Why is everybody freaking out? Most people here picked this as a loss. And why? Because this isn't a good team. They lack talent to compete. The fact that they showed up and fought until the end is a testament to Coughlin. So we knew that last week, expected it, predicted it... Now you're shocked by the result? Did anybody really think this was all going to magically turn around this week? Or are we just fueling previous agendas? Furthermore, how much do you want to bet that had we actually pulled off the win yesterday, people would be bitching about the Giants ruining draft position?
Just accept that the season is over (I did, weeks ago), and start thinking about things to improve upon next season. Which leads me to...
The likelyhood of Eli and Coughlin returning is HIGH if we're being realistic, and looking at this from the Giants standpoint. If you were a betting man, the smart money is on both of them returning. So instead of wasting all your time and energy debating whether they should be fired/cut, why not spend time on realistic fixes since it's likely that they will both be back next season?
I'm all for giving that play to Donnell or Washington.
I'm not all for running it three consecutive times to anyone.
Would still like to beat the Eagles in week 17 though
Doesn't work that way. Just ask Parcells, Landry, Shanahan, Cowher, etc, etc. It ALL comes to an end at some point.
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No. Not even shocked by the fact that they could have won and shit the bed.
What shocks me, and I seem to be the only one who has mentioned it, is that on 3rd down, in the final minutes, with the outcome still to be decided, the $20,000,00.00 man throws the ball up for grabs as he's being sacked.
WTF? Desperation at its finest. Total shitshow.
that was desperation. With no time outs, what else was he going to do? If he took the sack the game was over. Throwing an interception there would have made no difference. If it falls incomplete he gets one more play and a chance. Shows Eli had a good sense of the situation they were in.
It was the fact that he tossed the damn thing straight up in the air. Maybe he was unable to throw it any other way. I couldn't tell because he was being suffocated due to the totally ineffective O-line.
What is painfully obvious is the there is no depth on the offensive line and Eli can't make it happen. Additionally, I did not chime in on Sy'56's thread on Eli...but I think his premise that Eli is a very poor value considering his salary is true. He is not a $20 million QB....In all honesty....outside of a few seasons...he never has been.
How much do you think QBs make? Tell us how much you think he should make.
What is painfully obvious is the there is no depth on the offensive line and Eli can't make it happen. Additionally, I did not chime in on Sy'56's thread on Eli...but I think his premise that Eli is a very poor value considering his salary is true. He is not a $20 million QB....In all honesty....outside of a few seasons...he never has been.
Mike, what you consider to be value is irrelevant. Just look at Jay Cutler's contract. That's the going rate for QB's these days.
You saw Kaepernick, yesterday. Same thing. What they are worth is irrelevant. That's the going rate.
Even a draft gem like Russell Wilson, should you hit on one, is going to cost you after three years. Russell Wilson will be entering the club next year. Is he worth it? Probably not, but that's what a QB in the NFL costs these days.
Here's a hypothetical. JPP is going to be due big money next year. Do you pay him?
Will we hear the same chirping on his contract taking up salary cap space that can be used to build the team around him that we do for Eli?
If you could only keep one, which one would you keep? Eli, or JPP?
A fade to Beckham is a very good call. On 2nd down they should have isolated Beckham instead of Randle.
Somebody mentioned Burress? He sucked on the fade in PIT and with NYG. The fade is not just about a tall WR.
Peyton Mannging $19,000,000
Drew Brees $18,750,000
Eli Manning $17,000,000
Tony Romo $17,000,000
Philip Rivers $15,750,000
Jay Cutler $15,500,000
Cam Newton $14,666,666
Sam Bradford $12,985,000
Colin Kaep $12,400,000
Alex Smith $11,900,000
Ben Roethlisberger $11,600,000
Matt Ryan $11,500,000
Matthew Stafford $9,500,000
Tom Brady $7,000,000
Matt Schaub $5,500,000
The reason his cap number is high right now is because he is in the final two years of his deal, and we've been pushing the money back to this point.
As far as value in concerned...I understand what the going rate for an established QB...just like any other position. However, Is Eli Manning providing enough return to justify spending 15-20 Million per year on him? And the actually number means little until it is taken into the context of $20 million out of your total salary cap limit of $133m. Is he worth 15% of the Giants salary cap? And is worth paying one guy 15% of your cap room when the team has needs throughout the roster?
The AAV of his contract is about $16.2M. Compare him to other QBs with that AAV, like Alex Smith at $17M and below Andy Dalton.
Any figure more than that has nothing to do with him or his value and is about how the Giants' handle their accounting and chose to distribute the cap over multiple seasons.
Peyton Mannging $19,000,000
Drew Brees $18,750,000
Eli Manning $17,000,000
Tony Romo $17,000,000
Philip Rivers $15,750,000
Jay Cutler $15,500,000
Cam Newton $14,666,666
Sam Bradford $12,985,000
Colin Kaep $12,400,000
Alex Smith $11,900,000
Ben Roethlisberger $11,600,000
Matt Ryan $11,500,000
Matthew Stafford $9,500,000
Tom Brady $7,000,000
Matt Schaub $5,500,000
Based on Eli's and the teams overall performance over the past several seasons...substantially less. I also think the number above are salaries...and not actual cap hits which ultimately is the more important number.
