What is laughable is this weak call out thread on the draft contributor at BBI. It's barely 1/2 of the season. Let's call out a guy for not ranking a rookie WR higher. Yeah, that's laughable.
because he apparently didn't think Evans would be the next big thing, he doesn't know what he's talking about? This board is crazy sometimes. I am so tired of hearing about specific draft players this year. Donald, Evans, Martin, Borland. It's just old. We have Beckham. Let's focus, for once, on discussing what we can add around him.
What is laughable is this weak call out thread on the draft contributor at BBI. It's barely 1/2 of the season. Let's call out a guy for not ranking a rookie WR higher. Yeah, that's laughable.
That's the point. He had Evans rated as his 7th best WR, behind the likes of Corey Latimer. He had him ranked similarly to 3rd and 4th rounders. Based on some nonsense of him feasting only on broken plays. This isn't his only wrong call. Just the most wrong...until his Eli post today.
More than that, it's that he's hailed on BBI as being some all-knowing draftnik - based on nothing more than typing a whole bunch of bunk and attaching rankings to it. It's treated as gospel.
who is claiming Eli is essentially done (Sy) and needs to be replaced is the same guy who said Mike Evans is a 3rd round WR.
And therefore lacks credibility.
I think the Eli thread from Sy is more lame than this one.
Before today Eli was for many reasons beyond stats having his best season as a pro or one of them.
He has a bad game and now he can't play anymore.
I would hope someone who sells themself as a amateur? scout wouldn't be so short-sighted or reactionary, it causes you to question many of his other opinions.
You really are one of the most bitter, unhappy people here.
I have been asked by Eric to help contribute to the draft section of the website, that is all. Repeatedly I say that I do not hold myself higher than anyone else, nor will I ever. Not sure where the bitter-ness began...but if I ever did anything to offend you, I can be sure that it was not intentional.
As for Evans...I did not think he was elite coming out. I thought he could have been a Burress/Vincent Jackson type guy if he was put in to the right system. You are wrong about where I had him graded....I believe he finished with a 78...which is a 2nd round grade. And I think he ended up #34 overall on my board. So by no means (at all) did I think he was a bad player.
Lastly...if you are going to spend time looking for all my misses, go for it. I'll even help you out with a few, so don't be afraid to ask. But if you want to spend that precious time doing so...or criticizing the OPINIONS of others...how about you give some credit where it's due? Give it a shot...it may make you a happier person because what you do is actually pathetic. People like my draft reports? So what...does it actually keep you up at night? You act like it does. Get a grip man and realize what you are doing here. I know PRO SCOUTS that work for PRO TEAMS that didn't like Evans. It is an opinion.
If you want to make call out threads...you have far better examples at your disposal than Evans. Again if you want some help with those, I'll be more than happy to share.
who is claiming Eli is essentially done (Sy) and needs to be replaced is the same guy who said Mike Evans is a 3rd round WR.
And therefore lacks credibility.
I think the Eli thread from Sy is more lame than this one.
Before today Eli was for many reasons beyond stats having his best season as a pro or one of them.
He has a bad game and now he can't play anymore.
I would hope someone who sells themself as a amateur? scout wouldn't be so short-sighted or reactionary, it causes you to question many of his other opinions.
Keep the false stuff out of the discussion please....esepcially if you want to attach my name it. I had Evans as a 2nd round player...a few spots out of round 1.
Nobody, including Reese is an all-knowing anything when it comes to drafting college players.
Sy knows college football and the NFL draft. He has his opinions and many on BBI often disagree with him. Nobody here thinks he's all knowing and I don't think he comes off to the readers of BBI this way.
You choose to cherry pick a player after half a season and call him out? You're a douchebag. Plain and simple.
You assigned similar grades to OL prospects whom you projected to go on day 3. Regardless, you projected him as the 7th best WR and the 34th best player overall. Fine. The guy ended up being a top 10 pick and is have a stellar season. Perhaps those PRO SCOUTS you're intimate with didn't know what they were watching either. Guy is a beast.
You assigned similar grades to OL prospects whom you projected to go on day 3. Regardless, you projected him as the 7th best WR and the 34th best player overall. Fine. The guy ended up being a top 10 pick and is have a stellar season. Perhaps those PRO SCOUTS you're intimate with didn't know what they were watching either. Guy is a beast.
