I will go on record saying that QB is one of the top priorities for NYG heading in to next year.
1 - Yes, i know there is plenty of season left. But the statement will stand.
2 - No, this is not an "emotional" reaction. I haven't been attached to this team in that way for quite some time...I am speaking from a perspective of a NFL fan that watches several games per week. Manning is a bottom half, possibly bottom third QB in this league. He isn't young. He is very expensive. He hurts the NYG future more than he helps.
Guess what people, he isnt as good as them. Neither are the other 26 QBs in the league. Theres a reason why they can do things the others cant.
But the money....
I also believe this
half this site said "pass, can't separate" or "remote thrower" or other equally idiotic comments - someone probably has them saved.
It makes me think these people with all these great opinions about what the Giants should or will do are more clueless than I thought.
I know professional scouts that said those things about him as well. There were a lot of guys that thought his production was scheme/situation-based in college. I wasn't wild about him but he had legit ball skills and movement ability to go with that size.
I don't think we are talking about an elite WR here...but maybe a guy like Plaxico or VIncent Jackson down the road.
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and tell us what he cant do, hes compared to 3 people. Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers.
Guess what people, he isnt as good as them. Neither are the other 26 QBs in the league. Theres a reason why they can do things the others cant.
But the money....
But the drafting....
If you get rid of Eli before Reese, an investigation should be done.
Guys like Steve Smith, Boss, Manningham, Ballard, Nicks (so far)....have done nothing elsewhere. But that was a few years ago...and I simply think Manning is no longer that guy we saw a few years back. Thats all.
What will cripple this team is being poor evaluators of said talent and giving the money to the wrong talent.
Just as it's been for the past few years.
Guys like Steve Smith, Boss, Manningham, Ballard, Nicks (so far)....have done nothing elsewhere. But that was a few years ago...and I simply think Manning is no longer that guy we saw a few years back. Thats all.
I believe if they get him a decent line we get back the good Eli. He hates pressure just like every other QB. Look at Brady and Peyton when people are in there face all the time: see SB XLII and SB XLIV.
The team needs talent, which is why I am against moving on from Manning. Whoever you bring in next year doesnt make you a contender anyways.
Football is a fickle game. One year you are shit, the next year you win the division (2012 Skins and 2013 Eagles). A few players make a world of difference. I mean look at the 2nd/3rd rounders of previous years and how bad they are.
robinson, Hosley, Sintim, Austin, Randle, Beckum, Barden, etc.
They guys arent even role players. These are the picks that you dont have to hit home runs with, but you have to get productive players. We dont have them. So even if bringing in a new QB, what will that do?
I mean we had a huge need at LB, Chris Borland is sitting there. We take a guy who cant play over Kuhn. I mean seriously, where the hell are we going if Reese continues to fuck this up?
The NFL is back and forth in more ways than one across the league, I also agree there. If I had to choose ONE big change, it would be with the guys that control the personnel (both FA and draft). But even then...the long term (and by long term I mean 2+ years) outlook isn't good. With that in mind I look at the age and cost of Manning...it's tough to say he should be around more than another season.
You will know more about OT/OG when the 2nd round comes about. I would be in favor of moving Pugh inside and draft a stud OT as well.
Now Eli wants absurd money on an extension, then you pass and move on. But what if he takes a friendly deal that gives us flexibility? Do you wanna pass on that?
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
Honestly, I would extend him until he is 37-38. Pay him his big money up front, that way the Giants can move on with minimal cap impact when Eli is beyond 38. If the next Andrew Luck was out there I could see an argument, but right now it seems like the only prudent thing to do, especially given all the problems with the roster.
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get a new QB, keep the same shitty players around him and have the feel of the 1990s Bengals/Browns were they are picking top 5 every year.
Todays offensive line was
Brown - god awful
Jerry - God awful
Walton - god awful
Richburg - playing out of position
Beatty - average to ok.
His WRs were:
Randle - awful
Parker - building tiki huts last year
OBJ - promising rookie
His TEs are
Donnell - doing good this year
Fells - out of football last year
Robinson - waste of a roster spot.
So you OBJ/Richburg/Donnell and possibly Beatty who wouldnt make the team of some of the top teams in the league. They wouldnt be bench players - they would flat out be cut if they played on Denver, NE, GB, amongst other teams.
I agree, I think it is hard to argue that this is a good team.
Well when you spell it out like that, it looks even worse than I thought. What a talent deficient offense.
