This off season the giants are going to have to rebuild the front 7. Should they rebuild for a 4/3 or a 3/4? If you are going to move to a 3/4 now is the time to do it.
The linebacker position has to be completely rebuilt no matter what way they go.
The d-line has a couple of players that do fit a 3/4. JPP is perfect for a 3/4 and hankins i think can play the nose tackle.
If the giants drafted another 3/4 DE and rebuild the LB position through the draft and free agency i can see them making this transition just as easily as rebuilding the 4/3
Of course this includes a new DC.
People hear will cry and whine that we dont have the personnel... we CLEARLY dont have the personnel for a good 4-3 either. we are just as close to a good 3-4 defense as we are 4-3.... so to me it comes down to what coordinator is available.
I predict that the Giants will move to a 3-4 and let JPP go. They'll say they let him walk because he didn't fit the new system. *grin*
As far as JPP is concerned, my fear is that they will resign him to a monster contract that he doesn't deserve.
None of the guys they have right now are built as 3-4 ends, except for Jenkins, which means you will need all new DE or You basically waste Moore since he was a hand down guy in college.
Get a competent DC
JPP gets lot of crap because all people want to look at is sack numbers. He is a 25 yr old top level DE. It is hard to find guys like him
1. JPP and Kiwi are gone
2. Moore can play rush OLB
3. You have someone/can get someone who plays NT
4. We are getting a new DC
I think #4 is assured. Fewell has never had a good defense here, despite last year's illusion.
I don't know who the NT is on this team. I think looking to Hankins to play NT would be a waste of his talents, but I do think he "could" do it. If you're looking for a guy to just take on double teams I think Kuhn can do that at a bargain basement price. There are different opinions on what makes a good NT. I think it all depends on scheme. Jay Ratliff played an effective NT for the Cowboys and he was on the lighter side.
I think Moore can play one of the OLB spots. Before people get too bent out of shape about him being a hand in the dirt guy, DeMarcus Ware was a hand in the dirt guy in a 3-4, and so was LT the vast majority of the time. So I don't think any disqualifies Moore from being that OLB in a 3-4. He seems to pass the eye test as being athletic enough.
Bromley might make a nice DE in a 3-4. Not sure about Ayers. He has moved inside on passing downs, but not sure about his ability to an every down DE in a 3-4.
I do think this all comes down to who a new DC would be. I would agree with the statement that finding 3-4 front seven players has become easier. More and more colleges run the 3-4 and it makes it easy to employ those tweener DE that are plentiful in college. I don't think one one system is any better than the other, it is just all dependent on available personnel. I like the 3-4 (if you have the personnel) because you can get more athleticism on the field, but if you don't have the horses, it is a disaster. I remember watching Dwight Freeney trying to play OLB his final year with the Colts, or Aaron Kapman in Green Bay. It was sad to watch very good DEs become average rush LBs. The Giants won't have this problem as they currently don't have any good DEs.
I wish JPP would turn it around, because then this would all be moot.
The question with JPP is do the Giants think he can return to double digit sack form. His in-line for his big contract years, but if he is not a 6-8 sack a year guy the Giants can't tie up that kind of money in an under-achieving player.
i would b all about drafting the kid from clemson in the top 10 if we do
i would b all about drafting the kid from clemson in the top 10 if we do
Not so sure Beasley has the strength you want at the point of attack. He is going to have to show an ability to engage the OT and hold the point of attack in run defense before I would be happy with the Giants taking him.
Hankins could play NT but is it the best use of his talents? I say no.
The key is and always has been a good NT (or two) but there are a lot of college tackles who can take on two blockers, clog the middle, but may not be great pass rushers.
A lot of LBs can fit in different spots in a 3-4 but may not be talented enough to efficiently perform at any position in a 4-3. Think about LBs who looked great in a 3-4 and didn't do squat when they moved to a 4-3. Recent Dolphins history is an example. The reverse doesn't happen too often. A guy who looks good in a 4-3 will always find a place in a 3-4.
Think back to the 15 years that the Giants played a 3-4 and name some LBs (other than LT, Carson and Banks) who could have performed as well in the 4-3 as the 3-4. And it wasn't because the Giants were only drafting LBs for a 3-4.
Hankins could play NT but is it the best use of his talents? I say no.
Yeah, I really think Hankins would be diminished in a 3-4. I just don't see him having the same impact as a 3-4 DE, and NT would be making one of your best DL a sacrificial lamb.
As much as I like the 3-4, if the Giants keep JPP (and if the decision was being made today I think they would...at the right price) I still think the team's best bet is to stick with the 4-3. Have to remember, Beason is expected back and if healthy he is a good 4-3 MLB. Fact remains, the Giants can't fix all of their problems in one offseason. With issues still to be dealt with on offense, a complete overhaul of the defense might be a bridge too far.
Also you dont seem to understand the responsibilities of linebackers in a 3-4...
And failure to realize that to effectively run a 3-4 defense you need two nose tackles.. the Giants might have one.. you need a minimum of 6-8 quality linebackers.. the Giants dont even have 3..
The Giants dont need to switch their defense.. they need to get better players in the defense they already run..
Yes, Moore would be an OLB, but no way JPP moves to DE in a 3-4. Not his skillset, and a waste of his talent/potential. You also don't give 3-4 DEs HUGE contracts and JPP no doubt knows that as well. I would be willing to bet that if JPP believed the Giants were headed for a 3-4 he would not sign here. Look at the deal KC just gave Allen Bailey, one of their 3-4 DEs. 4 years 25 MIL, 15 MIL gurantee, 10 MIL signing bonus. And he is a pretty good DE. JPP is looking for 3x that.
Not sure you can make the comparison between Linval Joseph and JPP from a contact perspective. That being said, JPP will be looking for top dollar, but unless he starts producing it is unlikely anyone is going to give him what he is looking for. His best bet is to sign a short term contract and reset his value. Unless he gets double digit sacks, no one is going to pay him that 80% of JJ Watt's contract he is shooting for.
Also you dont seem to understand the responsibilities of linebackers in a 3-4...
And failure to realize that to effectively run a 3-4 defense you need two nose tackles.. the Giants might have one.. you need a minimum of 6-8 quality linebackers.. the Giants dont even have 3..
The Giants dont need to switch their defense.. they need to get better players in the defense they already run..
Well said, right on.
You do have to wonder how much bulk he can add, but you also worry that it might take away from his overall athleticism. He impresses me too, I just have concerns about how his game translates.
I believe JPP would likely be a better 3-4 DE than 4-3.
We'd need to find another DE and a backup NT.
A 3-4 would likely mean Jenkins, Patterson and Kiwi are all gone.
At LB, I think beason could man one ILB spot and McClain the other with Kennard on the outside and Moore on the outside. Moore would need to play around 250 to 255.
Yada Yada Yada - this whole defense needs a complete and total overhaul, all 11 plus key backups. Purge, draft, UFA's. Big off-season coming.
to play a 4-3... u either need 2 stud DEs... multiple 2 way DTs... 3 safeties, a stud MLB, outside LBs that can cover...
oh wait we dont have any of that either.
thus making it absurd that people highlight the things with a 3-4 we dont have....
seems everyone on BBI is mr... dont bring JPP back tough guy... and at the same time refused to consider a 3-4 because of JPP.
we dont have any players where production or fit would shift so massively that would prevent us from changing to whatever system the best new D coordinator brings.