You are acting like a pathetic loser. There isn't a scout in the world (the best every or a lowly amateur like me) that hits on even 75% of his grades. It's fun and interesting to discuss though...and see where you were right and wrong. Don't take it for more than what it's worth...which is just discussion.
Which is worse? The fact that I had him #7 overall at WR (in arguably the best WR class ever) or that you are making such a concrete statement 11 games in to his career?
Nobody, including Reese is an all-knowing anything when it comes to drafting college players.
Sy knows college football and the NFL draft. He has his opinions and many on BBI often disagree with him. Nobody here thinks he's all knowing and I don't think he comes off to the readers of BBI this way.
You choose to cherry pick a player after half a season and call him out? You're a douchebag. Plain and simple.
No one, including Reese is perfect. And Reese takes all sorts of shit for it. Probably why an amateur scout - with no CV or perceivable aptitude for it - should probably not post lengthy and wrong dissertations on what the Giants "should have done".
But hey...maybe I'll leave BBI and never give my draft opinions again. Lets see if that is what Eric and the rest of the board wants. Or maybe you can just make the effort to not be the internet tough guy...which again is probably one of the most pathetic traits you can have here. Again you don't look savvy, you don't look smart. You just come across unhappy and agenda-based.
We've lost quite a few good posters over the years due to thin skin and a handful of assholes.
I for one appreciate your opinions and write-ups on draft prospects. I realize that your analysis often differs from from the parroted view of many so called experts. I'd seriously hear your honest opinions (right or wrong) rather than have you dress up consensus information and re-post.
BTW: I disagree with your Eli thread today but I forgive you. :>)
Adds a lot to this site and as a draftnik myself, I appreciate all that he brings here. Scouts have different opinions on all the players. If you want to find fault with Sy's opinions and results of his ratings, we should all take a long look at Jerry Reese's instead.
I disagree with the Eli thread, but no one is always right in pre-draft analysis. I do think though the people who parrot what they read (Mike Evans can't separate and will struggle in the NFL) are the worst form of life, made even worse when they argue or debate that opinion as if its fact.
and one of the pet peeves I have with the Kiper's, Mayocks, McShays, Colin@GBN etc is they make their cases with player rankings and mock drafts and they could be habitually wrong or off base yet no one holds them accountable for it, since there is no repurcussions.
Not saying Sy needs to be accountable, but he should stand by his opinions or just say he was wrong.
Evans has a good shot at becoming an elite WR. He's in a crap offense (no running game, poor OL, not many other weapons) with a crap QB and he's the first rookie WR with three straight 100 yard games with a TD in each since Randy Moss. he's on pace for over 80 catches for 1200 yards and 10 TD's. As a rookie.
and he had Evans ranked 7th overall, with 5 of the guys ahead of him already producing big time in their first NFL seasons. What am I missing?
I remember when everyone here convinced themselves Mario Manningham was the steal of the 2008 draft over Jordy Nelson. After all MM had the more immediate impact.
I think his Kelvin Benjamin analysis is much worse than Evans.
Agreed. I was off on Benjamin a lot more than I was Evans. But Benjamin didn't go for 200 yards today...so MO thought he was a better example for the day.
I disagree with the Eli thread, but no one is always right in pre-draft analysis. I do think though the people who parrot what they read (Mike Evans can't separate and will struggle in the NFL) are the worst form of life, made even worse when they argue or debate that opinion as if its fact.
and one of the pet peeves I have with the Kiper's, Mayocks, McShays, Colin@GBN etc is they make their cases with player rankings and mock drafts and they could be habitually wrong or off base yet no one holds them accountable for it, since there is no repurcussions.
Not saying Sy needs to be accountable, but he should stand by his opinions or just say he was wrong.
Evans has a good shot at becoming an elite WR. He's in a crap offense (no running game, poor OL, not many other weapons) with a crap QB and he's the first rookie WR with three straight 100 yard games with a TD in each since Randy Moss. he's on pace for over 80 catches for 1200 yards and 10 TD's. As a rookie.
the past two years I have created threads about the players I was wrong about. Keep that in mind please. I don't need to do that.
is great Sy, I just disagree with the Eli thread. I tried to respectfully disagree, but if I was disrespectful I apologize.
