What is your view of this team and what would you do?

In comment 11975462 Go Terps said:

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Current state of the team: - I think this team already bottomed out last year during the 0-6 run. I don't see that same level of struggle this year. I think the offense is on the upswing with young players basically everywhere. The defense is the area of greatest concern. The two cornerstone players and supposed leaders, Rolle and JPP, are good players but are not the type of people you want to put any sort of faith in. This is the area where you get the feeling that effort is a problem. Outside of Hankins and Amukamara I don't feel great about any player on this side of the ball. - More than ever a head coach is a CEO, and I think Coughlin is as good in that area as any. I do think it's time for change from Fewell and Quinn, though those decisions should probably be made by Coughlin (a hierarchy that may have already been interrupted by the McAdoo move...which I think has turned out to be a good one). - I think Reese had some bad drafts from 2008-2012. Some of that was his fault (Austin, Barden, Jernigan, Hosely), some wasn't (Phillips, Wilson, Jones). Most fundamentally he is indisputably a great talent evaluator. I don't think that's a guy you let walk. I think the errors of those drafts have largely been rectified in the 2013-2014 drafts; that should start bearing serious fruit next year. What I would do: - Keep Reese. I think he's got his fastball back. - Sign Coughlin to a 4 year extension (basically a 3 year deal). Have serious discussions with him behind closed doors about Fewell and Quinn. If the Gilbride/McAdoo situation happened over his head, then maybe talk to him about doing the same with those guys...but does that make him walk? Impossible to know the dynamics from the outside. - Do NOT retain JPP or Rolle. Use that cap space and draft resources to obtain the following: - Veteran nasty OL (Mike Iupati in FA is the first name that comes to mind) - A MIKE LB that likes hitting people, and can instill that nature in his defensive teammates. Obviously this and any other defensive additions would depend heavily on whether Fewell is retained; if he isn't then his replacement obviously must provide maximum input. - A WR to push Randle down the depth chart. I imagine we've all seen enough to know what he is. I don't think this team is all that far away, especially in this roulette wheel of a league. On the field I think the defense is the most immediate concern...there is a serious lack of hunger on that side of the ball.

I agree with just about everything GoTerps wrote although I would keep JPP at the right price. It's not evident at the moment but I think the Giants are moving in the right direction.

you're never as good or bad as you might think.

This team wasn't some unstoppable force from 05-2011 and it's not the complete and hopeless shit show it resembles today.

We need play makers. Difference makers. You can't build a team with no weaknesses anymore as it's just too tough to navigate around the cap and not have weak spots on a roster. So you try to build dominant fields of the team and hope that those strengths cam augment the rest of the roster.

I'd try to keep JPP but only at a relatively reasonable salary.

I'd build around Eli but if a franchise QB was available when NY is on the clock over the next 1-2-3 drafts i'd draft him without a moment's hesitation.

Add play makers. Don't look for position. Look for players. WR, LB, RB...TE...DE...any and all.

it can be fixed in one off season. And it hasn't been one off season anyway. This crumble and rebuild has been ongoing for 2-3 years now.

Next year we could be sitting on a 6-3 record and it shouldn't surprise anyone. We may not even need to have a huge off season to get there.

I would seriously consider burning the entire thing down.

Something about this franchise has been absolutely rotten for far too long. The non competitive games, guys looking like they're quitting, disconnect between players and coaches, weak personnel, etc..

Eli can still play. I know when you move into a new regime, they usually want to draft "their" guy but I think if you have a good player at the QB position, you keep him in place.

OBJ is the real deal. We know Cruz can play if he gets healthy. I really like Jennings. I like Richburg and Pugh. Everything else on the offensive side of the ball I'm either indifferent towards or could do without.

Defensively, the only guys I want back here are Hankins, DRC, Prince and Ayers. I still like Moore, Bromley is an unknown but he's obviously on a rookie deal and will be back. I'd let JPP go, I'd let Rolle go and again.. the other guys I'm either indifferent towards or think they're disposable.

I will always respect Tom Coughlin as a coach and a football man and he will be in the Giants ring of Honor and hopefully the HoF but I think the ship has left the harbor and is just gone. His messages are ringing hollow, it's not working. There are too many mistakes, too many non competitive games and too much of a disconnect.

Quinn should have been gone yesterday, Fewell's time is up. McAdoo is in a weird spot because I like him but it's hard to clean house but leave him in place.

Marc Ross should be gone.

I'm a fan of Jerry Reese in some regards but it's hard to ignore the fact that not one above average LB has been developed here on his watch. The OL was put on the back burner about 3 years too long. And there are just too many holes on the roster.

I think some serious changes need to be made. Something is very, very rotten about this team and it's not going away.

Who is your daddy, and what does he do?

I do not think you can tell whether it is coaching/personnel decisions or a combo of both. Since the answer is not clear to me, I think you have to start removing variables. I would start with a coaching change. Coughlin has had a great run but it is over. Unfortunately, due to age, anything involving him as coach is delaying the inevitable coaching change which will happen within the next few years. I would tell Reese, to pick a coach and fix the front office. If talent things have not improved in 2 to 3 years, he is gone too.

