season. Yet Coughlin stubbornly continues to trot him out there as his starter week after week in Jennings absence. I do not understand at all why Hillis and Cox have not been given a chance to replace Williams's carries. They can't possibly be any worse. In fact, Hillis has looked pretty decent in his limited playing time, and has average 4.4 ypc compared to Williams's 3.0 ypc. Earth to Coughlin.....earth to Coughlin. Get Williams to the bench and insert Cox or Hillis as the starter this week. You truly have nothing to lose.....except your job of course.
may have shorted dayne
huge coaching error not getting cox involved in the gameplans the last 3 weeks to keep the defense honest
Is he ready to be a number one back in the league, well obviously no, but he has only played a handful of games.
I realize this is a what have you done for me lately game but give the guy a little time before you cut him.
Patience is a virtue and certainly lacking.
I'm not sure what anyone has seen to say he will be a very good player. I think it's fair to say that we haven't seen enough to say he won't be a good player, but except for the chris r factor, I'M interested to hear why.
we have seen some to that end. great college back. he looked good in the preseason. measurables etc.
additionally, seems like a highly motivated, intelligent player. I don't think the nfl is going to be too much for him to learn.
on the feild he has looked really good once he has gotten to the second level. he hasn't gotten there often enough, and while that is partly his fault, it is also a collective failure by the team.
Williams has no blocking. He could do a better job setting up blocks, but that will come with experience. He is a very good, punishing, RB.
It's startling that some of you would rather have a middling back up RB take snaps, a guy with zero upside, rather than a rookie still trying to learn the game.
Yeah, Peyton Hillis is the key to this season. Or Cox, for that matter. Unbelievable.
With that being said, I am optimistic that he will turn out to be a good (if not great) running back for the Giants.
Cox, on the other hand, i can see giving him some opportunities. he has looked ok in limited use. it would be worth a shot to see. he was down on the PS in the beggining of the season, so that maybe why it's taken a little bit longer. he seems like a try hard runner with some speed
I think he has the same run blocking as Wilson did last year. It's a miracle the veterans Hillis and Jennings have found small creases. Give Williams time to grow into finding his. And I don't mean have him run as often as he does unless the Oline improves.
He's on the roster as cheap insurance.
Hillis should get 25 carries a game if Cox is the only other option.
And he has one KO return, the first one of the game that wasn't brutal and people say he's flashed there. He's flashed more awfulness than anything else. I still don't know how he managed to return a kick, fielded cleanly, in stride, to the 7 yard line. No hesitation, returned to the 7 yard line, not fumbled and boxed around, not on a bounce, fielded cleanly, in stride, and I didn't think he should return it, but it wasn't like 10 yards deep at the back of the end zone, it was mid-way through at best.
He does not have an NFL future once he plays himself off the Giants. If he is a major part of the offense it means the Giants have thrown in the towel.
It reminds me of last season when Wilson struggled behind the line, but washed up backs like Jacobs and Hillis had some success because their downhill style was a better fit for the line the Giants had.
Cox gained 17 yards on the last play of a meaningless game and ran the shotgun draw on 3rd and 12 for 10 yards before the end of the half.
Doesn't the context mean something?
Some of you guys are tough to please. If Hillis and Cox were playing all the time, there'd be tons of BBIers complaining about how Coughlin never plays rookies.
I think this Williams kid is going to be a keeper. Hills is good for a few yards here and there and a blitz pick up or two, but I don't think he's a difference maker. And don't forget, Cox is probably really tired from all those kick offs he's brining back to the 13 yard line.
Running back is a position guys should be able to play from day 1. And if they struggle it's with pass catching or blocking or maybe fumbling. Running? They should show that from the beginning. This guy isn't doing it.
Hope I am wrong, but very worried that he's going to be a total bust.
It's startling that some of you would rather have a middling back up RB take snaps, a guy with zero upside, rather than a rookie still trying to learn the game.
Yeah, Peyton Hillis is the key to this season. Or Cox, for that matter. Unbelievable.
Hilis has little going for him? How the hell is a 4.4 ypc avg little going for him? Expecialy compared to Williams pathetic 3.0? Hilis is slow, yes, but at least he has the vision an NFL RB needs to have. Williams doesn't have vision.