I like the fact you're willing to put your stuff out there knowing people will criticize and I for one don't get the chance to watch a ton of college ball, so it's one of the first places i look to start getting familiar with the draft.
So thanks.
I don't mind telling you when you were wrong (LOL), but I also like reading your stuff.
Sy is always a good read and his grades are respected here. He knows what he's doing, spends a great amount of time posting his grades on bbi and we all appreciate it.
Meanwhile, you feel the need to call him out because Mike Evans had a good game today. Against the Redskins.
is great Sy, I just disagree with the Eli thread. I tried to respectfully disagree, but if I was disrespectful I apologize.
I like the fact you're willing to put your stuff out there knowing people will criticize and I for one don't get the chance to watch a ton of college ball, so it's one of the first places i look to start getting familiar with the draft.
So thanks.
I don't mind telling you when you were wrong (LOL), but I also like reading your stuff.
I love to discuss man. If we all agreed it wouldn't be fun...some can't comprehend that. Usually I don't give them attention but every now and then a MO type guy needs to be put in place. Sad but true.
Question for you. When you look back on your draft results after having enough time to see the players perform in the NFL, do you takes notes on how/where you went right/wrong?
Over the years do you learn from mistakes and hits and become better at draft scouting? Or, is every player so different that you really can't find commonalities that caused you to make a great or not so great rating?
I'm curious if this can be a science or only a crap-shoot.
Question for you. When you look back on your draft results after having enough time to see the players perform in the NFL, do you takes notes on how/where you went right/wrong?
Over the years do you learn from mistakes and hits and become better at draft scouting? Or, is every player so different that you really can't find commonalities that caused you to make a great or not so great rating?
I'm curious if this can be a science or only a crap-shoot.
Yes I certainly do keep track of where I went right and wrong. I've altered the amount of value I put in to specific elements of a position. For the most part, at the end of the day...I like a guy or I don't like a guy. What I refuse to do is let someone else's opinion sway mine. That will always be the case.
point is Sy provides original, in-depth commentary on draft prospects, which is valuable for its perspective. The fact that he may have underestimated the potential of Evans doesn't undermine that. With my untrained eye I liked Evans a lot more than Sy did, but I'm not going to say I was right based on his torching the Skins. Ramses Barden looked like Plaxico Burress against the Panthers defense a couple years ago. Evans is likely much better than that, but teams will figure out how best to play him and it'll be up to him to adjust.
Yes I certainly do keep track of where I went right and wrong. I've altered the amount of value I put in to specific elements of a position. For the most part, at the end of the day...I like a guy or I don't like a guy. What I refuse to do is let someone else's opinion sway mine. That will always be the case.
You don't know shit about scouting players and probably don't watch that much college ball. Why call out people who put the work in? Because people care about their opinion more than yours?
I'll always defer to the guys who know more than me, which is unfortunately pretty often. You don't have to do the same, but don't be salty that no one cares what you think on shit you don't know about.
That's the point. He had Evans rated as his 7th best WR, behind the likes of Corey Latimer. He had him ranked similarly to 3rd and 4th rounders. Based on some nonsense of him feasting only on broken plays. This isn't his only wrong call. Just the most wrong...until his Eli post today.
More than that, it's that he's hailed on BBI as being some all-knowing draftnik - based on nothing more than typing a whole bunch of bunk and attaching rankings to it. It's treated as gospel.
What makes this so amazing is the fact that Mike Evans got a 56 yard TD on a broken play. You're a fucking idiot who watches nothing to form an opinion.
That isn't to defend the broken plays logic, but you clearly would not have brought that up if you watched the game instead of the stat sheet.
A lot of pros were wrong about Evans too. Sy puts a shitload of effort into his analysis, at least he's willing to put his work on the line. I fail to see the point in calling out a guy who contributes positively to this board.