2015 QB cap hits from Sportrac - ( New Window )
A fade to Beckham is a very good call. On 2nd down they should have isolated Beckham instead of Randle.
Somebody mentioned Burress? He sucked on the fade in PIT and with NYG. The fade is not just about a tall WR.
Somehow I remember him catching a game winning Super Bowl TD on a fade.
And height does have a lot to do with it. What Beckham is good at with a long pass does not necessarily translate on a short pass with limited room to maneuver.
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Tell us what you think Eli should make.
Peyton Mannging $19,000,000
Drew Brees $18,750,000
Eli Manning $17,000,000
Tony Romo $17,000,000
Philip Rivers $15,750,000
Jay Cutler $15,500,000
Cam Newton $14,666,666
Sam Bradford $12,985,000
Colin Kaep $12,400,000
Alex Smith $11,900,000
Ben Roethlisberger $11,600,000
Matt Ryan $11,500,000
Matthew Stafford $9,500,000
Tom Brady $7,000,000
Matt Schaub $5,500,000
Based on Eli's and the teams overall performance over the past several seasons...substantially less. I also think the number above are salaries...and not actual cap hits which ultimately is the more important number. 2015 QB cap hits from Sportrac - ( New Window )
If you want to pay Eli less say, Alex Smith...Let me save you the trouble- He will say no. And you will now have to find a QB.
I will echo Britt's question: Who do replace him with? Someone who's a super awesome QB who will play cheap?
The AAV of his contract is about $16.2M. Compare him to other QBs with that AAV, like Alex Smith at $17M and below Andy Dalton.
Any figure more than that has nothing to do with him or his value and is about how the Giants' handle their accounting and chose to distribute the cap over multiple seasons.
Eli counts $20,400,000 against the cap this year. Next year if nothing changes it will be $19,750,000. That is a big number for a team that is not a contender. At least Alex Smith and Andy Dalton are contributing to decent teams.
Eli from over the cap - ( New Window )
The Giants have decisions to make regarding the future direction of this franchise. Eli may or may not be part of the solution. They will need to affix a value to Eli...just like they do with every other player on the team and act accordingly.
Eli is the best option.
Hell, Dalton is on his last legs in Cincy.
A fade to Beckham is a very good call. On 2nd down they should have isolated Beckham instead of Randle.
Odell Beckham is listed at 5'11, and everyone knows those are always exaggerated.
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He's not 5'10". He's taller with very long arms. A huge catching radius and he's an explosive leaper. He's also proven to be able to go up and over NFL CBs. The guy knows how to high point the ball.
A fade to Beckham is a very good call. On 2nd down they should have isolated Beckham instead of Randle.
Odell Beckham is listed at 5'11, and everyone knows those are always exaggerated.
His height at the combine was a smidge over 5'11.
Eli is the best option.
My heart wants you to be right. But if you are wrong...all you have done is extend the pain a few more years down the road. The easy/comfortable decision is to extend him. Easy comfortable decisions regarding other players on the roster is one of the reasons the Giants are in this mess to begin with.
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As they should. There is no QB in this draft worth drafting, nor is there one on the roster.
Eli is the best option.
My heart wants you to be right. But if you are wrong...all you have done is extend the pain a few more years down the road. The easy/comfortable decision is to extend him. Easy comfortable decisions regarding other players on the roster is one of the reasons the Giants are in this mess to begin with.
Do you have a solution? Or are you just going to stick with "Eli isn't worth $20mil."? Do you want them to move on from him? Play Nassib?
I am simply questioning whether he is now or in the future worth the money he currently costs relative to the Salary cap. And my personal belief is that he is no longer worth what he costs relative to the teams salary cap. Eli has had a better career than 90% of his current peers could hope for. But the Giants can't pay him for what he has done...the have to pay him for what he can do moving forward. If you believe he will be a top 10 QB for the next 5 years...extend him and pay him what that going rate is. But you better be right.
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Eli Manning is not making that much money per year.
The AAV of his contract is about $16.2M. Compare him to other QBs with that AAV, like Alex Smith at $17M and below Andy Dalton.
Any figure more than that has nothing to do with him or his value and is about how the Giants' handle their accounting and chose to distribute the cap over multiple seasons.
Eli counts $20,400,000 against the cap this year. Next year if nothing changes it will be $19,750,000. That is a big number for a team that is not a contender. At least Alex Smith and Andy Dalton are contributing to decent teams. Eli from over the cap - ( New Window )
Yes, decent teams that somehow exist around them making more than Manning does because their FO have had better recent runs on talent than the Giants have.
Again: The figure you are throwing around is not Eli's salary. It's a product of the Giants' accounting decisions and how they chose to spread the cap hits out over six years. Manning is "only" a $16.2M QB -- he's sub Alex Smith at this point.