I will go on record saying that QB is one of the top priorities for NYG heading in to next year.
1 - Yes, i know there is plenty of season left. But the statement will stand.
2 - No, this is not an "emotional" reaction. I haven't been attached to this team in that way for quite some time...I am speaking from a perspective of a NFL fan that watches several games per week. Manning is a bottom half, possibly bottom third QB in this league. He isn't young. He is very expensive. He hurts the NYG future more than he helps.
I feel that QB is the least of our priorities. We have a lot of other areas before we think about QB.
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if you were in charge of Giants?
But if they have a high enough grade on a guy in round 1, I say you go for it.
So we get a new QB without upgrading the team....hell, it worked for David Carr and the Texans...errr. Joey Harrington and the Lions? Alright, Carson Palmer and the Bengals...
And be honest how good were we when we twice one the Super Bowls with Manning? He drains money from the rest of the team. We do not get our moneys worth
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In comment 11981805 Sonic Youth said:
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But its so fucking incredibly obvious that this line is responsible for this. How can you not see that?
With even an average line Eli would be able to make this O a top ten offense. There are no weapons outside OBJ, jennings is good, not great, but the line is ATROCIOUS. No run game at all.
Winston in NYC? Not a chance. It's either Amari Cooper or a trade down because this team has so many holes
I wouldn't be so sure. I think Jameis has the Jets written all over him.
I mean for us. If our green cousins want to take a chance on Jameis and his antics in NYC then God bless them
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In comment 11981808 oldutican said:
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if you were in charge of Giants?
But if they have a high enough grade on a guy in round 1, I say you go for it.
So we get a new QB without upgrading the team....hell, it worked for David Carr and the Texans...errr. Joey Harrington and the Lions? Alright, Carson Palmer and the Bengals...
Why wouldn't NYG improve the rest of the team? Not sure I see your point there.
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Our results over the last 4 years have been unacceptable. How long must the honeymoon last for people?
And be honest how good were we when we twice one the Super Bowls with Manning? He drains money from the rest of the team. We do not get our moneys worth
you are a fool.
That post is really terrible considering the only reason that second SB happened was because Eli (and three WRs) largely dragged a terrible team along for most of the season, to at least keep them in contention.
The Giants MORE than got their money's worth out of Manning and the only reason his cap hit is now in the @20M+s range, not the $16m AAV, is because of their own restructuring previously
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Our results over the last 4 years have been unacceptable. How long must the honeymoon last for people?
And be honest how good were we when we twice one the Super Bowls with Manning? He drains money from the rest of the team. We do not get our moneys worth
This. He's the QB of a 3-7 team, that stinks. He doesn't lift the level of play of those around him, this has always been my knock on Eli. He is not a leader of men.
Put Eli on that team, even with an aging A. Johnson and hamstring-issue A. Foster, and that team is looking at the playoffs, guaranteed.
You also realize that some in Boston wanted Brady gone after this year based on the early part of the year? That was before he went nuts the last few weeks. Same BS I'm hearing here: too immobile; needs too much help to play well; too old.
Eli is driving me nuts with his persistence in throwing to Randle but that's just who he is. If he ever wins another Super Bowl, he should tell the Giants to retire his game trousers so Giants fans can kiss his ass.
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In comment 11981830 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 11981808 oldutican said:
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if you were in charge of Giants?
But if they have a high enough grade on a guy in round 1, I say you go for it.
So we get a new QB without upgrading the team....hell, it worked for David Carr and the Texans...errr. Joey Harrington and the Lions? Alright, Carson Palmer and the Bengals...
Why wouldn't NYG improve the rest of the team? Not sure I see your point there.
You're saying we should draft a QB in the first round if we have him ranked high enough, yet every single position on this team, without exception, needs an upgrade...except QB. So why would we draft a QB in the first round when we need to address literally every other position? If not draft, then why would we trade valuable draft picks to upgrade this team for a QB? Do you expect a different result with a new QB and the same ole' team?
Todays offensive line was
Brown - god awful
Jerry - God awful
Walton - god awful
Richburg - playing out of position
Beatty - average to ok.
His WRs were:
Randle - awful
Parker - building tiki huts last year
OBJ - promising rookie
His TEs are
Donnell - doing good this year
Fells - out of football last year
Robinson - waste of a roster spot.
So you OBJ/Richburg/Donnell and possibly Beatty who wouldnt make the team of some of the top teams in the league. They wouldnt be bench players - they would flat out be cut if they played on Denver, NE, GB, amongst other teams.