Obviously too early to make a call on most of these guys, but seriously... Laughable then. Laughable now. - ( New Window )
Hmmm... seems like most of his rankings are arguably correct there. So he may have missed one that we know of so far. That's a better success rate than Jerry Reese.
who is claiming Eli is essentially done (Sy) and needs to be replaced is the same guy who said Mike Evans is a 3rd round WR.
And therefore lacks credibility
So what about when he sparks outrage by saying Beatty is not at top-ten tackle and should not have been offered that contract at the beginning of last season, well before it became generally obvious that both of those things are true? Does he gain some of that credibility back?
Or is credibility reserved for those who are always right?
the best scouts have their share of misses, it's not right to crucify a guy for this.
Pretty much. Even the most lauded GMs/front offices have had some bad misses over the years. Sy has always been pretty open with the fact that he's not this all-knowing scout. If I'm not mistaken, he's even gone over past misses.
It's easy to criticize picks or rankings after the fact - especially when no one is there to nitpick and criticize your own opinions that you may or may have not shared with others. I mean everyone here will jump on Reese or mock the front office over a nondescript FA signing. When that signing turns into Stevie Brown (pre-injury) or Deon Grant, we just keep moving. But when FAs flop or get hurt, people act as if they knew all along that the signing was a bad one.
As for Sy - yes, he's had misses. But he also spoke highly of OBJ before the combines and raved about someone like Borland. I still would value his opinion over most on this board when it comes to scouting. I find his reports to be insightful and well-informed.
Quote:
Given where he was picked and where we picked no?
He's pointing out that Sy fucked up in scouting Mike Evans; not that we should've drafted Evans over Beckham Jr.
Ok...and i sorta got that. Just wondering why it deserves its own thread. This is a call out thread. Not a very viable discussion is all.
That's the point. He had Evans rated as his 7th best WR, behind the likes of Corey Latimer. He had him ranked similarly to 3rd and 4th rounders. Based on some nonsense of him feasting only on broken plays. This isn't his only wrong call. Just the most wrong...until his Eli post today.
More than that, it's that he's hailed on BBI as being some all-knowing draftnik - based on nothing more than typing a whole bunch of bunk and attaching rankings to it. It's treated as gospel.
Nothing against you MO, but this is lame.
And therefore lacks credibility.
I think the Eli thread from Sy is more lame than this one.
Before today Eli was for many reasons beyond stats having his best season as a pro or one of them.
He has a bad game and now he can't play anymore.
I would hope someone who sells themself as a amateur? scout wouldn't be so short-sighted or reactionary, it causes you to question many of his other opinions.
I have been asked by Eric to help contribute to the draft section of the website, that is all. Repeatedly I say that I do not hold myself higher than anyone else, nor will I ever. Not sure where the bitter-ness began...but if I ever did anything to offend you, I can be sure that it was not intentional.
As for Evans...I did not think he was elite coming out. I thought he could have been a Burress/Vincent Jackson type guy if he was put in to the right system. You are wrong about where I had him graded....I believe he finished with a 78...which is a 2nd round grade. And I think he ended up #34 overall on my board. So by no means (at all) did I think he was a bad player.
Lastly...if you are going to spend time looking for all my misses, go for it. I'll even help you out with a few, so don't be afraid to ask. But if you want to spend that precious time doing so...or criticizing the OPINIONS of others...how about you give some credit where it's due? Give it a shot...it may make you a happier person because what you do is actually pathetic. People like my draft reports? So what...does it actually keep you up at night? You act like it does. Get a grip man and realize what you are doing here. I know PRO SCOUTS that work for PRO TEAMS that didn't like Evans. It is an opinion.
If you want to make call out threads...you have far better examples at your disposal than Evans. Again if you want some help with those, I'll be more than happy to share.
And therefore lacks credibility.
I think the Eli thread from Sy is more lame than this one.
Before today Eli was for many reasons beyond stats having his best season as a pro or one of them.
He has a bad game and now he can't play anymore.
I would hope someone who sells themself as a amateur? scout wouldn't be so short-sighted or reactionary, it causes you to question many of his other opinions.
Keep the false stuff out of the discussion please....esepcially if you want to attach my name it. I had Evans as a 2nd round player...a few spots out of round 1.
Sy knows college football and the NFL draft. He has his opinions and many on BBI often disagree with him. Nobody here thinks he's all knowing and I don't think he comes off to the readers of BBI this way.