Eli is a tougher call. He can still play, but I do not know what his contract demands are going to be. Part of the talent problem is having a QB take up a large part of the salary cap. I would hope a contract could be worked out that would lower his cap number but I do not know if he'd take any sort of discount.

by trading JPP and Rolle this year.

Next year I would offer TC an executive role in the orginization, if declined he should be forced to retire.

Hire a new head coach and allow the new head coach to assemble his own staff.

This team needs a make over on key players and coaching staff.

Coughlin, Fewell, and Quinn.

I'm not a fan of Marc Ross and his drafts have sucked...BUT...this past draft looks good. Beckham, Williams, Richburg, Bromley, and Kennard all look like they have a future here. I'm probably going to give him another shot and hope this is the start of something good.

I would also keep JPP. He's going to make about $2mil next year? Let him play out his contract and audition for a new team. I would cut Kiwi though. I'd also bring back Rolle if I can do it at a reasonable cost. I'd bring in another safety to start beside him this year and worry about his replacement the year after.

I like DRC and Prince as our corners. Not much more you can do about depth though. We had it to start the season, but the more CB's the Giants sign the more end up on IR. Its weird. What more can you do?

I would like to see a new starting MLB next year also. We don't need a Patrick Willis - just a guy who is smart and instinctive and can tackle. There are usually a few of these guys available every year and the Giants always turn their noses up at them.

I really feel as though the offense is only a few pieces away. But all of those pieces are on the offensive line. Walton isn't working out. I'd look for his replacement or move Richburg to Center and find another Guard to work with Schwartz (provided he plays well this year). I don't know if they can dump Beatty yet but I'd only do it if I can bring in someone else better.

I'd also look to draft another wideout early in case Cruz doesn't make it back to the dynamic player he was before.

I like Jennings at RB and I think Williams is going to be really good if he can just learn to be patient. Donnell is also coming along.

In comment 11976152 JPinstripes said:

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by trading JPP and Rolle this year. Next year I would offer TC an executive role in the orginization, if declined he should be forced to retire. Hire a new head coach and allow the new head coach to assemble his own staff. This team needs a make over on key players and coaching staff.

Somebody doesn't know when the NFL trade deadline was.

This thread made me look at the roster link on BBI to see who is under contract for next year. I have linked it below. Read it and weep. We are a team severely lacking in talent. It is not even a question.

I love Coughlin but this team has too often showed a lack of intestinal fortitude over the past 2-3 seasons. I would like to keep him but I don't think it is the right thing to do anymore.

If Coughlin is moving on I would probably ax Reese/Ross too because Coughlins failures are as much about the players he has had the past few years as they are about anything.

Problem with that is the Giants never completely blow up their franchise so I don't see that happening.

Look at this mess - ( New Window )

I'd keep TC and McAdoo for another year. Why? TC has a solid overall record; is a good coach; and, you need continuity for year #2 in McAdoo's offense.

Fire Fewell, and the special teams, OL coach for sure. Bring in a good young DC. NY will attract good names, coaches.

Cut those players you know aren't giving their all this year.

If we lose to SF, and I believe we will based on our play these last 10 quarters, you begin playing the youth. Interject Schwartz on the OL at OG and move Richburg to Center and see what you have for the last six games of the year.

Play TE Robinson, DE Moore, LB Kennard and S Behre more and see what you have.

I want TC for one more year because this offense can get a serious RT this off-season and improve on the OL. You hope Cruz gets back to form; Donnell & Robinson develop at TE; and, we draft well again.

The Giants defense will be purged of players and coaches. I think they'll can at least improve to "middle of the pack" if guys come back healthy (Beason, Thurmond (re-signed), Prince, Taylor, etc., and we do well with our offseason UFa and draft decisions.

but it would take me so long to type in an answer..

on our team than JPP?

How in the world can the Giants sign him up for a king's ransom?

I think JPP's 2015 is a player option and the money is nowhere near where he'd get on the open market so unless we negotiate a new deal before then, he's gone.

I'm not sure I'd even mind at this point. The guy is an excellent run defending DE and he's good enough as a pass rusher but he's going to get a LOT of money and I just don't know if I'd want to clog up the cap in giving him a large contract.

He also says a lot of shit that annoys me. He doesn't seem to have grown up at all since he came into the league.

In that case I'd probably let him go as well. I agree with everything you said. He's probably going to want a lot more than he's worth.

We can't afford to give JPP big $. We got so many needs that giving a ton of $ to one player isn't the best option.