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I have been down on this OL far more than others for over 2 years. And I was blasted for that too....ironic
who has ever contended that this o-line has been good on this board?
I've been down on Beatty since day one. I've been calling for upgrade at C and G for 2 years. Both of which I was blasted for prior to 2013.
2011 Giants - 27th
2009 Saints - 25th
2001 Patriots - 24th
2006 Colts - 21st
1976 Raiders - 18th
1987 Redskins - 18th
Lowest-Ranked Scoring D to Win Super Bowl
2011 Giants - 25th
2006 Colts - 23rd
2009 Saints - 20th
2007 Giants - 17th
1983 Raiders - 13th
1976 Raiders - 12th
The Giants had the worst Defense in the history of the Superbowl and won. Did the defense play great that day? Yes.... Did Eli look like a world kill? I think so. Fix our O-line and D-line and you fix most of our issues. And get rid of Fewell....
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
There are a couple posters who would argue otherwise just because, but largely, the OL sucking, including the interior, is biggest uniting topic on this board. The only issue in that regard is that people refuse to recognize when the problem actually started, pretending it just popped up in the second half of 2012, on and off.
Todays offensive line was
Brown - god awful
Jerry - God awful
Walton - god awful
Richburg - playing out of position
Beatty - average to ok.
His WRs were:
Randle - awful
Parker - building tiki huts last year
OBJ - promising rookie
His TEs are
Donnell - doing good this year
Fells - out of football last year
Robinson - waste of a roster spot.
So you OBJ/Richburg/Donnell and possibly Beatty who wouldnt make the team of some of the top teams in the league. They wouldnt be bench players - they would flat out be cut if they played on Denver, NE, GB, amongst other teams.
I agree, I think it is hard to argue that this is a good team.
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
Plus you have a terrible defense. You gotta take premium players in the first 3 rounds. We need help at WR, OL, Safety, DL, LB..... and you want to waste a pick on a guy who might take 3 years to develop.
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
And I keep telling you that we'd be wasting precious resources on a QB when we should be spending it upgrading the rest of the team.
And again, even if Eli isn't, WHO IS AN UPGRADE? Who should be the starter?
And hopefully I'll have an answer for you by spring time. If I don't....I won't just throw a name out there for the sake of change.
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Are you seriously trying to argue that Eli's supporting cast is better than Brady's?
Not even close.
My argument is that Brady makes others better. Thats why he is considered one of the best of all time. To be honest...trying to compare anything Brady does to Manning in an effort to say Manning is a big time QB is foolish.
Let me ask you this...do you think Manning is a big time QB?
Fair question, no I don't. Good QB but not great. 2nd Tier below his brother, Brady, and Rodgers. But does that mean I am ready to move on, hell no. Especially not for a rookie.
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
Sy, of course having a QB with less of a cap hit would make it easier to upgrade the other positions.....but then we won't have a QB to get them the ball.
This year was a failure, due to poor play and injuries.
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Where do I say keep this same old team?
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
Sy, of course having a QB with less of a cap hit would make it easier to upgrade the other positions.....but then we won't have a QB to get them the ball.
In my opinion it is too premature to say that. We don't know who will be available months from now.
And hopefully I'll have an answer for you by spring time. If I don't....I won't just throw a name out there for the sake of change.
Who gives us a better chance of winning a Super Bowl: Eli or Mariota? Eli or Winston? Eli or anyone else available?
If you want to upgrade, you actually need to have an upgrade in mind...or, at the very least, that player has to be so bad that anyone would be an upgrade. See: Jerry, John.
Sy, I just don't think you are going to see that any time soon. The team has far too many holes and Eli still has good years left. If Eli was 35-36, I could see it.
But again you've missed my point which was if there ends up being a grade high enough at QB, I think they should go after it.
Dismissing both of our opinions about Mariota....say the NYG has a top 3 overall grade on him, and he ends up being available when NYG is on the clock. It's hard to pass on that considering the economic and long term future. Manning and his salary may not be better than a top 3 overall prospect that is a lot cheaper...opening up money to spend on OL, LB, WR, TE...etc. Agree or disagree?
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In comment 11981911 Sy'56 said:
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Where do I say keep this same old team?
The drafting needs to be much better than it has been. Getting a rookie QB will not fix everything, I know.
But it is a lot harder to upgrade a roster when your QB has such a high cap number. Agree or disagree?
Do you think Manning is a big time QB?
Sy, of course having a QB with less of a cap hit would make it easier to upgrade the other positions.....but then we won't have a QB to get them the ball.
In my opinion it is too premature to say that. We don't know who will be available months from now.
