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Play calling, either throw a fade on fourth down or kick KG

Semipro Lineman : 11/17/2014 10:25 am
In my opinion, the success percentage of a fade pattern is about 33%. The Giants had already thrown three of them in a row. The odds say that they were due and should have gone for it again.

Second, if you take the points and stop the niners, then you might have about a minute left to get into field goal position to tie the game. If you believe in Eli and the defense, you got to strongly consider that option
At the time I said kick the FG  
Go Terps : 11/17/2014 10:27 am : link
Obviously I would have been wrong because they didn't get the ball back.

I had no problems with the fade calls. I'll just cut and paste what I said in another thread:

Quote:
People are pointing to the fade passes...were those same people bitching about the fade when it was resulting in the Giants having one of the best red zone offenses in the league?

Besides, do people really think Eli gets the call and says in the huddle, "jump ball to Donnell"? If they go to the LOS and have a matchup they like they're going to throw the fade every time...and they should! What are they supposed to do? Run the ball when their offensive line is being completely whipped? Given the performance of their OL it's a wonder they were able to get single coverage in the red zone...the 49ers probably could have had penetration rushing two guys.

The fades were good plays in the situation. The players (Eli on 1st down, Randle on 2nd, and Donnell on third) just didn't execute. If you want to bitch about something ask why Randle (who never high points the ball and has developed the bad habit of trying to catch that type of pass with one hand) was in over Washington (who has excelled every time he has been in that situation).
Didn't have a problem with them not kicking a FG  
jeff57 : 11/17/2014 10:29 am : link
If they didn't get the TD, Niners would have taken over inside the 5. And with their record, they needed to go for broke. The problem was with the play calling on that series.
play action on 1st down is a gimme TD but nooo  
gtt350 : 11/17/2014 10:29 am : link
.
RE: At the time I said kick the FG  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 11/17/2014 10:30 am : link
In comment 11983664 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Obviously I would have been wrong because they didn't get the ball back.

I had no problems with the fade calls. I'll just cut and paste what I said in another thread:



Quote:


People are pointing to the fade passes...were those same people bitching about the fade when it was resulting in the Giants having one of the best red zone offenses in the league?

Besides, do people really think Eli gets the call and says in the huddle, "jump ball to Donnell"? If they go to the LOS and have a matchup they like they're going to throw the fade every time...and they should! What are they supposed to do? Run the ball when their offensive line is being completely whipped? Given the performance of their OL it's a wonder they were able to get single coverage in the red zone...the 49ers probably could have had penetration rushing two guys.

The fades were good plays in the situation. The players (Eli on 1st down, Randle on 2nd, and Donnell on third) just didn't execute. If you want to bitch about something ask why Randle (who never high points the ball and has developed the bad habit of trying to catch that type of pass with one hand) was in over Washington (who has excelled every time he has been in that situation).



I was just thinking your last point - if you're going to bitch about anything, bitch about throwing the fade to Randle, who never wins that kind of battle for the ball.
In that situation, you throw a fade once  
djl8699 : 11/17/2014 10:39 am : link
maybe even twice. The fact that they ran it 3 straight times, and I called out the one that was going to Donnell before the play began, shows how unimaginative they were with the playcalling. The fade is much easier to defend if you know it's coming. Hindsight is 20/20 but ideally they could have tried the fade on 1st down, spread the defense out on 2nd and tried a run, and if they still hadn't scored by then, call playaction, knowing you're still going to go for it on 4th down.
The rationale  
Josh in the City : 11/17/2014 10:40 am : link
and reasoning here is just...no...just no.
Every defense in the league...  
silverfox : 11/17/2014 10:41 am : link
...knows its coming because we can't run the ball, so play action has no effect. Forget QB sneaks or the run-option with quick sand boy.

The fade has a low percentage success rate because everything has to be perfect...the throw, the timing of the jump, feet in bounds, single coverage, while all along the entire defense is ready.

Considering this team, the idea of having to be "perfect" is about as low percentage as it gets.
Under no circumstances do you kick a FG there.  
NYGmen58 : 11/17/2014 10:44 am : link
NONE.
RE: play action on 1st down is a gimme TD but nooo  
Victor in CT : 11/17/2014 10:46 am : link
In comment 11983671 gtt350 said:
Quote:
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Only if the D has to respect the running game.
What would the geniuses here run instead of the fade?  
Go Terps : 11/17/2014 10:46 am : link
You do realize that the 49ers are taking away the middle of the field and basically daring Eli and the receivers to exploit the outside, right?

