Les in TO said:

Quote:

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop. other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler. i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap. i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Lets break down this gem of a post:

Quote:

other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler.

You sure Eli cant break free of pressure and make big plays? He's never done it before? Did you start becoming a "fan" yesterday?

Quote:

i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap.

I get the sense that after 8 games, he hasnt mastered it either. Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing.

Quote:

but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

Wait, so Eli has had some bad games? Well blow me down and call you moronic. No shit he has. Guess what. So has Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Montana, and any other Qb who has played this game. He is 8-3 in the playoffs. Me thinks there has been more good games in the playoffs than bad ones.

Just like there are more shitty posters on this site than good ones.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Show me the QBs who have without those things you dingleberry.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007)

Burress didnt even make the pro bowl as a Giant. So saying he was a top 5 WR in the game is just downright hysterical. And the best RB rotation in football. Brandon Jacobs, a rookie in Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward? Oh JFC.

Or

Quote:

The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

Notice Radar left out how Eli had the worst OL and run game in football for this stretch, but he conveniently mentions it for 2007. Dipshit.

the 2007 OL wasn't top five (and didn't play that way in the playoffs either) and Burress only played like an elite WR in GB that run.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

fact: none of these things are facts

you do everything and anything to build that wall in front of him..meaning OL. They've addressed that position very mediocre and not kept addressing it enough to getting it done til right fast. I know there's many other needs and issues that needed to be addressed at other positions and etc, but for this day and age, when you have a durable, proven franchise QB and etc, you needed to protect him first and foremost. The Giants failed very bad on this front and left it get out of hand which is a shame.

In comment 11958136 dep026 said:

Quote:

You sure Eli cant break free of pressure and make big plays? He's never done it before? Did you start becoming a "fan" yesterday? I get the sense that after 8 games, he hasnt mastered it either. Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing. Wait, so Eli has had some bad games? Well blow me down and call you moronic. No shit he has. Guess what. So has Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Montana, and any other Qb who has played this game. He is 8-3 in the playoffs. Me thinks there has been more good games in the playoffs than bad ones.

Eli is not week in week out an elite QB - some weeks he's on fire if everything is working, other weeks he looks awful. He is not going to make plays happen with his legs unless the field is wide open and he doesn't have the same escapability that he did earlier in his career.

Let's have a look at where he ranks among active QBs in win/loss records courtesy of the football database compared to others who have at least 20 starts under their belt since at the end of the day, winning is what counts the most (in this metric, he is above average):

All GamesRegular SeasonPostseason
Player GS W L T Pct
Tom Brady 226 173 53 0 0.765
Russell Wilson 45 33 12 0 0.733
Peyton Manning 271 184 87 0 0.679
Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676
Ben Roethlisberger 165 111 54 0 0.673
Andrew Luck 44 29 15 0 0.659
Aaron Rodgers 104 68 36 0 0.654
Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644
Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608
Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603
Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600
Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595
Drew Brees 205 121 84 0 0.590
Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589
Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583
Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567
Alex Smith 101 55 45 1 0.550
Mark Sanchez 68 37 31 0 0.544
Michael Vick 113 60 52 1 0.535
Rex Grossman 51 27 24 0 0.529
Jay Cutler 114 60 54 0 0.526
Matt Hasselbeck 163 85 78 0 0.521
Matt Moore 25 13 12 0 0.520
Kyle Orton 74 38 36 0 0.514
Matt Schaub 92 47 45 0 0.511
Ryan Tannehill 40 20 20 0 0.500
Tarvaris Jackson 35 17 18 0 0.486
Cam Newton 57 27 29 1 0.482
Shaun Hill 27 13 14 0 0.481
Carson Palmer 144 69 75 0 0.479
Matt Cassel 72 33 39 0 0.458
Derek Anderson 44 19 25 0 0.432
Matthew Stafford 70 30 40 0 0.429
Robert Griffin III 32 13 19 0 0.406
Jason Campbell 79 32 47 0 0.405
Christian Ponder 36 14 21 1 0.403
Josh Freeman 60 24 36 0 0.400
Josh McCown 41 16 25 0 0.390
Sam Bradford 49 18 30 1 0.378
Ryan Fitzpatrick 86 31 54 1 0.366
Chad Henne 53 18 35 0 0.340
Colt McCoy 22 7 15 0 0.318
Blaine Gabbert 27 5 22 0 0.185

Link - ( New Window )

Please stop doing this. It's like measuring pitchers by wins.