I Asked earlier to no reply. Name a player that was better without Eli? If Eli didn't make people better there should be 4-5 guys that have left him that are better when they left. Visanthe Shiancoe is the only one I know that was statistically better. Anyone else?
But again you've missed my point which was if there ends up being a grade high enough at QB, I think they should go after it.
Dismissing both of our opinions about Mariota....say the NYG has a top 3 overall grade on him, and he ends up being available when NYG is on the clock. It's hard to pass on that considering the economic and long term future. Manning and his salary may not be better than a top 3 overall prospect that is a lot cheaper...opening up money to spend on OL, LB, WR, TE...etc. Agree or disagree?
If we have a top 3 pick, and we dont take Armani Cooper, Reese should be fired at the spot.
You nede dynamic playmakers in the NFL. WE HAVE 1!!!!!!!!!
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
But again you've missed my point which was if there ends up being a grade high enough at QB, I think they should go after it.
Dismissing both of our opinions about Mariota....say the NYG has a top 3 overall grade on him, and he ends up being available when NYG is on the clock. It's hard to pass on that considering the economic and long term future. Manning and his salary may not be better than a top 3 overall prospect that is a lot cheaper...opening up money to spend on OL, LB, WR, TE...etc. Agree or disagree?
If they think Mariota compares to Luck, then I agree. If not and I don't think anyone is comparing him to Andrew Luck, then no, they shouldn't draft him.
You can't expect Coughlin to break in a new QB at his age, unless we're talking about a three year extension. Now, if we get a new coach, I think there will be a re-evaluation, but as others have said, we're just awful at too many areas. Even getting a Brady or Wilson wouldn't help this team.
The best example would be Eli's father, Archie. I think he was the most talented QB ever to play, from what I saw of him...he was the whole package, great arm, smart, could run like the wind. Put him on a team that stunk (the Saints at that time), and he was dogmeat.
Oh, and how much better did we get when we traded Tarkington? He stunk in NY...not so much on a team with talent like the Vikings of that time. What we're likely to face after Eli is a whole lot of Dave Browns and Kent Grahams before we get a real franchise QB again.
After Simms was cut, I wasn't sure we'd ever be that good at the position again...and every high rated QB prospect is a roll of the dice (remember Art Schliester and JaMarcus Russell??)
I understand Sy's point. Eli right now is not worth $20 mill in any way shape or form. Not even $12 mill. I would not extend him.
I also would not offer JPP anything more than $5 mill per. Not sure he had a atckle today.
It'd be a mistake. Cooper is a great prospect, but he is not a top 3 prospect. I actually think DGB is better and more talented than him, but he obviously has a lot of character issues.
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
Extend him for another 2 or 3 years
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Eli over Mariota. Eli over Winston. Agree Agree Agree
But again you've missed my point which was if there ends up being a grade high enough at QB, I think they should go after it.
Dismissing both of our opinions about Mariota....say the NYG has a top 3 overall grade on him, and he ends up being available when NYG is on the clock. It's hard to pass on that considering the economic and long term future. Manning and his salary may not be better than a top 3 overall prospect that is a lot cheaper...opening up money to spend on OL, LB, WR, TE...etc. Agree or disagree?
If they think Mariota compares to Luck, then I agree. If not and I don't think anyone is comparing him to Andrew Luck, then no, they shouldn't draft him.
I know you aren't saying this....but it almost sounds like you are under the thought process that Eli should be the man until the best QB prospect ever is available when NYG is on the clock.
Same question to you...what do you do with Manning after 2015? Or do you just overlook that part of the equation and hope for the best? If you ask me...I say get the new QB in here in 2015 offseason so he at least can get reps with this team ASAP, even if he's the guy in 2016.
Guess what people, he isnt as good as them. Neither are the other 26 QBs in the league. Theres a reason why they can do things the others cant.
Guess what people, he isnt as good as them. Neither are the other 26 QBs in the league. Theres a reason why they can do things the others cant.
Exactly!
Evans is having a Rookie of the Year caliber season. Far exceeded my expectations 11 weeks in to his career. I believe I had him graded as a 2nd rounder...but he is playing like a top 10 overall guy.
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understood and I respect your views.
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
Extend him for another 2 or 3 years
At what price? Is it possible that price tag will make it harder to upgrade the OL, LB, WR, TE spots?
half this site said "pass, can't separate" or "remote thrower" or other equally idiotic comments - someone probably has them saved.
It makes me think these people with all these great opinions about what the Giants should or will do are more clueless than I thought.