You will know more about OT/OG when the 2nd round comes about. I would be in favor of moving Pugh inside and draft a stud OT as well.
Now Eli wants absurd money on an extension, then you pass and move on. But what if he takes a friendly deal that gives us flexibility? Do you wanna pass on that?
As of right now I say no to Mariota and Winston but I still have a lot of tape to watch there...so don't hold me to it yet.
I am all for drafting another position with their probable top 10 selection spot. Again it is all about the grades...but that doesn't mean I just shove the QB situation under the rug.
I would be all for Cooper in round 1, OL in round 2. And some money being spent on OL in the FA market. But the second a QB value becomes available, I would go for it. That was not my opinion last year. Thats all I am saying but as usual a bunch of emotional and attached fans took it otherwise.
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understood and I respect your views.
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
Honestly, I would extend him until he is 37-38. Pay him his big money up front, that way the Giants can move on with minimal cap impact when Eli is beyond 38. If the next Andrew Luck was out there I could see an argument, but right now it seems like the only prudent thing to do, especially given all the problems with the roster.
Understood. I will respectfully disagree that he should be given a 4-5 year extension at this point.
Right now he has the weight of the world on his shoulders and probably feels it's up to him to force a win for the Gmen.
Outside of today's weekly debacle, Eli has had a good year.
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In comment 11981995 Sy'56 said:
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understood and I respect your views.
What do you think NYG should do with Manning's contract? He is a FA after next season. He will be 35 after next season.
Honestly, I would extend him until he is 37-38. Pay him his big money up front, that way the Giants can move on with minimal cap impact when Eli is beyond 38. If the next Andrew Luck was out there I could see an argument, but right now it seems like the only prudent thing to do, especially given all the problems with the roster.
Understood. I will respectfully disagree that he should be given a 4-5 year extension at this point.
If I felt we could realistically upgrade (get a Brady, Rodgers, Peyton or Luck) then I would agree with you, but those guys are once in a decade type talents and none are available. We have to deal with what is, not what we wish it to be. Fact remains, Eli is a step below the Elite QBs in the league, but still a cut above the rest.
Right now he has the weight of the world on his shoulders and probably feels it's up to him to force a win for the Gmen.
Outside of today's weekly debacle, Eli has had a good year.
Agreed, lost in all this is the fact that up until today Eli was having the season we all wanted to see from him. This is all a bunch of reactionary short-sightedness.
I'd have no problem with Mara / Reese telling Eli to " prove it" in 2015 before getting a big contract.
When the OL has been stabilized, then look at other positions.
I'd have no problem with Mara / Reese telling Eli to " prove it" in 2015 before getting a big contract.
Would agree, fix the OL. But I think Reese and Co. will give Eli a new deal, if for no other reason than to lower his impact on the cap in 2015 so they can make more moves in the off-season.
Nobody thought those guys were elite when they came out. Just like we can't say these QBs in the upcoming class aren't elite. My point stands...a bigger priority needs to be put on upgrading the QB position. For the tenth time today...that does not mean Manning is cut this offseason. It does not mean a 1st round QB is selected. But IF the grade is there.....pull the trigger.
The priorities are: WR (Randle is mediocre at best and VC is a ?. We need some size at WR), RT (move Pugh inside-we need someone for RT that can move the pile), RB (Need a faster type back to complement Williams), LB (no comments necessary). Those are the priorities. However, the number one priority should be getting rid of that waste of space, Marc Ross. He is the worst draft talent evaluator in the NFL.
Nobody thought those guys were elite when they came out. Just like we can't say these QBs in the upcoming class aren't elite. My point stands...a bigger priority needs to be put on upgrading the QB position. For the tenth time today...that does not mean Manning is cut this offseason. It does not mean a 1st round QB is selected. But IF the grade is there.....pull the trigger.
Not sure how those examples matter. Admittedly I am not sold on Mariotta or Winston, but if a top QB was falling and the Giants had a luxury pick then sure, but they don't. Green Bay drafted Rodgers as the heir apparent to Favre when the team did not have a lot of holes. The Pats drafted Brady as on after though. If you are just hoping the Giants get lucky in the draft, then sure, so do I. But the idea that we should prepare to move on from Eli based on the Rodgers or Brady scenario is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Probably not going to happen and you can't plan for it.
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Brady was a 6th round pick. Rodgers was closer to a 2nd round pick than he was the top 3 overall.