Ben Roethlisberger spent the majority of his career with the luxury of top 10 to top 5 defenses helping him out every season.

Russell Wilson was aided by a defense that rivaled the 2000 Ravens in quality and ppg allowed.

Compare QBs all you want, but please stop giving weight to win/loss records.

In comment 11958136 dep026 said:

Quote:

Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing.

Eli was in the same system for 10 years under coughlin/gilbride; he looked at times last year just as lost as he did in some of his 2005 sophmore stinkers.

In comment 11958114 chris r said:

Quote:

Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011)

I don't think you know what 'fact' means.

In comment 11958326 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 11958136 dep026 said: Quote: Brady has been in the same system for over 10 years now. Good analogy. Really hit the nail on the head with that insight. And can you describe what a deer in the headlights look means? Are you saying Eli needs to play with more fire. He has had that look since his rookie year. It means absolutely fucking nothing. Eli was in the same system for 10 years under coughlin/gilbride; he looked at times last year just as lost as he did in some of his 2005 sophmore stinkers.

Les: Last years team was awful. You really think he just doesn't know what to do? Or is it more that there is a talent issue?

are better than Eli.

Fact.

Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676
Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644
Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608
Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603
Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600
Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595
Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589
Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583
Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567

In comment 11958321 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Please stop doing this. It's like measuring pitchers by wins. Ben Roethlisberger spent the majority of his career with the luxury of top 10 to top 5 defenses helping him out every season. Russell Wilson was aided by a defense that rivaled the 2000 Ravens in quality and ppg allowed. Compare QBs all you want, but please stop giving weight to win/loss records.

a QB is a key component of a winning team. yes, wilson and big ben had strong defenses helping them but both of them can do things eli can't as effectively - improvise and make plays when the called play breaks down. we'll see how wilson's numbers turn up at the end of his career. wins and losses is not the be all and end all but it's telling - and based on that and even factoring in some differences in surrounding talent over the years, i think that is a fair place of where eli is in the pecking order.

there are some anomalies to be sure - vince young had the benefit of some strong titans teams and carson palmer was on some brutal bengals teams.

but in the big picture is eli really that great or are some people looking at things through rose colored glasses?

It's fucking silly. The guys won 2 SB MVPs.

Jesus Christ. Where's the Tylenol?

In comment 11958340 drkenneth said:

Quote:

Colin Kaepernick 37 25 12 0 0.676 Joe Flacco 118 76 42 0 0.644 Vince Young 51 31 20 0 0.608 Philip Rivers 146 88 58 0 0.603 Nick Foles 25 15 10 0 0.600 Andy Dalton 58 34 23 1 0.595 Matt Ryan 107 63 44 0 0.589 Tony Romo 120 70 50 0 0.583 Eli Manning 171 97 74 0 0.567

kapernick and foles are early in their careers and flacco, rivers and ryan may end up being on par. eli is better in the clutch than romo, but not necessarily as consistent.

In comment 11958347 drkenneth said:

Quote:

It's fucking silly. The guys won 2 SB MVPs. Jesus Christ. Where's the Tylenol?

as i said, he's been extremely clutch in big games. i only wish he played like that week in and week out and from both the opening kickoff to the closing gun.

Let's move on.

In comment 11958067 Exit 172 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957708 River Mike said: Quote: Don't you dare to criticize Eli! Instead of owning up to the fact that Eli made his share of mistakes, posters will lambaste you for things you didn't say e.g. "If you think Eli was the reason we lost, yada, yada, yada" even though you never said that. Please try to read more carefully: Eli Les in TO : 8:36 am : link was part of the problem last night...he was far from perfect. Les in TO - Exit 172 : 9:14 am : link if you think Eli not being perfect was part of the problem last night, just pick another sport.

This calls for a "Wow, just wow".
"part of the problem" does not equal "was the reason we lost"
When that has to be explained, its time to depart. Bye.

In comment 11957457 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 11957437 Britt in VA said: Quote: People have been so stats driven on this site. Now he's got the stats, but it's not translating to wins, and it's still on him. Too funny. I am rooting for stats. I don't think this team is good. I want ELi to get into the HOF, so in order to do that needs his numbers. Let's be honest we aren't going to win a SB anytime soon with this talent. I loved garage time. Pad the ever living shit out of his stats. I was mad Williams got a TD. We threw all the way there to have him run. I was pissed. I wanted us to throw for a TD. 3 Tds would have been good.

