I know that we've bounced around all the problems with the Giants. We want to bash TC, Reese, Eli, McAdoo, Fewell, etc. The reality is, this Giants team has been on a steady decline since 2010 and what throws everything off was 2011 was a fluke (a great fluke, but a fluke) and we should realize that this team has been a reluctant rebuild for a number of reasons and right now the sooner everyone understands that what is wrong with this team cannot be fixed in one season, the sooner you can move forward. The Giants are not a good team and the coaching staff doesn't have much to work with. Two time Super Bowl winning coaches don't get stupid. Does the message get stale? Sure, but the game hasn't passed Coughlin bye in 3 years. So how did this happen?
Draft- Go back to 2010 and look at the picks the Giants have made and tell me where the impact players are. A combination of misses and bad luck have depleted the talent on this roster.
2010- Still here- JPP. Left of other teams- Lindval Joseph. Out of the NFL- Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, Matt Dodge. Freak injury- Chad Jones- never played.
2011- Still here- Prince (Injured), Jernigan (Injured), Brewer (never active), Jacquan Williams (Starter, now injured). Left for other teams- Marvin Austin. Out of NFL- Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Da'rel Scott.
2012- Still here- Randle (starter, but inconsistent), Hosley (depth at best, suspended), Adrien Robinson (has not progressed, passed by Donnell and Fells), Mosley (rarely active, benched behind some horrible players). Left for other teams- McCants. Out of NFL- David Wilson- First round pick lost to neck injury.
2013- Still here- Pugh (starter at right tackle, good as a rookie, bad 2nd year..could be due to injuries), Hankins (starting at DT, one of the few bright spots, but still Giants getting gouged on running game), Moore (getting more playing time, but can't unseat Kiwi), Nassib (backup QB), Cooper Taylor (Injured), Herman (bench/taxi squad), Cox (Injured)
Bottom line, the Giants had terrible drafts and terrible luck. This draft class actually has some good promise, much more than we have seen in the past. I think the Giants took a step back and passed on the big bang guys and went for more solid players. While they hit on a guy like JPP (at least for a while), they busted on guys like Austin and Robinson.
So without an infusion of talent behind the aging core of the 2007 championship team, the Giants have been degrading. The issue is, the 2011 championship clouded the Giants judgement on some of their starters when they should have probably recognized they got lucky. The Giants should have taken a step back after the late collapse in 2012 and understood what was going on. If you recall, the Giants got blown out by Baltimore and Atlanta, which opened the door for Washington to win the NFC East. Coughlin stated after that season that he wants to know what happened in those games which sunk the season. The Giants were playing well until they hit a wall, right around the time Sandy hit. After that point, the Giants team lost something. A combination of edge, desire, and also talent. The blowouts became more frequent.
So what did the Giants do in 2013? They were jaded by the Super Bowl in MetLife. Rather than look to rebuild on the offensive and defensive lines, they tried to squeeze one more title out of a group, which they really already squeezed it out of in 2011. They went for retreads like Aaron Ross and Terrell Thomas. They kept name players around a year too long in Webster, Diehl, Snee, and even Tuck (he padded his sack stats vs. the Redskins). Reese put up a Super Bowl clock in the locker room and they went 0-6 to start off...and the blowouts piled up again. They went 7-9 thanks mainly to playing a string of bad QBs and to TC's credit, keeping the team focused and not quitting.
This year, the Giants have started the correct process of rebuilding. They moved on these older guys, they have had a good draft in 2014. But they need to continue to rebuild the offensive line and will need to do so with the defensive line. The Giants need to continue to infuse talent. In a positive, the Giants have pieces to work with. Beckham and Donnell to begin with. I think Williams can contribute more as well. Richburg looks like a keeper. I have to think Pugh has been hurt worse than we know. On defense, there is more work to do. Hankins looks like a keeper. So does Kinnard. You hope Prince can come back with DRC. Rolle is big $$ and a year older. So in all, the defense will likely need an overhaul..so much so that you would like to see more time from Moore to know if the Giants have a guy they can work with next year.
So where does this leave Coughlin? Well, this is where his age now plays a factor. I think the offense will need a couple more offensive lineman (either via draft or free agency) and I think it will end up clicking quickly. The defense is a near total rebuild. The Giants best hope is to become a playoff contender next year and from there try to get one more championship run from Eli in 2 years. The Giants need to look at the big picture. I have been watching the Finding Giants scouting show, and there are times when the scout looks at tape, sees a productive guy, and then notes how he doesn't fit the scheme, either size wise or system. If the Giants are looking to build for the next 2-3 years to be in position for one final run with Eli, either you are prepared to let Coughlin coach until his early 70s, or you move on from him after this season. But it starts at the scouts and the free agents. This year is gone and the 3-2 record gave us fans at least a quarter of the season to think that they can be a factor.