Nobody thought those guys were elite when they came out. Just like we can't say these QBs in the upcoming class aren't elite. My point stands...a bigger priority needs to be put on upgrading the QB position. For the tenth time today...that does not mean Manning is cut this offseason. It does not mean a 1st round QB is selected. But IF the grade is there.....pull the trigger.
Not sure how those examples matter. Admittedly I am not sold on Mariotta or Winston, but if a top QB was falling and the Giants had a luxury pick then sure, but they don't. Green Bay drafted Rodgers as the heir apparent to Favre when the team did not have a lot of holes. The Pats drafted Brady as on after though. If you are just hoping the Giants get lucky in the draft, then sure, so do I. But the idea that we should prepare to move on from Eli based on the Rodgers or Brady scenario is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Probably not going to happen and you can't plan for it.
Not at all. But the point is if the value is there...it is foolish to pass on. QB makes the biggest difference on a team and there ir no debating that. A QB's salary can also prevent the team from upgrading the rest of the roster...there is no debating that either. With those facts in mind...spending a pick on a guy that is valued there can't be overlooked in this situation.
Look at Wilson and Kaepernick. Kaepernick got a huge payday and Wilson is next, and neither of those guys are nearly as good as Eli Manning as passers.
Their teams have to build around their contracts to.
Paying the QB tax is just the facts of life in today's NFL, period.
Look at what the Bears paid Jay Cutler.
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In comment 11982243 Sy'56 said:
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Brady was a 6th round pick. Rodgers was closer to a 2nd round pick than he was the top 3 overall.
Nobody thought those guys were elite when they came out. Just like we can't say these QBs in the upcoming class aren't elite. My point stands...a bigger priority needs to be put on upgrading the QB position. For the tenth time today...that does not mean Manning is cut this offseason. It does not mean a 1st round QB is selected. But IF the grade is there.....pull the trigger.
Not sure how those examples matter. Admittedly I am not sold on Mariotta or Winston, but if a top QB was falling and the Giants had a luxury pick then sure, but they don't. Green Bay drafted Rodgers as the heir apparent to Favre when the team did not have a lot of holes. The Pats drafted Brady as on after though. If you are just hoping the Giants get lucky in the draft, then sure, so do I. But the idea that we should prepare to move on from Eli based on the Rodgers or Brady scenario is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Probably not going to happen and you can't plan for it.
Not at all. But the point is if the value is there...it is foolish to pass on. QB makes the biggest difference on a team and there ir no debating that. A QB's salary can also prevent the team from upgrading the rest of the roster...there is no debating that either. With those facts in mind...spending a pick on a guy that is valued there can't be overlooked in this situation.
Well the Giants did that with Nasib. If a QB with a first round grade slips I think the Giants would be willing to take him, but I highly doubt they will be considering it in the 1st round this year. Far too many problems in the trenches to spend a 1st round pick on a QB who won't play.
This team's problems are not at the QB position. Just about everywhere else...but not the QB.
He has 4 WR's that can stretch a defense, a good back, and a decent offensive line.
Other than Beckham, name a Giants' offensive player that gets playing time on the Packers.
cruz and maybe donnell
Eli is not the problem.
This team could really become solid NEXT YEAR on offense if we just go out and get the best UFA RT available; hope that Pugh and Richburg develop at OG and OC; and, Schwartz rounds out at the other OG. Beatty is serviceable.
Draft an OT round #1 and let him learn / play a bit his rookie year. Then we need to load up on defense cause we have none.
What team is going to offer a big deal his way? Just not going to happen. Offer him what his ability and performance commands..... And that is a mediocre deal that allows us to spend and retain other positional talent
Yup
Second, even if you don't love Eli, the Giants have far too many legitimate holes on their roster to spend any time or effort even scouting QBs this year. Third, there still is the possibility they are willing and intending to go with Nassib in a couple of years.
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Eli over Mariota. Eli over Winston. Agree Agree Agree
But again you've missed my point which was if there ends up being a grade high enough at QB, I think they should go after it.
Dismissing both of our opinions about Mariota....say the NYG has a top 3 overall grade on him, and he ends up being available when NYG is on the clock. It's hard to pass on that considering the economic and long term future. Manning and his salary may not be better than a top 3 overall prospect that is a lot cheaper...opening up money to spend on OL, LB, WR, TE...etc. Agree or disagree?
If we have a top 3 pick, and we dont take Armani Cooper, Reese should be fired at the spot.
You nede dynamic playmakers in the NFL. WE HAVE 1!!!!!!!!!
