My memory is in and out in regards to Dan Reeves coaching here.
-What was the reaction of the hire? Obviously he brought a lot of credibility off of a disastrous two seasons.
I remember the 11-5 season and playoff win against Minnesota, but then got smoked in SF. The following year they went 9-7 and misses the playoffs.
Reeves had it tough in that it was a transition from the Simms & LT years.
Were there any Giant fans who wanted him to stay after 96? Were most fans happy to see him go?
I find it interesting because Reeves got a job again soon after and did pretty well with the Falcons.
Some folks in Cleveland have had a few instances where they weren't happy, but I can't remember it elsewhere.
I also, sort of, remember the whole thing souring (relatively) quickly. For more than one reason. So by the time he left, I don't recall being upset.
Uh...Cowboy fans are still pissed about Landry being fired, despite the three subsequent Super Bowls..
It felt like the offense was ahead of its time, but the QB just wasn't there after Simms was cut. I suppose we deserved it...you don't cut Phil Simms and expect the gods to be ok with that.
The first choice, of course, was....
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Next to winning a SB, I think a HC getting fired is a lot of fan's favorite thing
Uh...Cowboy fans are still pissed about Landry being fired, despite the three subsequent Super Bowls..
touche....but that was a pretty extraordinary circumstance
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and perceived by many as settling.
The first choice, of course, was....
I know they asked Coughlin and Dave Wannstetd. Was TC the first choice?`
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In comment 11976100 Chris in Philly said:
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and perceived by many as settling.
The first choice, of course, was....
I know they asked Coughlin and Dave Wannstetd. Was TC the first choice?`
Yep, and Wannstedt was #2.
I wish football coaches would dress up again on the sideline like they used to, instead of wearing fugly and awkward Nike NFL golf shirts or windbreakers. It brought a sense of gravitas to the game. Made watching the NFL on Sunday feel more like a tradition and less like a commercial.
Coaches in suits and Jim Gordon on the radio. That's how I remember the early Reeves era.
When you think about it Coughlin has been the coach for three insane upsets at three different places:
- BC over Notre Dame in '93
- Jacksonville over Denver in '96 playoffs
- XLII
Not bad.
He was not admired by fans or players.
Fassel wasn't hot in 1992, he was the Giants offensive coordinator after Handley delegated the job. He didn't get to be a hot coordinator until after his stops in Denver and Arizona.
As for Reeves, the bottom line was that he got the last gasp out of the Parcells core team and then after they transitioned to the Dave Brown era (which was the run Hampton into the ground era), Reeves began to clash with George Young on the setup that was agreed to (and coordinated with Frank Gifford). It reached a head in 1995 and by 1996, everyone was sick of it and we all knew that Reeves was not coming back.
Had Mike Sherrard remain healthy we would have went farther in the playoffs.
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I remember TC and Wannstedt.
Fassel wasn't hot in 1992, he was the Giants offensive coordinator after Handley delegated the job. He didn't get to be a hot coordinator until after his stops in Denver and Arizona.
As for Reeves, the bottom line was that he got the last gasp out of the Parcells core team and then after they transitioned to the Dave Brown era (which was the run Hampton into the ground era), Reeves began to clash with George Young on the setup that was agreed to (and coordinated with Frank Gifford). It reached a head in 1995 and by 1996, everyone was sick of it and we all knew that Reeves was not coming back.
Boomer Esiason's performance against NYG playing for the Cards in '96 reportedly left a big impression on the NYG brass.
When you think about it Coughlin has been the coach for three insane upsets at three different places:
- BC over Notre Dame in '93
- Jacksonville over Denver in '96 playoffs
- XLII
Not bad.
As a sophomore at BC in 1993, that was an amazing win, the BC students tore the goal posts down in the stadium and carried them to David Gordon's dorm room after he made the kick. Holtz was a complete dick running it up on BC in 1992 because he wanted to rub it in on the upstarts and he ran that fake punt up 38-0. Coughlin said afterwords that he passed up the Giants job, in part because he felt he had unfinished business at BC, including preparing to beat Notre Dame the next season pretty much the moment after they lost 51-3.
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11-5 and the Div round was very likely its full potential.
Had Mike Sherrard remain healthy we would have went farther in the playoffs.
I doubt it, even with him NYG was unlikely to defeat SF or Dallas in the playoffs, imo. Those two teams really cranked it up in the tourney and pulled away from the pack.
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11-5 and the Div round was very likely its full potential.
Had Mike Sherrard remain healthy we would have went farther in the playoffs.
Mike Sherrard was Jerry Rice compared to the WRs before that. I still remember him breaking one, and he stumbled and broke his hip.
I always found it funny that there was a perception that Reeves didn't get enough input on personnel w/ the Giants. I'm sure GY wanted to cut Landeta and bring in Mike Horan. If they'd kept Landeta they wouldn't have had to waste a 3rd rd pick on Maynard.
I always found it funny that there was a perception that Reeves didn't get enough input on personnel w/ the Giants. I'm sure GY wanted to cut Landeta and bring in Mike Horan. If they'd kept Landeta they wouldn't have had to waste a 3rd rd pick on Maynard.
