No NFL will ever come out and say they are rebuilding. The NYG virtually over the last two off seasons. Tuck, Nicks, Osi, Bradshaw, the OL etc.
Rebuilding takes time. The biggest reason the offense was broken was not because Kevin Gilbride likes to run shotgun draw but because his system was impossible for rookies to learn. Would Beckem, JR be having this success with KG's scheme? Doubtful.
In 2013 we drafted Pugh, who has regressed a little this year, and we also drafted out center of the future who is playing guard. Our OL is missing two pieces both at guard. Schwartz may have been the answer but is hurt. If he is healthy you are a solid guard short of a good line.
The backfield is in good shape. ODB, a healthy Cruz, Randle/Parker at no. 3 and then a pass catching TE and this offense is solid.
The defensive retooling last year started with the secondary. Injuries are really bad luck. Now we focus on pass rushers this offseason and a new DC. TC I am willing agreed to helping force out KG as long as he could keep PF. Fewell is a goner. He has not adjusted his scheme to fit his personnel. Not sure who the next DC will be but it will be an upgrade.
Reese has hit on about 30% of his draft picks setting aside massive injury. Steve Smith was a huge success, Reese has nothing to do with Smith's knee getting shredded or Nicks body falling apart.
So the ship is sailing in the right direction. You have a franchise QB. Whether the storm and remember you have two SB rings in 2007 and 2011.
I think we've already hit the iceberg though
Do that, and I can live with everything else.
The DL needs more than just pass rushers. Who will play next to Hankins? Will they keep JP? And move him to LDE where he belongs? Can Bromley and Moore play? What about LB? They have nothing there.
I think Jennings and Williams are stars if they can stay healthy.
We talk about not having a running game, and then again, that goes to the oline. I realize we need better runners, but when our oline started to deteriorate in '12 that is when the yardage gained by our running backs began to decline and has progressively gotten worse, except for a game or two by Jennings.
I have never bought into the JR buzz but give him credit when deserved. The draft is not easy, but the focus should always have been on protecting Eli. That hasn't happened so he needs to go.
I would ask that if Gilbride's scheme was so difficult for rookies to pick up, why did smith and Nicks have decent rookie years or an undrafted Cruz was able to come in without any playing time and become an instant star? And why does Randle still look lost?
I'm pretty sure ODB would have thrived in Gilbride's offense as well.
Dave, I'm with you. 5 out of six years no playoffs. In the Super Bowl year 2011 they just made it in. 2012 on they have stunk so we should just stay the course. Just unbelievable!
But is it coaching or talent?
I would argue the Giants weren't all that talented in 2011 when they won it all. We relied on three good WRs and some high level QB play. The pass rush returning for the playoffs sealed the deal.
You can argue this team hasn't been overall "good" from a talent perspective since Plax's accident. Not to mention injuries seem to do us in every year. Cruz, Prince, Thurmond, Beason, and Wilson this year. That's three starters, your nickel CB, and your most electrifying RB (minus the fumbles).
I can't punish the HC for lack of talent, injuries, and some players who simply don't have pro mentalities (see Banks' Monday comments)
The Giants needed to recognize that they needed to "renovate" after winning the Super Bowl in 2011.
The problem with the Giants from the owner down to the head coach is that they are too loyal. Far too many times they are a year too late.
They have been too late on Diehl, Snee, Kiwi, Webster...just to name a few.
The Ravens for example, realized that even though they won it all in 12, had major "renovating" to do and have executed a plan on the fly.
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Teams looked like shit for going 3 seasons. Might as well stay the course until Eli is done.
But is it coaching or talent?
I would argue the Giants weren't all that talented in 2011 when they won it all. We relied on three good WRs and some high level QB play. The pass rush returning for the playoffs sealed the deal.
You can argue this team hasn't been overall "good" from a talent perspective since Plax's accident. Not to mention injuries seem to do us in every year. Cruz, Prince, Thurmond, Beason, and Wilson this year. That's three starters, your nickel CB, and your most electrifying RB (minus the fumbles).