In comment 11975259 Bold Ruler said:

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to start. First thing I would do is keep Eli. We have a franchise QB and that is the hardest thing to find in the NFL and the most valuable. Eli is more valuable than any coach or GM or other player. Reese needs to go ASAP. The entire player evaluation dept needs to be overhauled. This is a colossal failure of the entire department. Fewell and and Quinn need to go ASAP. No words needed. Beyond that I would not resign JPP or Rolle on the defensive side of the ball. Need the cap room. I would make a ply to bring in Suh from Detroit. The man is nasty, plays hard every down and is exactly what this team needs to set the tone for the attitude and effort needed to return the Giants to a Defense minded team. On the offense we need a lot of work on O-Line. Move Richburg to Center, drop Walton and Jerry and we need to draft a solid guard maybe in round 2 or 3. I would consider spending a #1 pick on WR again. I doubt Cruz is going to have the speed he used to have. Randle sucks and we need a full compliment of receiving threats. We also need another top RB. There are so many needs it's hard to articulate them in one post.

You made some good points, but you forgot to mention the biggest problem...TC. He is the head coach and his assistants have to adhere to his philosophys. In the last few games, they played competitive in the first half, then when the opposition makesd adjustments, the Giant totally tank. PF is under TC AND BOTH OF THEM SHOULD GO AFTER THE SEASON

Coaching:

- Most if not all need to go - not because they're bad coaches, but because the results aren't changing under them with different personnel, which tends to point to the coaching having become ineffective. It's been a long time, can't really think of any coach beyond Belichick who's been with a team this long in the parity era and been effective.

I'd have Coughlin assume a FO role and elevate McAdoo to HC *if* that's the guy they were honestly assuming was going to take the reigns from TC. Ideally, he'd have a year or two more to grow under TC, but I think we need a bigger shakeup than that.

I don't think most of the defensive problems are on Fewell, but I've never thought he was better than average as a DC. We can try to do better there.

Front Office:

- Ross needs to go. Aside from the generally shitty luck that we've had the past few years, it seems like Reese's elevation and Ross' hiring coincided with the start of some bad drafting. His record before he arrived wasn't exactly spotless either. Another guy who would be considered average at best, we can do better here too.

- Reese needs to be more hands-on - put Coughlin in the FO with some sort of VP title, and have Reese and Coughlin share the workload (*not* the GM title). There are non-personnel related functions that fall onto the GM, maybe spreading it out a bit would give Reese more time to focus on talent evaluation.

- Chris Mara needs to go. I don't know if he's a problem, but I don't think that I could do a proper evaluation of my FO if I were his brother, knowing I was getting inside feedback that might be biased. I doubt he's the liability that most BBIers make him out to be, but any positive he brings to the table is offset by that bias.

- Scouts - something stinks in our inability to develop a decent LB or OL the past decade. I'm not talking about great ones, I'm talking about serviceable backups. Either we're drafting guys who are complete shit (scouting) or we can't coach either of those positions for shit. Again, reading some of the draft writeups on the guys we get, they seem to be coming in with at least some potential that ends up never being realized.


The whole Coughlin/McAdoo dynamic is going to be key, *IF* (big if) he was the guy they were planning on taking over. I'm not sure how willing Coughlin would be to stick around in that capacity, with his last season coaching on the field yielding such a shitty record. I do think Coughlin would make a good FO man, and I think that Reese is an excellent talent evaluator - the two combined would make a great team, if the dynamic is right.

like to have Iupati on the OL I think his cost might be prohibitive;perhaps not. That highlights for me that going for Gabe Jackson or Trai Turner in the 3rd round rather than Bromley will be a subject re-visited in 3 years a la the Unger v. Sintim pick. The 2014 draft was unique in the availablity of immediate starting quality on the OL. The Beckham-Richburg picks were outstanding.

I'm in favor of moving Pugh to LG if Reese thinks there is a starter available at RT around the 3rd round. Someone like Ty Sambrailo, Daryl Williams or Corey Robinson.

In my view, the offense will be exceptional with 2 additional starting OL. We can hope Schwartz is one. You can draft Beatty's successor in someone like La'el Collins and let him play OG until Beatty is gone. Or, gamble for a starting RT in the middle of the draft. All that said, if they want to pay for Iupati, that's great with me. But, I'm not seeing it.

I'd like to keep Rolle. JPP has to be signed at a very team friendly cost and I don't see that happening. Otherwise, there are many holes in the defense with the draft possibly providing a few immediate starters. I think Shaq Thompson may be the best defensive player in the draft and do not see him coming off the field as many assume with an OLB. Right now, unless they go LT in the first round,or Gregory at DE is available, I'm hoping for Thompson.

There are many safeties that can start or play early available in 2nd-4th rounds, like Derron Smith, Prewitt,Mills,Drummond,& Harris.

Keep all of Prince,DRC,McBride, Fenner & re-sign Thurmond as CBs. Dump Hosley,Bowman, Demps & Brown.

Finding a MLB out of thin air will be a major problem, unless they prefer Perryman at MLB over Thompson at OLB. Otherwise, they stick with McClain.

Fewell & Quinn are gone and McAdoo continues his audition as the future HC. Not sure who I'd like as DC but he has to have major input on the defensive staff.