This is a 5-11 talent team. There is no one thing wrong, there is lots wrong, from the scouts, to the coaches, to the players. They all waited too long to restock the talent on this team and take a step back and what you see is what you get in 2014.
1 - Are the injuries in any way our fault or are we the victim of bad luck. An incredibly tough question to answer.
2 - Are the people close to Coughlin seeing any signs of decline. If you think he is still the coach he was then I'd stick with him. Alex Ferguson was a great mgr at 74.
3 - What is going on with the scouting? Who is making these decisions. What is Chris Mara's role? Do we need fresh blood? Only a run of 3 or 4 drafts like the one we just had is going to get us back contending for the playoffs.
How about the last year? Lets stick to that and review Reese and the Giants player acquisitions. They had a strong haul with FA and the draft.
The team is not far away. If the Giants match what they did this past off season with the draft and FA the team will be ready to make a run.
If they add one more WR, another OL, and a NFL caliber starting S the team will make a big jump.
Nice post Matt.
As far as the timetable going forward, I don't rule anything out. Another good draft class and a few solid FA pickups (who actually stay healthy) might have all of us singing a different tune a year from now. But as of now it's hard to argue that we're blowing the last third of Eli's career.
This offseason, the defense needs a rebuild. We have some pieces (DRC, Prince, Kennard and Hankins) to start with. If Rolle signs back at a decent price, you go out and get an impact safety or LB (or both) and either sign back JPP or spend that money on Suh and you have a workable defense (id rather spend the money on Suh to add some toughness to this weak ass defense).
Like the draft, it's been a lot of meh with only a few successes.
This offseason, the defense needs a rebuild. We have some pieces (DRC, Prince, Kennard and Hankins) to start with. If Rolle signs back at a decent price, you go out and get an impact safety or LB (or both) and either sign back JPP or spend that money on Suh and you have a workable defense (id rather spend the money on Suh to add some toughness to this weak ass defense).
I don't think Rolle comes back at a decent price. It's a tough spot for an aging safety. He is going to go wherever he can get the most money and it won't be in NY. A team that is closer to contention and needs a veteran safety will sign him. I'm 50-50 on JPP. I see the potential, but he has disappeared big time as of late. That being said, he has not increased his market value and could be brought back at a reasonable price. I don't see any team breaking the bank on him. I don't think the path to success for the Giants defense is to spend big on one bigtime FA like Suh. He's great, but you sink 90 million into him and then what? This team has too many holes. Got to find young guys who are on the rise (like the DE Jerry Hughes in Buffalo) and get them at a reasonable price for a 5 years and get the best return on your investment.
Like the draft, it's been a lot of meh with only a few successes.
Ayers is going to be here for a while. How about DRC, Martellus Bennett, and Jennings.
If they can add a few players of Jennings/Mclain level at S, LB, and OG then we have solved the biggest problem on this team.
We now have Beckham! One of the best WRs to enter the NFL in the last 10 years.
With this I see a lot of progress. Do it again this offseason and we'll be fine next year.
I kinda wonder what your thoughts are on Eli moving forward.
So your saying that the Giants would have won 10 games with a different coach this year?
He hardly played and I do not remember him being anything. The OL to me is still broken. Need better players. People talk about needing a guard. I am not a coach but from what I seen so far this year we need more quality. The line is a sieve and has no push.
Walton might have been a good vet minimum but Reese blew over $2 million on him to be a starter and he sucks.
Jerry and Brown are not worth mentioning.
This draft was the best draft for guards and tackles in a decade and we didn't draft a guard or a tackle. We needed to pick 3 OL in my opinion and got only one. Yet again we reached on another athletic project with Bromley.
At safety, Reese signs Stevie Brown to a $2.75 million contract... after missing all of 2013 with a blown out knee. WTF?!? How could that be anything close to market rate?
As for Thurmond, he's an injury prone player that we took a one year flier on. And he got injured, surprise surprise.
Ayers was a good signing, but really that's the only one that has stood out. DRC we'll see because he is playing hurt.
And that's presuming they stop leading the league in injuries.
If they can add a few players of Jennings/Mclain level at S, LB, and OG then we have solved the biggest problem on this team.
We now have Beckham! One of the best WRs to enter the NFL in the last 10 years.
With this I see a lot of progress. Do it again this offseason and we'll be fine next year.
You can understand the Walton signing to a point, even though I think Dietrich Smith would have been a better signing if only for the fact he was used to the system. We needed a center on the roster before the draft to avoid meaning we absolutely had to reach for a center early. Add the late draft and new system to the mix and it would have been a big ask for a rookie with no NFL experience to jump behind the wheel straight away. Now we paid Walton too much but he's very cuttable next year.