Let me ask you something, was Chales Way slow? Yes, he was and he was a fucking beast. I think Hillis is a similar type runner to what Way was. I used to love to watch Way play the game, he was an absolute monster on the field.
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how the hell is he a better option? The guy has literally nothing going for him. And let's not get carried away with the YPC. Hillis has had a ton of his carries on 3rd and 75 type situations, of course he's gonna have more room to run.
It's startling that some of you would rather have a middling back up RB take snaps, a guy with zero upside, rather than a rookie still trying to learn the game.
Yeah, Peyton Hillis is the key to this season. Or Cox, for that matter. Unbelievable.
Hilis has little going for him? How the hell is a 4.4 ypc avg little going for him? Expecialy compared to Williams pathetic 3.0? Hilis is slow, yes, but at least he has the vision an NFL RB needs to have. Williams doesn't have vision.
If you had bothered to read the exact post that you replied to, you have the answer right in front of you. Hillis has gotten a ton of his yardage on 3rd and long draws. The defense is not stacked in the box like they are for a majority of Williams' carries. Did you not read that before asking that stupid question? What is wrong with this place?
Second...as several have mentioned, he lacks vision.
Third...Not only does he lack vision, but he doesn't have very good lateral movement. He's got heavy feet and going side to side for him isn't easy.
Fourth...while I agree that our OL have done a pass poor job in run blocking, someone explain to my how and why Jennings was fourth in the league in rushing before he got hurt? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jennings is miles better than Williams. Jennings has all of the attributes you want in a good Rb, while Williams lack several of them.
Why? Jennings has better vision, he can set up blocks, he can cut off of those blocks, and his lateral movement is light years better than Williams. What do you guys see when you compare the 2?
Look, from everything I've read about Williams, I think he is a fantastic kid and class act. I want him to succeed. I just don't think he's got the makings of a good RB in the nfl. You've got to be able create and get your own in the NFL if you're going to be considered a good RB. JMHO
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In comment 11964639 BigBlueShock said:
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how the hell is he a better option? The guy has literally nothing going for him. And let's not get carried away with the YPC. Hillis has had a ton of his carries on 3rd and 75 type situations, of course he's gonna have more room to run.
It's startling that some of you would rather have a middling back up RB take snaps, a guy with zero upside, rather than a rookie still trying to learn the game.
Yeah, Peyton Hillis is the key to this season. Or Cox, for that matter. Unbelievable.
Hilis has little going for him? How the hell is a 4.4 ypc avg little going for him? Expecialy compared to Williams pathetic 3.0? Hilis is slow, yes, but at least he has the vision an NFL RB needs to have. Williams doesn't have vision.
If you had bothered to read the exact post that you replied to, you have the answer right in front of you. Hillis has gotten a ton of his yardage on 3rd and long draws. The defense is not stacked in the box like they are for a majority of Williams' carries. Did you not read that before asking that stupid question? What is wrong with this place?
And you have not addressed my point that Williams is lacking the vision an NFL RB needs. How many fucking times do we have to watch Williams run for 1, 0, or negative yardage?
I can think of maybe two instances where Hillis has run on third and long. Of course that has helped his average. No shit. My point still remains unchanged.
He's getting better.
Williams will never be able to overcome weak interior line. hes not quick enough. the giants suck there. until we get a center with a pulse williams will struggle to be consistent.
Apparently the Giants have opted to develop Williams and suffer through his growing pains this season. I assume that they think that by the end of the season they will know if Williams will be a starter next year or if they will have to spend a high draft choice on another RB. The Giants certainly can't answer that question if they don't play Williams.
Wouldn't it have made more sense in a period where running backs are not hot items to sign a free agent after Jennings was injured? Someone who had experience and still had some ability but was cut due to age and salary considerations?
Someone like, say, OJ Anderson. Would anyone have predicted that he would be a Super Bowl MVP?
So far this draft class looks decent. With, potentially, another high set of picks coming, if we can duplicate the results from this class, we'll be on our way back to contending.
RE: Cox playing bad last year - Gale Sayers would struggle to run behind last year's OLine.
I do think that his inability to be a threat out of the backfield is a bit hindering as well, really takes away any threat of a screen pass.