Again, it's not like the call from McAdoo is "fade route". Eli and the receivers go to the LOS with plenty of time to look at the defense and assess their options. Had the outside been taken away I am sure the ball would not have gone there. But clearly the Giant players made the correct assessment each time, because each time they had a guy isolated one on one...a situation EVERY COACH IN THE LEAGUE WOULD GLADLY ACCEPT.

The players couldn't make the play. That's on them.
I was at the game  
robbieballs2003 : 11/17/2014 11:09 am : link
Two things I didn't like. One, I didn't like the matchups. You had OBJ to the short side of the field where you can really only run a fade or maybe a back shoulder throw. I hated the fade to Randle. Not until the third attempt did we split out Donnell wide. If I'm throwing a jump ball I am throwing it to either Donnell three times or Corey Washington. Two, if you are going to use Beckham then give him the field to work with and an option route. Split him to the wide side of the field so you open up the slant. The DB will be in a tough position to watch the inside and outside. That's almost a guarantee for us with a decent throw. I don't mind the call itself. I disliked the mathups.
spot on robbieballs re: putting beckham in space  
area junc : 11/17/2014 11:44 am : link
really brain-dead coaching that's become a hallmark of this staff. they had him cramped up top with another guy in the slot so he had no room to work

as lynch said on the tv broadcast - how about a slant? in lynch's estimation the slants were wide open
a smart offensive coach  
area junc : 11/17/2014 11:47 am : link
puts beckham split wide, down low, and let's him run a fade or a fake fade/slant.

if the D doubles him, someone is open on the overload to the other side.
Randle had no business being in there at that time.  
Curtis in VA : 11/17/2014 11:49 am : link
If you're going to be predictable, then be predictable and toss it to the obvious targets. Donnell and Washington are bigger than anyone else and are good in that situation. Didn't understand why Randle - who has been the epitome of inconsistent - was in there.

Must've been trickery!
I've never been a huge fan of fade patterns  
Enzo : 11/17/2014 11:53 am : link
going back to when I feel we got "fade happy" under Fassel once Shockey was drafted. Yes, they obviously can work, especially when you throwing it up to a guy like Plax or Megatron or, to a MUCH lesser extent, Donnell. I'm not sure Randle has distinguished himself on balls in the air to trust in that spot. And Beckham, for all his talent, isn't exactly a prime target for fades either. So much can happen the longer you extend plays. Defenders fall down, commit penalties, or simply can't maintain their coverage. You give the defense a free pass on all of that every time you run a fade.
No problem going for it  
giantsfan227B : 11/17/2014 12:13 pm : link
I have a problem calling the same play time after time after time. John Lynch hit it on the head. The Giants are stubborn with that call. They have been calling it for years. I agree with the assessment it works about 33% of the time. Why not hike the ball, send Donnell inside the goal line and post up. He is huge. Or scramble moving the pocket. That series to me showed lack of creativity from McAdoo. As OC he needs to tell Manning to call something else. There is no way they audibled into that play twice. That was called. I would have rather seen Beckham do an end around with his speed and agility then that stupid play.
in regards to Randle...  
BillKo : 11/17/2014 1:16 pm : link
again the problem is he waits for the ball to get to him, rather than jumping up to grab it. Randle requires the throw to be perfect.

See Donnell, who actually tried to out leap the defender and nearly came down with it.

Anway...I would have like to see the Eli under center at least once and maybe hand it off, or even play action. I know they were stopping the run, but San Fran still needs to respect the run down that close IMO. Their run responsiblities are first.
in support of the calls...  
BillKo : 11/17/2014 1:23 pm : link
and not that I agree, but the fade has been one of Eli's best throws this season. He's really been hitting those.

Missing the first 3  
KWALL : 11/17/2014 2:20 pm : link
does not improve any odds on a 4th attempt.

What they should have done is isolate Beckham in place of Randle on 2nd down. And then again on 3rd down. And then again on 4th down.

Since we can't block and run the ball, Beckham is our best shot in that situation if you can get him isolated.
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