The defense is more of a ? mark.
Walton might have been a good vet minimum but Reese blew over $2 million on him to be a starter and he sucks.
Jerry and Brown are not worth mentioning.
This draft was the best draft for guards and tackles in a decade and we didn't draft a guard or a tackle. We needed to pick 3 OL in my opinion and got only one. Yet again we reached on another athletic project with Bromley.
At safety, Reese signs Stevie Brown to a $2.75 million contract... after missing all of 2013 with a blown out knee. WTF?!? How could that be anything close to market rate?
As for Thurmond, he's an injury prone player that we took a one year flier on. And he got injured, surprise surprise.
Ayers was a good signing, but really that's the only one that has stood out. DRC we'll see because he is playing hurt.
He made only one quality FA signing because the Oline free agency class was terrible.
WalterFootball's top 10 FA guards (I don't actually agree with the listing but it is an indication of the lack of quality available)
Travelle Wharton, G, Panthers. Age: 33.
Geoff Schwartz, G, Chiefs. Age: 28.
Kevin Boothe, G, Giants. Age: 31.
John Jerry, G, Dolphins. Age: 28
Willie Colon, G, Jets. Age: 31.
Carl Nicks, G, Buccaneers. Age: 29.
Brian Waters, G, Cowboys. Age: 37. (retired)
Zane Beadles, G, Broncos. Age: 27
Davin Joseph, G, Buccaneers. Age: 30
Jon Asamoah, G, Chiefs. Age: 26.
Top 10 FA Centers
Alex Mack, C, Browns. Age: 28 (resigned)
Evan Dietrich-Smith, C, Packers. Age: 28.
Brian De La Puente, C, Saints. Age: 29.
Roberto Garza, C/G, Bears. Age: 35. (resigned)
Dominic Raiola, C, Lions. Age: 35. (resigned)
Jonathan Goodwin, C, 49ers. Age: 35.
Joe Hawley, C, Falcons. Age: 25 (resigned)
Rich Ohrnberger, C, Chargers. Age: 28. (resigned)
Ryan Wendell, C, Patriots. Age: 28. (resigned)
Will Montgomery, C/G, Redskins. Age: 31.
Top FA Tackles
Eugene Monroe, OT, Ravens. Age: 27 (resigned)
Jordan Gross, OT, Panthers. Age: 34 (retired)
Jared Veldheer, OT, Raiders. Age: 27 (Signed with Cardinals (5 years, $35 million)
Branden Albert, OT, Chiefs. Age: 29. (Signed with Dolphins (5 years, $46 million))
Austin Howard, OT, Jets. Age: 27
Rodger Saffold, OT/G, Rams. Age: 26
Anthony Collins, OT, Bengals. Age: 28.
Michael Oher, OT, Ravens. Age: 28.
Breno Giacomini, OT, Seahawks. Age: 28.
Donald Penn, OT, Buccaneers. Age: 31.
There were some decent tackles available but with Pugh coming off a good rookie season at RT and Beatty being paid as he is, the good ones would have been a bit rich for us.
I'm not excusing Reese for letting the Oline get to this state but it wasn't really the year for a FA rebuild, the horses weren't there, they rarely are for the Oline in FA unless you get lucky.
Free agency, too, is going to be critical because it appears we will have some money to spend.
Now, do I think they can be contenders to win it all next year...probably not. But to think this team can't contend for a playoff spot in 2015 is ridiculous.
Perhaps, however, the biggest change needed is in the coaching staff.....new concepts and a new way of doing things.
I'm not excusing Reese for letting the Oline get to this state but it wasn't really the year for a FA rebuild, the horses weren't there, they rarely are for the Oline in FA unless you get lucky.
Good post, interesting. The OL market was thin, but that's all the more reason that Reese should have drafted more than one OL in the last draft. With such a rich and deep draft for OLmen in 2014, it was negligent that he only drafted Richberg.
Regardless, he should have signed a better OT than Brown considering Beatty was a health question-mark heading into training camp. Seems like Reese would rather make a silk purse out of a sow's ear than buy actual quality.
Loyalty and faulty self-examination are getting in the way of more progress, imo.
Reese & Co added several quality starters in FA. We need more? Yes, there were a lot of holes to fill but they addressed many by adding a number of quality starters. Do it again and add a few quality starters at the positions that are killing the team (S, C/OG) and we'll be fine next year.
I really like what Eli is doing this year. Give him a more help on OL and more speed at WR/RB and we'll have a strong offense.
BTW, Schwartz in preseason looked like a beast to me when pulling. Losing him was the biggest blow this year.