Williams deserved his #2 spot behind Jennings but his style was always going to be more of a plodder. Hillis at #3 does not offer enough speed/juke to get significant carries. He is too much like Williams in the running dept. Therefore, any injury to Jennings left us with only the slow big-back running style.
Not sure what we are doing with Cox but if we are not going to use him, then we should have made sure we had a more experienced smaller back as a reserve too.
Run blocking is an inexact science - because of the way defensive players move during the play and the way OL gets off the ball -
many times the available gap opens up in a slightly different place then the play was designed for .
I will say it a million times
he has no vision for the holes
just go back and look at the previous 3 games where Willams has started.
You can see during the plays that a cut back or choosing a different gap would have created large runs for Willams but he basically runs right into a bunch of Defensive lineman
One of the reasons is you seem him put his head down when he hits the line rather than looking up and potential altering his run.
Maybe he is a rookie and needs to learn -
the running lanes are there - if the lightbulb goes off in his head then our whole offense will take off like it did in the previous 3 wins .
Of course, the scouting reports coming out of college say differently, but eh. Who knows more than impatient Giants fans when it comes to judging a players potential? Why give him time to adjust to the NFL game when we can give up on a rookie after 3 games and plug a stud with incredible upside like Peyton Hillis in the lineup? Now THATS man with great vision!
Scouting report - ( New Window )
Of course, the scouting reports coming out of college say differently, but eh. Who knows more than impatient Giants fans when it comes to judging a players potential? Why give him time to adjust to the NFL game when we can give up on a rookie after 3 games and plug a stud with incredible upside like Peyton Hillis in the lineup? Now THATS man with great vision! Scouting report - ( New Window )
OK. So we shouldn't report what our eyes tell us? Its kind of a catch 22 situation then. People who go off scouting reports on players are slammed for only relying on the scouting report and not watching the guy play. Now we're told we shouldn't rely on our eyes, only someone else's.
How long has Jennings been in the league? Also, Jennings had a lot of time with this OL in camp. Williams is a rookie! Why can't you guys understand this? It takes time to get used to the speed of the game. Comparing him to Jennings us utterly ridiculous. Do you think Jennings was as good his first 3 games in the NFL as he is now?
The only way Williams will improve is to get time on the field.
This OL is less than average in blocking for RBs.
Runners tend to get long runs when they have a big hole.
I agree, he could do better. Unfortunately, he hasn't.
Who said they are giving up on Williams? All I'm saying is that Hillis these past three games would have better option due to Williams inexperience. All the available evidence abcks up those claims: Hillis 4.4 ypc, Williams 3.0 ypc. I don't care that Hillis gained some of his yardage on 3rd and long draws-he still would of had a better avg than Williams.
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the point is, how about you give him some time? I know it's the cool thing to do around here to whine, bitch, moan and complain when things aren't going well, but holy fuck. Give the dude some time. you want to sit on your couch and proclaim that he's useless and has no vision after 3 fucking games in the NFL. I'm sure we can create quite a list of RBs that strugglesd their first 3 games and went on to have great careers. Show some damn patience.
Who said they are giving up on Williams? All I'm saying is that Hillis these past three games would have better option due to Williams inexperience. All the available evidence abcks up those claims: Hillis 4.4 ypc, Williams 3.0 ypc. I don't care that Hillis gained some of his yardage on 3rd and long draws-he still would of had a better avg than Williams.
Umm, yeah, that's not what you said at all. Way to back track. You said he doesn't look like an NFL caliber running back and a ton of people on here are saying that he lacks vision. That doesn't sound to me at all like you said that Hillis was a better option because of inexperience. It sounds like you and others have determined that he sucks. After 3 games. And again, playing Hillis does NOTHING to help this team. Peyton Hillis would not have led this team to victory in any of the losses, had he played the entire game. Playing him accomplishes exactly nothing. He is not going to be on this team long term. Williams is. Playing Williams gets him much needed time and experience for the future. It's a no brainer, really.
If Hillis was capable of leading this team to the playoffs, sure, get him on the field. But truth is, that's not happening.