You choose to cherry pick a player after half a season and call him out? You're a douchebag. Plain and simple.
You assigned similar grades to OL prospects whom you projected to go on day 3. Regardless, you projected him as the 7th best WR and the 34th best player overall. Fine. The guy ended up being a top 10 pick and is have a stellar season. Perhaps those PRO SCOUTS you're intimate with didn't know what they were watching either. Guy is a beast.
You assigned similar grades to OL prospects whom you projected to go on day 3. Regardless, you projected him as the 7th best WR and the 34th best player overall. Fine. The guy ended up being a top 10 pick and is have a stellar season. Perhaps those PRO SCOUTS you're intimate with didn't know what they were watching either. Guy is a beast.
You are acting like a pathetic loser. There isn't a scout in the world (the best every or a lowly amateur like me) that hits on even 75% of his grades. It's fun and interesting to discuss though...and see where you were right and wrong. Don't take it for more than what it's worth...which is just discussion.
Which is worse? The fact that I had him #7 overall at WR (in arguably the best WR class ever) or that you are making such a concrete statement 11 games in to his career?
Sy knows college football and the NFL draft. He has his opinions and many on BBI often disagree with him. Nobody here thinks he's all knowing and I don't think he comes off to the readers of BBI this way.
You choose to cherry pick a player after half a season and call him out? You're a douchebag. Plain and simple.
No one, including Reese is perfect. And Reese takes all sorts of shit for it. Probably why an amateur scout - with no CV or perceivable aptitude for it - should probably not post lengthy and wrong dissertations on what the Giants "should have done".
But hey...maybe I'll leave BBI and never give my draft opinions again. Lets see if that is what Eric and the rest of the board wants. Or maybe you can just make the effort to not be the internet tough guy...which again is probably one of the most pathetic traits you can have here. Again you don't look savvy, you don't look smart. You just come across unhappy and agenda-based.
I for one appreciate your opinions and write-ups on draft prospects. I realize that your analysis often differs from from the parroted view of many so called experts. I'd seriously hear your honest opinions (right or wrong) rather than have you dress up consensus information and re-post.
BTW: I disagree with your Eli thread today but I forgive you. :>)
B. Guy who bitches and moans about opinions
Though choice
I disagree with the Eli thread, but no one is always right in pre-draft analysis. I do think though the people who parrot what they read (Mike Evans can't separate and will struggle in the NFL) are the worst form of life, made even worse when they argue or debate that opinion as if its fact.
and one of the pet peeves I have with the Kiper's, Mayocks, McShays, Colin@GBN etc is they make their cases with player rankings and mock drafts and they could be habitually wrong or off base yet no one holds them accountable for it, since there is no repurcussions.
Not saying Sy needs to be accountable, but he should stand by his opinions or just say he was wrong.
Evans has a good shot at becoming an elite WR. He's in a crap offense (no running game, poor OL, not many other weapons) with a crap QB and he's the first rookie WR with three straight 100 yard games with a TD in each since Randy Moss. he's on pace for over 80 catches for 1200 yards and 10 TD's. As a rookie.
I remember when everyone here convinced themselves Mario Manningham was the steal of the 2008 draft over Jordy Nelson. After all MM had the more immediate impact.
Agreed. I was off on Benjamin a lot more than I was Evans. But Benjamin didn't go for 200 yards today...so MO thought he was a better example for the day.
I disagree with the Eli thread, but no one is always right in pre-draft analysis. I do think though the people who parrot what they read (Mike Evans can't separate and will struggle in the NFL) are the worst form of life, made even worse when they argue or debate that opinion as if its fact.
and one of the pet peeves I have with the Kiper's, Mayocks, McShays, Colin@GBN etc is they make their cases with player rankings and mock drafts and they could be habitually wrong or off base yet no one holds them accountable for it, since there is no repurcussions.
Not saying Sy needs to be accountable, but he should stand by his opinions or just say he was wrong.