I agree. It made my blood boil that Reeves would constantly battle Young when Young let him bring every piece of shit Bronco castoff he could get his hands on...
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In comment 11976146 JonC said:
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11-5 and the Div round was very likely its full potential.
Had Mike Sherrard remain healthy we would have went farther in the playoffs.
Mike Sherrard was Jerry Rice compared to the WRs before that. I still remember him breaking one, and he stumbled and broke his hip.
My dad used to joke that instead of Gatorade, they needed to give Sherrard milk on the sidelines. That play was, I believe, the third broken bone he suffered in his short career and at least two of them were non-contact.
And I also did think he was a good hire, after all, he was a very accomplished coach.
But like all coaches that have the type of success he had in Denver, he wanted more power and say in personnel and that belonged to GY.
I always found it funny that there was a perception that Reeves didn't get enough input on personnel w/ the Giants. I'm sure GY wanted to cut Landeta and bring in Mike Horan. If they'd kept Landeta they wouldn't have had to waste a 3rd rd pick on Maynard.
Pepper was released because he didn't want to play SSLB in the new defense. He was coming up to be a free agent after 1993. When Reeves took over, the Giants signed Carlton Bailey to play on ILB and Pepper was the other. Banks was a free agent and the Giants slapped a franchise tag on him, and LT was coming back for his final season. As the offseason went along, the Broncos released Michael Brooks and the Giants decided to sign him and took the transition tag off Banks (who signed with Washington). Brooks was put in at ILB and Pepper was shifted to Banks' spot. Pepper wanted a new contract, but the Giants wouldn't give it to him and he complained about playing a new position, which he wasn't comfortable and wouldn't put up the numbers he wanted in order to get his contract and felt he was better than Bailey or Brooks. Along the way he threw in the NJ Broncos thing. Reeves decided it was time to send a message and cut him because he didn't want to play the position that the Giants wanted him to, and he gave the job to Corey Miller.
In the end, it was all about the money. Brooks and Bailey were given big money, so they had to play. Pepper wanted his money, either in 1993 or to set up for 1994. It became clear that the Giants and Pepper's interest didn't align anymore, so he had to go.
Then the 1993 record falsely lifted out expectations for a team that was in the process of being gutted. I always maintained that with another coach Brown could have been at least a decent QB. Reeves ruined him and then wrecked Hampton's career as well.
Cutting Simms was controversial to fans, but may have been the right call. It just should have been handled better so that publicly it didn't appear as brutal. I think if Simms were truly healthy, he would have taken the Cleveland job.
Horrible
I was also baffled that he no idea how to make use of Herschel Walker in 95. I realize Walker was old be the previous year in Philly he had over 500 yards rushing & receiving and was also 1 of the leagues top kick returners.
Hey, remember when Coleman Rudolph was our MLB? Good times!
Didn't like the Fassel but i thought he got very bad personnel to work with..Between changing the starter every year to not having any real offensive talent killed his momentum he had..
I drove down from Boston with my roommates to go to that game and the plan was to stay over by my parents house afterwards because of the long drive back and it being late. I was so pissed off after that game, that I couldn't sleep so we piled back in the car and they all slept while I drove back to Boston and got back to campus at 4 AM.
How could you leave out Tommy Maddox whom he brought in. I still remember the game when he sat Kent Graham or Dave Brown? And brought in Maddox. Then Tommy threw 4 2nd half INTs. He was fucking horrific judging players.
I always found it funny that there was a perception that Reeves didn't get enough input on personnel w/ the Giants. I'm sure GY wanted to cut Landeta and bring in Mike Horan. If they'd kept Landeta they wouldn't have had to waste a 3rd rd pick on Maynard.
Wasn't Pepper's fault. Would you listen to Rod Rust after having played for Bill B?
So, from, that aspect and considering that Reeves had to look at Dave Brown under center, I guess you can understand it. Plus, he drafted the guy.
But that four INT half versus the Eagles was brutal.
And, I do believe that in Denver that Maddox was being hailed as the replacement to Elway when Elway was going thru a mid carrer down time....which of course was turned around by a runnning game and Shanahan.
So many others like the lack of playing time someone like Jessie Armstead received (seemed like he was always making a good play) but we needed to make sure Mike Croel saw the field. Getting rid of Phil Simms, "allowing" Rodney Hampton to be fat and look like Natrone Means. Carlton Bailey and Arthur Marshall sucked some serious ass. Oh, and getting rid of Ed McCaffrey.
If I ever see Dan Reeves on the street I'll say "Hey nice suit...but you're an asshole".
I thought he was saying that about McCaffrey. Simms was coming off shoulder surgery, I thought that was enough of a concern on it's own to him being able to play.
So, for all my fans.....you have Tommy Maddox to blame for me.
Things changed when in June of 1994, George Young, who had no clue how to deal with the first year salary cap cut Phil Simms and thus the Dave Brown era began. Brown was drafted in 1992 when a different person was head coach. He was not a Reeves guy.