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In comment 11965031 BigBlueShock said:
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the point is, how about you give him some time? I know it's the cool thing to do around here to whine, bitch, moan and complain when things aren't going well, but holy fuck. Give the dude some time. you want to sit on your couch and proclaim that he's useless and has no vision after 3 fucking games in the NFL. I'm sure we can create quite a list of RBs that strugglesd their first 3 games and went on to have great careers. Show some damn patience.
Who said they are giving up on Williams? All I'm saying is that Hillis these past three games would have better option due to Williams inexperience. All the available evidence abcks up those claims: Hillis 4.4 ypc, Williams 3.0 ypc. I don't care that Hillis gained some of his yardage on 3rd and long draws-he still would of had a better avg than Williams.
Umm, yeah, that's not what you said at all. Way to back track. You said he doesn't look like an NFL caliber running back and a ton of people on here are saying that he lacks vision. That doesn't sound to me at all like you said that Hillis was a better option because of inexperience. It sounds like you and others have determined that he sucks. After 3 games. And again, playing Hillis does NOTHING to help this team. Peyton Hillis would not have led this team to victory in any of the losses, had he played the entire game. Playing him accomplishes exactly nothing. He is not going to be on this team long term. Williams is. Playing Williams gets him much needed time and experience for the future. It's a no brainer, really.
If Hillis was capable of leading this team to the playoffs, sure, get him on the field. But truth is, that's not happening.
And you know this how? How could you possibly know that Hillis could not lead this team to victory these past three games? He wasn't given the chance, so we will never know. You say Williams will be on this team long term...as if that is a certainty. It certainly is not a certainty with the way he has looked these past three games. I'm not giving up on him yet, but to act like this guy is a lock to be on this roster for many years to come is far fetched. Who the Hell cares if Peyton Hillis will not be on this roster long term? That has NOTHING to do with the fact that he is the more polished, experienced runner when compared to Williams. The NFL is a win now league, not see if we can build something with depth league. Hillis with his experience would have given the Giants more of a chance to win these past three weeks. That is the bottom line.
I'm done here. Good luck
I'm done here. Good luck
Congratulations. You didn't address any of my points and instead put words into my mouth. And I'm the clown show? Try addressing my points. For those who have watched the games, there can be ZERO argument for Williams to have started these games. He is either not good enough, or to inexperience. It is one or the other. Of course the online hasn't helped. Of course it isn't all Williams fault. But, he clearly should not have been starting. I never fucking said starting Hillis would have guaranteed victory-I merely said starting an experienced player at the position would have given the Giants a better chance of winning. So let me ask you, do you think Williams should start again this week, despite the fact that he has not been effective in a single game this season? You what the definition of insanity is, right? Doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different result. Here's a clue: Williams just isn't cutting it this season. He is not ready or not good enough to be a starting NFL RB, THIS SEASON.
after the dallas game
to me , the same problems continued last week.
perhaps he will learn to read the blocks better
but after 3 games starting there is zero progress is a bit worrisome
Andre Williams' struggles in Dallas, the lack of blitzing and more in this week's Giants film review - ( New Window )
Peyton Hillis is the guy to turn this season around.
He's on the roster as cheap insurance.
Hillis should get 25 carries a game if Cox is the only other option.
And he has one KO return, the first one of the game that wasn't brutal and people say he's flashed there. He's flashed more awfulness than anything else. I still don't know how he managed to return a kick, fielded cleanly, in stride, to the 7 yard line. No hesitation, returned to the 7 yard line, not fumbled and boxed around, not on a bounce, fielded cleanly, in stride, and I didn't think he should return it, but it wasn't like 10 yards deep at the back of the end zone, it was mid-way through at best.
He does not have an NFL future once he plays himself off the Giants. If he is a major part of the offense it means the Giants have thrown in the towel.
Huh?
He has decent hands to catch out of the backfield and he "is" our fastest RB. He hasn't been on the field with any starting caliber OL! To say he is a bust is akin to premature ejaculation, until he is in, you just don't know. How long did it take Bradshaw to see significant playing time! Williams is only in his 1st year and deserves patience. Now is the time to see what Cox and Washington can do! JMHO.
They don't need to stick them in a game "to see what they can do". Just because you havent seen them enough doesn't mean that they are some unknown.