I can't punish the HC for lack of talent, injuries, and some players who simply don't have pro mentalities (see Banks' Monday comments)
It's probably a bit of both. But that doesn't take away the coaching staff, and even the front office's responsibility. And you can easily get on coaching when this team continually shoots itself in the foot with stupid penalties on a consistent basis. For a coach that preaches discipline, this has been far from a disciplined team in recent years. That falls on coaching.
I would ask that if Gilbride's scheme was so difficult for rookies to pick up, why did smith and Nicks have decent rookie years or an undrafted Cruz was able to come in without any playing time and become an instant star? And why does Randle still look lost?
I'm pretty sure ODB would have thrived in Gilbride's offense as well.
Fatman, I hear that...
But I think with Nicks, it was pretty much spot duty. If I recall, he was a somewhat situational player in his rookie season, coming in for certain packages. His role gradually increased as the season went on.
As for Cruz, he was on the Giants roster for a year or two before cracking the lineup, so it's not like Gilbride's system was new to him. I also recall during that 2011 run Coughlin getting on him early for making bad reads.
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Teams looked like shit for going 3 seasons. Might as well stay the course until Eli is done.
Dave, I'm with you. 5 out of six years no playoffs. In the Super Bowl year 2011 they just made it in. 2012 on they have stunk so we should just stay the course. Just unbelievable!
Sometimes I wonder what team some of these folks have been watching.
Those ravens?
Do that, and I can live with everything else.
Fewell should be back he's tc guy. Just stay on course and no knee jerk reactions which is easy to do. Injuries did them in this year and hopefully they'll all come back next year. Its a work in progress have to keep the pieces and maybe add a few pieces down the line.
I don't know if I said that or not, but I most likely was for firing him back then.
Doesn't change a thing about where the team currently is right now, though..
Well, maybe it does for you. But not anyone else.
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didn't you say not firing Tom Coughlin after 2010 was "settling for mediocrity"?
I don't know if I said that or not, but I most likely was for firing him back then.
Doesn't change a thing about where the team currently is right now, though..
Well, maybe it does for you. But not anyone else.
The point is consistency is king, and knee jerk reactions are why you're a fan, and they're professionals.
My point was not to call you out, it's to point out that had they caved to fan demands, 2011 never happens.
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In comment 11972497 Britt in VA said:
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didn't you say not firing Tom Coughlin after 2010 was "settling for mediocrity"?
I don't know if I said that or not, but I most likely was for firing him back then.
Doesn't change a thing about where the team currently is right now, though..
Well, maybe it does for you. But not anyone else.
The point is consistency is king, and knee jerk reactions are why you're a fan, and they're professionals.
My point was not to call you out, it's to point out that had they caved to fan demands, 2011 never happens.
Fair enough. But I don't think reacting to the past 3 seasons is a knee-jerk reaction. Three seasons is a fairly strong sample size in sports, especially this day and age. One year is knee-jerk. I don't think three seasons is, especially with the number of blowouts we've seen in recent years.
None of us know what will happen at the end of the season, but if the Giants did make a change, I wouldn't consider it knee-jerk. Three weak seasons in a row, TC creeping up to 70. Maybe Mara doesn't is tired of the 1 year extensions and wants to make a solid commitment going forward. All fair reasons, if they decide to go elsewhere.
I won't complain if they keep him, and I won't complain if they replace him. I can see positives in both.
Of course, those could easily just be statements made to appease an uneasy fan base, so they could be meaningless.
I'm split on whether TC should stay or go. I honestly believe the guy's still a great coach, and that the game hasn't passed him by, but that organizational complacency has just set in. He's been here a long time, and after awhile, even the best message loses it's effectiveness. It might be best for both parties if he were to move on, to displace some people who have obviously become too comfortable and see if we can do better with someone else at the helm.
I loved Gilbride's offense, and it would have been cool to see OBJ in it.