So the whole off season had been planned with Simms as the QB and then he was cut. Brown was not ready for prime time and struggled.
In 1995, the team seemed promising but the defense fell apart.
Always wanted to see what this team would have done with Simms in 1994 and Mike Sherrard healthy.
With Dave Brown and Kent Graham as QB's, any coach would have failed.
For all of the Broncos east BS, Mark Jackson played one season here. Michael Brooks was strong in '93 and '94. Brad Daluiso was here for a while and kicked well.
It wasn't that much of Broncos east. Actually it was not at all...except Tommy Maddux as a backup QB.
Even if we go 3-13?
He was not admired by fans or players.
Exact reaction I had ... thank goodness there never was such a thing as a "Dan Reeves era"
Bailey Gray
Who could forget Lurch bishop zataka,oben ,Brian Williams with one eye
Then they draft Cedrick Jones another great pick with one eye.
A lot better than this shit show we have right here today.
By a long shot.
Croel stunk. Horan stunk. Arthur Marshall stunk. Treadwell stunk. Maddox was historically awful. Jackson was done when he got here. Daluiso was average. Brooks was pretty good for about a year and then he went south too. That's a lot of guys they let him bring in.
He bought a little early credibility by getting back to the playoffs with the remains of the Parcells championship teams for one more time, and I think that bought him one or two more seasons with the G-men than he would have had otherwise. But after that, it was right into the toilet, and fast at that.
It seems that GIANTS ownership won't recognize that things are going wrong until the team hits rock bottom. We've seen that with RH (didn't take long with him), Reeves, Fassel, and now Reese/Coughlin.
The mike sherrard injury mid way through the 93 season was an absolute crusher for that team. I still remember the play like it was yesterday. Against the eagles, sherrard catches a pass over the middle and off he goes breaking free when all of a sudden his leg (hip) sort of just popped... Non contact.. He was never the same.
Sherrard was the best NYG receiver I'd ever seen up until then. He was a true game breaker that season and had great chemistry with Phil. Mark Jackson was fine as the #2. Once mike went down the offense went from elite to just good. I still think that was one of the most crippling injuries in NYG history. It rendered a great team just good.
Reeves refused to adjust.
In comes Wheatley and everyone knows sweep. He got killed but I blame Reeves.
the kid was a big back with speed
In comes Wheatley and everyone knows sweep. He got killed but I blame Reeves.
the kid was a big back with speed
Wheatley went on to Oakland and played well there! Wish we could've had that Wheatley! Reeves f%&ked with him while he was here!
Seriously, how are things different if Simms is here in '94? Keep in mind that '94 was the first year of the cap and the free agents the Giants had who were starters in '93 were:
Bob Kratch
Eric Moore
Bart Oates
Brian Williams (Resigned)
Myron Guyton
Greg Williams
Mark Collins
So for all of you living in fantasy land Reeves had a tough hand. I agree he was not great but considering the joke the team became in '91 - '92 he did a great job in '93 and even '94 with Dave Brown went 9-7.
I'm sure the Pepper Johnson dismissal is discussed above--haven't read it all. It was just one of many mistakes Reeves made in terms of personnel, but he WAS given a pretty lousy hand.
The Giants were somewhere around the Dallas 14 late in the 4th, down by 3, and a touchdown away from having a real shot of stealing the NFC East away from the heavily-favored Cowboys. .
Reeves went conservative and ran Hampton up the gut on third down instead of letting Simms take a shot at the endzone and maybe winning the game. I believe he called a run on second down too.
HE WAS TOO AFRAID TO TAKE A SHOT AT WINNING A HUGE GAME WITH PHIL SIMMS AT QB! HE PLAYED FOR THE TIE!
At least that was the perception by the fans and media. And you know what they say about "perception."
It was at that moment where our appreciation of how his competence as a coach revived our old warriors lost importance.
It was at that moment where we said "PARCELLS WOULD HAVE TAKEN A SHOT IN THAT SPOT!"
It was at that moment where we all shouted "F**KING REEVES!" at the TV screen.
It was at that moment that we all realized why Dan Reeves
never won, and never would win a championship.
Up until that exact moment in that exact drive, we liked him.
It still pisses me off when I think about it. He didn't give Simms a shot to win that game for him, the team, or for us.
Loser.
He also complained that players would be taken off the draft board due to questionable rationales.
Worst part of the Reeves era was when he was quoted as not re-signing because he needed the job or something to that effect. At the end, it got ugly for the franchise.
One mistake he corrected was not staring Jesse Armistead. If memory serves JA was only playing specials, then he got an opportunity and the rest is history. Reeves acknowledged he should have been starting sooner.
The 2008 team was a true loss for fans, that team should've won it all.
With Sherrard that team had a chance to be special. Without him they were just a very solid team but one that lacked a true play maker.
They barely lost without Sherrard. They might win with him. Granted, they still have to beat Dallas and probably San Fran in the postseason but what a different outlook if the Giants have a first round bye and don't have to travel.
They left everything on the field against the Vikes in the wild card game.