Yeah because Atlanta who took Julio Jones has won so many Superbowls right? They had White Jones and Gonzales. Hard to get better than those 3.
Cooper is a wasted pick not because he won't be great but because the Giants OL sucks balls. As well as the LBs and the DL right now looks little better.
Atlanta which also ignored both its OL and DL is going to suck for a while. Justine the Giants if hey don't fix the OL. We took OBJ. CRUZ will be back. Too many holes and another WR?
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Check out the Packers.
He has 4 WR's that can stretch a defense, a good back, and a decent offensive line.
Other than Beckham, name a Giants' offensive player that gets playing time on the Packers.
cruz and maybe donnell
Cruz most certainly could not start over Cobb. Are you insane?
What team is going to offer a big deal his way? Just not going to happen. Offer him what his ability and performance commands..... And that is a mediocre deal that allows us to spend and retain other positional talent
I am not certain that there is not another NFL team that would offer Eli big bucks.
In fact, I think there would be many.
They have bigger problems than QB almost everywhere on the field. And no QB is going to win with this shit team.
That being said, here are some realities...
1. There is no QB just sitting out there, not starting for another team that is better than Eli right now.
2. Eli making $20 million is far too much considering the rest of the holes on this team.
3. We NEED for Eli to take a cut down to $10mm so that we can sign at least 2 quality O linemen. If we don't do this, we will watch a repeat of this season next year.
4. I think the only way it makes sense for any of this crazy talk about moving Eli off of this team is this..... If some other team comes knocking asking for a trade and we are able to get a younger guy like Tannehil who probably makes a lot less and can make plays in this league. THEN, MAYBE... However, I dont see a team like the Dolphins or any other team for that matter looking to trade for Eli. Especially not with the $20 million price tag.
5. I think our pass plays are taking too long to develop. Eli is getting nailed and our WRs are not even making their breaks yet. There is typically not much open over the middle. Very few crossing patterns at the 12-15 yard mark. We also STILL have not figured out how to successfully run the screen. This combined with a cement footed Eli means the pass rush is coming after him with their ears pinned back.
Again... Eli is not going to be a problem for us if we give him a running game and an O-line that can block long enough for him to make a smart decision with the ball.
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Cruz most certainly could not start over Cobb. Are you insane?
Agreed. In fact, about a month ago I argued that right now (before Cruz got injured) Golden Tate is better than Cruz. We tend to think of Victor as the same amazing player that we saw two years ago. He isn't unfortunately. However, he is still a very productive WR for us. Just not a top performer in the league anymore
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In comment 11982353 CGiants07 said:
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Cruz most certainly could not start over Cobb. Are you insane?
Agreed. In fact, about a month ago I argued that right now (before Cruz got injured) Golden Tate is better than Cruz. We tend to think of Victor as the same amazing player that we saw two years ago. He isn't unfortunately. However, he is still a very productive WR for us. Just not a top performer in the league anymore
I hate to agree...but it is probably true.
the slot receiver (like Cobb or Cruz) or any receiver really is better when there is a receiver like Jordy Nelson lining up opposite them.
Like Cruz had with a healthy Nicks.
I like the prospects this offense has with one more weapon and a rebuilt OL.
the slot receiver (like Cobb or Cruz) or any receiver really is better when there is a receiver like Jordy Nelson lining up opposite them.
Like Cruz had with a healthy Nicks.
I like the prospects this offense has with one more weapon and a rebuilt OL.
As do I. Despite all the Eli negativity going around today. I am excited to see what a 2015 NYG Offense with a running game and one more passing game playmaker can do!
Agree 100%. The third option is the key because then you get mismatches. Defenses can take one guy away, maybe two, but most can't take away 3 and you're left with a mismatch IMO.
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and pair him with OBJ, Donnell at TE, and then Cruz on the slot - thats scary options. Cruz can be taken out of the game. But if you bring in stud WRs.... he becomes much, much more dangerous and productive. RR aint making Cruz better.
Agree 100%. The third option is the key because then you get mismatches. Defenses can take one guy away, maybe two, but most can't take away 3 and you're left with a mismatch IMO.
Exactly. Teams are going to shadow both OBJ and even Donnell. Leaving Parker and Randle left 1 on 1 all game. Randle made a few nice plays, but when push came to shove - he couldnt make a play that helped us win. This is a weekly thing. The fade in the end zone still blows my mind. Never even went up to grab. Let it come to him.