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"I've never called for Tom to be fired and I'm not calling for that now. But if the Giants decide to make a coaching change, no one can say anything."
I won't complain if they keep him, and I won't complain if they replace him. I can see positives in both.
The part of me that wants to keep TC is the part of me that is so thankful for the 2 SBs. But other than that, I'm struggling to find reasons for him to stay, unfortunately. It's sad.
I have a harder time trusting Reese, especially over the coming years when we'll have to replace TC and Eli. He was gifted a top ten QB and top ten coach and has allowed the roster to disintegrate around them the past three years.
-TE (Behind Donnell)
-OT (Either starter at RT if Pugh is pushed inside or a competent backup)
-OG (Move Richburg to C)
-RB (Speedy third back to mesh with Dre and Rashad)
-DE (JPP? either way need a talent infusion here)
-DT (Need another body here)
-MLB (Beason looks to be done, Can Kennard be the guy?)
-OLB (Big need go get someone in FA)
-S (Need some youth, I would resign Rolle and draft groom his replacement)
-CB (Try to resign Thurmond/Bowman, and mid to late round pick)
Big offseason for the G-men
Started before that.....Giants rushed for 2200 yards in 2010......Giants were dead last in rushing in 2011, with only 1427 yards...yes, it was a SB season....yes we scored less points than we gave up....that 6 game stretch was something...
Do that, and I can live with everything else.
Close to agreeing with this......... But Tom Quinn has got to go too.
It's really obvious.
Because empty sentiments like 'playing above the xs and os' to guys who are already playing at their limited peak are easily tuned out.
A stale message is stale, regardless of whether or not you're hearing it from a specific person for the first time.
The Giants needed to recognize that they needed to "renovate" after winning the Super Bowl in 2011.
The problem with the Giants from the owner down to the head coach is that they are too loyal. Far too many times they are a year too late.
They have been too late on Diehl, Snee, Kiwi, Webster...just to name a few.
The Ravens for example, realized that even though they won it all in 12, had major "renovating" to do and have executed a plan on the fly.
It is hard to decide when to let a good ballplayer go. If you wait a year too long, their playing ability might drop too fast. If you jettison them too quickly, you look bad the next year when they succeed with another team. Case in point, Bradshaw. With his bad feet, who would have expected him to do so well this year? I think that letting him go was the correct decision, based on what the Giants knew about his medical condition. Football predictions are as questionable as weather forecasts.
Lind of like Beason....
You fire TC, you lose McAdoo, and your starting from scratch on offense all over again.
These plentiful blow-outs over 3 seasons has to speak to something, and it is not good. If we play like this over the next 2 weeks, those calling for a TC return will be rethinking their position real soon. We are not competing.
New coach, new GM. It's time.
Then in 2005 you can see the shift to defense. They drafted Webster & Tuck and signed Pierce, and drafted Kiwi in 2006.
Starting the rebuilding process on offense makes sense as offense takes longer to gel, and players to get the timing down... etc.
I'll just say, counting on Cruz to come back the same in 2015 would be a risk. There's a chance he's never the same even beyond that. They still need another WR. I think they need to draft another WR high (1st or 2nd round, more likely 2nd), or sign a dependable FA.
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I just want Fewell gone.
Do that, and I can live with everything else.
Fewell should be back he's tc guy. Just stay on course and no knee jerk reactions which is easy to do. Injuries did them in this year and hopefully they'll all come back next year. Its a work in progress have to keep the pieces and maybe add a few pieces down the line.
If the defense had few good to very good years under Fewell, you could give him a pass for a bad year with a lot of injuries. But the defense has been mediocre IMO since he got here.
I wouldnt want him back
I think Jennings and Williams are stars if they can stay healthy.
$17m over 4 years, with $5.7m guaranteed does not sound like a depth signing. When Schwatrz is healthy he's a starter, at least through 2015 IMO. He may not be all thats hoped for, but if he's just ok, surrounded by decent talent he'd be serviceable at worst.