Evans has a good shot at becoming an elite WR. He's in a crap offense (no running game, poor OL, not many other weapons) with a crap QB and he's the first rookie WR with three straight 100 yard games with a TD in each since Randy Moss. he's on pace for over 80 catches for 1200 yards and 10 TD's. As a rookie.
the past two years I have created threads about the players I was wrong about. Keep that in mind please. I don't need to do that.
I like the fact you're willing to put your stuff out there knowing people will criticize and I for one don't get the chance to watch a ton of college ball, so it's one of the first places i look to start getting familiar with the draft.
So thanks.
I don't mind telling you when you were wrong (LOL), but I also like reading your stuff.
Meanwhile, you feel the need to call him out because Mike Evans had a good game today. Against the Redskins.
Nice job.
I like the fact you're willing to put your stuff out there knowing people will criticize and I for one don't get the chance to watch a ton of college ball, so it's one of the first places i look to start getting familiar with the draft.
So thanks.
I don't mind telling you when you were wrong (LOL), but I also like reading your stuff.
I love to discuss man. If we all agreed it wouldn't be fun...some can't comprehend that. Usually I don't give them attention but every now and then a MO type guy needs to be put in place. Sad but true.
Over the years do you learn from mistakes and hits and become better at draft scouting? Or, is every player so different that you really can't find commonalities that caused you to make a great or not so great rating?
I'm curious if this can be a science or only a crap-shoot.
Over the years do you learn from mistakes and hits and become better at draft scouting? Or, is every player so different that you really can't find commonalities that caused you to make a great or not so great rating?
I'm curious if this can be a science or only a crap-shoot.
Yes I certainly do keep track of where I went right and wrong. I've altered the amount of value I put in to specific elements of a position. For the most part, at the end of the day...I like a guy or I don't like a guy. What I refuse to do is let someone else's opinion sway mine. That will always be the case.
C'mon Sy. It's easy. Say it with me, "Mike Evans is a beast."
Who said you should be pissed?
Yes I certainly do keep track of where I went right and wrong. I've altered the amount of value I put in to specific elements of a position. For the most part, at the end of the day...I like a guy or I don't like a guy. What I refuse to do is let someone else's opinion sway mine. That will always be the case.
Thanks, Sy. Very interesting hobby.
Sure I think he's wrong about Manning, doesn't make him a bad person.
I'll always defer to the guys who know more than me, which is unfortunately pretty often. You don't have to do the same, but don't be salty that no one cares what you think on shit you don't know about.
Anyway I get everyone's emotions are different aftet a loss, and I 10000% disagree with sy's eli thread, but this thread was so petty and pointless.
Who can expect to be right all the time?
More than that, it's that he's hailed on BBI as being some all-knowing draftnik - based on nothing more than typing a whole bunch of bunk and attaching rankings to it. It's treated as gospel.
What makes this so amazing is the fact that Mike Evans got a 56 yard TD on a broken play. You're a fucking idiot who watches nothing to form an opinion.
That isn't to defend the broken plays logic, but you clearly would not have brought that up if you watched the game instead of the stat sheet.
link - ( New Window )
Every poster here as well as most draft analysts are off more than they're correct.
Hmmm... seems like most of his rankings are arguably correct there. So he may have missed one that we know of so far. That's a better success rate than Jerry Reese.
And therefore lacks credibility
So what about when he sparks outrage by saying Beatty is not at top-ten tackle and should not have been offered that contract at the beginning of last season, well before it became generally obvious that both of those things are true? Does he gain some of that credibility back?
Or is credibility reserved for those who are always right?
Pretty much. Even the most lauded GMs/front offices have had some bad misses over the years. Sy has always been pretty open with the fact that he's not this all-knowing scout. If I'm not mistaken, he's even gone over past misses.
It's easy to criticize picks or rankings after the fact - especially when no one is there to nitpick and criticize your own opinions that you may or may have not shared with others. I mean everyone here will jump on Reese or mock the front office over a nondescript FA signing. When that signing turns into Stevie Brown (pre-injury) or Deon Grant, we just keep moving. But when FAs flop or get hurt, people act as if they knew all along that the signing was a bad one.
As for Sy - yes, he's had misses. But he also spoke highly of OBJ before the combines and raved about someone like Borland. I still would value his opinion over most on this board when it comes to scouting. I find his reports to be insightful and well-informed.