Sadly I feel the same... I want Eli to pad his stats too. When the game was out of hand, and with JR's comments, I was worried Eli would go into the "F*^ck it" mode, and throw a pick or 2.

Unfortunately, if things stay like this, it becomes inevitable... the TD's will drop & the INTs will go up.

In comment 11957470 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 11957430 Kyle in NY said: Quote: in the inevitable purge that is coming at the end of the season. I think him and Eli are doing some good things together but are ultimately being undone by talent deficiencies in key spots. I'd like to see them get more time to work together. I'm not sold on McAdoo yet. He's done a good job getting Eli's mechanics on track, but he was a QB coach. I understand that he is dealing with a subpar OL and WR crew, but I just don't see the creativity in formations and passing schemes that other teams have. You have subpar WR's? How about designing some bunch formations or use more motion to help them shed DB's?

If there's miss-communication, receivers running wrong routes, wrong depth with the basic offense, you think they can handle new routes and different concepts?!!

I was laughing when Gruden said that last night, thinking is he watching the same game we are? Can he see the mess the WRs are in?!!!

In comment 11957870 SHO'NUFF said:

Quote:

Eli is not tough enough on his teammates and doesn't lay into them when they consistently fuck up.

I think there's some truth to that... And maybe TC has gone a little soft too. The lack of discipline and mental errors is way too much.

There are different ways of leadership, but you see Peyton and Brady get a little animated, and maybe with the state of the offense, it COULD help.

Are we clutching at straws? Maybe... but its gotten this bad

In comment 11958022 Les in TO said:

Quote:

of the drops are clearly the receiver's fault. definitely not all on eli. vs dallas, eli played very well, it is not his fault donnell fumbled twice and the defense could not get a third down stop. other times, eli's velocity and accuracy, especially on short throws, put the primary fault of the incompletions on him. he also cannot escape pressure or create plays with his legs, which is an underappreciated skill set from giants fans as we haven't had a mobile QB since hostettler. i just get the sense watching him that he doesn't have a mastery of the offense, unlike watching brady and peyton calmly and firmly command their offensive units. eli is in his 11th season and he is still getting called for delay of game penalties and having a deer in headlights look from time to time before the snap. i have no axe to grind with eli. he's a great guy, tough resilient, off the field/community work, etc. will always love him for his super bowl runs. but if you look at his total body of work, he is not someone who you can say is unbeliveably and consistently special year in year out, game in game out or even quarter in, quarter out. for every 2007 and 2011 there has been a 2006 or 2013. for every brilliant second half vs tampa in 2012, there was a first half vs. detroit or indy last night; for every lambeau 2007 performance there was a 2005 carolina playoff performance. he is a streaky and inconsistent QB with moments of brilliance but moments of below average play too.

What QB wont have accuracy issues when he's getting hit consistently? It effects them even when there is no pressure on a particular play. The clock in his head goes off. Happens to EVERY QB, even the great ones. A few hits from Ayers last night, and Luck didnt look that great.

As far as his mobility, whats new? Everybody knows he's a pure pocket passer. But remember in 2011 how good he was moving in the pocket, side-stepping pressure? The problem is he cant do it now because there's nowhere to side step to... pressure is coming from the edges and up the middle.

Bottom line, I think most would agree Eli isnt at Brady's, Peyton's, Rodgers, Brees' level, but IMO give him a decent OL and a functioning WRs group and Giants are contenders with him at QB. And if you agree with that, then you have to agree he's not the problem.

In comment 11958121 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 11958114 chris r said: Quote: Eli hasn't done shit in the post season without : A) a top 5 WR, the best OL In the league and one of the best RB rotations in the game (2007) Or The best trio of WRs in the league (2011) Boy I knew you were annoying. But I didnt know you were dumb as fucking shit either.

You haven't been paying much attention then, dep.

In comment 11958731 GloryDayz said:

Quote:

but IMO give him a decent OL and a functioning WRs group and Giants are contenders with him at QB.

good post, but on this point, you could say the same thing about joe flacco, matt ryan, and many other above-average qbs. i think many people here still think eli is as good as brady, peyton, rogers, brees.

I think all anyone is looking for is not crucify Eli for every incompletion. People also act like Peyton and Brady have no talent around them, which is bullshit.